Author Topic: The Clinch  (Read 2112 times)

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June 25, 2005, 07:03:44 PM
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Is anyone here well versed in the clinch? If so can you yield some information please?

June 26, 2005, 12:33:43 AM
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Vecna

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One line topics aren't allowed Void, can you add something to your posts to make it a bit longer please? Perhaps explain what you know already about the Clinch?

~Aziraphale


July 06, 2005, 07:01:53 AM
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abzu

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1) Control the head
2) Control the head + an arm
3) Control the body with a double under arm body lock (like a hug going under his armpits)

1 usually leads to knees or a transition to 2.  2 usually leads to dirty boxing or a transition to 1. 3 usually leads to a throw or a throw, possibly even throws.

Maybe if we knew your experience first and what you're looking to learn.
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July 06, 2005, 09:14:45 AM
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Nik Miller

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make sure to hold with your forearms as well as your hands when clinching the head.
Nik Miller

Hah, 10 lbs, thats a knife. My barbarian death killing torture broad sword made from pure titanio-dimondolium weighs 455 lbs!

"Those with wisdom loath the one forced to defend"  Johannes Liechtenauer

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July 06, 2005, 02:09:09 PM
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JKDChick

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Cup one hand over the other on the back of the next. Don't interlace your fingers.

August 25, 2005, 12:41:14 AM
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Oblivion

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well it all depends on what you're aiming for. If they wanna grab you behind the head and begin kneeing you in face, do the same grab to them. Controling an arm and the head requires two arms. your oppoent still has one and can get in kidney/rib shots with his free arm, painful.  If your oppoent gets you in an under arm hug, swim into his guard, for example, if he has his arms wrapped around you under your arms, take your hand, either one, and thrust in between his bicep and chest, if succesful you have gained one arm under him, repeat. If your aiming for damage, for damge, you have two free arms, he has a head and two knees, he is too close to use the kness, perform any attack you want to the head, if you want to cause intense pain and stun him, cup both hands slightly, pull arms back, slap ears, ow.
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August 27, 2005, 11:11:56 AM
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Schifu

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I'm back from Thailand again and I did great for those wondering  :elephant:
I was meaning to post this way back before I left to train, but I never completed it and then just forgot about it.
Also bear with me if my descriptions seem vague or just weird. ;)


*If you're actually trying this out without any prior experience - STOP. Join a decent MT gym and learn it all properly instead of being a f**king keyboard warrior, I wrote this to help people *improve* their clinch game*

I'd like to share what experience I have with clinch work.
Thich is probably the area where us westerners lack the most (at least in Muay Thai circuits).
I'm going to talk about the Muay Thai clinch which differs a bit from the Mixed Martial Arts clinch in that we stand straight up, instead of a bent back stance as we don't have to worry about takedowns...

Before I get started there a couple of factors that will determine how you do in the clinch.
These are:
***Initiation
***Balance and Stance
***Grip
***Hand and arm positioning
***Attacking
***Defending

If even one of these are neglected your clinch will suffer and you will probably end up lying on the canvas wondering what happend. :)

Another key note is that you should haul ass, everything you do in the clinch should be speedy and remember YOUR ASS SHOULD MOVE.
I see so many people just standing there trying to trade knees it's almost sad, you should be trying to move the opponent around and make him wish he never went into the ring. If you get tired don't just stand there, get even closer to your opponent so he can't execute any attacks and remember don't stop squeezing, infact you should be squeezing even harder now that you are resting on him.

***Initiation

The first thing on the list is how you actually initiate the clinch. I've at numerous times trained with guys that just open their arms and try to grab my head which results in them getting KTFO with an elbow. You should never just plainly try to grab someone's head, even if that's your intention.

There's a myriad of ways to get into the clinch and I'll list my favorites. Note that I'm expecting that you have at least some formal training and know how to keep a good guard, initiate attacks fast and fighting terminology.

