RP: Egyptian Magick

[Creature]

Ok, I have not written out a research report like I have on the other topics.  What I am presenting here are some of my notes: quotes from books I've read.  I have aranged them in a semi-tipical order.  At a later date I will probobly turn it into something like a research paper.

Magick General:

"The Egyptian term heka ... which we usually translate as magic has obviously nothing to do which this distinction between temple and private use.  If we start from Egyptian terminology, we get totally different notion of magic ... Heka means an allprevading coercive power -- comparable to the laws of nature in its coerciveness and allprevedingness -- by which in the begining the world was made, by which it is daily maintained and by which mankind is ruled.  Magic in the sense of  a particular discourse is much more specific.  It refers to the exertion of tis same coercive power in the personal sphere."
(Envisioning Magic, "Magick and Theology in Ancient Egypt", Assman, Jan. p. 3)

"The magic of most early nations aimed at causing the transference fo power from a supernatural being to man, whereby he was to be enabled to obtain superhuman results and to become for a time as mighty as the original possessor of the power; bu the object of Egyptian magic was to endow man with the means of compelling both friendly and hostile powers, nay, at a later time, even God Himself, to do what he wished, whether they were willing or not."
(Budge, p. ix)

The term hekau is described by Pich as "a general term for anyone who used magic", Budge, however, translates it as "words of power"
(Pinch, p.53) (Budge, p. 10)

"Hermopolis was famous as a centre of magical knowledge." (Pinch, copyright page)

A lot of magic spell scrolls contain instructions to keep them secret from the vulgar.
(Pinch, p 62-63)

Tools used in magic:

wands
amulets
staffs
masks
rope
seals
rods ending in hands to symbolise divine hand
oil

Stories:

"The command of the waters of the sea or river was claimed by the Egyptian magician long before the time of Moses, as we may see from an interesting story preserved in the Westcar Papyrus... the copy of the story which we posses is older then the period when Moses lived, and thus there can be no possibility of our seeing in it a distorted version of the miracle of the waters of the sea standing like walls, one on the right hand and one on the left;  on the other hand Moses miracle may well have some connexion w/ that of Tchatchaem-ankh [the mage of the Egyptian story]."
(Budge, pp. 7-10)

There are also stories of was figures comming to life to carry out the will of magician.
(Pinch p. 96-97)

Turning a wax figure into a living thing, illustrated by the story of a man making a wax figure of a crocodile so that it would turn into a live crocodile and drag his wife's lover under water.
(Budge, pp. 67-69)

In the tale of the conspiracy trials in Ramses III 's court, Hui, the brother of Lui, and Duie, the nephew of Donal Duck, and the overseer of the royal cattle, comes into possession of a stolen volume of a magic grimorie and with the knowledge gained from the book uses wax figures to control and cause mental and physical harm to people, including driving people insane, striking terror into them, paralising them, etc.  He does this by writing words of power on the figures.
(Budge, pp. 73-76)

Spells > General:

"[The spells found in pyramids] appear to have been arranged in an arbitrary manner, with no attempt at systematic organization; there is not evidence that measures were taken to correct contradictory statements in the different versions... The Egyptians believed that all magic was potent and, rather then excluding some elements, they tried to develop as diverse and inclusive a set of spells as possible so that this would enhance the overall efficiency of the texts and acheive the desired result."
(David, p. 93)

"Engaging the emotions through dramatization of a myth was part of the process by which magic worked to heal, protect or, sometimes, to intimidate.  In these spells, the person to be protected or helped is identified with the protagonists of a suitable myth.  This act of identification transfers a human problem to the sphere of the gods, so that cosmic forces such as heka can be used to resolve it."
(Pinch, p. 23)

"Some spells begin with a hymn or a prayer to the deity who is asked for help, others recite a myth that bares similarities to the situation at hand."
(Pinch, p.73)

"The majority of [magic] was recorded in order to be spoken or changed aloud.  The Egyptian words that we translate as 'spells' nearly all relate to the spoken word.  One term for magic was 'the art of the mough.'  Many spells are divided into two parts: the rubric, that is instructions on whatthe magician is to do, and the script: the actual words to be spoken."
(Pinch, p. 68)

"Spells had to be distinguished from everyday speech, so they were usually chanted or sang rather then simply spoken.  The exact pronounciation of many of the words was important, particulary cryptically written words that claimed to be the secret names of the gods and demons."
(Pinch, p. 68)

