Author Topic: Introduction to Kinetics  (Read 47227 times)

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December 26, 2009, 02:09:32 PM
Reply #15

kobok

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I'm sorry but I don't understand how to achieve awareness of the soul

Most people don't until they begin practicing an exercise like this one.  You learn it in a gradual way by obtaining feedback as you are practicing.

and can I use a psi wheel? because I may not have a candle on my room... :(

You can use just about anything as a target (although see the warning on the use of hands), it is simply that the candle flame is presented because it is a particularly easy and ideal target to begin practicing with.  I will add a note which frequently causes me concern:  Psi is far more potent of a tool than a candle.  If you cannot handle a candle responsibly, can you handle psi responsibly?  This is something for you to reflect upon.
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April 12, 2013, 07:44:32 PM
Reply #16

galeb

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I am new at the form, but old and experienced at lots of things. Assuming that because someone is not allowed a candle in their room, means that they are not responsible enough to handle psi is not fair to the person. I would never allow one of my children to have a candle in their room either. Main reason is that one of the other children might barge into the room and knock it over. . Also many parents are over protective and hold back their children development in many areas.

Now about the idea that soul is responsible for all pis activity.
Impossible to prove one way or the other, but my understanding is that most of the things done function in the astral relm and can be accomplished by use of the mind (Mental relm is above the astral and so can control it and the relms below it.)  There are powers and abilities that are called sudi powers that are supposedly controlled by the soul, but requires many years of training to acquire.  The ability to kill with a word or a thought, comes to mind.
I do not see where anything more than mental activity is required. I has always worked for me.

June 02, 2014, 03:56:24 PM
Reply #17

Enneack

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This was a very insightful article. Thank you for writing it.

I'm still not persuaded on the question of the soul's involvement though. I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea how psi works, but with that I have to wonder how you could possibly know whether a "soul" (a rather loaded concept, you must admit) is integral to the process. It sounds to me like you are describing the subconscious mind.

I think it's really easy to succumb to false positives in this field. I'm completely convinced that your method works, but that doesn't mean that it is the only one that does. I can perform kinesis without really shifting the location of my perception as you put it, but rather by simply relaxing the boundaries of my mind by realizing that the separation between objects that I perceive is on one level illusory.

June 02, 2014, 11:00:31 PM
Reply #18

kobok

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I'm still not persuaded on the question of the soul's involvement though. I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea how psi works, but with that I have to wonder how you could possibly know whether a "soul" (a rather loaded concept, you must admit) is integral to the process. It sounds to me like you are describing the subconscious mind.

Hi Enneack.  It's a complicated question in totality, but there is another article here which endeavors to explain some of the reasons why I use the term "soul", and why we can completely rule out subconscious aspects of the brain as being the primary mechanism.
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August 04, 2014, 06:05:49 AM
Reply #19

Explorer

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does the distance from the candle affect the ability , sitting close to a candle vs sitting far across makes any difference ?

also the candle on its own is never still , it will flicker , move towards left and right on its own so how to counteract that .. there is no windows in my room but flame doesn't stand still..
maybe its because of the breathing air that their are air currents which are effecting candle flame although i sit quite far and sometimes even wear a handkerchief mask

should i continue with flame or use ( Psi wheel + glass bowl + no hands ) ?

i don't want to mistake movement because of heat/ air current to movement caused by Psi

thanks

August 04, 2014, 02:20:15 PM
Reply #20

Rayn

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also the candle on its own is never still , it will flicker , move towards left and right on its own so how to counteract that .. there is no windows in my room but flame doesn't stand still..
maybe its because of the breathing air that their are air currents which are effecting candle flame although i sit quite far and sometimes even wear a handkerchief mask

Distance mechanically makes no difference.
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.

August 04, 2014, 08:39:26 PM
Reply #21

kobok

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does the distance from the candle affect the ability , sitting close to a candle vs sitting far across makes any difference ?

also the candle on its own is never still , it will flicker , move towards left and right on its own so how to counteract that .. there is no windows in my room but flame doesn't stand still..
maybe its because of the breathing air that their are air currents which are effecting candle flame although i sit quite far and sometimes even wear a handkerchief mask

As far as psi is concerned, being closer or farther does not make it any easier or harder.  But being farther away IS helpful for isolating the candle from breathing.  When I first started practicing this long ago, it was generally at 10+ meters.  If you don't have this much space, this is not necessary.  But you are better off placing the candle across the room from you rather than next to you.

