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Author Topic: Would you go to hell if you smoke weed?  (Read 15279 times)
HBKSCM
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2005, 08:56:19 PM »

THere is long tradition of the prophets of God being knowledgable in all the uses of various herbs and plants for medicinal purposes, and marijuana is amongst those medicinal herbs

Why would it be morally wrong? It doesn't harm anyone, It's certainly less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes. As long as you only do it once in a while and still practice meditation everyday it won't harm you. I don't believe you could ever go to hell for smoking weed.

remember, just because the modern society says something is right doesn't mean it is, and just because they say something is wrong, doesn't mean it is
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Fou Lu
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2005, 09:39:29 PM »

Depending on the potency, marijuana can be dangerous.  It can also contain many substances, sometimes deadly in large doses, that the smokers are not aware of.  Marijuana is actually more dangerous than you think, it can be more problematic than smoking cigarettes since it interferes with many bodily functions, including the immune system, but more importantly, the brain.  Thinking and motor control are reduced.  Marijuana also induces lethargy and can ultimately cause depression.  People do irrational things when they use drugs, even marijuana.   

Meditation does not heal damage caused by drugs.  Marijuana does hurt you, even if you use it "every once in a while."  Either way, you are putting toxic chemicals in your body.  Even if you meditate, if you use drugs, your focus and mental abilities will deteriorate much faster than the average person as you age. 

"Once in a while" is also a defense used by many people that use drugs (not saying that you do).  Usually, these people give false reports of when they actually use, or it is more often then they would like to think (denial).  Also, it doesn't take long for "Once in a while" to become "everyday."  I've known a few people that have fallen through this pattern.

You don't need drugs to have a good time.  If you feel the need to "get high" that might be something you would want to think about or talk to someone about.

Not using drugs doesn't mean we are conforming to society.  In fact, by using drugs, we may be conforming to a group that has its own agenda and seeks manipulation for personal gain.       
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HBKSCM
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« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2005, 12:36:34 AM »

There's no credible evidence or accepted studies to support any of your wild claims. All evidence in the world was reviewed by the Canadian senate and there is no evidence of marijuana being harmful that can be considered anything but false propaganda. In fact, the opposite is true, only benefits have been observed in marijuana smokers, No helath problems, no emphasema, no cancer

To call marijuana , cannabinoids, or THC "toxic" is a display of ignorance about it. It is NOT toxic, and you CANNOT overdose on cannabiniods or THC. Now, okay, maybe you don't know for sure that there is no mold, or harmful chemicals in the smoke, but there are other ways, like cooking with cannabis. There is nothing inherently toxic about marajuana

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

I would recomend NOT talking to those who would claim to "help" you like a counselor, doctor, police, or Dr. Phil. No
« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 12:46:57 AM by HBKSCM » Logged
Fou Lu
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« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2005, 09:05:37 AM »

I do not believe that THC would have a beneficial effect on someone's health.  Marijuana does depress many systems in the body, including the immune system.  This is the whole point of the drug, to induce a lethargic, dull state.  This is where many problems arise.

Visiting

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

has not convinced me that marijuana is not harmful to oneself or society.  Also, on that website, I found no support for using the drug for recreational use, which is the main concern here.     
« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 09:16:57 AM by Fou Lu » Logged
HBKSCM
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« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2005, 09:15:26 AM »

WHat is harmful to society, obviously, is prohibition. It was the same with alcohol prohibition in the 30s. It just caused violence and allowed Gangs to flourish. When it was made legal, all that disappeared. Certainly prohibition is what causes crime and the harm that is associated with drugs.

A 30 year scientific study that found no harm from smoking pot long term, written in the Medical Journal Lancet, is not good enough? But american propaganda and nonsense is?

Smoking pot does no harm, the only drawback is that if you smoke it a lot....why? Why do you need to do that? It indicates you aren't tolerant, so if you smoke weed, then you're still an ordinary person and not really a cultivator of enlightenmen. But it's harmlesst
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« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2005, 09:30:02 AM »

I'm sorry, but not prohibiting marijuana use would be a grave mistake.  Marijuana is quite different from alcohol. 
If we did not prohibit marijuana use, we would be stuck with a society that gets high all day and forgets about daily obligations and work.  There are hundreds of problems that would result from this.  One factor that would cause this is the fact that Marijuana is easily grown at home.

Many people in the world face many challenges in life, and giving them access to a drug that makes them lethargic and careless does not help at all.  It provides an easy outlet and careless, reckless attitude about duties and obligations.

