Author Topic: Jeet kune do as a martial art  (Read 4606 times)

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July 09, 2004, 06:16:54 AM
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wandering_soul

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What do you think of jeet kune do as a style, and how it fairs against traditional ones?

July 09, 2004, 07:08:20 AM
Reply #1

Enlightenment

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Sure, I know quite a bit on the subject, hell, I take JFJKD.

Jeet Kune Do, is a philosophy.  It is simply taking the path of "no-way as way"; meaning a martial art form without adhearing to any one set of principles or classic ideals.  Jeet Kune Do really could be anyone's because it is just the idea of eclectic thinking, taking what is good and disregarding the rest.  So therefore Jeet Kune Do itself is not a style, however Bruce Lee's set techniques of Jeet Kune Do are known as "Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do", literally translating to "Bruce Lee's Way of The Intercepting Fist".  I know a bit about this, I currently am learning Jun Fan from a student of Dan Isonato's (one of Bruce's senior students).  It is a very effective fighting style, I think.  It is clean, sharp and to the point.  There are no shortcuts around Jun Fan.

I rather like the groundwork rules for Jun Fan; and they are..

Approach Jeet Kune Do with the idea of mastering the will.  Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain.  Let your opponent graze your skin, and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him smash into your bones--and you take his life!  Do not be concerned with your escaping safely--Lay your life before him!

I think that it lists the "what if's.." in order of importance there rather well.  IMHO, if your opponent is meerely grazing your skin, then punch him harder than he did you; if he punches you with the same intensity, break one of his bones, and if it comes to the breaking of your bones, your life is most likely in danger; so it is necessary to pull off either a deadly or knocking out (prefferably knocking out, considering that you dont want to risk having to spend your life in jail with a man named Bubba  ;) .) technique for safety purposes, I know it says care not about safety..but in that case, it could mean your life!  If one worries on the results of the combat (e.g.-winning/losing) then they will be too clouded with thoughts of "I have to kick this guys ass, I cannot lose", instead of considering fighting as a way of self expression.  There is no need to worry about who wins or loses, about what people will say if YOU lose.  No, in my view, a person is only defeated once they accept defeat.

as well, in the words of SiGung Lee; "The great mistake is to anticipate the outcome of the engagement; you ought not to be thinking of whether it ends in victory or defeat.  Let nature take its course and your tools will strike at the right moment"  Again I say, there is no need to concern yourself with winning or losing.  Fighting should be, IMO, a way to express the self.

Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do isnt a good style because Bruce was a super star (although he preffered the title "super-actor" :\.) in Kung Fu cinema.  It wasnt because he was world famous.  No, it was because he was a dedicated martial artist who was more or less...fed up with alot of things.  Chinese racism, white people's racism..everyone's racism against each other; the fact that things such as styles sepparate us, and that we must look past that to find truth within ourselves and express ourselves honestly (fighting).  Fighting is an honest expression of the self.  He was also fed up with how martial arts were getting the nasty reputation (and many still have to this day) of not being effective in street sittuations.  Anyone who knew anything about Bruce does (or should) know that Bruce when in Hong Kong, before he moved to Seattle was into many, many street fights.  From here, he really got a feel of what worked and what didnt through his martial arts training.  Bruce was said to have only studied Wing Chun; but actually he studied many styles while laying the groundwork for JFJKD.  Bruce had over 2,000 books on varying martial art styles alone, it is said.  JFJKD is a good style because it was looked at from the perspective of realism and simplicity.

for more information, check out this site

as well, try to get your hands on a copy of The Tao of Jeet Kune Do, by Bruce Lee; and Striking Thoughts by Bruce Lee.

Both are very good reads into Bruce's philosophy, not to mention "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" contains a bit about his fighting style to learn.  Understanding his philosophy and adapting what works from it for you, and leaving what doesnt..is the first step to becomming good in JFJKD.

