Author Topic: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained  (Read 104957 times)

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June 27, 2004, 09:08:55 PM
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Koujiryuu

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Originally posted by the knowledgable Kendamu and Donjitsu2 here: http://www.ki-teachings.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1


This is for all those who still question that radki is useless. I will
pick apart the most basic and most referenced techniques in the radki
“canon” of techniques.

It seems to me that many of you radki kids are missing the point. We
have never said that being able to attack, defend, move, or knock out a
person without making physical contact is impossible. In fact, numerous
times we speak at great length regarding to use of “no touch” power. We
simple refer to skills that enable one to harm another with out making
physical contact as the Lin Kong Jing (powerful empty force) or
Kiaijutsu. We have never said that with ki training you cannot become stronger
or faster. We simply call those methods by different names like nei
jing training (for internal power) or Speed Gong training (gong means
skill, this skill is from the Shaolin temple). We have never said that you
cannot have incredible amounts of power in your strikes. We just call
these methods shi jing, fa jing, ect… You see just because a skill seems
“esoteric” doesn’t mean we are going to write it off as radki or
“fluff”. It is the method by which you are attempting to gain certain
“esoteric” skills that we may call into question. Not all training method are
created equal. The radki training may promise certain desirable skills.
But do they deliver? Through out its history radki has never been able
to “walk the walk” so to speak (though radki practitioners do try to
“talk the talk”). The traditional methods deliver every you could ever
want out of martial training system: Health, fighting ability, and even
the legendary powers so many seek. You just need to put in the training
time. For those of you who still feel that radki has some thing to
offer I have listed below the three most common radki techniques and they
form the basis of all other techniques. (I have not listed the ki ball
exercise because in reality the ki ball exercise is a traditional
training method for healers). Along with a discussion on the Ki blast, Ki
shield, and Power up, I have also included a discussion on the incorrect
radki usage of the word “jing”.

One of the first things you will have to understand about the proper
usage of Qi is the “4 Big Points”. The four big points are the things
truly necessary in utilizing your qi in daily life and especially in
combat. Without them your techniques will be, what Yiquan creator Wang,
Hsiang Zhai referred to as, “lifeless and without real power or spirit”.
The four big points to utilizing qi for combat are:

1. Correct Posture
2. Correct Breathing- (either Buddhist style of Taoist style)
3. Correct Bodily Mechanics
4. Correct use of Intent



**"Ki blast: Place one hand out and make a chi ball. Begin to let
energy flow into that ball making it so big that it’s as big as your hand
and you can grip it all the way around. When a ball of energy is made
that big, begin to fill your arm with Chi itself and look at your target
drawing imaginary lines at it so you may guide your chi blast along
those lines. Unleash the energy you had in your arm out onto the ball of
energy and let it propel it out to the target. (To make the chi blast
damage whoever ... see the blast going through them making a hole in
them.) "**

Notice how at no point does this description mention anything about
body mechanics, breathing, or posture. All the practitioner is given is a
bunch of visualization. And might I add that this is improper use of
visualization (intent). I mean would anyone expect to be able to throw a
good strong punch or kick without first being well versed in posture,
body mechanics, breathing and intent. Of course not. Even modern boxing
with its simplistic approach to throwing punches has rules for
breathing, posture, body mechanics, and focus (intent). At its very base level
you are taught to punch by having one foot in front of the other,
spread about shoulder width apart, shoulders square with your opponent,
guard up, head up, and to stay “light on your toes”. That is just proper
posture for boxing, which is much more simplistic then any other martial
art. I could write a whole paper on the mechanics of a boxer’s punch,
which would include focus, posture, body mechanics, and breathing. Yet,
in this description of a radki technique, when we are working with a
very subtle energy, we are given nothing to work with but visualization.
Is that a basis for a proper technique? I think not. While we are on
the subject of visualization: the radki kids didn’t even get that right.
We all know qi (ki) is led by the mind (yi). But, do we really need to
“lead our qi by the hand”? Of course not, qi has been flowing through
you since your conception – with you having to even think about it. So,
if we simply wish our qi to flow out of our bodies all we need to do is
extend it beyond our body. With enough internal power you can extend
your qi a great distance. However, to build up the kind of internal power
needed for that and especially the kind of internal power needed for
combat you will need to be doing some internal power training (like zhan
zhuang). That is another thing radki sites never mention: nei jing
(internal power) training. If you are lucky you might get a description of
basic seated meditation or I’ve even seen a SECTION of the Ba Duan Jin
(a basic qigong). Trust me that isn’t nearly enough to build the kind
of power needed for martial applications.





