Admin team

[`Nazukarr]

Omg. I think you just put me into depresion, creature. But thanks for the advice. I jus wanted to help people, but now i dont want to be an admin.

Uhhh...that put you into depression??

Anyways, not wanting to be admin is good; we have a suffieicent amount anyways . You could still help out and contribute to the community without being admin, so dont let that get your hopes down.

[TheThing]

If you want to help people you don't even neeed to have position on veritas, just the ability to string a sentance together and knowledge to spread. [mmmmmm spread]

[Creature]

Like you yourself pointed out, that doesn't mean I inherently like it.

OMG! Did Faijie just agree w/ me?  This is like monumental occurance.

But I'm not getting into a debate about it.

Faijie is not getting into debate... *faints*  Both things in one post.  This is like winning the lottery twice in a row: incredible.

A short list: Discipline. Control. Desire to develop into something better. Work and effort. Spiritual benefits (ie, no cash, no car, no food, etc). Learning more about yourself as you do things that affect others.

Moding an online forum is a rather poor medium to excersise those things.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but one should really Excersise those qualities in real life.  That's what really counts.

Besides, liking to have power is not necessarily a bad thing.  You can use power for good things and pride yourself on this. Of course there are people who just like power for the sake of power.  A lot of times it's those who have been log denied any sort of power in other areas of their life: a kid who is sick of being bossed around by his/her parents and teachers. Someone who has always been bossed around at work, etc.  A lot of times those people will seek a position of power to compensate for this, and begin taking out on others their own bad experiences.  They feel helpless and powerless in real life, so they try to make others feel the same online, if given something like a mod position.

This is very well illustrated in a novel called All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque.  There is this character who is something like a sargent or something (don't remember), basically, he's in charge of the new recruits.  Everyone hates him because if they make a sligtest mistake, he makes them pay for it in a rather sadistic way, like scrubbing the floor five times over, or like there's this one character who has a problem with his bladder and pees his bed at night. The sargent dude refuses to recognise this as a medical issue and says that it's just because he is too lasy to get up and go to the bathroom.  So he tries to teach the guy the error of his ways by finding another person with the same problem and making them sleep one above the other (you know, like those two-story beds), so that in the night the person above pees on the one below, and the next day they switch places.  Well everyone was wondering just who this guys was before the war.  He turns out to be a postal clerk.
 
Becomming a mod gives you power.  If you do not enjoy the process of excersising that power (for good or bad reasons), you probobly won't enjoy being a mod all that much. This is like second-grade logic.

I also find it funny how me stating this simple truth put you guys (who are mods here) on a deffensive.  You guys got some insecurities we should know about or something? lol ^_^

Cheers!

Creature

[kobok]

Becomming a mod gives you power.  If you do not enjoy the process of excersising that power (for good or bad reasons), you probobly won't enjoy being a mod all that much. This is like second-grade logic.

Yes, it is second-grade logic.  But we can also use higher reasoning and conclude that while it gives you power, it also gives you responsibility, the ability to maintain order, and the ability to encourage productive actions.  The last two of these are "powers" in the strictest sense of the word, but they are not done for the purpose of power.  For those who make good mods, those abilities are used for a higher purpose than power itself.

You could still help out and contribute to the community without being admin

One thing we could use from people eager to contribute is more people gathering together appropriate information for our wiki.  We have 265 pages at the moment, but there are quite a lot of different topics that could be covered, as our scope is quite broad.  Everyone who logs in on the wiki can edit pages and add new content.  (Everyone's contributions there are recorded in the page history.)

[Faijer]

OMG! Did Faijie just agree w/ me?  This is like monumental occurance.

Faijie is not getting into debate... *faints*  Both things in one post.  This is like winning the lottery twice in a row: incredible.

Your psychoanalytical skillz aren't so great, you clearly have no idea what I'm like as a person.

You can use power for good things and pride yourself on this.

It's a cliqué, but here it is: absolute power corrupts absolutely. It may take more time for some, but power given is power waiting to be abused: it just takes one slip for the person with the power and suddenly all those ethical standards they had are out the window. But of course there are always exceptions that prove the rule.

