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Author Topic: Rant about Debates  (Read 3999 times)

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August 22, 2006, 03:50:21 PM
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`Nazukarr

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Rant about Debates
               `Naz's Thoughts...


Disclaimer This is a *personal* rant on how _the author_  (and possibly many other people) think arguing should be done. All statements, labels of terms, and opinions will be pulled out of the author’s ass and may, or may not be, consistent with facts, and actual terms used by professionals. The author would strongly advise against any of the readers to argue against him, for if this were to happen, the arguments would have to consult the author’s ass for backup of opinions to be legitimate. The author thinks he is better than everyone else when it comes to taking things out of his ass. If you agree to the above terms, continue to read. If not, you are free to leave this thread. The author will stop speaking in third person now. (Subject to modification)





Yes, that's right ladies and gents, that one kid Nazukarr has more problems with more people and he decides to take it out on another innocent forum. Don't worry though, its not with anyone specifically, just people in general. As you might know, I'm a generally laid back guy, I like to learn, and I love to watch debates. I say watch because most likely, people will be debating about things that I don't particularly have knowledge in, like lets say, physics. I stay out of those because I know I couldn't back up any of my claims with facts. I also tend to stay away from debating faith, because most likely, no one will reach a valid conclusion. Usually, I'm debating on more societal things, or things having to do with ethics.

But anywho, lets define debate, just for the record.


Debate or debating is a formal method of interactive and position representational argument.


Here's the problem


I'm sick of random idiots going around and pretending to be able to debate when they CANT. Not anyone in particular here, but there are people I have in mind. These annoying little pricks will sit there and either a) debate with you about something you dint want to debate about (faith) b) debate with you, then stop when you catch their stupid, or c) bring up irrelevant points, and use them as legitimate ones. Most of my problems of people debating will fall under these categories, and they are very, very annoying. ;)





Things to Avoid Doing During a Debate

1) If you're going to come up to me and debate with me about something I didn't want to talk about...

You better get the hell away, because you're going to piss me off. These are the types of people that you could classify as know-it-alls and pseudointellectuals. Consider this scenario -- I'm sitting down at my computer one day, minding my own business, and this ugly, snot-nosed kid with acne comes up to me and starts babbling about how Christianity is WRONG and EVIL and how I am WRONG for following it. Horrible situation, right? And if you're a Christian (*winks at kakkarot*) you definitely know what I'm talking about. So I tell this kid to shut the hell up, and go away. What!??!?! You have scientific points to back up what you've said? Go away. I dont care. And then he tells me that I have blind faith.

What this kid is not getting is that I don't care what he thinks of me. I am also, not in any way, obligated to debate with him about any thing, at any time. Urghhh...and he wont go away!

So what do I recommend if you're in this type of situation? Personally, I think you should beat him up, and deliver one right to the kisser. They'll teach him whose boss. On the other hand, if you're the person mentioned above, you should take my advice and stop. You are evil, and you should be chained up and then locked away in some casket so everyone thinks you're dead. Now that may sound harsh, but you have to consider this -- attempting to coerce an unconsenting person into a debate is like attempting to coerce an unconsenting person into sex. Its...err....mental rape. Don't do it.

2) If you're going to debate about something then insist on not wanting to debate after you were caught being wrong...

You should just get your head out of your ass because you're sorry. People usually do this type of thing because of one reason, and I think its appropriate that I spell it out for you: a.r.r.o.g.a.n.c.e - The state or quality of being arrogant; overbearing pride.

They do it because they don't want to ruin their 'good' appearance in front of who everyone (assuming that they have a good appearance), because then, they'd get embarrassed. Poor, stupid, dumb prick. This person will usually lose the debate (or realize he can't win/its stupid for him to debate in the first place), and then plead that they don't want to debate anymore. If they're really desperate, they'll go as far as claim that they weren't debating in the first place!

So what do you do when this happens to you? Be rude, obnoxious, and loud about it until you drive them insane. Just sit in the chat room and rub it all in their faces. Tell them that they're a failure at life and they can't ever get anywhere. If you happen to be one of those people, stop having your head stuck up your rear end, and just admit defeat. I doubt you have anything else to lose, so its worth a shot, right?

