Author Topic: My oh my we are a sad little place  (Read 4130 times)

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November 16, 2017, 01:12:52 PM
Reply #30

Akenu

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It doesn't matter. Its all bullshit anyway.

Why are you even bothering to try and sell this crap to me anyway?


I am not trying to sell you anything, I am just wondering. All your previous posts regarding the "meat grinder", "finding what works" and things like that and now you say it's all bullshit. It makes me wonder, can you say it's all bullshit with a full certainty, considering you have actually never tried an authentic system and sticked with it?

November 17, 2017, 05:36:56 AM
Reply #31

Akenu

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Yes. Because all of them are basically the same. It all depends on what decorations you want to put on it. That's it. Every system, every method, equally crap. All of them. Magic is the art and science of self-deception. Plain and simple. Eventually kids grow out of magical thinking, some adults can't. Just because you said some words and did some ritual does do shit in the real work, you just think it does. All those ghost and spirits are just a product of your imagination. Not a single occultist has any actual power. None. There is no God, no salvation, no hope, no reincarnation. No matter what the occultist aspires to it's bullshit. I have become very anti-theist, anti-paranormal, and anti-supernatural.


You don't know that ;-). That's the thing, Chris, you never tried that, you always said "that doesn't work, what I do works", and now you say that nothing works including what you did....


If what you do, didn't work, you would know if you have used proper methods, same as with the PSI wheel, you claim that nothing works, yet I see no actual work on your part. What you say is basically this:


Before
You don't need medicine to cure anything, all you need is green tea
Now
Medicine doesn't work, I tried and the green tea never cured anything for me.

November 17, 2017, 12:43:52 PM
Reply #32

Akenu

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You want to pass the blame on me? Really. It's nothing more than magical thinking. The only model of magick that's correct is the psychological one, because all you're doing is fucking with your head. There is no causal power in using dressed up affirmations and stupid rituals. Saying fancy words and using the imagination doesn't fix any of life problems. All systems of magick are nothing more than mental masturbation.


And you want to blame everyone else for your own failure? If you didn't succeed at something, it doesn't mean it is impossible, it just means you didn't succeed at it.

December 02, 2017, 04:17:42 AM
Reply #33

MikeWho

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Hellblazer, I hate to sound cold and mean, your posts are absolutely useless and pathetic. You haven't given us any thing of value. You've spent years trying to spin pinwheels with your mind, while others are teaching themselves foreign languages, engineering, musical instruments, electronics and even cooking.

If you are speaking the truth, why isn't it giving anyone feelings of inspiration and creativity? I haven't read one post you've made that's concluded with me composing a song...

However, I've studied the Bible and have been inspired to give charity. I've studied the tarot and have felt inspired to write poetry. I've read the grimoires and have been inspired to learn music that has enabled me to pass auditions in universities.

Why am I not getting any inspiration from you? You are so filled with a lack of inspiration and negativity, it's like you're a black hole of creativity and beauty.

Hellblazer, this is an occult forum, take your Nihilism elsewhere.

For the record, I believe we should remove "psionics"  as a study. I believe it might be interesting, but I believe is founded in trickery. It's not even related to magick nor religion, but rather attempts it's own field revolving around controversial "energies" which have no philosophy nor morality nor hierarchy backing their own being. In my opinion there emptiness of mythology proves their use by charlatans.

Even if you study an illusionary magician such as Tarbell, you learn that the practice of the Magi was to only use trickery with the delivery of a parable, so that the lesson would be learned by the students by way of effectively memorable punchline. There was useful philosophy even driving illusion.

Psionics has none of it and is only productive in making Hellblazers.

December 02, 2017, 09:34:44 PM
Reply #34

MikeWho

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The question is, who are you, and why should we give a damn?

December 03, 2017, 12:30:09 PM
Reply #35

MikeWho

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If I've decided to quit practicing magic due to my own personal experiences, then so be it. It invalidates nothing I've said. At least I know that it's real. Too real.

