Author Topic: Is the Kunlun system compatible with Magick ?  (Read 288 times)

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July 03, 2018, 04:42:36 PM
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purplehaze48

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Hello,

First of all, I've been practicing Bardon's IIH for a couple of years, and I enjoy it.

I know Kunlun methods are a very popular subject and has been discussed many times in many forums, I don't want this thread to feel like "yet another kunlun thread..." and I'm sorry if it looks like that.

Fact is : I love Max Christensen's books, especially the "Kunlun system". This method/meditation has been a "revelation" for me, with more positives than negatives effects. Even 2 minutes meditation has effects on the next day.

From a Bardon's point of view it feels like accumulating a lot of "vital energy" (but without doing anything except holding the position described by M. Christensen), and finally releasing it all at once. Resulting in a big "mental emptiness".
Then, next day, I seem to have "too much fire" : I'm nervous, hyperactive and it's tiring. I also tend to naturally be naturally in the "thougtless meditation" state, which is quite pleasant, when I don't have to do anything.
I'm really interested if somebody can describe what this practice does in a hermetic way of speaking.

Most of the "effects" seems to last like 24 hours after practice.
I have to say, it's "hard" to keep doing it everyday. Even if I have more energy, it's hard for my nerves. I can become a lot more nervous and things in everyday life may seem "too slow". In fact, that's probably because times goes slower when "I'm on Kunlun". I have a lot more time to think and I also have a lot more "physical energy" : doing sport seems easier, for instance I have more stamina when I run.
 
So my question is : in your opinion, will it help practising hermetic magic, or is this just going to slow me down ?

And finally, sorry if my english is not the best :)

July 04, 2018, 02:09:23 AM
Reply #1

Akenu

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Hello,
I haven't heard about Kunlun before, might be interesting to read more about your experiences :).
As for your issue, Magick itself is not some organized system like Bardon's is. There are Bardonians, Thelemites, Golden-Dawnian, and thousands of other systems that all build on one same principle, Magick. From what I have read from you so far, Kunlun has good effects for you, so there is no reason why you should stop, if it gets in disarray with the system of Magick you are following, maybe it's a time to look for a new one :).

July 04, 2018, 07:35:28 AM
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Iatros

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What you are doing sounds fine for the most part, and I also understand your concern. You've already described the problem well from a hermetic perspective - you are working with vital energy which is a little bit to the Fiery end of the elements. You accumulate it and then suddenly expel it all at once, a rather strenuous act.

I do not know how advanced your IIH practice is from what you've said, so forgive me if I'm underestimating your development. But in the early stages of working with "energy,"  it is easy to overwork yourself. Your "nerves" are not accustomed to conducting much more energy than is required for life. There are subtle irregularities,  impurities and injuries that must be worked out, which should happen slowly over time when working with "vital energies" as well as balanced hermetic practices.

The clarity of mind experienced after your Kunlun practice probably results from purification,  in the same way that filling a dirty bottle (your bodies)
 with pressurized hot water (vital energy) will result in a cleaner bottle. It is not mental emptiness, but you perceive mental silence because you are accustomed to unwanted mental noise. This is the obvious advantage of all purification practice.

However,  it is good to be wary, and you have pointed out the fiery side effects of this particular practice (anxiety,  tiredness,  hyperactivity). It could be that your visualization is more fiery than necessary,  in which case, reconsider how you visualize and feel the energy to make sure it is pure, electromagnetic vitality,  and not contaminated with thoughts of an unnecessarily fiery nature.

It is also possible that your practice is a little too intense for now,  and hermetically the problem is caused by a depletion of your water element due to overuse of your fiery capacities.

It is also worth considering that your techniques might be fine but that your internal elemental state is biased towards fire or against water. If this is the case (and few people are elementally balanced early on), it may be more useful to practice something specifically to balance YOUR unique elemental state. Vital energies are more general than specific in this regard.

In short, to correct these fiery symptoms, try:

- Consider whether the vital energy in your practice is truly balanced / electromagnetic, or whether you are imagining unnecessary fiery qualities.

- Reduce the intensity of your practice and proceed a little more slowly. Pay attention to the way your bodies feel during the practice and learn when it is best to stop. Take up a nourishing restorative,  watery practice. Maybe adjust your diet a bit towards the watery end and see if this helps. Try eating oatmeal for breakfast for a week. See if chamomile or lemon balm (my personal favorite) teas help. Drink enough water and get enough sleep.

- Work on your soul mirrors of an equivalent practice, with a focus on cultivating calming,  nourishing qualities such as patience, and ensuring that qualities such as ambition are not subjugating other aspects of your personality.