**Ki Shield : Place both hands out in front of you . See within your
mind energy flowing from your Kae-dem into your arms . Then from your
arms to your hands . You will know when the energy is there . When you can
feel the energy in your palms, within your mind make the energy itself
expand around your hand"s however big you want it to be (the smaller
the easier ) . Hold it there at however big you have gotten it to be and
begin to visualize that Energy field you created upon your hands
turning into glass. The harder you focus on that glass ( shield ) the thicker
it will be."**

Now this one is the funny one. It pretty does all the bad things the ki
blast does, as I mentioned above. However, it goes a step further:
manipulating qi after it has left your body.
With that said lets look at the why of this technique. Why would be
need a ki shield? To block “ki attacks”. Well, that won’t work because all
you doing is bringing ki out and letting surround you (which you
actually aren’t doing for those of you who didn’t read the above links). How
is that any different from the ki that is already on your skin. A
non-physical attack obviously has no problem going through the qi that flows
on the Lou channels of your skin so why would it have trouble if you
somehow managed to get qi to form a shell around you (just off the
surface of your skin)? It wouldn’t. Then maybe it is for defending against
physical attacks. Sorry, no. Since you aren’t actually building a shield
of qi around you, you wouldn’t stopping anything.





**"Power Up: This technique is as strong as you make it.
Sit down, in your mind and begin to draw in energy all over into all
points of your body. Have your eyes shut and just let energy flow into
you Now do this for however long you wish ( the longer the bigger the
power ) . When you feel that you have as much energy that you want, stand
up and have your head bowed sort of like a dramatic scene. Picture the
worse thing that has happened to you like perhaps a death in your
family and let that get you angry. When you get angry and you know it have
your eyes and face shoot your eyes open and yell letting out that energy
like a flare out which will probably quadruple your power for around 10
seconds or however you hold it out ( do this when your not tired but
hyper for better results )."**

Along with breaking the same rules as the ki blast this one also goes a
step further – just in a different direction then the ki shield. This
technique has you drawing in qi from points all over your body. The
reason this is wrong is that there are certain points on your body where qi
actually flows out from (like the palms and fingertips). Drawing energy
in from points like that will cause stagnation of qi. Qi stagnation is
a very bad thing and can cause severe illness. It also has you to make
yourself feel angry. Working with energy and being angry is bad for the
spirit and can also cause illness and damage to the internal organs.
When do energy practice you will want to be calm and focused, not angry.
Xingyiquan master Dai Long Bang (1750 a.d) echoes these views in one of
his treatises on internal power training:
“Before practice - The stomach should be neither too full nor too
empty, the mind should not be preoccupied with other affairs, do not
practice when angry. When hungry one has no energy, too full and the stomach
will be injured. Extraneous thoughts harm the brain. Anger harms the
spirit.”

The author of this technique also disregards exactly ‘how’ to flare out
the energy (as if one could do such a thing).

Often I hear the radki-ka talk about Jing. Except they seem to have
really bastardized this word. Within the radki community jing is meant to
mean “compressed ki”. This is total crap and anyone with any knowledge
of internal martial arts can tell you otherwise. Jing is a Chinese word
and has two different meanings (a Chinese homonym if you will). In one
sense Jing relates to the three treasures of man and translates to mean
“essence”. It is the primal energy you get from you parents that makes
you, physically you. It is closely related to bodily fluids, especially
semen and menstrual blood. In another sense jing can be seen as meaning
“skillful or refined strength” (as opposed to brute strength). However,
it can also mean “internal strength”, as it has come to be translated
by modern internal martial artists (for good reason I assure you). I,
and many other internal martial artists, translate the word jing both
ways at the same time: jing – “internally refined strength or power”. Any
other translations outside the already established translations of this
Chinese word are incorrect. There is simply no other way of saying it.
We know what the word means and it CANNOT be translated to mean
anything close to “compressed ki”. Sorry, but deal with it.

