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Author Topic: Eastern/Western Composite Astrology  (Read 13358 times)
ThiefDeath
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« on: July 13, 2006, 08:05:28 AM »

Recently I started researching astrology and was fascinated with how accurately my sun sign described me.  Then I remembered that the chinese also had an astrology system and researched my animal sign (though wasnt quite as fascinated with that).  Then I got the idea to combine the animal sign and the sun sign.  I did some research on that and found out that the idea is already being explored.  Some people are calling this "The New Astrology".

For those of you who don't know how astrology works:  In the western zodiac, there is a different sun-sign for each month-period in a year.  In the chinese zodiac, there is a different animal sign for each year in a 12 year cycle.  These signs are supposed to describe things about you, your personality, and your destiny, and are used to determine your horoscope.  The signs are as follows:

Western Zodiac:
Aries: March 21 - April 20
Taurus: April 21 - May 21
Gemini: May 22 - June 21
Cancer: June 22 - July 22
Leo: July 23 - August 21
Virgo: August 22 - September 23
Libra: September 24 - October 23
Scorpio: October 24 - November 22
Sagittarius: November 23 - December 22
Capricorn: December 23 - January 20
Aquarius: January 21 - February 19
Pisces: February 20 - March 20

Chinese Zodiac:
Dog: 1910, 1922, 1934, 1946, 1958, 1970, 1982, etc
Boar: 1911, 1923, 1935, 1947, 1959, 1971, 1983, etc
Rat: 1912, 1924, 1936, 1948, 1960, 1972, 1984, etc
Ox: 1913, 1925, 1937, 1949, 1961, 1973, 1985, etc
Tiger: 1914, 1926, 1938, 1950, 1962, 1974, 1986, etc
Rabbit: 1915, 1927, 1939, 1951, 1963, 1975, 1987, etc
Dragon: 1916, 1928, 1940, 1952, 1964, 1976, 1988, etc
Snake: 1917, 1929, 1941, 1953, 1965, 1977, 1989, etc
Horse: 1918, 1930, 1942, 1954, 1966, 1978, 1990, etc
Goat: 1919, 1931, 1943, 1955, 1967, 1979, 1991, etc
Monkey: 1920, 1932, 1944, 1956, 1968, 1980, 1992, etc
Rooster: 1921, 1933, 1945, 1957, 1969, 1981, 1993, etc

So each system has 12 different signs.  But when you treat each of your signs as a composite and combine the two, you now have 144 possible signs in the new eastern/western combined zodiac.  For example, I was born on May 31st which makes me a Gemini.  I was also born in 1986 which makes me a Tiger.  So by combining those, I am a Gemini Tiger.  Supposedly the new Gemini/Tiger sign can describe much more about me than just the Gemini sign or the Tiger sign alone.

What are your thoughts on this?  The validity?  Can it work?  Who is going to sit there and write 144 horoscopes?  What is YOUR sign?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 08:07:25 AM by ThiefDeath » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2006, 08:35:11 AM »

Well, the zodiac system is obsolete. While the constellation and the position in the sky coincided when it was created, it does not anymore. So technically, you are most probably not actually a Gemini, if the actual position of the constellation in the sky is important. If it is not, then technically it simply doesnt matter how many systems you mesh together, as they dont actually care about the positions of the stars at all.

Here's a link on the issue I could quickly find. http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_praezession_e.htm
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ThiefDeath
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2006, 08:49:46 AM »

Yes I read about that too.  There is a new astrology system being developed which accounts for the position of the planet, the solar system, the galaxy, the subcluster, the cluster, the super cluster, the network, etc...  Ironically this is also called "The New Astrology".  For purposes of this topic, however, I am not worrying about that.  I can assure you I match the Gemini description more than any other sign.
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2006, 01:59:58 PM »