In conclusion,  hermetic magic and vital energy practices are compatible. They will only slow each other down if your practices are not in harmony with each other, as Akenu said. Thankfully,  Hermetic philosophy is a philosophy of harmony.
"And in this lies my honour and my reward, - / That whenever I come to the fountain to drink I find the living water itself thirsty; / And it drinks me while I drink it." - Almustafa

July 04, 2018, 10:51:25 AM
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Iatros

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Having looked at the Kunlun page for a bit,  Christensen does say that different systems of practice shouldn't be mixed as this could lead to problems (which I accept). On the other hand,  Christensen seems pretty eclectic,  talking about native American medicine traditions, "Egyptian yoga," etc.

I would advise asking someone who teaches the systems in question directly, preferably two people from both systems in order to get the complete picture.

Ideally you will find someone who isn't a zealot or a salesman, and they can tell you how to safely modify your practices if there are incompatibilities. Obviously,  never stop using your own good judgment.

Best of luck.
"And in this lies my honour and my reward, - / That whenever I come to the fountain to drink I find the living water itself thirsty; / And it drinks me while I drink it." - Almustafa

July 04, 2018, 03:50:09 PM
Reply #4

purplehaze48

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What you are doing sounds fine for the most part, and I also understand your concern. You've already described the problem well from a hermetic perspective - you are working with vital energy which is a little bit to the Fiery end of the elements. You accumulate it and then suddenly expel it all at once, a rather strenuous act.

I do not know how advanced your IIH practice is from what you've said, so forgive me if I'm underestimating your development. But in the early stages of working with "energy,"  it is easy to overwork yourself. Your "nerves" are not accustomed to conducting much more energy than is required for life. There are subtle irregularities,  impurities and injuries that must be worked out, which should happen slowly over time when working with "vital energies" as well as balanced hermetic practices.

The clarity of mind experienced after your Kunlun practice probably results from purification,  in the same way that filling a dirty bottle (your bodies)
 with pressurized hot water (vital energy) will result in a cleaner bottle. It is not mental emptiness, but you perceive mental silence because you are accustomed to unwanted mental noise. This is the obvious advantage of all purification practice.

However,  it is good to be wary, and you have pointed out the fiery side effects of this particular practice (anxiety,  tiredness,  hyperactivity). It could be that your visualization is more fiery than necessary,  in which case, reconsider how you visualize and feel the energy to make sure it is pure, electromagnetic vitality,  and not contaminated with thoughts of an unnecessarily fiery nature.

It is also possible that your practice is a little too intense for now,  and hermetically the problem is caused by a depletion of your water element due to overuse of your fiery capacities.

It is also worth considering that your techniques might be fine but that your internal elemental state is biased towards fire or against water. If this is the case (and few people are elementally balanced early on), it may be more useful to practice something specifically to balance YOUR unique elemental state. Vital energies are more general than specific in this regard.

In short, to correct these fiery symptoms, try:

- Consider whether the vital energy in your practice is truly balanced / electromagnetic, or whether you are imagining unnecessary fiery qualities.

- Reduce the intensity of your practice and proceed a little more slowly. Pay attention to the way your bodies feel during the practice and learn when it is best to stop. Take up a nourishing restorative,  watery practice. Maybe adjust your diet a bit towards the watery end and see if this helps. Try eating oatmeal for breakfast for a week. See if chamomile or lemon balm (my personal favorite) teas help. Drink enough water and get enough sleep.

- Work on your soul mirrors of an equivalent practice, with a focus on cultivating calming,  nourishing qualities such as patience, and ensuring that qualities such as ambition are not subjugating other aspects of your personality.

In conclusion,  hermetic magic and vital energy practices are compatible. They will only slow each other down if your practices are not in harmony with each other, as Akenu said. Thankfully, Hermetic philosophy is a philosophy of harmony.

Thank you very much for you very complete answer, I love it :)

On his first book, Christensen talked about level 3 of kunlun as a mental visualisation involving feeling cold water from a distant waterfall in a quiet place... It might be a good way to "cool down the pressurized hot water". Moreover, visualisations capacities are astonishing just after practice.


- First, I think you're totally right about the imagination of unnecessary fiery qualities when I practise.
I also noticed that it works better for me to practise Kunlun in the morning/early morning rather than the evening/night. It might be a temporary "easy way" to reduce the problem.

- I already tried reducing intensity of my practices. It works, but I don't progress as far as I'd like. I'll try to ajust my diet and follow your advices :)

- I might need to work more on my soul mirrors... Even if I made good progress, nobody is perfect and ambition is definitely something I need to work on. You reassure me on many points. Thanks a lot !