I think that should just about do it. Feel free to post questions or
arguments.

I'll start the replies by replying to everything published on the
website you got those Radki examples from:

This is my response to
http://www.geocities.com/halos_hideout/What_is_ki.html

Halo wrote:
If you find yourself asking this well it fairly simple in the way you
look at it really . Ki ( chi ) Is the universal spiritual energy that
all living beings pocess .


I prefer to see it on a more realistic level that I learned from Dr.
Yang, Jwing-Ming. Qi is the fundamental stuff of the universe. Everything
is made of matter. Matter is made of energy vibrating at various
frequencies.

Quote:
Me and you both have chi within us and an aura to top it off thats
constantly showing .


According to modern research, Qi is strongly related to bio-electricity
(and I believe that bio-electricity is Ren Qi [human Qi]). Since
bio-electricity does slightly eminate off the body due to nervous activity,
I'll have to agree with you on that aura bit.

Quote:
My dog has a Ki level also since he is a living being .


Yes, all living things do have Ren Qi, but don't let that fool you into
thinking that dead things don't have Qi. The Qi of dead things is
called Si Qi (dead Qi) or Guo Qi (ghost Qi). Since all matter has Qi
(energy) and even dead things have matter, dead beings are not without Qi.

Quote:
Since its a spiritual energy animals can not raise their chi levels...


Wait a minute! I want to once again say that Qi is not spiritual. In
China, electricity is called Dian Qi (electric Qi), the weather is called
Tian Qi (heaven Qi), and heat is called Re Qi (heat Qi). Heat, the
weather, and electricty are not spiritual and you should know that if you
ever listened through your science lessons. Qi is not spiritual. Its
scientific.

Quote:
...because well im Christian and i beleive Humans will only inherit the
Kingdom of God when they pass on . If your thinking that movie " all
dogs go to Heaven " is still real then either your moms been babying you
for far to long or you just got something wrong with you .


Now this is out of nowhere. There is nothing wrong with me and my mom
has not been babying me. I'm just not a Christian and being something
besides Christian is not wrong. Its not like you're one to talk of
maturity, anyway.

Quote:
Anyways Ki is an unlimited power within us since our soul is endless so
is our ki level at all points, even when you dont have anymore your
still alive so you still have some within you .


If you still have some within you then talking about not having anymore
is kind of redundant. As I stated before, even dead matter has Qi.

Quote:
Some people will tell you if you are Christian that this is a tool of
satan like " Witchcraft " or something like that but its not .


Looks like we agree that its not a tool of Satan but we agree for
different reasons. If Qi was Satanic then existance itself would be Satanic
by my logic.

Quote:
Its the energy that allows you to race your friends, get up and go to
school, You use Ki everyday without knowing it.


We agree again!

Quote:
God put this within us and I rather learn to use it then let it just
sit there .


That's a personal belief but I get your drift. Good motivation!

This is my response to the part the Faith page that applies to my life.
You can view this at
http://www.geocities.com/halos_hideout/Religion.html

Halo wrote:
What is Witchcraft ?

its a power of satan thats used for evil and some say its used for good
... But I dont see how Evil can be used for good ... Isnt that self
Contridicting ?


Actually Witchcraft is part of a religion known as Wicca. According to
the rules of Wicca, to actually harm someone with Witchcraft is the
equivalent of breaking one of your Ten Commandments.

Quote:
The controling of another persons will is the art of witchcraft by
Biblical terms . If I force someone to jump off a cliff to thier death is
witchcraft . Just Controling someone aginst thier will is witchcraft .


According to some rituals I have attended, I perceive witchcraft as a
bunch of rituals meant to give thanks to the God and Goddesses that
those people believe in because they believe that it will keep the world in
a natural balance to do so.

Of course, you are a Christian and as far as I know Christians believe
that every other belief in existance is wrong. Please correct me if I
am misinterpreting Christianity.

---------------------------------

This is my response to
http://www.geocities.com/halos_hideout/Energies.html

Quote:
ENERGIES

This place explains all the diffrent Kinds of energy that this world
and some others pocess . use what you will and Please know what is good
and evil of all kinds of energies.