If you do not enjoy the process of excersising that power (for good or bad reasons)

I don't. Because it means things aren't how they should be. I don't like exercising the power of the mod because I prefer to use mod powers as an absolute last resort, and instead encourage people to do what they should be as myself. Faijer the person encourages people to get on-topic, Faijer the mod is asleep when that happens and is only awoken if Faijer the person reaches his last tether. The reason I accepted the position of moderator was to open that as an option, but it still remains as the last option.

To me, it's the difference between someone who likes to use the power of the mod, and someone who is simply willing to use it. The latter doesn't have to like doing it, but they do it because they know sometimes there is a need. Most of the moderator power comes not from the functions and abilities of the moderator position, but of the silent power: even if the police never arrested anybody, the knowledge of the legal powers they have reduces crime because of the potential punishment that could result. Threat over action.

[Vecna]

Anyways, not wanting to be admin is good; we have a suffieicent amount anyways .

Yes, all two of us.

Well, four then if we're being overly-picky (which one of them probably will be. But just the one...).

I just like pointing out the difference...
>_>
<_<

~Crowley

[Creature]

But we can also use higher reasoning and conclude that while it gives you power, it also gives you responsibility, the ability to maintain order, and the ability to encourage productive actions. The last two of these are "powers" in the strictest sense of the word, but they are not done for the purpose of power. For those who make good mods, those abilities are used for a higher purpose than power itself.

Thank you for restating and elaborating on the (below quoted) point  I've made in my earlier post:

Besides, liking to have power is not necessarily a bad thing. You can use power for good things and pride yourself on this. Of course there are people who just like power for the sake of power.

One thing we could use from people eager to contribute is more people gathering together appropriate information for our wiki.

Yeah. We definately need more stuff in the wiki.
*uses this as an oportunity to (yet again) plug the History of Magick Research Project, which has already contributed 2 informative pages to our wiki (Pages on Shamanism and Assyro-Babylonian mysticism). For more information on how you can help, please visit: Current project forum topic and Main project Wiki page. Thank you for your time.* </shameless promotion>
Fajie:

Your psychoanalytical skillz aren't so great, you clearly have no idea what I'm like as a person.

And your reading comprehension skeelllllzzzz seem a bit worse for wear, my dear. I would like to ask you again, as a personal favor, to please try to read what's actually written.  Pretty please? Nowhere in my post did I make a comment about what you are like as a person.  I just commented on the fact that I just saw you do something I've never seen you do before.  Which, by the way, is really good.  And Creature does commend you it.  Good job. Really.

It's a cliqué, but here it is: absolute power corrupts absolutely. It may take more time for some, but power given is power waiting to be abused: it just takes one slip for the person with the power and suddenly all those ethical standards they had are out the window. But of course there are always exceptions that prove the rule.

Now, now! You're being a bit unfair.  Not everyone who is given a mod position becomes a power-hungry tirent (sp?).  I've seen enough good mods out there to say that they aren't just exceptions to the "rule" you quote.  I think you have to be a certain type of person in the first place, one who likes to excersise power for the sake of excersising power, for power to seem to corrupt them.  No one suddenly starts demonstrating qualities that they didn't already have to some degree in the first place.

I don't. Because it means things aren't how they should be. I don't like exercising the power of the mod because I prefer to use mod powers as an absolute last resort, and instead encourage people to do what they should be as myself. Faijer the person encourages people to get on-topic, Faijer the mod is asleep when that happens and is only awoken if Faijer the person reaches his last tether. The reason I accepted the position of moderator was to open that as an option, but it still remains as the last option.

Awww! See? You have the potential to be a good mod.

To me, it's the difference between someone who likes to use the power of the mod, and someone who is simply willing to use it. The latter doesn't have to like doing it, but they do it because they know sometimes there is a need. Most of the moderator power comes not from the functions and abilities of the moderator position, but of the silent power: even if the police never arrested anybody, the knowledge of the legal powers they have reduces crime because of the potential punishment that could result. Threat over action.

Yeah, but there's also other duties, which not all will find pleasent.  For example: in a high-trafic forum, unless the forum has a huge number of mods, each mod has the responsibility of being above a certain level of ... not sure what I should call it.. like preasence or activity.  He/she should be online enough to read a lot of posts and moniter them.  Like I said in my earlier posts, even if that means reading the threads you would otherwise skip because you have no interest in the topic.  A lot of people don't find this a problem, but for some it may be.  For me it was, because I like to randomly disappear for a period of time (week to a couple of months), and when I was a mod I couldn't really do that.