Have you also tried the popular Vedic astrology system? The Vedic astrology is more event-based, I've found that I can easily predict the general outcome of events with it, also it focuses more on your moon sign than your sun sign. It would interesting to also combine this so you have Vedic (Indian), Chinese, and Western (Bablyonian) astrology systems
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solstice
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 02:01:57 PM »

I find the accuracy drops off, when it comes to things outside of a personal profile.
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 03:15:34 PM »

VitalDragon, if you want to go that far, don't forget to add in your Chinese element sign which is determined by which of five dozen year cycles you are in a 60 year cycle (fire, water, earth, wood, metal).
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 10:23:45 AM »

In terms of practically reading a western (zodiac) natal chart, the simple solution is to not read the signs.  In western astrology every planet is placed in a sign and a house.  The sign is in the fixed back drop of stars known as the zodiac, the houses are mobile and dependent on the time and place of a persons birth.  Personally, when I read charts I usually ignore the signs unless their absolutely needed.

A note on what you're doing here with the western month sign and the Chinese year sign:

The Chinese system of astrology works in circles.  Everything circles inward, it begins with the year sign which one twelfth of the population shares with you, then it takes the year element, so one sixtieth of the population shares what with you, then it goes to the lunar (monthly) mansion, then the weekly mansion, then the daily mansion, then the hourly mansion, then the minute mansion, then the seconds mansion to obtain a reading on every level.  Then you take the next planet and do it all over again, traditionally anyway.  In current times, the year sign and element are applied to all planets and then the planets are placed in the lunar mansions in a way that it resembles a western chart (except for the fact that the lunar mansions are all highly irregular.)  The hour, minute, and second cycles are used more for divining then for natal readings.  To me, pairing the western month sign with the Chinese year sign is just getting lazy and deciding that learning the Chinese system of reading and the placement of your Chinese lunar mansion is less worth it then taking the most commonly known element of the western astrology and tacking it on to the most well known element of the elaborate Chinese system.

If you're really serious about learning astrology, I would suggest you pick one system and stick with it, then maybe move on to learning another.
Also for the record, the big five systems of astrology are: western, Chinese, Vedic, Arabic, and Judaic.  The western and Vedic systems are sun schools, the Chinese and Arabic systems are moon schools, and the Judaic systems calculates placements using both moon and sun.  The most information that's out there is on the western system, but if you really love the moon, there's also a lot printed on the Chinese system.  The other three are as developed as the Chinese and western systems, it's just harder to find good books/websites on them.

Last side thought, good beginners books for astrology:
(western) The Inner Sky, Steven Forrest
(Chinese) Chinese Astrology, Derek Walters
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 11:35:11 AM »

Sun, Moon, doesn't really matter to me.  I'm just interested in whatever can identify me as uniquely as possible.
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[23:48] <DanielH> You guys are all strange
[23:48] <DanielH> You have a different way of thinking (which is wrong)

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solstice
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 11:44:12 AM »

*You have a Sun sign and a Moon sign, Thiefy Wink

If you guys was some really excellent personal charts (free), which could cost you hundereds of dollars by a professional, check out http://www.astro.com
Sign up, then click on "free horoscopes", which is actually a hand full of different kinds of charts that you can have made instantly -- personal profiles, horoscopes, compatability profiles and even relative natal charts!

Personally, the charts have given me between 75-80% accuracy, but I shared the site with our friend Maverick who said it is more like 900% lol.  Persent values are based on personal satisfaction and accuracy according to specific details.
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Tell all the Truth but tell it slant: Success in Circuit lies.  Too bright for our infirm Delight. The Truth's superb surprise. As Lightning to the Children eased, with explanation kind.  The Truth must dazzle gradually, or every man be blind.
Tefeari: The Giant Impact Hypothesis is a theory
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2006, 10:07:02 PM »

So I'm a Virgin Bunny.  Hilarious.
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Darkflame
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2006, 10:23:58 PM »

I've seen the Chinese zodiac paired up with the corresponding western zodiac before. Dragon is the Chinese version of Aries for example. They seem to mirror quite nicely for me and give a different perspective of the same thing but I don't think they really provide anything extra when combined.