- The most effective way is to go for a jab, cross, knee to the gut.
Even if you don't end up hurting the other opponent, his attention will be directed towards his gut, at which time you push your hands down on his biceps and then grab his head/neck. (I'll come back on what to do and how to do this later)

- Rear Thai roundhouse, "The jump in cross" from which you don't pull back the hand to guard, but instead grab his head/neck.

- Teep (Front Thai push kick), lead closing roundhouse to the ribs, grab the head/neck.

- Teep, Teep, Rear teep, Quick step in and push down his biceps, grab the head/neck.

***Balance and Stance

When we (Thai boxers) are in the fighting stance we put all our weight on the rear foot in order to quickly be able to teep. The rear foot is also positioned to form an angle between 45-90 degrees (also known as the L). Once we enter a clinch things work a little bit different. In a clinch all your weight should be evenly distributed, your center of gravity low and your toes should be facing forward - against the opponent. The feet should no longer stand in the forward/rear position, but simply at shoulder width.
This ensures that if the other guy tries to pull you around you will still maintain a certain balance.

***Grip

Perhaps the most neglected part of the clinch is how you form your grip. There are several ways to do these:

- Cupping your hands
- "The buddy handshake" - Simply hold on to your own hands
- Grabbing your wrists
- "The one hander" - position your strong arm diagonally towards the opposite side and then use your other hand to grip the wrist.

All of these work for different situations. Cupping your hands for instance is one of the weakest grips, but I've had to use it several times against taller opponents where I couldn't use any other grip. The buddy handshake is weaker than the cup, but is much better if you plan on throwing around the opponent.
Grabbing your wrists is the ideal clinching method, since you're virtually locked. However this doesn't work when you are wearing boxing gloves, which leads us to the most widely popular grip - the one hander.

***Hand and arm positioning

This is the most important aspect of the clinch. It's what separates the seasoned veterans with over 100 fights under their belt from the keyboard warriors. I'll be getting back on what to do from these positions later on.

- The neutral position
This is how you should enter into any clinch no matter what and trust I know from experience.

You use any grip at your disposal and pull down his head, your forearms positioned around his neck and upper pecs. Note that the "sharp side" of your forearm should be pointing downwards while pulling the neck downwards and tightly pressing the neck together at the same time (and when I say tightly I mean squeeze the shit out of your opponent).

- Under arm and neck position

From the neutral position you use the elbow of your jabbing hand to press into the other guy's clinch and under the shoulder. You then apply any grip and start squeezing the shit out of the guy. This is my favorite position as you're now in control, while your opponent can't do squat since he's locked up. Your rear leg is also free at this point so feel free to land as many slam/side knees as you want to on the opponent's ribs.

- The almost illegal grip

This is a lovely clinch move and the crowd loves it. You start by doing the Under arm and neck position move, only this time it's done with both hands (***One at a time*** and feel free to knee the sucker before you go in with your other arm). At this point it should look like you're hugging him with your head lying on his pecs. For the Muay Thai folks - beware, the ref often stops if you keep doing this, and when you clinch hold it as high as you can. (Clinching around the lower back region is illegal). I love using this for throws since I end up being steady and in control while my opponent can't rotate for shit. It's also a really dirty way to score some points (which the Thais LOVE).

***Attacking

The reason why you are in the clinch anyway. :)

Straight knees
For those of you that don't know how to deliver straight Thai knees your rear knee is pushed into the opponent's stoumach. The way to properly execute this is to first pull the rear leg forward with the knee chambered and once it passes your lead leg you thrust it in with your hips. Don't try to jump into the knees, you may feel like Ai Tim in Ong bak, but you lose considerate power by not standing on a leg and using it to further push the knee in. Also on a side note the lead leg (the one you'll be *standing on*) should be up on the ball of the foot. (When you're on the ball of your supporting foot you will allow your "kneeing" leg to travel further)

Slamming knees/Side knees
Once in the clinch do a roundhouse block with the leg you want to attack from and then instead of putting your leg down move it in a circular movement in towards the opponent. Again use your hips to generate power, but unlike the straight knees you should be standing on your entire foot to maintain balance since these knees are much slower to execute. These can be executed towards the ribs, the legs and my favorite - the head. In order to reach up to the head with power move towards the side you plan on attacking from, Ie. If you want to knee with the right leg, you should be standing outside your opponent on the right side. Then jump diagonally towards the opponent and shift *all your weight* left and slam your right knee into his head. Also remember that when you jump your left leg should be in a straight line while your right knee is chambered as it prepares to slam into your opponent's head.

