Why you don't really want to learn "lentation".

[kobok]

The worst thing about lentation was probably giving it a name.  When you give something a name, it can give it a mystical allure beyond its actual content.  So what is this "lentation"?  In short, it was an article from some time ago with a few reflex building exercises with a description of trying to boost adrenaline release.  Now every so often someone reads something on some other website about the super-powers of "lentation" and comes here trying to find them.  This post is for those people, and so people have something to point those people to.

First lets discuss adrenaline.  Adrenaline is simply a hormone released by your body when frightened or excited.  It's that feeling you get when somebody drops a book behind you, or you're on a date, nervous, and stumbling all over.  Now the premise of lentation is that adrenaline is great for fighting, and so you should try to get a lot of it.  To a certain extent adrenaline has been historically helpful for people, but only to an extent.  We have evolved to release adrenaline to trigger the so called fight-or-flight response.  It shifts our behavior and it shifts some of the blood flow in our body.  For one, adrenaline makes us alert to what's going on around us, and reduces higher brain function, causing people to want to either hit something or run away scared.  It increases blood flow to the legs for the purpose of fleeing, and shifts the balance of nervous system function (resulting in the nervous/alert/scared sensation).

Now we evolved adrenaline way before we evolved intelligence, and from its effect on the body you can see that it evolved to give an optimized lower-brain response to a threat.  The first problem that arises is when people suggest that more adrenaline than your body naturally releases is better.  Adrenaline is something that has existed for a very long time, and if it were advantageous to have more adrenaline, your ancestors would have already long ago evolved that higher amount.  The levels of adrenaline we produce when threatened are well-tuned to provide an effective animalistic response to danger.  Higher levels are in fact, less productive, because they imbalance the body too much to produce an effective response since they disrupt the nervous system too much, and alter blood flow too greatly.  If you have ever seen a war veteran with nervous system problems from adrenaline overdose, then you know precisely why you don't want higher than normal levels.  And if you have ever seen a war movie with one of the classic scenes where the soldier gets too much adrenaline and suddenly loses mental presence and just stands there looking around at everything while bullets go whizzing by his head, then you know that higher levels of adrenaline are not at all ideal for survival or winning a conflict.

The second problem that arises is when people suggest that adrenaline makes people into better fighters.  Adrenaline makes animals into better fighters, but not necessarilly people.  Adrenaline does raise the heart-rate, but then again, the heart-rate raises anyway as soon as you start moving just from the physical exertion.  Adrenaline also shifts the balance of the nervous system to try to make an animal focus on its danger and to reduce other thoughts in the animal.  This is great for animals, and terrible for martial artists.  We have higher order brain functions which, if used properly, are several orders of magnitude more useful for fighting and surviving conflicts than any hormonal release.  Neanderthals were a species of hominids that was enormously strong, tough, resistant to pain, and better suited to surviving the cold than humans, yet by 29,000 years ago, humans had completely wiped Neanderthals from the face of the Earth.  Our only advantage was the human mind, yet it was such a profound combat advantage that this far more physically capable species stood no chance.  The problem is that adrenaline disrupts this mental advantage, giving a fighter the equivalent mental advantage of someone on a first date.

So what then?  What's the alternative?  You need look no farther than the masters of the classic martial arts to discover the more effective approach.  Martial arts masters have for a long time described the most effective state for combat as a clear, calm, sharply alert mind in which awareness is high, but focus stops on no particular thing.  This way we can maximize our mental capacity by reacting to all things around us using trained nonconscious reflexes, and leaving the higher level brain functions operating for the purpose of thinking through tactics and strategy to direct the nonconscious portions of the brain that are executing maneuvers.  This state is often referred to as "the zone" by athletes, and is a state of calm confidence, which is the exact opposite of the nervous excited state caused by adrenaline.  Top athletes and their trainers will tell you that the zone is the condition under which performance is best and reactions are optimal, and this applies both to sports and combat.