Be Well.
En: Get into a class.
Preferably a Hatha Yoga class.
Avoid Yogas
Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
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ROFL

July 09, 2004, 08:42:35 PM
Reply #2

kakkarot

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"I think that it lists the "what if's.." in order of importance there rather well. IMHO, if your opponent is meerely grazing your skin, then punch him harder than he did you; if he punches you with the same intensity, break one of his bones, and if it comes to the breaking of your bones, your life is most likely in danger; so it is necessary to pull off... [etc]"

except that you are the one escalating the conflict in the first place and placing *their life* in mortal danger and pushing *them* to continue stepping up in order to keep them safe. i think what he means in that passage isn't to continually escalate, but to overcompensate for the force that your opponent is using, which i don't agree with unless it /is/ a life-or-death situation.

bruce lee says that it's not about winning or losing, yet some of his sayings really do give the impression that it is about winning over losing. in my personal opinion, the warrior should look to more than just the immediate situation and realize the far reaching implications of everything he/she does; so losing a fight might be a very good thing if you lose nothing yet it helps your opponent grow as a person. if you do stand to lose something (which is usually the case in such conflicts) and the opponent does not stand to grow as a person then i believe that you should not let yourself lose. if you stand to lose something and the opponent stands to grow as a person as well, then it should require careful consideration of what might be lost compared to what might be gained, before you decide what course of action should be taken.

remember though that there are more options than merely "win or lose", and there are even many ways in which one could win or lose. always you should consider what actions and what outcomes will provide the most benefit to everyone involved while carefully weighing the possible negative effects of such actions. it takes a lot more thought and effort than merely attacking and defending at the appropriate times, but the rewards for all can be much greater as well :)

~kakkarot
Philippians 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,  7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

July 09, 2004, 09:26:32 PM
Reply #3

Enlightenment

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agreed, kakk.

however, I usually do not put it in that form of thinking.  It is not a sittuation of anger/hate/winning/losing/pride/revenge/whatever; it's self expression to me.  If they engage the conflict, to me..they have already decided that they were ready to deal with the outcome, good or bad.

Be Well.
En: Get into a class.
Preferably a Hatha Yoga class.
Avoid Yogas
Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
Tsu: No :P
ROFL

July 12, 2004, 11:43:15 PM
Reply #4

Zake

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Uh, sorry to be a bit of a realist, its just that, in a real life streetfightish situation, it IS about winning over losing.  'Cos if one loses there, the best one could could hope for would be getting beaten black and blue and having ones wallet stolen, or some similar.  All the "self-expression"-type philosophy seems better suited to a dojo, IMHO, 'cos we're not all the sort of enlightened people who don't mind getting our asses kicked.
Act; for the universe will never forget your movement, nor will it ever forgive your stillness.

July 13, 2004, 05:47:45 PM
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VERiTAS

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Quote from: wandering_soul
What do you think of jeet kune do as a style, and how it fairs against traditional ones?


I think its funny to here as jeet kune do as a style - my perception is that it conveyed correctly it should be your personal stlye like lee had his own - I dont see how it can be learned by following anothers movements?
Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificandoque Invenies Occultum Lapidem

July 13, 2004, 06:14:13 PM
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Enlightenment

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Veritas: yes, Jun Fan is his personalized set of techniques, adhering to the JKD philosophy.

Zake: actually, it works rather well for me; keeping your mind clear of all concerns of winning or losing, getting hurt, fear, doubt; basically all things that could hinder your fighting ability kept clear from your mind makes things work rather well.  I have been in plenty of fights to know what I'm talking about, I think it's best to not fear anything; IMO fear is just a hindrance, as is thoughts of losing/winning a fight, etc. etc..  Getting your ass kicked only happens if you fail to fight well, you fail to fight to your best ability--generally it is due to hindrances going through your mind when you fight.  It has worked very good for me, maybe not for others :\; just saying I've had far more than my fair share of street fights and it works well for me.

Be Well.
En: Get into a class.
Preferably a Hatha Yoga class.
Avoid Yogas
Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
Tsu: No :P
ROFL

July 13, 2004, 06:19:20 PM
Reply #7

VERiTAS

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Quote from: Enlightenment
Veritas: yes, Jun Fan is his personalized set of techniques, adhering to the JKD philosophy.