Chi, Ki, = The energy of the spirit which all Living things are blessed
with within this world and outside . ( dosent affect non-living things
. If at a High Energy level from the intensity of the energy it can
affect though, and if Mental and visualization is included then it can
affect non-living thing . )


Qi is the energy of all matter that makes up and powers matter and
matter is what makes up every material thing in existance. Its not a
spiritual energy. Its not something that requires faith and beliefs. Refer
back to m rant on heat, eletricity and the weather!

Quote:
Mana : ( Revised ) This is the energy of the earth which flows through
the earth, its true its used in witchcraft in some forms but in others
its just another energy . When using Mana it helps in-tune us with
nature some say .


What you're thinking of is Di Qi (Earth Qi) which is the magnetic field
of the Earth. This field, through interaction with with other heavenly
bodies, is what creates things like tides. It has nothing to do with
Witchcraft of any type.

Quote:
Light Matter : The energy of the sun . This energy wards of evil and
helps to fight aginst darkness and demons very well when need'd . its so
strong it takes a little while to gather it .


Actually, radiation is the energy of the sun though the presence of the
sun does give off Re Qi (Heat Qi). It has nothing to do with the
fighting off of demons. It has more to do with the revolutions and general
life of our planet.

Quote:
Dark Matter : The opposite of Light matter . This energy is evil right
down to the core . It fills the mind with chaos i beleive or can
corrupt ones self, or possibly take control ... since thers no telling what
evil is capable of these days .


Dark Matter is actually a perpetually dense piece of rock that fell
from space into someone's back yard in northern Indiana between 1994 and
1996. Supposedly it is now being held at Ft. Knox. Its not good or evil.
Its just a rock.

Quote:
Jing : The energy that is within ones muscles and can be squeezed out
during tension . Its created when energy is so compressed it takes form
at times and has weight .


Essentially, without getting into too much detail, Jing is the essence
of humanity. Jing from the mother and father combined is what forms a
human being. It can be conserved through not over-indulging in sexual
activity and refined through different types of meditation in order to
increase longevity. In the martial arts it can be conserved and refined
in order to make your strikes more powerful or for you to project Qi
over a distance after a few years of a special type of training.

Quote:
Shen : Mysterious energy that comes when Limits are broken or when
Limit Breaks are done . When one can harness the abilities of shen then one
is truely mysterious .


Actually Shen is the Spirit. Spirit would happen to be a part of the
mind which resides in the Upper Dan Tian traditionally. The other parts
of the mind being Xin (emotional mind) and Yi (will).

Quote:
Psi : Energy of the Mind . It is the mental capabilities that allow us
to move things with our minds and talk to one another mentaly .


You're actually right about this one. In Chinese the skills from this
would come from a refined Shen, Xin, and Yi.
Burn out

Something that all people who plan to train in chi should know about is
called " burn out " .

BURN OUT : When your body is at such a loss of energy, when you have
used up so much energy you get to the point where you can feel Deathly
Ill .
The way to prevent this is, Befor Sparring or even trainning, do at
least 5 minutes of meditation so you can draw in some extra energy, or do
like i do, use a " Chi Chamber " which is created with the " Chi
Chamber " tech . If you do burn out, the best thing i can reccomend is that
you stay in bed and listen to UpLifting Christian Music something that
will make you happy for about 2 days or maybe 1 day if you cant make 2 .
Do not doubt anything, and do not fear, the burn out will disappear
over a certain period of time . Drink lots of fluids like gatorade and DO
NOT i repeat DO NOT try to do anything not even meditation Until you
are FULLY if not almost completey Healed .


In reality there is no such thing as Burn Out. When you work with your
Qi in a proper manner you can't become burnt out. The only things even
close to this are becoming injured in a fight, not keeping up with your
Qigong or going outside when the weather is too bad for just your Qi
alone to protect you from and becoming sick, or staying awake for too
long and falling asleep so that your body can rebalace itself. What Halo
is basically describing (minus the Christian music) is tips for getting
over the flu.

Kouji's addendum:
Qigong can:
Improve health, increase martial power, increase awareness, increase stamina, make you impervious to cuts and bruises, heal yourself or others...