I'm certain that some people have delusions while practicing magic. I'd even argue that with anything involving suggestion, self-hypnosis and meditation will also be a door to opening delusions of grandeur or even insanity. The problem is that we often times are so wrapped up in seeing some sort of effect that we miss everything that is happening around us. The pinwheel doesn't move, and so magic doesn't work. However, disease has crept upon your family and it's shocking. The delusion isn't magic, the delusion is that your lack of awareness of what's going on around you.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 01:33:57 PM by MikeWho »

December 04, 2017, 01:16:47 AM
Reply #36

Akenu

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I'm quite glad I failed at lying to myself. Wish a bunch of other morons would do the same. Maybe we'd move past superstitious wishful thinking. This shit doesn't exist at all. No amount of pseudo science will validate occult stupidity. It's about the most pathetic thing in to world to actually take this crap serious. It really is a shame I wasted so much of my life being apart of it. Bunch of fucked up and useless people in the occult. Nothing but delusional human garbage. I'd say that if you believe in this crap you're an idiot. Time to grow up folks, quite the magical thinking and get own with your life.

The worst thing about the occult communities is the circle jerk they all engage in. Trying to validate empty beliefs, giving their sorry lives some false meaning. Sad, truly sad.


Hellblazer, if you remember, I was always against pseudo-scientific terms in occultism, it is BS, it looks stupid and it makes us look stupid. But I also hate your current behavior, simply because it might mean that Rayn was right.


If you remember, I have always said that anyone can learn Magick, we all have that gift. On the other side, Rayn's theory always was that only individuals gifted in Magick can learn it and now you are playing into his cards.


As for the magical thinking, I know about that, I knew about it for years prior to my start in occultism, I do have some psychology background. I don't get how attaining such information would make you totally invalidate all your prior experiences. It might actually mean that you just failed to have a journal, or, which is worse, you chased just fairy dust all those years...


@Rayn: To be more specific, I have started with Enochian Magick, dabbled a little bit into Hermeticism and Qabbalah, as well and finally landed in Chaos Magick.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 01:54:26 AM by Akenu »

December 04, 2017, 04:31:03 AM
Reply #37

Rayn

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If you remember, I have always said that anyone can learn Magick, we all have that gift. On the other side, Rayn's theory always was that only individuals gifted in Magick can learn it and now you are playing into his cards.

Please do not misrepresent me. I am not sure how I fit into this argument. Technically, I agree with a lot of what HellBlazer is saying, mind you. I am an atheist and I don't believe in magical cosmologies. Furthermore, I don't believe parapsychology presents a convincing objective case. I believe in psi because I am biased due to my experiences. As a result, this board holds nothing for me. I lurk out of boredom. I am responding because I don't like being misrepresented. You believe in magic and I do not. I have no desire to convince you it does not exists, because I am not invested in your personal life. This means there is no point debating things like this. I don't get why you care, to be frank. You believe in magic where it is a big part of your life. Others don't. Get over it.

Theoretically, magic is ambiguous in that it is predicated based on cultural concepts which are largely subjective. To say it differently, what magic is varies from culture to culture; therefore, one cannot establish a consistent definition, and because of this, one cannot establish a theory. This implies that magic has no theory, and because of this, one cannot make precise deductions concerning this. Instead, one has different paradigms concerning magic that are largely subjective and conventional per those cultures.

Precision is pretty much the ability to hit a value, or close to a value, consistently. This is not to be confused with accuracy. Due to the subjective nature of the definition of magic, this implies that one cannot consistently get close to a value; therefore, one cannot deduce anything precisely. This means I cannot make the deduction that only those gifted in magic can learn it, because I cannot precisely define what magic is. Nor can you.

Logically, this also implies that arguments about magic are a wastes of time, because no one can be right. The inability to objectively define what magic is sort of makes it not possible to determine who is right about it. I don't care about magic nor do I care about debates concerning it.

Here is my issue. If you have a pedagogy where the claim is that it will develop psychic abilities, then there should be statistics concerning that. When you deal with induction, particular cases are not enough; rather, you have to show that this thing is likely to work for most people, abstractly, who try this system. You could call that your population. In order to show that for your population, you would need a representative sample and statistics from that sample. You would then need to analyze this data. The issue is not whether or not psychic abilities can be learned for those hypothesis; rather, the issue is whether or not a particular system can teach said abilities. It is an issue with education more than anything, for if a person has a natural aptitude, but the pedagogy was not effective, it would not really develop their abilities regardless. A person who is good with Mathematics still needs to be educated properly, regardless.