Zake: actually, it works rather well for me; keeping your mind clear of all concerns of winning or losing, getting hurt, fear, doubt; basically all things that could hinder your fighting ability kept clear from your mind makes things work rather well.  I have been in plenty of fights to know what I'm talking about, I think it's best to not fear anything; IMO fear is just a hindrance, as is thoughts of losing/winning a fight, etc. etc..  Getting your ass kicked only happens if you fail to fight well, you fail to fight to your best ability--generally it is due to hindrances going through your mind when you fight.  It has worked very good for me, maybe not for others :\; just saying I've had far more than my fair share of street fights and it works well for me.

Be Well.


If your mind is concerned with fear/agression winning/losing you are not in the here and now and will be slower and unable to feel the begining of movements - the angry man will never beat his gentle aware counterpart.
Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificandoque Invenies Occultum Lapidem

July 13, 2004, 06:31:41 PM
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Shin Kuie

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I don't know if this has been said, so I'll say it now. To me, JKD uses the best from various other styles and discards the rest. That also is something Bruce once said if I remember correctly, I may check it out on the DVD I bought on it.
Recognizing your ignorance, is the first step towards wisdom.

July 13, 2004, 06:42:17 PM
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VERiTAS

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Quote from: Shin Kuie
I don't know if this has been said, so I'll say it now. To me, JKD uses the best from various other styles and discards the rest. That also is something Bruce once said if I remember correctly, I may check it out on the DVD I bought on it.


Is it not more disgards what is not right for you - in essence almost forming you own style form the the culmination of all work in this field - would it not be easier to adopt your true own style from your pyhsical fighting inception?
Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificandoque Invenies Occultum Lapidem

July 13, 2004, 06:52:44 PM
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Enlightenment

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it is more than that; people tend to misinterpret what Bruce really meant when he said "absorb what is usefull, disregard what is useless".  He did not mean, to think to yourself "hmm..I like the silat elbow techniques, I think I'll look at them a few times, then add them to what I use", no.  To use a technique, a silat one in this case, you must take silat classes, learn the silat mindset, philosophy and whatnot.  You must become a silat practitioner to use silat techniques.  It is not simply browsing styles for what you enjoy, if it were that simple anyone could buy a few books, read up and be done with it all.

Be Well.
En: Get into a class.
Preferably a Hatha Yoga class.
Avoid Yogas
Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
Tsu: No :P
ROFL

July 13, 2004, 07:07:56 PM
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VERiTAS

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Quote from: Enlightenment
it is more than that; people tend to misinterpret what Bruce really meant when he said "absorb what is usefull, disregard what is useless".  He did not mean, to think to yourself "hmm..I like the silat elbow techniques, I think I'll look at them a few times, then add them to what I use", no.  To use a technique, a silat one in this case, you must take silat classes, learn the silat mindset, philosophy and whatnot.  You must become a silat practitioner to use silat techniques.  It is not simply browsing styles for what you enjoy, if it were that simple anyone could buy a few books, read up and be done with it all.

Be Well.


But if you are on the level (like practising lots of energy work) of energy and let it flow - is there any need to take any classes - hypothetical of course?
Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificandoque Invenies Occultum Lapidem

July 14, 2004, 12:58:06 PM
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Enlightenment

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I was reffering to martial arts, not energetic manipulation; which, aside from working with TCM and QiGong (so basically stuff dealing with Chi)..I know nothing of.

Be Well.
En: Get into a class.
Preferably a Hatha Yoga class.
Avoid Yogas
Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
Tsu: No :P
ROFL

July 14, 2004, 01:36:03 PM
Reply #13

Shin Kuie

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Enlightenment, I realized that. Sometimes the simplest is the best, and I didn't have time to go deeper than that. Seem you've taken care of it though ;).
Recognizing your ignorance, is the first step towards wisdom.