[Zankuro]

Good topic. You might want to pin this in the martial arts subforum, the main hall, and maybe even the psi forum just to make sure potential seekers have no excuse to not see it.

On a broader note, many people seem to think that (perhaps becasue of its original alias and description, if they've heard of those days) lentation is a method or mental process of bending your perception of reality and decreasing reaction time to the point of performing acts you might see in movies like The Matrix. As has been pointed out (many, many times), this is just not the case. It's an--as we've found--ultimately detrimental way to increase awareness; you're not going to watch a punch slow to a literal crawl.

As kobok stated, looking at it from a strictly combatative point of view, a clear, focused mind is the key to real combat. It doesn't matter if you have enough adrenaline in your system to be toxic; if your extemporaneous thoughts get in the way of your movement you're just as vulnerable as anyone.

Practice, work, and discipline are what true skill comes from. There are no shortcuts.

[Sekhmet]

And if you have ever seen a war movie with one of the classic scenes where the soldier gets too much adrenaline and suddenly loses mental presence and just stands there looking around at everything while bullets go whizzing by his head, then you know that higher levels of adrenaline are not at all ideal for survival or winning a conflict.

The second problem that arises is when people suggest that adrenaline makes people into better fighters.  Adrenaline makes animals into better fighters, but not necessarily people.  Adrenaline does raise the heart-rate, but then again, the heart-rate raises anyway as soon as you start moving just from the physical exertion.  Adrenaline also shifts the balance of the nervous system to try to make an animal focus on its danger and to reduce other thoughts in the animal.  This is great for animals, and terrible for martial artists.  We have higher order brain functions which, if used properly, are several orders of magnitude more useful for fighting and surviving conflicts than any hormonal release.  Neanderthals were a species of hominids that was enormously strong, tough, resistant to pain, and better suited to surviving the cold than humans, yet by 29,000 years ago, humans had completely wiped Neanderthals from the face of the Earth.  Our only advantage was the human mind, yet it was such a profound combat advantage that this far more physically capable species stood no chance.  The problem is that adrenaline disrupts this mental advantage, giving a fighter the equivalent mental advantage of someone on a first date.

 This state is often referred to as "the zone" by athletes, and is a state of calm confidence, which is the exact opposite of the nervous excited state caused by adrenaline.  Top athletes and their trainers will tell you that the zone is the condition under which performance is best and reactions are optimal, and this applies both to sports and combat.

I get that whole 'stand there and not sense things around you' when I pay for things while out with friends who are conveniently mooching if nobody is paying seperately. Its why I simply like to split things. I have high testosterone, a 52, and i was last year, close to adrenal fatigue, a condition that means your adrenalin is maxed out,

UPDATE: the body may not necessarily run out of adrenaline but chronic fatigue is something that can happen from adrenaline being used far too often leaving someone feeling maxed out.

I have my heart rate always on actually, and I fear many stimuli that people do not (mostly crowds, since I absorb people's feelings like a spong or lately have been better shielded).

As far as sports, yes, the zone is definately where you are to catch balls. every time I haven't caught anything in my life its because I'm in lala or spaceland. When you miss targets in archery, when you inhale water in the pool, when you're about to fall on your face and actually do on the track, when somebody punches you in sparring, all these are foibles you can avoid. I want to do more sports because apparently that eases my adrenal rush (which was maxed out last year thanks to all the damn parties in the dorms), and well, cortisol helps with severe acne that arises with increased testosterone, all from the sympathetic nervous system.

The parasympathetic is what regulates and slows all that down. and well, for me its a constant battle if I drink coffee. A good book that goes into the differences is Why Zebras Don't Get ulcers, and well, I like the going into of anthropological history, basically my immediate 20th century ancestors didn't really get over their fight-or-flight, and that can cause high blood pressure among other things. the key to the zone is to not let your heart rate go higher than a certain amount is that it?