In this thread, it seems to be assumed that practicing certain schools of thought of techniques yields results; therefore, HellBlazer has been practicing things wrong or not sticking with things, but no one in this thread really has the statistics to back that claim up. I had the same conversation with kobok about a month ago concerning Dynamic Psi, I think, where he pretty much said with online teaching you have limitations due to operational definitions, a lack of that many teachers making analysis hard, and the inability to control things how he would like where he agreed that there needed to be more testing.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 04:39:46 AM by Rayn »

January 02, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
Reply #38

Searcher2

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Umm, what a sad little place!

I came on here and found it dead, months later I revisit and find this thread part of the reason why the forum is dead. I say this and you say that, read what you said in bold and my argument in red, not that its offering alternatives but I just want to be bigger than you, because if I help or debate principles someone will see me as weak?
I don't follow a god but if we are taking about the colour blue is it relevant, no not really. I must agree with Hellboy that no system works but I would add a rider to that to say 'No system works, it is what you put in that makes it work and therefore no system is better than another'.
In many ways J K Rowland is brilliant because she obviously knows things around this kind of knowledge but she does the practice no good because of the for entertainment aspect which stays in the physic mind. Personally I think its all in the mind but to coin a phrase from J K R "who knows if it is real or in the mind but whos to say it is not real even if it is in the mind?"
Another film I watched recently is the miracle on 42nd street. the final gist is Can I believe in santa clause. With out bold bit on me, we all know its made up but I still believe in santa, why: because it makes me feel nice thinking that there is or was such a person.
If you remember back I always say that I believe in the power of the mind and that if collectively everybody thinks theres a santa then a santa will be created.
So has this forum died, pity but I think it may have done with all that it is left is for the ones who are argumentative and who want their beliefs to be top dog or the abdicators who want to tell all that they are going but hang around to say this at every turn.
My last thought of the day is: Porno chat lines are manned by the over 60s, some male some female but everybody thinks they are chatting to the lustful young person of their needs. Always be sure you know exactly who you are learning/getting excited by because they may not be what or who you think they are. If moneys involved back off and always use a VPN

Regards Searcher

January 24, 2018, 06:27:17 PM
Reply #39

Kemetin

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I don't care about magic nor do I care about debates concerning it.

For something you don't care about, and don't care to debate about, you seem to invest a fair bit of energy into thinking, talking and debating about it :p


January 25, 2018, 08:47:11 AM
Reply #40

Rayn

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For something you don't care about, and don't care to debate about, you seem to invest a fair bit of energy into thinking, talking and debating about it :p

Yes, I have thought about it, but not for the reasons you might think. I have the ability to interact with the world in ways to get information and manipulate the world outside of means that are abstracted as physical in various ways and various applications. Abstractly, that is referred to as psi, but I disagree with a lot of how it is currently studied. To say it a different way, when studying say whether or not someone can sense information from a location or whether or not someone can sense information about a thought or whether or not someone is sensing the future, you empirically get a redundancy which makes it ambiguous to determine where the information came from. That sort of points to the same thing doing it where the application is different. When someone says they are doing geokinesis, atmokinesis, hydrokinesis, so on and so forth, they typically get yelled at and are told it is all psychokinesis. Psychokinesis is thus an abstraction for all those other things. You can discuss it abstractly in such a way that a lot of those redundancies are eliminated, for there is nothing wrong with saying geokinesis other than it is redundant. The point is that with telepathy, psychokinesis, precognition, so on and so forth, you see similar redundancies, so I disagree with how these things are conventionally discussed. With that being said, I think the whole "system" needs a re haul. 

With getting that out of the way, I have a large amount of ability that is innate and seems to mature. While I do have roughly 21 years of experience and practice with this stuff, it seems as if my abilities grow on their own. I have not plateaued in other words. So, I had a large amount of raw ability without being taught. And, as I get older, that ability increases even when I am not learning anything or practicing anything. I just recently discovered that I, apparently, can now sense information off of computers in similar ways I sense information from people's minds. If I take an abstract view of psi, then it makes sense in that when I sense a person's memories, I am looking at the information physically in their brain on an abstract level so as I perceive thoughts and not say neural pathways so the same would hold true for say computers.