[`Nazukarr]

Yes, all two of us.

Well, four then if we're being overly-picky (which one of them probably will be. But just the one...).

I just like pointing out the difference...
>_>
<_<

~Crowley

I swear, you people dont let me get away with anything without stabbing me in the head about it.

[Faijer]

I just commented on the fact that I just saw you do something I've never seen you do before.

Proclaiming that it was a miracle. Seems like you had an impression of what I was like woven into the tapestry that is your perception of me

Now, now! You're being a bit unfair.  Not everyone who is given a mod position becomes a power-hungry tirent (sp?).  I've seen enough good mods out there to say that they aren't just exceptions to the "rule" you quote.  I think you have to be a certain type of person in the first place, one who likes to excersise power for the sake of excersising power, for power to seem to corrupt them.  No one suddenly starts demonstrating qualities that they didn't already have to some degree in the first place.

And now I have to ask you to read what is actually written. As I mentioned before there are two important factors that most people ignore when it comes to power's corruption of people:

An event that triggers moral ignorance (which is usually a matter of time, since the more time that elapses, the greater the chance of the event happening). There have been many people in history who have avoided being corrupted by power. I would wager that a good many of these people had the power taken away before the event happened. The point is that given enough time the event can happen to anyone, except those wildly sparse few who have a genetic disposition towards altruism (and they are few and far between).

He/she should be online enough to read a lot of posts and moniter them.  Like I said in my earlier posts, even if that means reading the threads you would otherwise skip because you have no interest in the topic.  A lot of people don't find this a problem, but for some it may be.

(I'm assuming you meant to say "for some it may not be" because otherwise that little bit makes no sense)

This was not an issue for me. I took into account the fact that unless I am exceedingly busy, and not on holiday somewhere (as I will be for the first two weeks of September), then I will visit the forums at least once a day, if only as a quick skim-through. This serves two primary functions: it keeps me up-to-date with threads and forum happenings, and it reduces the workload into much smaller chunks. This was not a change for me, since I have several sites that I visit daily for brief amounts of time to check for updates, and it has become part of my routine, so incorporating a little modding duty into that is no biggie.

[Creature]

Proclaiming that it was a miracle. Seems like you had an impression of what I was like woven into the tapestry that is your perception of me

The opinions others have about us are based on our words and actions, dear.   One can say, "I am really not a quarrelsome kid who feels like he has something to prove, even though I act like that.  Deep inside I am a very peace-loving and agreeable prson." all he/she wants, but people are still gonna judge one based on what he/she does and says.

An event that triggers moral ignorance (which is usually a matter of time, since the more time that elapses, the greater the chance of the event happening). There have been many people in history who have avoided being corrupted by power. I would wager that a good many of these people had the power taken away before the event happened. The point is that given enough time the event can happen to anyone, except those wildly sparse few who have a genetic disposition towards altruism (and they are few and far between).

Wow.  That was.. *sniff* so beautiful. *whipes tear* So... phylosophycal and psychology-like.  Unfortunately, it does not change the fact that there are decent, responsible people who do not get corrupted by power, no matter how much time elapses or how much power they have.  I've known such people.  And no, the power has not been taken away from them before the "event" happened.  And I did not really observe anything overly "altruistic" about them either.

(I'm assuming you meant to say "for some it may not be" because otherwise that little bit makes no sense)

No, it makes perfect sense.

This was not an issue for me. I took into account the fact that unless I am exceedingly busy, and not on holiday somewhere (as I will be for the first two weeks of September), then I will visit the forums at least once a day, if only as a quick skim-through. This serves two primary functions: it keeps me up-to-date with threads and forum happenings, and it reduces the workload into much smaller chunks. This was not a change for me, since I have several sites that I visit daily for brief amounts of time to check for updates, and it has become part of my routine, so incorporating a little modding duty into that is no biggie.

Fajie, sweetheart, why do you feel the need to justify yourelf?  Why is it that when we discuss the types of people who are not fit for the position of a mod and the possible barriors that people may have in being a good mod in a purely hypothetical way, you suddenly jump up and scream, "But I'm not like that! I don't have those problems!"  Did anyone here in this thread accuse you of being cruel or bossy towards others for the sake of excersising your "power" muscle?  Or of not being here often enough to monitor your share of posts?  Do you have some sort of insecurity that makes you assume that the remarks made were ment to criticise you?

