Author Topic: Combining IIH and Kabbalah Ritual Magic  (Read 331 times)

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August 23, 2018, 02:45:56 AM
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Swift

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I'm following IIH for a bit less than a year. Recently I stumbled upon book Kabbalah Magic: The Great Work of Self Transformation, and decided to try the Lesser Banishing Ritual of Pentagram (LBRP) as explained in the book Kabbalah Magic.

Also before a few months, I had a chance to skim through One Year Manuel by Israel Regardie. I experimented with Liber Resh vel Helios few times, and whenever I would skip or stop it, it would fire back somehow (psychologically).

Regarding LBRP, It was a really nice experience and gave me some sort of high. I really had no trouble with visualization since I was strict with following IIH. The day after the ritual, I felt a bit more focused, a bit more in control of my thoughts and overall a bit more positive. Nothing huge, I just looked at things a bit differently. It felt like it was something I was missing from IIH. What I was trying to achieve with IIH practices, I didn't even need to try after LBRP, the thoughts/ideas came alone.

Of course, this was the experience of only a few days, who knows, maybe there is some other underlying psychological factor that made me feel that way on those days. I want to say that I'm really attracted to this kind of ritual magic but I also like to practice IIH.

It seems to me that IIH could be more of a complement to ritual magic than anything else. It is like, a firm foundation that has strict guidelines which will keep you grounded, balanced and help you develop your general abilities.

I think they would require a lot of time investment. Nevertheless, I would like to know how can they be combined and if someone was successful. How should one go about prioritizing practices and keep the equilibrium? Thanks!

All the best.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 06:21:28 AM by Swift »

August 23, 2018, 05:34:09 PM
Reply #1

الظلام

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The IIH, if followed all the way through and practiced correctly, will get you immeasurably further than any ritual magic practice.
If you are looking for quicker "results" and more entertaining practices but less potent magical development, then by all means emphasize your investment into ritual magic. However if you have the patience, than emphasize your investment into the IIH instead.
It may take quite some time, but eventually the IIH will put you far past your mere ritual magician.

The reason you feel you are "missing" from the IIH, is because the IIH focuses on reconditioning and developing your spirit from the ground up, instead of throwing you into more entertaining, but also more shallow "magic". It is laborious and drawn out, however it eventually results in faculties and capabilities that blow ritual magicians out of the water. Everything a ritual magician can do, an IIH initiate can do without a ritual and with a quarter of the effort. And when an initiate performs rituals, he does so with far more effectiveness.
However the IIH initiate also ends up putting a vast amount of time on just "development" and has taken years developing the abilities that allow him to exceed his fellow ritual magicians.

If you can be content with quicker but less powerful development, than focus on ritual magic. But if you have the patience for more thorough and potent development, focus on the IIH.

However, I don't see any reason why you couldn't practice the IIH fully, and still practice ritual magic. The exercises Bardon puts you through aren't really that time consuming on a daily basis. They just require unwavering consistency.
Unless you are a very busy man, than you should have plenty of time even with the practices of the IIH on your schedule. But if you are going to do the IIH at all in the first place, do take it seriously, regardless of what other things you do. The IIH is not something to merely do like an occasional hobby, unless you enjoy wasting time and being inefficient in development.

Ritual magic, on the other hand, requires less strict adherence, and will not suffer as dearly from neglect as the IIH will.

August 24, 2018, 09:15:34 AM
Reply #2

Swift

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I am not looking for quick results, only looking for the results. I didn't say that I want to convert from being Bardon practitioner to being ritual magician. I asked if the two could be somehow combined. To which I found the answer, and it is no, they cannot. They cannot because in the book Kabbalah Magic (identical to Golden Dawn system), grades are designed to purposely exaggerate elements, one by one, and by doing that bring the imbalanced characteristics up and force you to deal with them. That is how I see it. You could maybe keep the step 1 & 2, and follow the Golden Dawn system but incorporating anything after step 2 would interfere with your elemental equilibrium. They are 2 almost completely different paths. Trying to follow both path equally would be a disaster. You would need to draw a line where they are not compatible anymore. You could maybe do full IIH and on side do the LBRP and MPR, but that would be all from ritual magic that you can incorporate. Not sure, I'm not expert on mixing different magic systems.

Basically, it is not necessary to combine anything. IIH is a standalone practice book. I just experimented with LBRP just to see what it is. And I had positive effect and wondered if one could be combined with the other and how well would that work out, if it would at all. Also, IIH takes me ca. 1 hour a day.

Your answer is seriously biased towards IIH, and you are also vastly overgeneralizing some things. For you, ritual magic equals quick results, shallow magic, mere ritual magician. IIH initiate can do better than ritual magician and that with quarter of the effort, do you really think that? Initiate? I think that is quite disrespectful to the hard-working ritual magicians. I don't believe that any system of magic is more superior than the other. It is how a magician is using his time. Also, IIH does not get you immeasurably further, you get yourself further by practicing yourself. Being ritual magician or Bardon practitioner will get you nowhere. Your hard work will get you somewhere. Hence, practicing any system could give you similar in kind development, not superior than the other. They just offer a bit different paradigms. Different strokes for different folks.

Nevertheless, thank you for your response.
Best.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 09:19:27 AM by Swift »

August 25, 2018, 03:18:47 AM
Reply #3

الظلام

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To which I found the answer, and it is no, they cannot. They cannot because in the book Kabbalah Magic (identical to Golden Dawn system), grades are designed to purposely exaggerate elements, one by one, and by doing that bring the imbalanced characteristics up and force you to deal with them. That is how I see it. You could maybe keep the step 1 & 2, and follow the Golden Dawn system but incorporating anything after step 2 would interfere with your elemental equilibrium.