3) And if you bring up irrelevant facts to the debate to try to convince others...

You're the 40-year-old virgin. This one is a fairly complex one, and is related to the point above. It also needs to be pointed out that when I say irrelevant facts in the debate, I'm not talking about people who start babbling about anime when we're talking about politics or anything. I'm talking about people who will usually bring up some type of argument reguarding age, or status to convince people. Now, I'm the first one to admit that experience IS important when it comes to a debate, but experience doesn't necessarily come with age or status. So logically, none of those are relevent, and none of those should get in the way of your debate. People just do this to be assholes and win their discussion out the easy way.

If someone is doing this, point out that they're a dipshit, and leave. These people tend to be arrogant, so its no use dealing with them. However, if you really want to get in their skin, be obnoxious and yell, spam their email, steal their girlfriend, and spread rumors about them. Be creative!



So yeah, that stuff bothers me, and thanks for reading. Although I tried to organize it a bit, it's still a rant, and its still just my opinion. You should be nice and leave me comments and vote in the polls. kthx!

`Nazukarr
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 04:30:07 PM by Nazukarr »
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August 22, 2006, 04:33:33 PM
Reply #1

XIII

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If I may add to this...
4) If you piggyback on someone elses's credentials
If I'm debating with you, and you suddenly say "Oh, well, name1, name2, and name3 ALL agree with me" then I'm going to leave, and maybe kick you in the face. I don't GIVE a damn if other people are on your side, this does not make it RIGHT. I could say that the moon was made of pickles and lasagna, say kobok, Prophecy, Einstein, Galileo, and Tom Cruise agreed with me, and it wouldn't make it right.
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August 23, 2006, 04:10:36 AM
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Big Boss

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my biggest problem with debates is that I'm usually wrong and/or misinformed. sad eh? but anyway, on the debates that have no right or wrong answer (most ethical debates, the gray area thing...) I tend to avoid them cause a persons personal beliefs are theirs alone, and nobody should go around preaching and converting. I'd be glad to sit and be informed of someones beliefs, but when they're finished talking and I tell them the reasons that I don't agree, don't get defensive! I'm not going to slap you in the mouth. And let's not turn it into a debate anyway, a debate and casual ethical discussion are different. in a debate you're trying to convince someone (audience or debating partner) of your beliefs, but in a discussion, you are just explaining yourself and learning to understand someone different than you.

It's all arbitrary anyway.

(yay for vocabulary expansion :))
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August 23, 2006, 05:16:49 AM
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Faijer

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To be honest, the biggest problem with most people and debates is that they miss the point of a debate. It's not to win, but simply to discuss a topic in a formal setting, so that both parties may try to come to a better understanding of the subject and perhaps change existing opinions, or at the very least, widen their perspective (or narrow, as the case may be).
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August 23, 2006, 10:07:16 AM
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`Nazukarr

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To be honest, the biggest problem with most people and debates is that they miss the point of a debate. It's not to win, but simply to discuss a topic in a formal setting, so that both parties may try to come to a better understanding of the subject and perhaps change existing opinions, or at the very least, widen their perspective (or narrow, as the case may be).

While that may be true, in most settings, 'debates' have definitely turned intos something else. Every time I see one (even on TV where there IS a formal setting) people are going back and forth trying to prove everyone that their side is right.
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August 23, 2006, 10:15:54 AM
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Faijer

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Indeed, but that's what is required. If neither side were willing to assert their proposition as correct, the viewpoints would never come into conflict and all areas could not be more thoroughly explored. The problem comes in that most people are unwilling to be wrong, especially politicians :P
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August 23, 2006, 05:15:50 PM
Reply #6

Forg

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Wow you sure have some anger there *laughs*. I prefer to take the other path and instead of have at it with the person who displeases me, I ignore them. This is of course if all other attempts at a reasonable stop of ignorance or just talking fails. But this is in normal conversation with people. If someone crossed the line and got in my face, I would indeed deal with it a bit more physically.