Aside from setting it far away, one other thing that I've found helpful is placing a candle down in a jar, just below the rim, to minimize breezes.  You can take any jar you find stable (safety first) and suitably sized, and pack baking soda (cheap, non-flammable) in the bottom to get the exact desired height inside the jar for the candle brand you like.  Then add a small amount of water to dampen the baking soda so that as it dries it will become a solid base.  Then you have a candle in a jar that gives you a fire resistant base, some breeze protection, and even a lid you can put on to store it.
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August 08, 2014, 08:41:12 AM
Reply #22

Explorer

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thank you rayn and kobok sir

September 29, 2014, 11:39:21 AM
Reply #23

Enneack

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Hi Enneack.  It's a complicated question in totality, but there is another article here which endeavors to explain some of the reasons why I use the term "soul", and why we can completely rule out subconscious aspects of the brain as being the primary mechanism.

Hey Kobok, it has been a long time since I originally asked that question but I have come to see that you are right. I simply had a personal knee-jerk reaction to the word soul, but I understand the concept as you use it and have no philosophical problems with it whatsoever.

The question I keep coming back to though, is one of distance. I think that both you and Rayn said that distance shouldn't matter during PK, but my personal experience doesn't line up. I can move things from farther away than being right next to them, but the "force" (for lack of a better word) being transmitted is noticeably weaker than when I am close. This certainly could be the result of a mental block, but I'm not sure that's all there is.

Without getting too bogged down in details, it seems that there are two basic competitive theories to explain PK. One is the idea that you are manipulating the probability that a particular object will move. I think I've read that you favor this interpretation, Rayn. The other is that there is a "force" that is transmitted from one body to another, in this case, the wheel and myself.

If the first option is correct, distance should indeed not matter whatsoever. And yet, I can't really satisfy myself with this explanation. It doesn't really actually explain all that much. What does it really mean to influence the probability of something? Was that probability always objectively there, like some cosmic value that you are manipulating,or is it based on your subjective interpretation of the likelihood of that object moving? I think that absent a better understanding of probability than we (or perhaps just I) have, this answer doesn't really tell me anything more than I already know: somehow, I can make a physical system that is outside my body move.

That's why I've come to prefer the second option recently, although it too leaves very much to be desired. The key difference seems to me that if there is indeed some sort of signal being communicated, it could potentially be either blocked by something, or weakened over distance or time. I'm personally going to have to test these hypotheses myself and see what I can find, but I'd be very glad if someone had any thoughts on the matter that they would share.

As an aside, this website is awesome. I'd basically given up on the idea that there would be an online community that was actually interested in figuring things out rather than just claiming to know all. I'm glad this place exists, and I've already learned a ton here.

September 29, 2014, 01:59:09 PM
Reply #24

kobok

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Hi Enneack.  What we know from parapsychology studies is that distance never affects the result as long as the person doing it doesn't know how far away it is.  This is essentially the prerequisite for testing this rigorously, and whenever that condition is in place, distances has no impact.  So when does distance have an impact?  This happens when the person doing the psi act knows how far away the thing is AND expects that distance has an impact.  Therefore the other way to make distance have no reduction is to thoroughly internalize the scientific study results that distance doesn't matter, after which it will no longer hinder you.

As for the "force" theory, this explanation only sounds reasonable for the most straightforward of kinetic acts involving moving objects around.  Most of what one does with kinesis involves far more complicated manipulations of things, where it can only reasonably be thought of as more like shifting of probabilities such that a different future state occurs.
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September 30, 2014, 03:08:50 PM
Reply #25

Enneack

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What we know from parapsychology studies is that distance never affects the result as long as the person doing it doesn't know how far away it is.  This is essentially the prerequisite for testing this rigorously, and whenever that condition is in place, distances has no impact.  So when does distance have an impact?  This happens when the person doing the psi act knows how far away the thing is AND expects that distance has an impact.  Therefore the other way to make distance have no reduction is to thoroughly internalize the scientific study results that distance doesn't matter, after which it will no longer hinder you.

Now that is interesting. I'll try to find some studies on my own, but you remember offhand a good keyword or place to start looking?