I can't justify recreational use of any drug.  I think people that feel the need to use them in this manner need to question why they do it, because I believe there is much more to it than to simply get high.   
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HBKSCM
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« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2005, 11:46:35 AM »

More wild claims with no evidence to back them up. If you believe in prohibition, all I can say is you are not intelligent, at all, and you don't have a clue what you are talking about. That's not meant to be an insult, but a statement of fact

However, smoking weed is not good for spiritual or energy development, of course not.

But it does NO harm at all, and there is no evidence for anyone anywhere to claim otherwise. So as far as ordinary people in society who are not on a path to enlightenment, there is no problem at all , whatsoever with smoking bud and it does nothing bad to anyone

When would I recommend smoking Pot? when it's in your best interests, which can be often. For example, what if the hottest girls in your grade smoke pot? What if you want to get into a more respetable group of friends, one that goes out and parties on the weekends? Since it does no harm at all, since it does not make people lethargic, there are obviously cases where it would be wise to use marijuana, for social gain.

I come from Canada, BC. You smoke weed or you have no life or social power. When you enter the town I live in , there is a giant Marijuana leaf sign


ANd how do you know how easy growing weed is anyways? Secondly, your statement of that being a problem or causing problems, doesn't follow.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 11:52:57 AM by HBKSCM » Logged
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« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2005, 12:40:17 PM »

I don't understand your argument, HBKSCM. Just because smoking weed might not cause harmful -physical- affects, it's mental ones are disastarous. It hinders most people's ability to make good decisions while high, and is also addictive, obviously. In fact, it might be considered worse than drinking in the fact that it's possible be a little drunk, but your either 'high' or you're not.

Secondly, if the hottest girls in your grade smoked pot, then it means that they're hardly worth a passing glance. I may be stereotyping here, but the 'kinds' of people that smoke weed on a regular basis are the 'kinds' of people who make other poor choices. And if you say that you -need- to smoke pot to be respectable in a certain group, then why even be concerned with them? You're lowing yourself down to playing by their rules of 'smoke pot or you're a loser -in our opinion-'. You may want to look for a group that's actually going somewhere in life, and is more likely to live and become successful than a group that is likely to be unable to break their addiction and, for lack of a better phrase, fail at life.

I understand the want to be both accepted and respected, but there are many other kinds of groups out there other than the loser stoner ones.
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HBKSCM
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« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2005, 01:09:36 PM »

Marijuana is not addictive at all, so why are there still people in places of the world who continue to spread lies?

If you want to go some where, cultivate spiritually.

It doesn't matter where people are going, but did you know people I smoked weed with in the past have all sorts of successful jobs, positions or skills? Anyways, for the most case you're not going with anyone anywhere.

In fact you are streotyping, if you actually did a study you'd find total losers who are still total losers, and very successful people materially or socially, smoking pot.

Where are you getting these anit marijuana delusions from anyways? Nancy Reagan? WTF? It's 2005, you don't take George Bush seriously do you?

Look man, didn't Dr. Dre, Snoop, D-12,G-unit, and all the rest show you that it is indeed glamorous and cool? It's not 1985 you know
« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 01:12:16 PM by HBKSCM » Logged
HBKSCM
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« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2005, 01:40:37 PM »

http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/marijuana/facts/mj-health-mythology.html

There is no issue of credibilty here, because all the scientific journals and evidences are refrenced and sited
Quote
Myth: Marijuana is a dangerous drug
Any discussion of marijuana should begin with the fact that there have been numerous official reports and studies, every one of which has concluded that marijuana poses no great risk to society and should not be criminalized. These include:

    * the National Academy of Sciences Analysis of Marijuana Policy (1982);
    * the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse (the Shafer Report) (1973);
    * the Canadian Government's Commission of Inquiry (Le Dain Report) (1970);
    * the British Advisory Committee on Drug Dependency (Wooton Report) (1968);
    * the La Guardia Report (1944);
    * the Panama Canal Zone Military Investigations (1916-29);
    * and Britain's monumental Indian Hemp Drugs Commission (1893-4).

It is sometimes claimed that there is ``new evidence'' showing marijuana is more harmful than was thought in the sixties. In fact, the most recent studies have tended to confirm marijuana's safety, refuting claims that it causes birth defects, brain damag e, reduced testosterone, or increased drug abuse problems.

The current consensus is well stated in the 20th annual report of the California Research Advisory Panel (1990), which recommended that personal use and cultivation of marijuana be legalized: "An objective consideration of marijuana shows that it is respo nsible for less damage to society and the individual than are alcohol and cigarettes."