Qigong can't:
Make you fly, let you shoot beams of light, make you a "Super Saiyan", make you invincible, etc.

http://www.geocities.com/koujiryu/beam.jpg   <----the only beam attack you'll ever be able to do  >:D
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June 27, 2004, 09:20:18 PM
Reply #1

Enlightenment

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already read that, although I am glad you posted that, as I have gotten many a PM, and IMs (aim, msn, etc.) on Radki and whatnot..and how they only wish to do it because it looks cool; hopefully they'll pay attention to this.

oh, and that link doesnt work, Kouj.  It says the picture/page is missing.
En: Get into a class.
Preferably a Hatha Yoga class.
Avoid Yogas
Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
Tsu: No :P
ROFL

June 27, 2004, 11:04:46 PM
Reply #2

Tsumaru

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Because geocities is a bit fackered, you have to copy the URL into a browser address bar and hit enter to view the image properly. You can't just click on the link.

Anyways, thanks for posting this. It's actually got some of the stuff missing from the original though, doesnt it? Not like it really matters, as it covers a good majority of the stuff, though pointing out the stupidity of the "Chi Chamber" technique might have been nice as it was mentioned in Halo's crap in the first place...



AND WTF IS UP WITH THE CHRISTIAN MUSIC?!?!?!?!

Sorry, had to get that out of my system =P

Well, thanks for posting it. Now if I ever come across any RadKiers, rather then flaming them completely, I can send them to this link....and flame them a bit too, for fun =P
don't believe everything you read... especially if it comes from me.

June 28, 2004, 01:35:08 AM
Reply #3

Koujiryuu

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Some people seem to have problems accessing my geocities account...it works fine for myself and others, and for some it just doesn't work period. :/

Tsu, you're correct, there was a 3rd part as well, however I left it out as I figured it was a long enough post already, and illustrated many good points to boot. Perhaps I'll repost it later in the thread.

BTW E, the picture was nothing more than a pic of me Shinkuu-Hadouken'ing Chun-Li in MSHvsSF, on WinKawaks  :D  Basically Ryu doing a humongous blue kamehameha-ish beam attack.
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June 28, 2004, 09:40:57 AM
Reply #4

Enlightenment

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lol, I figured it was either something like that, or those kamehameha drawings of the japanese guy Tsu posted a long time ago; God that was a funny thread, too bad some n00bs were like "omg!!!11!1! I knew it wuz 4 real!!1!11!!!one!!1one!!XD"

and Tsu, as a Christian..I must say...

EVEN I DONT KNOW WHAT'S UP WITH CHRISTIAN MUSIC

Be Well.
En: Get into a class.
Preferably a Hatha Yoga class.
Avoid Yogas
Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
Tsu: No :P
ROFL

June 28, 2004, 12:44:28 PM
Reply #5

mystic

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wow, urm...just wow...
I don't know what is more surprising. That a thread pointing out the flaws in radical chi is on veritas, or that it came from ki-teachings.com, a site that last year, was very fluffy. Talk about irony.
But all joking aside, probably in the winter, when the main content is complete and done again, there is going to be an update to this topic at launch. The topic is nice to point and tell people, bam there is some of the inconsistencies in radical chi practice, but I myself want to hit a broader spectrum with it. I do indeed plan on creating a psychological analysis thereof, plan on hitting up the rest of radical chi techs, and ultimately tell people for freaking sake, when it is all said and done, the ki flame is nothing but a improper kiai.
So, expect a lot coming in the winter. That is all I can say as it relates to plans I have for the site, plans that the admins have for the site, and anything else overall. Nine times out of 10, there will be a lot done...

July 03, 2004, 07:45:53 AM
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Quote from: Koujiryuu

A. The
reason this is wrong is that there are certain points on your body where qi
actually flows out from (like the palms and fingertips). Drawing energy
in from points like that will cause stagnation of qi. Qi stagnation is
a very bad thing and can cause severe illness. It also has you to make
yourself feel angry. W