As for the "force" theory, this explanation only sounds reasonable for the most straightforward of kinetic acts involving moving objects around.  Most of what one does with kinesis involves far more complicated manipulations of things, where it can only reasonably be thought of as more like shifting of probabilities such that a different future state occurs.

I guess it was too much to hope for that the explanation would lie within the bounds of classical physics.

I honestly just can't wrap my head around the probability manipulation hypothesis satisfyingly. I guess it all has to do with the essential flow, or change of the universe. And perhaps our energy can be utilized in ways that somewhat shapes that flow, but for the life of my I can't come up with a mechanism for how that actually happens.

September 30, 2014, 04:05:27 PM
Reply #26

kobok

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I guess it was too much to hope for that the explanation would lie within the bounds of classical physics.

I honestly just can't wrap my head around the probability manipulation hypothesis satisfyingly. I guess it all has to do with the essential flow, or change of the universe. And perhaps our energy can be utilized in ways that somewhat shapes that flow, but for the life of my I can't come up with a mechanism for how that actually happens.

Well, the mechanism is certainly not within classical physics.  As for that and the sources, you can find a list of sources at the bottom of the article The True Nature of Psi.  In particular, the Conscious Universe book has an excellent coverage.
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October 18, 2014, 02:21:39 PM
Reply #27

Rayn

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I honestly just can't wrap my head around the probability manipulation hypothesis satisfyingly. I guess it all has to do with the essential flow, or change of the universe. And perhaps our energy can be utilized in ways that somewhat shapes that flow, but for the life of my I can't come up with a mechanism for how that actually happens.

As far as how the non-physical parts interact with physical things, we can empirically observe this as well.

Take for example these words:

that but and

Information can be defined as that which makes something distinguishable from another thing. So, in this sense, information would make those words distinct.

Now, say that we do this:

atahtdtbnu

What makes them distinguishable is lost; therefore, information is lost where information also determines the frequency of those characters. You can model frequency, statistically, probabilistically.

Now, this directly relates to physical energy in that configurations of energy that determine where it will be found are probabilistic where the work it can do is directly correlated with how many distinguishable states one has. Now, uncertainty is correlated with entropy where entropy can be defined as when states become more and more indistinguishable. When you look at the relationship this has to information, you see then that information is thus lost from the system where information is correlated with frequencies per probabilities.

Now, let us look at what psychokinesis on an entropic system tells us. In such a system, the uncertainty in the system is reduced which inversely implies there is an increase in information where particular configurations are structured resulting in certain physical states. This tells us that psychokinesis deals with information to manipulate the probable structures of energy, one. Two, this tells us that the organization imposed generates no entropy as a result and thus violates the second law of thermodynamics, which is statistical.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 02:59:25 PM by Rayn »
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.

December 08, 2014, 08:30:13 PM
Reply #28

`Nazukarr

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Fun tip - If you're struggling with expectation, channel a powerful fictional character. You'd be surprised by how much more powerful your expectation becomes.  :)
I am not this hair, I am not this skin, I am the soul that lives within.

December 08, 2014, 08:59:38 PM
Reply #29

Rayn

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Fun tip - If you're struggling with expectation, channel a powerful fictional character. You'd be surprised by how much more powerful your expectation becomes.  :)

I have spoken to kobok on this, and I think he does not use expectation in the conventional sense(that is not meant to be criticism as in he should). For example, I loop my clairvoyance into my psychokinetic ability. Say I were to sense fire. A part of me is now "fire". When I perform psychokinesis, there are experiences associated with aspect. I use this when I make the decision to say light something on fire(say a candle). Kobok refers to that as an expectation, but that is not expectation in the conventional usage of the word. If I did not have experience with this prior to reading what he wrote, I would not be able to understand what he meant. What I do is contigent on it being veridical, so how one goes about expecting something to happen would probably not do if that is what kobok means by the expectation thing.

I find this article needlessly confusing, to be honest. An intentional state is a mental state of or about something where you have experiences associated with this. A mental part of you uses itself to represent a state of things. So, it is you using you to represent something. The idea is to have that represent the actual state of things you want where that is filled with experiences. So, if you want to light something on fire, you have to have a part of you be fire, in a sense. You use this when you make the choice to say light that candle. That choice causes you to put that into effect where that is actualized. His language is really confusing for something simple, I think. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 09:11:10 PM by Rayn »
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.