Author Topic: Question about IIH`s thoughtless meditation.  (Read 606 times)

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May 03, 2017, 12:45:17 PM
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midori

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Honestly speaking Im not sure what does Franz Bardon mean in the step 1.
Does he mean a thougthless meditation with a focus point (like listening to my breathing or heartbeating, focusing on the darkness of my eyelids)
or he means a thoughtless meditation without any focus?

Thank you for the answers

May 04, 2017, 08:44:35 PM
Reply #1

Rawiri

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Do you mean the last part of mental step I?

In the last part, he means a thoughtless meditation without any focus at all.

May 06, 2017, 01:04:42 AM
Reply #2

IIHbuddy89

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Quote
In the last part, he means a thoughtless meditation without any focus at all.

'Wroong' ~ (in Trump's voice)

The focus is between the pause/silence of two thoughts, you still have to focus!

You focus on this emptiness of mind and you try to stretch the time spent in this thoughtless state.

May 07, 2017, 01:22:06 AM
Reply #3

Rawiri

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'Wroong' ~ (in Trump's voice)

The focus is between the pause/silence of two thoughts, you still have to focus!

You focus on this emptiness of mind and you try to stretch the time spent in this thoughtless state.

Perhaps strictly speaking there is still a focus.

But you are dealing with an OP who was having difficulty understanding Bardon and who evidently does not have English as their mother tongue - from the name I will presume Japanese (or some other non-native who is fond of Japan).

You might note I mirrored the wording they used for their second choice (of two, with all the other use of "focus" being on a physical concern). It was deliberate.

Detailing such trivialities could just lead to more confusion in such a case...and they will inevitably be discovered by someone who involves themselves in the exercises anyway.

May 22, 2017, 10:23:57 PM
Reply #4

IIHbuddy89

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Well in my opinion it's important to point out that you still have to focus (as Rawn Clark pointed out also in his commentary), since there is a difference between meditation and relaxation.

Meditation can be relaxing but you always focus your attention to something while meditating (even on nothingness/emptiness).

For relaxation you literally don't have to focus to anything just enjoy the experience.

October 18, 2017, 05:51:06 PM
Reply #5

drm

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I think he may be talking about a different type of thoughtless meditation. Different in nature and experience from that of the first two. After achieving the silence and stillness that comes naturally from thought control and the intense focus that comes from thought discipline, you should then gain the ability to completely still your mind at will.

An analogy that has always worked well for me is a common one; the waters of the mind. Thought control teaches you to restrain from constantly disturbing the waters of the mind, thought discipline teaches you to restrain from disturbing the mind, even in your daily life. While, thought mastery is only achieved when you can reach into your mind with your will and imagination and consciously will it to be completely still.

At first you will only be able to do this for a short time but as you practice you will be able to maintain it for longer and longer. I imagine the ultimate goal for most magicians would be to exist in a constant state of natural stillness; only periodically using the will when the mind acts up. Thus, both the natural stillness of regular thought control/discipline and the power of will-based thought mastery make up all the magician should ever need to manage the mind.