      References: The National Academy of Sciences report, Marijuana and Health (National Academy Press, 1982), remains the most useful overview of the health effects of marijuana, its major conclusions remaining largely unaffected by the last 10 years of research. Lovinger and Jones, The Marihuana Question (Dod d, Mead & Co., NY 1985), is the most exhaustive and fair-handed summary of the evidence against marijuana. Good, positive perspectives may be found in Lester Grinspoon's Marihuana, the Forbidden Medicine (Yale Press, 1993) and Marihuana Reconsidere d (Harvard U. Press 1971), which debunks many of the older anti-pot myths. See also Leo Hollister, Health Aspects of Cannabis, Pharmacological Reviews 38:1-20 (1986).


Marijuana does not cause emphysema, cancer, or heart disease. 1 joint = 2 cigarettes, put in very simplistic basic terms, though in actual fact they cannot be compared as they have completely different effects
Quote
Myth: One joint equals one pack of (or 16, or maybe just 4) cigarettes
Some critics exaggerate the dangers of marijuana smoking by fallaciously citing a study by Dr. Tashkin which found that daily pot smokers experienced a "mild but significant" increase in airflow resistance in the large airways greater than that seen in persons smoking 16 cigarettes per day.(7) What they ignore is that the same study examined other, more important aspects of lung health, in which marijuana smokers did much better than tobacco smokers. Dr. Tashkin himself disavows the notion that one joint equals 16 cigarettes. This does not necessarily mean that one joint equals four cigarettes, since joints usually weigh less. In fact, the average joint has been estimated to contain 0.4 grams of pot, a bit less than one-half the weight of a cigarette, making one joint equal to two cigarettes (actually, joint sizes range from cigar-sized spliffs smoked by Rastas, to very fine sinsemilla joints weighing as little as 0.2 grams). It should be noted that there is no exact equivalency between tobacco and marijuana smoking, because they affect different parts of the respiratory tract differently: whereas tobacco tends to penetrate to the smaller, peripheral passageways of the lungs, pot tends to concentrate on the larger, central passageways.(9) One consequence of this is that pot, unlike tobacco, does not appear to cause emphysema.


Prohibition is not in any way beneficial or good
Quote
Myth: Prohibition reduces the harmfulness of pot smoking
Whatever the risks of pot smoking, the current laws make matters worse in several respects:

   1. Paraphernalia laws have impeded the development and marketing of water pipes and other, more advanced technology that could significantly reduce the harmfulness of marijuana smoke.
   2. Prohibition encourages the sale of pot that has been contaminated or adulterated by insecticides, Paraquat, etc., or mixed with other drugs such as PCP, crack and heroin.
   3. By raising the price of marijuana, prohibition makes it uneconomical to consume marijuana orally, the best way to avoid smoke exposure altogether; this is because eating typically requires two or three times as much marijuana as smoking.

Unlike the government, NORML is interested in reducing the dangers of pot smoking; California NORML and MAPS (the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) are currently researching the use of waterpipes and other advanced smoke reduction technology.

References on Marijuana and Smoking: Donald Tashkin, Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health?, Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 635-7; June 1993; Research Findings on Smoking of Abused Substances, ed. C. Nora Chiang and Richard L. Hawks, NIDA Research Monograph 99 (National Institute on Drug Abuse, Rockville, MD 1990); NAS Report,op. cit.; California NORML, Health Tips for Marijuana Smokers.


Smoking moderate amounts of Marijuana improves care while driving
Quote
Myth: Marijuana is a major road safety hazard
A growing body of research indicates that marijuana is on balance less of a road hazard than alcohol. Various surveys have found that half or more of fatal drivers have alcohol in their blood, as opposed to 7 - 20% with THC, the major psychoactive component of marijuana (a condition usually indicative of having smoked within the past 2-4 hours).(3) The same studies show that some 70 - 90% of those who are THC-positive also have alcohol in their blood. It therefore appears that marijuana by itself is a minor road safety hazard, though the combination of pot and alcohol is not. Some research has even suggested that low doses of marijuana may sometimes improve driving performance,  Two major new studies by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration have confirmed marijuana's relative safety compared to alcohol. The first, the most comprehensive drug accident study to date, surveyed blood samples from 1882 drivers killed in car, truck and motorchycle accidents in seven states during 1990-91.(5) Alcohol was found in 51.5% of specimens, as against 17.8% for all other drugs combined. Marijuana, the second most common drug, appeared in just 6.7%. Two-thirds of the marijuana-using drivers also had alcohol. The report concluded that alcohol was by far the dominant drug-related problem in accidents. It went on to analyze the responsibility of drivers for the accidents they were involved in. It found that drivers who used alcohol were especially culpable in fatal accidents, and even more so when they combined it with marijuana or other drugs. However, those who used marijuana alone appeared to be if anything less culpable than non-drug users (though the data were insufficient to be statistically conclusive). The report concluded, "There was no indication that marijuana by itself was a cause of fatal accidents." (It must be emphasized that this is not the case when marijuana is combined with alcohol or other drugs). The second NHTSA study, Marijuana and Actual Driving Performance, concluded that the adverse effects of cannabis on driving appear "relatively small" and are less than those of drunken driving. (6) The study, conducted in the Netherlands, examined the performance of drivers in actual freeway and urban driving situations at various doses of marijuana. It found that marijuana produces a moderate, dose-related decrement in road tracking ability, but is "not profoundly impairing" and "in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs." It found that marijuana's effects at the higher doses preferred by smokers never exceed those of alcohol at blood concentrations of .08%, the minimum level for legal intoxication in stricter states such as California. The study found that unlike alcohol, which encourages risky driving, marijuana appears to produce greater caution, apparently because users are more aware of their state and able to compensate for it (similar results have been reported by other researchers as well.(7)) It should be noted that these results may not apply to non-driving related situations, where forgetfulness or inattention can be more important than speed (this might explain the discrepancy in the Baltimore hospital study, which looked at accidents of all kinds). The NHTSA study also warned that marijuana could also be quite dangerous in emergency situations that put high demands on driving skills.