Other than that, people can yell and scream all they want. It doesn't really concern me. People are quite entitled to their stupidity as far as i'm concerned.
Be your own light, your own refuge. Believe only that which you test for yourself. Do not accept authority merely because it comes from a great man, or is written in a sacred book, for truth is different for each man and woman." -- Buddha

August 23, 2006, 07:52:24 PM
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`Nazukarr

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Wow you sure have some anger there *laughs*. I prefer to take the other path and instead of have at it with the person who displeases me, I ignore them. This is of course if all other attempts at a reasonable stop of ignorance or just talking fails. But this is in normal conversation with people. If someone crossed the line and got in my face, I would indeed deal with it a bit more physically.

Other than that, people can yell and scream all they want. It doesn't really concern me. People are quite entitled to their stupidity as far as i'm concerned.

This is my general way to get all the steam out, lol. I think it's quite healthy ^_^.
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August 23, 2006, 09:43:39 PM
Reply #8

Forg

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Oh I certainly agree. Better in words than in fire.
Be your own light, your own refuge. Believe only that which you test for yourself. Do not accept authority merely because it comes from a great man, or is written in a sacred book, for truth is different for each man and woman." -- Buddha

September 07, 2006, 02:07:37 PM
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Good points, Naz.

One of the things I hate the most is people who will try to start a debate w/ you about every little word you say. There are a couple of those at Veritas.  You state a belief or opinion of yours, and they freaking JUMP you trying to prove you wrong.  That is bordering on rude.  If I say, "I believe so and so technique works pretty well. I tried it and had great results" then someone pops up, and instead of saying "I tried it too and it didn't work for me. I believe it was because of so and so factor." They start a "No. It doesn't work. It can't work."  I just said I tried it and it worked for me, deaf-o. Are you calling me a lier?  Did you try it yourself or are you just theorizing?  Instead of calling me a lier, or trying to convert me to your point of view, why not just share information?

A lot of times, they don't even read what you wrote properly.  They just skim-read it and interpret it in such a way as to have something to argue about.  I seriously think Veritas should have some reading comprehension classes along w/ mjk and psi ones.

It's gotten to the point where I am afraid to state my belief, because I know it will get attacked and I don't feel like debating.
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September 15, 2006, 04:39:45 PM
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I see these people all the time...in the cafeteria...

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September 17, 2006, 01:13:34 PM
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I see them OUT OF CAFETERIA! Which is really disturbing.
<Kanifer> America invented MTV. 
<Shadowarrior13> Kanifer, shut up.
<Shadowarrior13> We don't want them knowing that.

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October 04, 2006, 09:41:30 PM
Reply #12

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To be honest, the biggest problem with most people and debates is that they miss the point of a debate. It's not to win, but simply to discuss a topic in a formal setting, so that both parties may try to come to a better understanding of the subject and perhaps change existing opinions, or at the very least, widen their perspective (or narrow, as the case may be).
I agree with this entirely.  Another thing I'd like to add that annoys me is when I'm having a debate and someone starts telling me how arrogant I am and that I'm assaulting other people's beliefs.  They miss the point that the reason I conduct most of my debates is to extract the most useful information out of a subject possible and possibly arive at a useful conclusion or a higher level of understanding.  They completely disregard the idea that I might actually be trying to help the community and instead go with their first instinct and react emotionally.  People forget that this is a FORUM and a forum is supposed to be a medium for discussion and debates.  If you post on a public forum you have just opened an invitiation for criticism.

I see these people all the time...in the cafeteria...
-Razeroth
As for the cafeteria, people seem to forget that the cafeteria is a place for fun, insanity, and nonprofressionalism.  This can be evidenced by the subtitle of "Abandon all sanity ye who enter herein! In this place you can let your weirdness ranting selves take over, but remember not to let it get out of control. ".  So if you post something in the Cafeteria and I don't like it, and I feel like it, I won't hesitate to light you up.  If you want a serious professional discussion, don't create your thread in the Cafeteria.
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November 04, 2006, 03:43:43 PM
Reply #13

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ROFLMAO. good lord Naz, I agree with what you have to say.

I have had too many debates with people like all of the above you are describing.

I avoid them as much as possible. In fact, I prefer to get out of those debates by doing the following: saying "no thank you" and walking away.
Boo-ya!