Throws
It's far to difficult to explain the process of throwing, and it's one of those things that you generally have to develop all for yourself. I've got a couple of pointers though and I'll also tell you how to do my dirty throw a little further down this text.

*Try to execute a throw once the opponent lifts a leg
*Pull him/her around and then quickly go for a throw
*Throwing *over* your hip is illegal, but using the hips for leverage is not.
*Try to get a really tight grip, move around and quickly shift direction and then throw

Now here are some tips on how to attack from different positions:

- Attacking from the Neutral position
This is a dangerous position to attack from. Your opponent can do just as much damage to you as you can to him. Also if you try to attack from this position there is a large chance you end up getting thrown down on the canvas if the opponent can see it coming. Straight knees are your most dangerous weapon, if your opponent is tired you can even lay on on his head (note that you should still use a thrusting knee, I *never* use "lifting knees" which go straight up because they leave you vulnerable to attack. If you get tired just get really close and then try to slam some side knees. If you are shorter than your opponent you can try to execute throws from this position, but unless he lifts a leg and is out of balance it's really hard to throw someone around that's as tall as you from this position.

- Attacking from the Under arm and neck position
This is the safest position. You are free to move about as you wish while your opponent follows. Let's say that you jab with your left hand. This would mean you've locked him up on your left side. This effectively allows you to throw HARD right slamming knees and only allows three options for your opponent - Throwing weak slamming knees, try to throw you or simply sit back and feel the pain ;).
Apart from the slamming knees you can also execute a pretty good throw from this position. This is done by lifting him (just hold on tightly, bend your knees, move in and lift) and then shifting your weight towards a direction while trying to throw him.

- Attacking from The almost illegal grip
I love this position because people rarely use it and if you don't practise it you don't get it. From this position you can move around freely while forcing your opponent with you. Your opponent is also effectively unable to knee you here. If he does he has to move around clumsily and when he does you just got yourself a free throw. You can also easily slam a couple of knees on his thighs from this position. What I love about this position though is that it deters the other person from wanting to get into the clinch out of fear from your deadly throws . ;)

You can also do the strongest throw around in Muay Thai from this position and while it is in reality considered illegal no referee cares if you do this quickly.
While gripping on tightly bend your knees (more so than in the other throws), grab your opponents lower back (this allows you to more easily lift him) and then stand tall. Your opponent should now be in mid air and you should be trying to shift him left or right. At the same time raise the leg which you are moving him towards. This results in his upper body continuing to move while his lower stops. Then simply drop him and he'll fall down on his ass. I use this all the time, especially in Thailand where the fighters are much better clinchers and believe me, the crowd loves it. I've been outkicked, outboxed and outkneed on several occasions and because of this move my opponent ended up on the floor more than me and guess who won?  ;)

***Defense
There really isn't a lot to say about this aspect of clinching. Those who know it well will survive the deadly clinch though.

*Everytime your opponent raises a leg and you haven't pull him around to make him loose his balance. The last thing you want is a knee.
*KEEP MOVING
*If you get tired or if your opponent is much stronger (or taller) than you - get close and make sure he doesn't land any straight knees. Only use throws and slamming knees.
*Once you are done and want to leave the clinch don't just back up, try to attack the opponent then let go and either jab or teep his ass to prevent him from hunting you.
*Don't bother trying to stop slamming knees with roundhouse blocks, it will still hurt like a mofo and you will have raised your leg for nothing as well.

I guess that pretty much sums it up. There is still A LOT more about the clinch, but I hope this has at least in someway helped you guys out.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2005, 11:51:47 AM by Schifu »
I bring absolutely nothing to the table. ^^