I have no evidence for it being directly genetic, though I believe they play a role in how things are implemented. For example, I am a highly intuitive person which plays a role in how I implement my abilities where that was inherited from my mother. I do have evidence for it being heredity, though, not all "inherited" things need be genetic. An abstract example is race. Race is not genetic, but it is an abstraction that says it is inherited; therefore, people inherit their race. If I view it abstractly, I can ignore the mode for right now. So, I am taking an anthropological look at things where I am looking for stories about people who have done extraordinary things where people think of them as magical. To be frank, I think the systems are shit, but I am just attempting to do a broad mapping, maybe.

As a person, I am very impulsive and whimsical. I have a bad temper. I use my abilities to get money, get the jobs I want, make everyone else stuck in traffic while I am not. When I meet you, I am likely reading your thoughts and judging you based on every single one. I am currently practicing on manipulating electronic systems to try and figure out how to change the amount of money in my bank account where I don't care that it is unethical(the issue of course is getting the money out of the account). I am an asshole. The only reason why I have not messed up people's stuff online is because I can't justify the amount of effort it would take to impact someone who is irrelevant to my life. With that being said, I don't think my abilities are linked to my "spiritual" and "moral" development, they grow on their own, and I can't make a general statement that any system I have used actually works. I can say it works for me but that is only one particular case and not most people who would try methods that I use.   

Anywho, words like physical and non-physical are just nice little abstractions. When I say something is physical, I am pretty much encapsulating whatever dimensions I am talking about. By dimension, I am pretty much referring to categories where changes in one category does not necessarily change the other such as a person's age and weight. Age and weight are independent of one another, but you can describe a person by their age and weight. The point is pretty much, abstractly, there is nothing mystically significant about things that are "non-physical" where it pretty much is simply higher dimensional. People assume mystical things about it are true due to it seeming as if fundamental properties are phenomenological. For the record, I am not using higher-dimensions a buzzword. I am using it within the context of a table of tables, pretty much. What I do deals a lot with math and abstractions upon abstractions upon abstractions, so I have become very familiar with these concepts. Technically, a construct is nothing more than higher-dimensional technology(it is a created tool to do something/solve a problem and it exists on a higher dimension where that dimension is an abstraction of the dimensions we are used to living in). It does not need to be regarded superstitiously. In short, I piss on your superstitious, magical systems. Yes, I spend a lot of time thinking about my abilities. Yes, I research magical systems from an anthropological sense. The whole energy thing is dumb too, for energy is actually an abstract scalar quantity. Pretty much if I have something and it moves from there to there, it is displaced, and when you do things like say look at its derivative, you actually end up with things like how it changes. Well, that is abstractly energy in the sense of things changing(notice the word abstractly in that we can't exactly model it as an analog to physical energy due to dimensional/symmetry issues making it so you don't get a conserved value that represents an orientation of a system). I don't need to subscribe to some idiotic, esoteric vitalistic bullshit to understand that concept. Clever usages of Calculus are more than enough. The analog to physical energy a lot of dumb mystical systems has is missing an important component of temporal invariance, rotational invariance, and I believe translational invariance in such a way you don't get conservation which gives the proposed energy meaning as an abstract scalar. Think of it in the sense of having a budget, which is abstract, where you can spend that money. Same concept. The systems don't work in theory.

My research has not stopped. I am doing cool things like looking at how manipulation of random events generated from entropy produced by biological ecosystems(like aquariums) impact that ecosystem. I am looking at how cultural populations can be influenced with psi by using Twitter API's as a means to measure and algorithms I designed to analyze. If you guys want to contemplate your navel, have at it. I just got tired of trying to convince people of what is possible.  Poo poo on my science all you want, but I am doing some really neat things.

You also seriously overestimate the effort it takes to reply on a forum. I am a naturally wordy person, so it is not some extraordinary effort on my part. You should see my Facebook replies. They are even longer than this.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 01:33:27 PM by Rayn »

February 04, 2018, 04:59:47 PM
Reply #41

Kemetin

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You also seriously overestimate the effort it takes to reply on a forum. I am a naturally wordy person, so it is not some extraordinary effort on my part. You should see my Facebook replies. They are even longer than this.

Sorry but nope, you don't get to write 1300 words about how much you don't care about something. That's a performative contradiction.