"The exact hour [of when the spell is to be performed] might be chosed to fit with the mythology used in a spell, so that rites invoking forums of sun god usually took place at first light, Dawn was the most favorable time for magical operatios because it was themoment of cosmic renewal. Spells against dangers of the night were performed at dusk."
(Pinch, p. 76)

Magicain had to be pure during the performance of the right.  Abstraining from sexual intercourse prior to and during the days of the performance of the right was often a requirenment.  Woman was considered impure during her menstrual cycle.  Contact with impure substances, such as blood, people and animals was not allowed during and few days prior to the right. (Pinch, pp. 76-77)
"The aim of all these preparatios was to demarcate a sacred zone, both in a physical area and in the body of the officiant.  Whithin the zone, chronological time had no meaning.  The officiant could return to the First Time and tap the energies of creation."
(Pinch, p. 77)

Spells > written word:

"It was believed that Hieroglyphs could be used to bring concepts or events into existance, through the agency of magic."
(David, p. 27)

"In the hieroglyphic script, the power of the image and the power of the word are almost inseperable."
(Pinch, p. 69)

Spells > techniques:

A common magical procedure was to dissolve the ink that the spell was written in in water or beer and drink it, thus absorbing the heka contained therein. Othertimes the words of the spell were written down on the skin or a piece of paper that is worn by the subject of the spell.
(Pinch, p. 70)

Divine figures were drawn on the skin in the process of preporation for evocation.

"To combat enemies of this kind [demons who are emissaries of the Gods], a magician often invoked extraordinary composite forms of deities.  These are portrayed as fantastic beings who have numerous different heads and are accomponied by various symbols of power... It is unlikely that the priests of Heliopolis thought of their gods as looking anything like this.  The illustration unites in one image all the aspects of creative divine power which could be used in defensive magic.  These complex beings, sometimes known as 'pantheistic' deities, can combine the qualities and attributes of many different gods."
(Pinch, p. 36)

Clay or wax figurines (sometimes containing human hair) were often used to curse a person or make them love the magician.
(Pinch, p. 90)

'Execration texts' -- tablets, sometimes shaped like a person or a clay pot with writings on them whos purpose was to curse that person or people.
(Pinch, p. 93)
The execration texts where ofthen smashed or worn on the sole of shoes in order to activate the spell.

'The Book of Overthrowing Apep' contains directions to make a figure of Apep, either out of wax or draw it with green ink upon papyrus, write the name of Apep on it and burn it.  The directions state to do this at dawn, mid-day, at "eventide when Ra setteth in the land of life", and towads evening.
(Budge, p. 81)

Spells > techniques > Fight like with like:

"One of the basic principles of Egyptian magic was that like should be fought with like.  When something dangerous and chaotic had to be overcome, a being who possessed those qualities needed to be enlisted on your side."
(Pinch, p. 32)

"If the poison goddess can be persuaided to show her benevolent aspect, her power can be used against scorpion bites on the princible of fighting like with like."
(Pinch, p. 37)

"In real life, jackals and wild dogs were prone to dig bodies out of shallow graves and eat them.  Making Anubis the guardian of the cemeteries and the god of embalming is another example of the way in which the Egyptians treid to turn a negative force into a positive one."
(Pinch, p. 39)

A lot of fierce deities and even demons were used in amulets to provide protection or scare away hostile forces.

"Even though Sekhmet was considered a bringer of plague and disease, her priests often specialized in medicine."
(Pinch, p. 53)

Amulets:

sa and mkt -- protective amulets.
wedja -- both protective amulet and one that bestows desirable qualities.
(Pinch, p. 105)

Color was one of the most important traits of a material chosed for the amulet.
(David, p. 176)

"Amulets can be natural or manmade objects.  The power of a natural amulet might derive from its shape, its material, its color, its scarcity or any combination of these properties.  Heka was thought to reside in rare or strange objects."
(Pinch, p. 107)

"[The amulets] thus became possessed of a twofold power, that is to say, the power which was thought to be inherent in the substance of which the amulet was made, and that which lay in the words inscribed upon it."
(Budge, p. 27)
"... the substance of the amulet and the words which were inscribed upon it possessed magical powers, but we may learn from several instances given in the papyri that written words alone were sufficient in some cases to produce remarkable effects."
(Budge, p. 124)

A popular symbol used in amulets is djed pillar, associated with death and resurrection of Osirus. A scarab was also symbolic of death and rebirth.
(David, p. 175)