I seem to remember an article ( the matrix theory) which was never finished/released that had a technique that involved 'spiralling' qi up your arm or something, it was written by Silver i think, is this incorrect then?( I know its out of date now, but i still have it on my pc) i wouldn't be too hard on these guys, simply because veritas used to teach stuff like that, i recall the chi 101 articles having 'chi shields' and 'ki flame's' and even on prophecy's 'spirit dagger' page it had a 'qi flame' tech, though he explained the difference between a rad ki flame and his one (which i think was supposed to have been taken from a shaolin technique and involved breathing in flames or thinking about a flame in your dan tien, in fact i have seen a program in which some sect of bhuddist monks did this and could actually use it as a means of internal heat generation). Anyways, I have tried all the techniques over the past 2-3 years presented by veritas, and as such have made my own judgements about all of them and their uses (in fact i didn't acgree with all of them). Some, have been downright awful, others have been real eye-openers... that aside, I trust the quality of the articles here, and the depth of knowledge has increased, but it wasn't always like that.
...

What im saying is that we should let other sites go through the same phase that this one did, no one came here and told us what we were doing was wrong (unless it all happened behind closed doors), we and the teachers were simply allowed to grow, mature and learn on our own and now we are passing the knowledge onto newbies, but most importantly we are STILL learning. im glad that the veritas staff took a stand on their own website against rad ki and all things fluff, but is it our place to do it somewhere else?
Maybe it is...Maybe not, ah, such is the duality of this online path...
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers... and you've got to make it stop!"
Mario Savio

July 03, 2004, 04:46:55 PM
Reply #7

HADOUKEN

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Why let them go through "phases" when they can skip a step and get it right the first time?

If I were playing Final Fantasy X and I were equipping amor that prevents Sleep by accident when going up against a monster that can turn me to stone, I'd be quite glad if someone told me before it was too late to equip the armor that keeps me from turning to stone because, well, turning to stone isn't a "phase" I'd enjoy going through.

Just because Veritas used to do something wrong doesn't mean that Veritas enourages people to do things wrong now.  This is also true for Ki Teachings.  It used to be the Fluff Capital of OECville but that doesn't mean that it likes sites teaching fluff in the present.
Develop mind and body to enhance the spirit.

July 03, 2004, 05:33:38 PM
Reply #8

Zake

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Argh!  I had a REALLY BIG and INTELLIGENT post here before, all about comparing radchi to psi and arguing how it isn't quite as ridiculous as it seems in a different context.  And its gone!  (Perhaps I deleted it?  Perhaps some totalitarian mod trashed it saying "NO!  Saying semi-nice bits about radchi is NOT ALLOWED!"?  Dunno.)  Now I'm just about annoyed enough to replace it with a SMALL and RANT-PREFACED blurb on its basic points:

The basic techniques described in the above article, while in themselves agreeably useless, are quite comparable to similar techniques in other disciplines, most notably psi.  The obvious example was the "ki shielding" technique, which echoed the common psi technique of shielding to protect from unwanted telepathy, sparring, and so forth.  Looked at this way, radchi seems to be the subject of too much of a hubbub- if radchiers supposed themselves to be practicing a variant of psionics rather than tradchi, perhaps, it would simply be the "fluffy and inevitable" variant, similar to how wicca and new age stuff is to magic.

Not to say I support radchi in the slightest.  I'm simply arguing that its a DBZ-addicts uber-super-n00b version of psi.  And, of course, the more "advanced" radchi techniques are just inexcusable.  So don't flame me!  This was all explained better in the original post.
Act; for the universe will never forget your movement, nor will it ever forgive your stillness.

July 03, 2004, 05:55:25 PM
Reply #9

Mysticus

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I completely agree with Kendamu.

To let the truth be told, my first experiences with the OEC were with rad-ki sites. I'd read everything on rad-ki, and been made all sorts of promises about being able to fly, blast people, and transform into an 'ascended being'. I was around 12 at the time, and highly impressionable - naive if you will. I had watched DBZ, and was amazed and awed at the prospect of becoming as powerful as a Super Saiyan.

I practiced and practiced, and did all of the visualisations, and all of the half-arsed 'techniques' that were supposed to give me such great power. Then, as time went on, I found other sites written by people more enlightened than myself. At first, I discounted it all - I could produce ki-balls, after all! All these people were just trying to rain on my parade, because they didn't believe it - I could do anything if I just put my mind to it - anything was possible, after all!