You know how a lot of peole here like to repeat (in regards to metaphysical arts, magick most often) something to the effect of "You must have power over yourself before you can have power over your surroundings".  And although it gets a little annoying to hear the same thing repeated over and over, it does not make it less true.  So please consider the following carefully:

Before attempting to psycho-analyse others, try doing the same to yourself.  Analyse your own actions and ask yourself, "What does this say about me as a person?  Do I have problems and insecurities that I might want to fix, or is everything in the world somebody else's fault?"

Good luck, Faijer.
I'll be praying for you.

edit: Fixed brackets ~Crowley

[Faijer]

I've known such people.  And no, the power has not been taken away from them before the "event" happened.  And I did not really observe anything overly "altruistic" about them either.

To me, those two statements seem to hold some degree of exclusivity, because a lack of altruism would indicate the presence of greed, which would mean that they are very much prey to falling into a lust for power (since its foundations lie in greed, and that is a natural part of our survival nature). I like to think there are people who could eternally resist the temptations of power, I mean hell, that's what the perfect hero is supposed to be in quite a bit of modern storytelling (Jack Bauer being the first example that comes to my mind). But I've yet to meet a single person who, if given all the powers of the universe (as the most extreme example), would choose not to ever abuse them. It's just such a rare thing.

[psi_vamp]

OMG. This may b a serious descussion, but i am finding it quite amusing now. I cant believe that were talking about the power of admins like the power of gods lol. Also, on another note, i realy like the admins on this site. They are polite, informative, humerous, NOT POWER CORRUPTED people that i enjoy having discussions with. If you want nob head admins go on zfgc forums (i think thats the title) i got kicked off for saying zelda is getting boring now!

[Creature]

Faijie:

To me, those two statements seem to hold some degree of exclusivity, because a lack of altruism would indicate the presence of greed, which would mean that they are very much prey to falling into a lust for power (since its foundations lie in greed, and that is a natural part of our survival nature).

*resists the urge to use the term "reading comprehension" again ^_^*  Please take note that I did not say those people totally lacked altruism.  Just that they did not seem to be overly altruistic. " And I did not really observe anything overly "altruistic" about them either."

But I've yet to meet a single person who, if given all the powers of the universe (as the most extreme example), would choose not to ever abuse them. It's just such a rare thing.

The word "if" is pretty important here.  'Cause, unfortunately you and I and pretty much most people in this world can only speculate over what would happen if so and so good, decent person had super-absolute power.  Because usually, super-absolute power does not just fall on someone's head out of clear blue sky.  The kind of spuer-absolute power we're talking about has to be sought after long and hard.  And the thing that puts the stick into the bycicle weel of testing the theory is that most people who would be interested in seeking the super-absolute power are most likely the kind of power-hungry people who are most likely to abuse it, NOT the good, decent people we are talking about.  Good peole are rare, though. You're right about that.

Now back to the topic of modship (is that a word? *scratches head*... Who cares!).  I wouldn't exactly call it a super-absolute power.  I've seen mods hold their position for a long time and not be "corrupted" by the "power".

psi_vamp: I cant believe that were talking about the power of admins like the power of gods lol.

One can always dream, though, eh boys(Crowley, Remakai, et al)?  ^_~

[Faijer]

Now back to the topic of modship (is that a word? *scratches head*... Who cares!).  I wouldn't exactly call it a super-absolute power.  I've seen mods hold their position for a long time and not be "corrupted" by the "power".

Indeed, so have I. I think we got into the whole discussion about the nature of power and corruption because of the idea of enjoying the use of one's power and the insinuation of some kind of perverse pleasure that seemed to stem from the idea of enjoying such enforcement.

Though I think we can agree that it's not impossible for a person to enjoy the idea of having power for other motives, rather than simply enjoying the act of invoking those powers.

[Creature]

Though I think we can agree that it's not impossible for a person to enjoy the idea of having power for other motives, rather than simply enjoying the act of invoking those powers.

That's pretty much exactly what I've stated before, yes.