Quote
Myth: Marijuana prohibition improves public safety
There is no evidence that the prohibition of marijuana reduces the net social risk of accidents. On the contrary, recent studies suggest that marijuana may actually be beneficial in that it substitutes for alcohol and other, more dangerous drugs. Research by Karyn Model found that states with marijuana decrim had lower overall drug abuse rates than others; another study by Frank Chaloupka found decrim states have lower accident rates too. (Cool In Alaska, accident rates held constant or declined following the legalization of personal use of marijuana.(9) In Holland, authorities believe that cannabis has contributed to an overall decline in opiate abuse. Recent government statistics showed that the highest rates of cocaine abuse in the West were in Nevada and Arizona, the states with the toughest marijuana laws.



« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 02:00:57 PM by HBKSCM » Logged
HBKSCM
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« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2005, 01:42:55 PM »

lol, not everything the guy says is true, but this article is still pretty hilarious in some ways
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/geninfo/news_time_10272002.pdf
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HBKSCM
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« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2005, 02:04:44 PM »

So basically, the evidence shows that if you are addicted to harmful drugs like stimulants or depressants, like alcohol, cocaine, perscription drugs, heroin etc.  A good way to get off of those drugs is by taking harmless natural hallucinogens like, there has been success using Ayahuasca vine to induce visions of other worlds and when the people come back they don't need drugs anymore because they are more happy. Marijuana could also be beneficial in getting off of addictive stimulents or addictive depressants
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« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2005, 03:03:15 PM »

First of all, I want to tell HBKSCM that there can be no sugar coating of weed.  It does increase cancer risk, and it can have other negative, although mild, effects on the development and function of the brain, although this does depend on the amount it is used, and the time of somebody's life it is used in (ie, teenagers going thru puperty).  Also, to be flat out honest, I think smoking weed to "get in with the cool kids" is straight up pathetic.
On the other hand, I personally like to get high with my friends on weekends.  There is a cancer risk, but I can accept that just as much as a cigarette smoker - in fact it is less of a problem for me because I don't blaze up that often.  It is not a healthy activity.  I admit that and I would never try to convince somebody of the opposite, but I personally feel that it is an acceptable risk to take for all the fun I've had.
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HBKSCM
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« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2005, 03:13:41 PM »

Human society in general is pathetic in the same sense. How many times do you go along with things that have nothing to do with pot because others are doing it? All the time. How often do people suck up to people in positions of power. I've seen experiments done on TV.......people always suck up to their boss and resent others trying to do the same thing.....How often do people lie about themselves when they meet someone new? it's been shown to happen all the time. By whatever means they use, almost everyone tries to get ahead socially, conciously or unconciously. That's the mentality of ordinary people in society and that's just how they are, they want to gain and get ahead. If not, you're deciding to miss out and lose out because it's too hard, or you're afraid. Who would willingly lose in issues of personal gain except a spiritual cultivator?

There is no credible evidence marijuana causes birth defects. It does not cause cancer, and there is no evidence that can be considered legitimate to show that. People shouldn't make claims with no substance or backing behind them
« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 03:17:20 PM by HBKSCM » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2005, 05:42:29 PM »

AnnolisReaper: You're confusing Catholicism with Christianity Wink Christ commands people to turn away from ungodly acts and desires and to become worthy of God. Sins can be forgiven, certainly, but why should God forgive you if you don't really mean it? (ie, if you just keep doing it then you're not really sorry, and your request for forgiveness is just words in the wind)

~kakkarot
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Philippians 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,  7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
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