But I came around to my senses, eventually. The 'advanced techniques' of rad-ki always seemed so out of reach, and despite my unshakeable beliefs in what I was doing, and my best efforts, I couldn't achieve what I was promised. After months upon months of disappointment, I found my answer in Veritas - for every question I had, there was always a sensible answer to be found here.

That was well over 2, maybe even more than 3 years ago. Now I am a diligent practitioner of Zhan Zhuang, am a Martial Artist, and am far more knowledgable about the workings of energy and the body than I was all that time ago. And perhaps most importantly, especially for all of you rad-ki-ers out there, I am far stronger than I ever was when I practised rad-ki.

The fact of the matter is, that while rad-ki may have a few interesting ideas, it just doesn't work. You can become stronger - unbelievably so, and you can attain tremendous levels of skill, speed and power; but only if you work hard, and work at that which is really going to give you the strength you so desire. And that certainly isn't going to be rad-ki.

And if you still don't believe me, then ask yourself this - could you, after years of studying your rad-ki, defeat a Shoulin monk? That would be the ultimate test of rad-ki vs. 'traditional ki', when it is all said and done. And you'd just be plain kidding yourself if you think you could ever beat a Shoulin monk with rad-ki 'skills'.

I do apologise, as that seemed to come out as a bit of a rant, but that was what I needed to say, and I hope that my little testamonial sets straight at least a few of those rad-ki-ers who sorely need a swift kick in the right direction!
"To the doubter, no proof is possible; but to the true believer, no proof is necessary."

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"It's a girl." Midwife at my birth

July 03, 2004, 06:44:12 PM
Reply #10

HADOUKEN

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Argh!  I had a REALLY BIG and INTELLIGENT post here before, all about comparing radchi to psi and arguing how it isn't quite as ridiculous as it seems in a different context.  And its gone!  (Perhaps I deleted it?  Perhaps some totalitarian mod trashed it saying "NO!  Saying semi-nice bits about radchi is NOT ALLOWED!"?  Dunno.)  Now I'm just about annoyed enough to replace it with a SMALL and RANT-PREFACED blurb on its basic points:

The basic techniques described in the above article, while in themselves agreeably useless, are quite comparable to similar techniques in other disciplines, most notably psi.  The obvious example was the "ki shielding" technique, which echoed the common psi technique of shielding to protect from unwanted telepathy, sparring, and so forth.  Looked at this way, radchi seems to be the subject of too much of a hubbub- if radchiers supposed themselves to be practicing a variant of psionics rather than tradchi, perhaps, it would simply be the "fluffy and inevitable" variant, similar to how wicca and new age stuff is to magic.

Not to say I support radchi in the slightest.  I'm simply arguing that its a DBZ-addicts uber-super-n00b version of psi.  And, of course, the more "advanced" radchi techniques are just inexcusable.  So don't flame me!  This was all explained better in the original post.


Radki started out as an experiment.  The basis of everything in Radki was ripped straight from a Psionics site called Active Psy.  After that manual came out and became popular, myself and a few others expanded on that and made what came to be called "DBZism."  Then we made a few changes to distance ourselves from DBZ and we got "Radki."  Because of that, the established practices became known as "Tradki" in the OEC.  Years passed and Radki became very bastardized (not that it was that good in the first place) because new webmasters decided to be lazy and take the very few breath methods we had out of Radki.

All in all, Radki in its experimental form is Psionics mixed with anime made to promise results that can easily turn the tides in combat with power-ups, ki shields, ki punches, and ki blasts.  If you want that kind of combat power, talk to the Psions on this site and see which aspects of Psionics could actually help in combat.  I figure maybe some sort of construct covering the fist with the Programming to make the person feel more pain than there really is should do as well as some shields that make you more aware of a fist flying at you or whatnot when it breaches the shield (kind of like a "Spidey Sense").

Radki/DBZism in its purest non-experimental form is what I practiced.  It was like the experimental form but it had the Buddhist Breath incorperated.  The only reason that ever worked out for me was because I was unknowingly using the power of the Kiai to enhance my strength, state-of-mind, and affect my opponents without actually touching them.  Another thing is that I didn't use the muscle tension that was prescribed for the power-ups.  I found it a waste of time because I wanted to power-up instantly.  Eventually I realized that what I was doing was Kiaijutsu so I stopped doing the Kamehameha hand positions and the DBZ visualizations and just did the Kiai.  That's what I'm still doing to this day (though I think I've advanced quite a bit since then).  So if you like that form of power, read the Kiaijutsu stuff on this site.