Sun sign Aries, Moon sign Capricorn, year of the Earth Dragon.
Just in: Year of the Earth Dragon, Dragon inner animal, Goat secret animal ^_^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_astrology

* Darkflame waits for someone to claim that they are a "crouching tiger, hidden dragon"

P.S. The best horoscope ever --v


* bestHoroscope.jpg (18.05 KB, 252x185 - viewed 123 times.)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 09:27:57 PM by Darkflame » Logged

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ThiefDeath
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2006, 06:40:45 AM »

I don't see how a chinese sign can mirror a sun sign like that. Because in that same year of dragon, there was a month for every sun sign, not just aries.  Perhaps what you mean is the characteristics inherited by dragons are similar to those inherited by Aries.

As for that horoscope ( I know, you're making a joke), I'm not really a fan of weekly or monthly horoscopes.  I believe astrology has a good influence on your personality and may be one of the only things that's there influencing you while you're in the womb, which sets distinct characteristics about you for the rest of your life, but once you get out, the path that your life takes is mostly based on your enviroment and everyones life events are scheduled differently and occur in a different random way due to multitudes of factors that are an entirely different combination for everybody.  Due to this, I don't see how a time/event-based horoscope could possibly have any accuracy.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 06:48:42 AM by ThiefDeath » Logged

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Darkflame
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2006, 09:36:04 PM »

Perhaps what you mean is the characteristics inherited by dragons are similar to those inherited by Aries.
Pretty much

I'm not really a fan of weekly or monthly horoscopes. 
Amen, this one was absolutely rediculous.

I believe astrology has a good influence on your personality and may be one of the only things that's there influencing you while you're in the womb, which sets distinct characteristics about you for the rest of your life, but once you get out, the path that your life takes is mostly based on your enviroment and everyones life events are scheduled differently and occur in a different random way due to multitudes of factors that are an entirely different combination for everybody.  Due to this, I don't see how a time/event-based horoscope could possibly have any accuracy.
I mostly agree with you, but I haven't seen how accurate a true horoscope is, like those proper ones that would take hours to do, so I wouldn't discount the accuracy yet.
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2006, 09:17:00 AM »

I believe astrology has a good influence on your personality and may be one of the only things that's there influencing you while you're in the womb, which sets distinct characteristics about you for the rest of your life, but once you get out, the path that your life takes is mostly based on your enviroment and everyones life events are scheduled differently and occur in a different random way due to multitudes of factors that are an entirely different combination for everybody.  Due to this, I don't see how a time/event-based horoscope could possibly have any accuracy.
 
Meaning that you understand how natal horoscopes work and don't understand how transitional horoscopes work?  Also, how are the movements of the planets and such like not environmental factors?  Do you mean you think that once one leaves the womb they are no longer subject to these influences?

I mostly agree with you, but I haven't seen how accurate a true horoscope is, like those proper ones that would take hours to do, so I wouldn't discount the accuracy yet.

A lot of the accuracy of reading a natal chart will depend on how good the astrologer is.  Not only in how well they know the aspects and how to read them, but also in that they know how to respond to the person they're reading for.  Sometimes you'll read for people that will ignore any bad (or good) qualities in themselves you point out to them and the astrologer has to know how to deal with that.  Also, if the astrologer does say something that is completely wrong they need to recognize that and either look for the greater factor in the chart that overides what they said or accept that astrology is far from a perfect method and move on.

From the perspective of someone that does read natal charts, I have to say they are overall accurate (their are always some flaws, but the big picture is usually right.)  Also, I find that astrology can be used to predict the future, not in a detailed picture sort of way, but it is good to know what influences are coming your way so you can deal with them accordingly.
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http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1993/morrison-lecture.html
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 10:22:13 AM »

I don't like "transitional" horoscopes because I've seen people write them before.   People who don't even know the difference between "astronomy" and "astrology".
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