Heart amulet meant to keep the person's (deceased or alive) heart safe:
Heart was considered the seat of ingeligence, goal, and evil thoughts.  One must keep the heart safe and make it obey him/her.
"'He hath gotten power over his own members.  His heart obeyeth him, he is thelord of thereof, it is in his body, and it shall never fall away therefrom.  I, Osiris, victorius in peace, and triumphant in the beautiful Amenta and on the mountain of eternity, I bid thee [O heart] to be obedient onto me in the underworld.'"
(Budge, p. 32)

"In the public areas of temple precincts, stone cippi were set up, to defeat scorpions, crocodiles and serpents, and to provide a means of curing those who had suffered from their bites or venom.  A cippus (pl cippi) is a statue-stela on which the figure of Horus is represented in three dimensions, and is inscribed with the appropriate spells against bite and venom.  Some cippi wre also placed in houses and graves."
(David, p. 313)

"Other amulets of a more personal nature were intended to help their individual owners to overcome particular problems.  Some of these resembling a limb or a body part, were designed either to attract powerful magical forces to cure the weakness or disability in the owners body, or to provide a 'double' to which the pysical defect could be transfered so that the owner's body could be restored."
(David, pp. 175-6)

Examples of amulets:

Wedjat eye (Eye of Heru)
Vulture - power of Isis, divine mother.
ankh
written amulet in a cyllindrical case
(Budge and Pinch)

Gods of magic and medicine

Medicine:

Sekhmet (patron deity of doctors)
Thoth
Isis
Amun and Horus (who presided over eye diseases)
Tauert
Imhotep (who was deified as a god of medicine)
(David, p. 287)

Heka - god of magic
Weret Hekau - goddess of magic
(Pinch, p. 101)
Thoth

Bibliography

Budge, Wallis, Egyptian Magic, The Citadel Press, secaucus, N.J. 1978
David, Rosalie, Religion and Magic in Ancient Egypt, Penguin Books, 2002.
Pinch, Geraldine. Magick in Ancient Egypt, British Museum Press
Envisioning Magic: A Princeton Seminar and Simposium edited by Schafer, Peter and Kippenberg, Hans. Brill, Leiden, New York, Koln: 1997

[solstice]

You have been busy

[NathanE]

Also they made little ships of there enimies and sunk them in different ways to cause ill happenings to there enimies ships :-p Atleast I learned something in mythology class.

[Camer222]

Great article. Sorry i couldn't help I have soooo much work to do and barley have time to sleep .Very informative though

[Creature]

Thanks, guys   I can't really call that an article. It's just a bunch of notes I took.  I WILL be turning it into an article, though.  Hopefully this week.

[Australian Warriors]

Introduction
And History

Egyptian Magic can be traced back into the past till 200 B.C – 500 A.D, as so told in the magical papyri. The Egyptians told of how every natural and supernatural occurrence was to do with many various deities. The flood of the rivers, the changes in the desert, the plagues of locusts, the weather phenomena, the moving sun over the sky, all such things.
Egyptian civilizations had been around for over 3000 years, and over these years more and more gods and goddess were raised into importance. The Afterlife in their beliefs told of if one respected the gods and goddesses he chose to worship, then he would be judged by them once he died. In the beginnings of Egypt began, men worshipped nature and the changes around them, but as towns grew around the civilization, a god was worshipped by each. These beings supposedly dwelled in the celestial fields or “heaven”, which a pharaoh or worshipper would go if worthy.
Many Animals had magical and godly power and commanded respect, and a man you committed an offence against such would be punished by death.
Cats, Beetles, Jackals, Cows, Frogs, Hippos, Male Goats, Ibis,  Serpents, Crocodiles and Birds were seen as highly powerful animals with magical and spiritual depth, and were as highly respected as kings and pharaohs.

Quotes And References from the BOD:
The Book Of Dead contains spells and hymns to the gods which was written in mid-fifteenth century, but some contain written almost 2000 years before that.