What you see as Radki nowadays is just visualizations and hand movements.  No breathing and nothing similar to Psionics.  The current form of Radki is something like "Visualize yourself on fire and you'll be stronger" or "stick your hand out and visualize fire coming out of it and you'll make someone explode."  Just forget that stuff altogether because it'll get you nowhere while Radki in its other two forms may at least allow you to stumble into pure Psionics or real Kiaijutsu.
Develop mind and body to enhance the spirit.

July 06, 2004, 07:20:09 AM
Reply #11

DownRodeo

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Quote from: Kendamu

If I were playing Final Fantasy X and I were equipping amor that prevents Sleep by accident when going up against a monster that can turn me to stone, I'd be quite glad if someone told me before it was too late to equip the armor that keeps me from turning to stone because, well, turning to stone isn't a "phase" I'd enjoy going through.



I think that's called 'cheating'!! :) j/k, think of it this way Ken, when one gows up, one can not simply jump from a child of 1 playing with toys, to an adult acting the age of a 40 year old in a single step, yes by all means children need help, but that help should be in the form of 'scaffolding' guidance, not strict direction, how else will these people be able to learn for themselves when you guys 'pack up and leave', so to speak, like silverdawn said in one of his articles "instead of bringing you the food, im going to teach you how to cook", guide them, but don't force it down their throats, or else they will never learn, simply offer to them WHEN ASKED, because if they come and ask you for knowledge then you know that they are mature enough to handle it and that they have the will and drive to seek out the knowledge that you offer, if you ram it at them they will despise you for it. (maybe... :)) I have seen it before with the likes of 'Ki sanctuary' which simply reverted back to its DBZer ways once left to its own devices.

In conclusion (this being my opionion) help them through this phase (all of life is made up of phases) don't push them out un-naturally.
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers... and you've got to make it stop!"
Mario Savio

July 06, 2004, 11:39:59 AM
Reply #12

Enlightenment

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DownRodeo: ah, I agree SOMEWHAT with you, but...if we never, ever show them before they ask, or before we think they are 'ready' (which could never be, for it is always a thing of opinion), then when will they ever learn?  If they never become interested in this path from their own curiosity (the path of Chi Kung and the martial arts), then how, praytell, how do you expect them to EVER find it if we are not willing to show them the proper way of doing it?

You cannot just place a toddler (the radkier) at a table (Veritas, in this case), and do not point out to them high cubbords (cubbords being the advanced skills) and the lower, more in reach ones (the beginnning skills and information), nor do you tell them food is in there..then they will starve to death, will they not?

it is the same as this path; they will NEVER attain the skills as the toddler will never attain food at that rate.  We must educate them onto the right way, to prevent stupidity (dbz style radki, advanced radki, etc.) to further plague the OEC.

It is my firm belief that one must never have to settle for a way to deal with problems, instead find the source and cure the problem.  We CAN do this if we continue to teach them the proper way.

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Power Yoga, Fitness yoga, Wellness Yoga, Energy Yoga.....
What about NINJA SEX YOGA!!! Is that alright?
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July 06, 2004, 03:04:54 PM
Reply #13

HADOUKEN

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Why does Radki need to exist as a crutch, DownRodeo?  For 5000 years (at least until 1998) people did fine without Radki.  They didn't need some "introductory crutch step" or whatever that messes up your Third Eye Chakra.  I mean, its not like Kiaijutsu is something people have to be "ready to learn."  Its easy enough as is in its basic form.

Radki is useless and doesn't need to exist.
Develop mind and body to enhance the spirit.

July 07, 2004, 03:03:03 AM
Reply #14

Zake

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Radki came from active psy, kendamu?  Interesting.  Out of curiosity, then, how did it get to be considered a ki discipline instead of a psionic one?  I'd have supposed that they would have been quite separate disciplines, especially before the founding of the multi-style meltingpot which is veritas.
Act; for the universe will never forget your movement, nor will it ever forgive your stillness.