I was on a gym bike yesterday and managed to keep it at 157, then 169, then I was distracted by a momentary shock of something else (hence the heart rate goes up for a moment,) and I cool it to 167 before abruptly getting off which wasn't good but I was back to normal rather than breathing hard as hell afterward while getting myself to class

A soldier will also be dealing with posttraumatic stress well after the fact, so he'll wind up experiencing flashbacks as though he's still in the moment. Born on the Fourth of July is one of those movies.

[Natus Denuo]

Great topic, kobok.

I wonder when DD will swing into here and give his two cents .

[Sekhmet]

perhaps darkduck is engaging in an online version of lentation in response times?

[SleepWalker]

It was my understanding that lentation's purpose was to speed up the brain not flood a person with adrenaline.
Oh the training was an effort to adapt to the release of massive adrenaline to sustain the calm state with that adrenaline.
Yeah quite a dangerous thing.

[Sekhmet]

sleepwalker,

Something yogis learn and biofeedback practioners teach is how students can in fact, learn to accept adrenalin when it flows.

Lentation sounds great but more importantly your interpretation is also interesting.

To type to your point, I will say that the human body can only take so much adrenaline, before it maxes out or can't regenerate enough to replace the loss.

lentation + dimmak= near invincibility provided nobody tranqs you or restrains you.

I only escaped adrenal fatigue btw because I forced myself to eat, (hence my contribution to veritas being my  knowledge of holiistic health,) I also plan on becoming a lawyer in the business of defending holistic health.

That's another thread though, with the bus route changes lately, I have to be on guard to get out of the house,


Basically to sum up what I've thankfully to the author, learned about lentation, it is a process by which individuals can reach a maximum heightened alertness. with ADD however, there is this claim (aside from drinking too much coffee or not getting enough sleep, ) that a person with ADD gets sleepy upon reaching that plateau. as someone who wants to learn three martial arts styles (size can suck things), I'll attest that this is a load of garbage.

All mental states are cultivated since self-discipline comes from an awared focus of being able to do so. I can basically let go of whatever I choose and so can anybody. The fact that the establishment believes in ADD is because they choose not to treat it with teaching mindfulness and self-discipline.

Or combine martial arts with patient rights advocacy, and you really have a kick ass combination, hence my desire to learn dimmak, and I praise the person who had the cojones to write about an otherwise taboo subject such as lentation,

My goals are: finish my shaolin kung fu/kempo chinese/japanese mixed style, (AKA Chu'an FA), tae kwon do, and begin ninjutsu, really though I just want to learn as much as I can. I get around alone at night alot for someone like me. You'd think I'm supposed to be all helpless, a cute helpless gal, but that ain't gonna happen, not with dimmak knowledge.

I may have to use it someday, and as for lentation - I have to thank you again.

[Sekhmet]

It was my understanding that lentation's purpose was to speed up the brain not flood a person with adrenaline.
Oh the training was an effort to adapt to the release of massive adrenaline to sustain the calm state with that adrenaline.
Yeah quite a dangerous thing.

Yeah and in my earlier point I wanted to go with yours on a smaller summary, was also that massive adrenaline sustained does the following:

1) raises heart rate to the point you feel like passing out,

2) makes you dizzy, so your blood pressure is going up

3) if you can't control all this, I assume lentation can kill you if you're inexperienced, I want to reference the Chinese DSM-IV descriptors but all I remember at this point is 'la locura' in a fit of ethnocentricism,


4) if you can't adapt to a decent state of adrenal flow, you will collapse but this is coming from yours truly, Sekhmet who happens to have a very active nervous system and has never collapsed,

This article has made me rethink a few things, lentation is not obviously like drinking three cups of coffee plus meth (no I haven't done this, that is really stupid ) but other drugs also increase dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine plus epinephrine,

I'm just naturally alert. yes, sometimes I realize now in some situations I get into a state of NEAR lentation,(can't say I know what it is)  I had no idea that's what too much jumpyness can do to someone.

Lentation, it just sounds like something my daily life is sometimes like at times when in high stress. The implication arises that lentation may cause death.