The Chapter Of Coming Forth By Day And Of Opening Up A Way Through The Amehet:

Behold, the scribe Nebseni, whose word is truth, saith:- Homage to you, O ye Lords of Kau, ye who are without sin, and who live for the endless and infinite aeons of time which make up eternity. I have opened up a way for myself to you. I have become a spirit in my forms, I have gotten the mastery over my words of magical power, and I am adjudged a spirit; therefore deliver ye me from the Crocodile [which liveth in] this Country of Truth. Grant ye to me my mouth that I may speak therewith, and cause ye that sepulchral offerings shall be made unto me in your presence, for I know you, and I know your names, and I know also the name of the mighty god before whose face ye set your celestial food. His name is "Tekem." [When] he openeth up his path on the eastern horizon of heaven, [when] he alighteth towards the western horizon of heaven, may he carry me along with him, and may I be safe and sound. Let not the Mesqet make an end of me, let not the Fiend (Sebau) gain the mastery over me, let me not be driven away from the doors of the Other World, let not you doors be shut in my face, for my cakes are in the city of Pe, and my ale is in the city of Tep. And there, in the celestial mansions of heaven which my divine father Tem hath stablished, let my hands lay hold upon the wheat and the barley, which shall be given unto me therein in abundant measure, and may the son of my own body make ready for me my food therein. And grant ye unto me when I am there sepulchral meals, and incense, and unguents, and all the pure and beautiful things whereon the god liveth, in every deed for ever, in all the transformations which it pleaseth me [to perform], and grant unto me the power to float down and to sail up the stream in the Field of Reeds (Sekhet-Aaru), [and may I reach Sekhet-hetepet (the Field of Offerings)]. I am the twin Lion-gods (Shu and Tefnut).

The Chapter Of Not Being Boiled In Fire

Nu saith:- I am the paddle which is equipped, wherewith Ra transported the Aged Gods, which raised up the emissions of Osiris from the Lake of blazing fire, and he was not burned. I sit down like the Light-god, and like Khnemu, the Governor of lions. Come, cut away the fetters from him that passeth by the side of this path, and let me come forth therefrom.

This Chapter to me signifies turning away from evil and hell with the light of the gods, cut away the fetters, which means to me that all things be removed that will stop you from reaching gods.
The Chapter Of Not Going In To The Block Of The God

The Osiris Ani saith:- My head was fastened on my body in heaven, O Guardian of the Earth, by Ra. [This] was granted [to me] on the day of my being stablished, when I rose up out of a state of weakness upon [my] two feet. On the day of cutting off the hair Set and the Company of the Gods fastened my head to my neck, and it became as firm as it was originally. Let nothing happen to shake it off again! Make ye me safe from the murderer of my father. I have tied together the Two Earths. Nut hath fastened together the vertebrae of my neck, and behold them as they were originally, and they are seen in the order wherein they were when as yet Maat was not seen, and when the gods were not born in visible forms. I am Penti. I am the heir of the great gods, I the Osiris the scribe Ani, whose word is truth
 

This quote is a prayer of hymn to the gods of Ra And Qsiris, and the power of truth, protection from temptations and murders, the connection to the earth.





Some Deities of Egyptian Magic

Isis: Isis was known as the goddess of magic. She was for the women, children, healing illnesses and kindness.  Her power and beauty is still worshipped in modern Egypt, and is somewhat more revered than Ra.

Qsiris: Husband to Isis, Qsiris is just as, maybe more, respected and worshipped as Isis. He is more powerful and Wise. The most worshipped god to for guidance in fertility and pregnancy, and the care of children.

Ra: The Ultimate and Powerful God of all Egyptian Deities. Ra was the overlooker of all, and the god of the sun.

Hanubis, Thoth, Sahu: The god of three of the afterlife who decided if a soul should go to heaven or be devoured.
Death And The Afterlife:
I am sure you all know about the process of mummification, so I will not describe the ritual used in such. Once in the afterlife, the soul would be tested by various dangers.
If overcome, the soul would then arrive in the hall of two truths, which would weigh the heart for presence of good and evil with the feather of truth which found all the sins and good deeds.3 gods would then decide on whether the person should go to heaven or be eaten by a monster and be gone forever.
Tools Used
The Egyptians seemed to use various items that held specific protection or healing purposes. From precious, valuable stones such as gold, to letters and numbers, all these were relevant to the Egyptians. I will briefly describe each:

Gold And Other Valuables: Believed to belong to the gods and goddesses, their skin, and silver was their hair. The Egyptians believed that if they owned and wore precious belongings, then the gods would favor them.

Basic Amulets: The Egyptians would construct an amulet from material, which, according to them, would protect them from all kinds of trouble, misfortunes, accidents and evil. In my beliefs this would be the most effective tool for them to use.