That "issue" is hardly an issue at all, with some ingenuity.
If the other system makes you dive into an element at a time, than it would only be necessary to make sure you do each one equally, that way when you finish, you are adept at handling all of them, which should then make it easy for you to achieve equipoise once you are no longer forced to focus on them as individuals.
However, I am not familiar with this system you speak of. If the practice is taught in a way that you are forced to always be out of equilibrium, then I would question the competence of that system. But as long as this process of exaggerating the elements comes to an end eventually, it shouldn't be a problem.

The soul mirrors/equilibrium are not expected to be achieved rapidly, it is expected to take possibly a lifetime or more to perfect.
And on top of that, I don't think you are aware of how flexible our spirit really is. We do not go through our daily lives, even those who have attained equipoise, with a perfect mixture of the elements. Our spirits are constantly flowing from element to element, we do not express each element in perfect ratio.  Indeed you would be surprised how elaborately the spirit can flow between elements. For example, I notice that my own composition flows with the season, generally speaking the fire element is more dominant in the summer, the water element is dominant in the winter, etc.
Despite this, I still have equipoise.
There is a flexibility and resilience to our spiritual composition, and I doubt the practice you are describing will throw that system seriously wayward.

*At this point I decided to try to find an online copy of this book, and I have, so I have skimmed through a large portion. Particularly looking for the grade thing you mentioned.

I am impressed with the book, honestly. Much better than most other ritualistic books I've seen, however there is more to it than just mere ritual anyways.
I did enjoy a lot of the "mythical stories", about the the forces of the universe and Creation, and I like how it explains the birth of the Watchers.
I do think this can be an effective means of initiation into hermetic magic. The way it is set up and the practices contained within it are very interesting.

I do not disapprove of his book at all, however there are still differences and pro's cons' between the two, and there are many things which you said which are... debatable.

First of all, the "exaggeration of the elements" within the "grades", is more passive and philosophical as it is presented. I only read the first 2-3 grades, however I did not see any of these phases structured in a way that would practically harm your attempt to achieve equilibrium with the soul mirrors. If anything, what I saw in that book is merely a structured way to eventually achieve a "soft" form of equipoise.
The only thing that only slightly concerned me was being made to perform rituals dedicated to the invocation of that grade's element, however, you are also tasked with performing banishing rituals, which counter that to a degree.
There is a difference in focus and method between the soul mirrors and what is presented in this book.
Bardon's is on a more personal level, and very direct and and precise. Like throwing you into an arena where you are forced to fight very directly with your composition until victory is achieved.
This book however, is more subtle, more gentle, and develops your spirit in a more passive way that makes it less difficult and more naturally attainable when compared to Bardon's, however it does so at the expense of being less concrete and precise. Bardon's is focused on a very straightforward restructuring of your spirit down to every last quality and emotion you have and express on a daily basis, while this book is focused on how you carry out your life in a more big picture perspective, and focuses on getting the elements to develop in a more general way, which will make it easier to refine more precisely in the future, and encourage your character to develop the elemental qualities naturally over time. It achieves what it intends to well, however I do not think it intended to be as in depth and thorough as Bardon's in the first place.
Anyways, I do not see any major conflict if one were to practice both.

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They are 2 almost completely different paths.

I very much disagree with this. The end goals are very similar, only the methods and priorities differentiate, however even still they work through the same principles and concepts.


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Your answer is seriously biased towards IIH, and you are also vastly overgeneralizing some things. For you, ritual magic equals quick results, shallow magic, mere ritual magician. IIH initiate can do better than ritual magician and that with quarter of the effort, do you really think that?

If being realistic is being biased, than yes absolutely.
This is not a matter of me rooting for the IIH like a football team, this is a matter of simple principle and practicality.

Quite frankly, rituals are a crutch. They are a way of allowing someone to reach a little higher than themselves, and achieve things which they would have difficulty achieving on their own. However ritual magic is an auxiliary which does little to directly develop the spiritual faculties used in magic,  and if practiced alone and relied upon, will do little to actually advance the magician in practical magic. It may allow you to do things which you were not capable of, however, if one never takes the time to train and develop the faculties directly which are relevant to magic, then you will have a hard time moving forward.

So absolutely, those who take the time to develop their faculties as rigorously as is done in the IIH, will end up exceeding those who practice ritual magic alone.

However, I am not saying ritual magic is devoid of benefit or usefullness. I am just saying it is not best to practice it on its own, or at least, not practiced alone for too long before incorporating more complete practice.

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I don't believe that any system of magic is more superior than the other. It is how a magician is using his time. Also, IIH does not get you immeasurably further, you get yourself further by practicing yourself. Being ritual magician or Bardon practitioner will get you nowhere. Your hard work will get you somewhere. Hence, practicing any system could give you similar in kind development, not superior than the other. They just offer a bit different paradigms.

This is... noble i suppose, but not realistic. There is a right way to do things, and there are wrong ways to do things. And there are good ways to do things, but also better ways to do things.
Now, I will not say that any system is without purpose or is useless. Depending on what you are trying to achieve however, there are definitely going to be systems more suited towards your goal, and ones which are not. And there are certainly things some are better at, and things which they are worse at. There are pros and cons to every system.

Now in regards to that book:
I have not read through cover to cover, however if the first half is as similar to the last half, than i would say that it is a good book, which when compared to Bardon's is geared more towards getting the student "on their feet" in a more timely manner, at the expense of depth. I also think it is less difficult, and more accessible to the common man.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Believe me, I like the book. I'm just pointing out that there are differences between what they are trying to accomplish.
Also, I would say that you have two choices which would be most wise, regarding what you should practice:
You should either practice the Kabalah book first, and move on to the IIH after completing it.
Or, you may wish to practice both at the same time.

But that is up to you
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:46:33 AM by الظلام »