[Lightbringer]

And darkduck still alive why cant we survive it?

Because DD realized it was stupid to keep doing lentation so he stopped.  This is just a classic case of little immature kids who think doing exactly the opposite of what they're told to do is rebellious and therefore a more adult reaction.  Making a stupid decision simply to be defiant will ALWAYS hurt you, so for god sakes, learn to decide what to do by looking at the facts rather than as a reaction to what you're told.

I actually contemplated whether I should even warn you any more about lentation.  It seems far more realistic to just let you practice until you have a stroke or simply burn out your heart and nerves at 25 years old.  Who am I to get in the way of natural selection?  Of course brain damage wouldn't be too damaging to you or JC, you guys seem to still be functioning (at least on some basic level) without using your heads too often.  Actually we could just fast forward this whole process with one phrase.  If my advice and common sense has simply gone in one ear and out the other this should work quite effectively: "Don't run in front of speeding cars.  It doesn't build your resistance to high-speed impacts."

I'll be watching the news for the kids who got smoked trying to play a real-life game of Frogger...

[Dark Omega Overlord]

There HAS to be a way of not getting hurt while practicing it. And yes I might be stupid for trying it. Thank you for caring about ppl. I still gonna do it and maybe one day Ill be the one telling ppl not to do it...... maybe not.

[Lightbringer]

There HAS to be a way of not getting hurt while practicing it. And yes I might be stupid for trying it. Thank you for caring about ppl. I still gonna do it and maybe one day Ill be the one telling ppl not to do it...... maybe not.

You might as well say "There HAS to be a way to jump from a skyscraper and not get hurt when I hit the ground going at my terminal velocity", you can't change your brain chemistry through sheer will.  Nor can you get around excessive adrenaline's damaging effects since to do so would require achieving the desired effect without using adrenaline, which wouldn't be lentation.  If you want to speed up your reactions, there are ways to do that far more effectively since they'll always be that way as opposed to only when you're high on epinephrine.  There are some very obvious boundaries to our mortal bodies which people don't test because they know better, this is one of them.

[Frozen]

This is the best thread I've seen in a damn long time. Good idea, Kobok. Lightbringer, I completely agree with you. Honestly, if there's a thousand people waiting in line to tell you NOT TO PUSH THE RED BUTTON, then why would you do it? Dark Omega Overlord, if you want to do lentation, then luck to you. But really, is it worth it?

[ShiningDragon]

Well since I've been gone a long time it seems that lentation has lots its popularity which is probably about time. Anyways what I really wanted to say is that many people here seem to be taking everyones words like they are the greatest geniuses ever born and in all reality I really don't know you at all. I know a lot of you from years back, but it still doesn't mean that your always right. In the original lentation article by DD all his techniques for developing his so called "Lentation" were rather simple, but were somehow supposed to increase adrenaline output into my body.

Now you are all talking about how it's bad because the constant high levels of adrenaline are bad for the body, but how do you know that it was really making you release anymore adrenaline than when you play a video game or go play a sport. I remember how when Dark got hit by a car, and said that he lentated at the last second to save his life. I'm not saying he lied, but I am saying that maybe it was just his primary response after years of martial arts just to ,duh move out of the way of a speeding car.

 I guess what I'm getting at is that it was never proven that any of those techniques would in any way steadily increase adrenaline output anymore than practicing a sport. The better explanation is simply that if we all take a look at the people around us we know we think faster and in some cases slower than others when it comes to certain things. Each of our brains is unique in its own way and its ability to fire synaptic responses may differ from someone elses, but after doing a repeated activity over and over again it becomes easy to do and requires less thought.

[SleepWalker]

So you submit that the article is training upon how best to take advantage of such moments of adrenaline?
I don't see all the excercises as doing that myself, many of them possibly.

[ShiningDragon]

I'm just saying that the whole lentation idea is a great concept, but in all reality it was and never has been proven to increase adrenaline so how can you guys be saying it's is bad for your health. I beleive that most of the training techniques are harmless.