Wooden Afterlife Body And Letters To The Dead:
Models of bodies made from wood were used as substitutes and were treated like royalty for the gods to see if they were good to others in their life or if the person was bad, the body was made out of waxen. Letters written by relatives accompanied the deceased so that they may read it and help their loved ones in the afterlife.

Lamps and Oils:
These were associated with the gods and their divine light that they bring, which removes darkness and evil. It was used to define good overcoming evil.
References

Egyptian Books of Dead
A Mystical Approach to Egypt
Internet browsing
Egyptian Theories And History

[Creature]

Very nice, AW!

[Sekhmet]

Here's what I have so far.

Egyptian magic article

                 Egyptians believed first and foremost in the mummification of the dead to preserve bodily integrity that would promote their existence in the afterlife. Most of life was spent preparing for death. On their tombs, they drew images of the dearly departed. To the ancient Egyptians, magick was a healing force that bound spirit and matter together allowing for life to be transcended in the mind. The Coffin Texts (Middle Kingdom) and the Pyramid Texts have been recovered by archaeologists, which consists of magical funerary spells and the Pyramid Text's depiction of the Egyptian view of the afterlife (Old Kingdom). Life had to be provided for in every detail. Egyptian magick focused on providing for the afterlife in ancient times although in the past it got into worshipping ancient Egyptian gods, use of gold and precious stones, knots and numbers, as well as substitute bodies, letters to the dead, even a lamp used to divine good or evil forces. Belief systems included that of the sacred magic name such as Osiris’ real name when Isis learned it.
      Egyptian gods have the body of a human and the head of an animal such as Sekhmet as a woman with the head of a lioness. Deities were seen as having the force to make the world, or making the world. Some Egyptian gods covered in this article are Sekhmet and Isis. Magic was a way of uniting with nature. The Great Pyramids came from Southern Egypt by boat. Magic was used to prolong life after death, enhance living, and in general make life worth living in terms of self-preservation. Unfortunately for modern scientific thought, much of ancient Egyptian magic thrived off of superstitious belief systems that included certain sicknesses and diseases being cured by “certain medicaments pure and simple, but that others needed not only drugs but the recital of words of power to effect their cure. There is good reason for thinking that some diseases were attributed to the action of evil spirits or demons,” (Budge 206). As far as nature religions go, Egyptians had themselves attuned to the needs of science as well as spirituality. Egyptian priests could read ancient texts, ponder the ancient mysteries, and in general were philosopher-doctors. They were seen as guardians of a secret knowledge.
               A man’s fate or destiny in ancient Egypt was decided before he was born (Butler 222), Egyptians having put much faith in astrology. At times, to modern Egyptian magical practitioners, this may seem trite. Magical protection rituals were performed to protect the king. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/magic_01.shtml), while philosophically the fates had already been the ones to determine the outcome of anybody’s life. Ghosts or deities could cause either good or bad in a person’s life. Modern Egyptian magic is different from that of ancient Egyptian magic only because the Gods are being resurrected and re-worshiped as well as re-discovered. Isis for example, is the Goddess of fertility, wifehood and motherhood. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis#Associations), since her name means she of the throne. The sick also went to her as well as Sekhmet. Amulets were the biggest source of power, obtained by either male or female creators.



      WORKS CITED

Budge, E.A. Wallis. Egyptian Magic. Ebook, 1901. http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ema/index.htm.
http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptafterlife.html

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/Emagick.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/magic_01.shtml

http://www.idolhands.com/egypt/heka/

[Creature]

Cool stuff.  Do you guys think you might use some of the AE mjk techniques in your own practice?

I'm certainly going to try the fight like w/ like theory
Also, drinking the ink of a written spell seems like a nice symbolic gesture (got to make sure ink is non-toxic).

One, for example, may make a sigil for health or prosparity, and then after charging it, instead of burning it or destroying it in other ways, dissolve the ink in water and drink it.

Also, Execration texts could be used to get rid of something like a desiese or a bad habit.

[Sekhmet]

Cool stuff.  Do you guys think you might use some of the AE mjk techniques in your own practice?

I'm certainly going to try the fight like w/ like theory
Also, drinking the ink of a written spell seems like a nice symbolic gesture (got to make sure ink is non-toxic).

One, for example, may make a sigil for health or prosparity, and then after charging it, instead of burning it or destroying it in other ways, dissolve the ink in water and drink it.

Also, Execration texts could be used to get rid of something like a desiese or a bad habit.

All I have to say is 1) using sigil
2) so much to learn, so little time in life to learn it! I want to learn about spiritualism and magic and.. and and!!!!!

[Bladesmith]

First, allow me to apologize for the severe delay in this post's arrival. I had to reformat my laptop after I screwed up a Linux install >:(o) and sort of froze it somewhere between windows (winblowz) and Suse. Now, I have arrived at my college, and am back online (I had to recreate this from notes.)!
  The following is intended to be an overview of use of magic in ancient Egypt:

1. Definition of magic
  In ancient Egypt, the word magic (called "heka") seems to bear a more general definition than in modern hermetics. We (no offense to those of you who study a different approach) divide magic into five parts (the elements), whereas the use of heka appears to me to involve a singular force adapted to suit a given purpose.

2. Practitioners of magic
  There was no stigma attached to any practitioner of magic, other than social status, unless you were a foreigner.
  The priests held the highest status, having access to the libraries and  actually being able to read the books there. They were gradually replaced by magicians, though. (I am unclear on the distinction in this context.)
  There were also beast charmer types who would act as a modern pest control service, and nearly anyone in any remotely medical profession employed heka to some degree.

3. Methods and tools
  A practitioner would gennerally bathe and wear clean clothes (symbolic of purity?) before employing heka.
  Wands were generally used in summoning, and were symbols of control and authority (sigils?) over summoned beings.
  Spells generally consisted of a trigger word or phrase, some gesturing, and maybe even music. It seems the Egyptian magical system was very ritualistic in nature.

4. Categories of magic
   A. Healing magic was not intended to replace medicine, but to complement   it (See "Practitioners of magic"). Sometimes, the doctor and patient would act out a sort of play, in which the doctor would take on himself the name of a character from a myth in which some great act of healing took place, and the patient would be, well, ...the patient.
 
   B. Curses were not employed as often as other types of magic, but destructive magic still had it's uses. Some item, whether an inscribed piece of papyrus, a "voodoo doll", a painted image, etc. would be carefully made, and then destroyed in any one of a number of ritualistic manners.
 
   C. Protection seems to have primarily taken the form of amulets or wands. Various kinds of animals or deities were either inscribed into the amulet, or the amulet would be made into the shape of one of them. Some of these were for protection, others for things such as health, memory, etc..
  Wands were used to draw protective circles (perhaps other symbols as well) around some area the magician/priest/midwife/doctor wished to ward against evil influence.

5. Magic in the afterlife
  When an Egyptian died, he or she would need heka to ward off grave-robbers, and to assist their soul in the journey through the underworld. The wealthier Egyptians had amulets on their mummies underneath their burial wrappings, and curses were placed on the walls of the tomb.
  They also believed they would need certain gestures and words to pass by or defeat the demons of the underworld. Assuming they made it through all this, they were changed into an "akh" (transfigured spirit) and were given the power of "akhw" (superior magic) to aid their living relatives.
 
---The Bladesmith---

[Creature]

Good stuff, Bladesmith! Thank you very much for posting it. Don't worry about lateness, I still need to turn my notes into something more presentable.  Will do that later.

Would you mind posting your sources?

Thanks

[`Nazukarr]

Oooh, good stuff. I'm definitely going to do the next one.

Buttt, I think the History of Magick should get its own sub-board or something. I mean, you guys are submitting a whole bunch of cool, informational articles.

[Creature]

Well, lets get more stuff posted, let the project grow more (hint: invite more people to join project), and then we'll see about if this merits a seperate board.

If that does happen, I doubt we'll have a board created here. Because

1) Creature seems to be the primary organiser for this project, and she is not very popular w/ the powers that be (the Veritas "Elite"). Ya know, being a trouble-maker, refusing to do the kiss butt and all. ^_^
and

2) None of the Veritas Elite are involved w/ the project.

That might be an obstacle in having a seperate forum at Veritas. HOWEVER! If we really want a seperate forum devoted to this topic, we can create or own, seperate from Veritas.  Especially since I'm thinking of going 'round other online comminities and seeing if we can get more members that way.

We'll see how this goes.  Too early to tell at this point.

[kobok]

Well, lets get more stuff posted, let the project grow more (hint: invite more people to join project), and then we'll see about if this merits a seperate board.

If that does happen, I doubt we'll have a board created here.

If the project takes off such that you guys need a subforum, then the project will get a subforum.    All it needs is an activity level such that it seems sensible to make a subforum, or some organizational requirement that makes a subforum seem wise (like how the Library Team, although small, needed a private forum to handle all the copyright issues).