Author Topic: About my work with psionics, a little help required  (Read 824 times)

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July 19, 2016, 11:22:50 AM
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Zuka

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Hello, fellow members!
I have been a silent reader for a quite amount of time and read through all topics and had many theoretical thoughts about psionics. A main problem for me so far was to actually "invest" practical time (which is the A and O) into this kind of stuff, for one, because I have had many doubts that this actually works and had the fear of wasting my time and because I wasn't quite sure how to start.

Since a while I have been studying a lot of philosophical ideas, ranging from plato 'till many philosophies from the age of Enlightenment. This is where I learned about the philosopher "Kant" and started studying his works; Later I read a few magic theories based on Kants theory, which made a lot of sense and don't just build up on speculation. Because my English is horrible, it's nearly impossible to me to describe any ideas of Kant and how it goes well with the ideas of magick and psionics. I'm from Germany and so I literally have no idea how to translate Kant words in proper English without destroying the meaning. Anyone who ever read Kant, knows that he's not that kind of literature you see every day. It took me a long time to fully understand his words and I needed to have 2-3 books + explanations to several things to what Kant have said.

My problem however isn't Kant. The theoretical concept is clear to me, since a while. The problem is the practical part with psionics

From what I understand of Psi so far:
- Psi is something that alters information to alter where (physical) energy will be to do psychokinesis. Where (physical) energy will be is statistical, in the sense of it being in a certain time, space and state. -- There is probability tacked on it. So, if I want to do "telekinesis", I would manipulate the probable location of physical energy. At least that's what I think how it works.

Now, from what I know, Psi is not something that can be physically measured (except for the physical effects caused by this unknown force), so consequently it has to be something that it is outside of space and time respectively is beyond these both pure forms of intuition. (Kant calls them like that)

In practice, I would, if I were to use psi in telekinesis, do the following:
1. I gather information from the target object to "reconstruct" it in my mind, including the action (moving forward).
2. I kind of funnel all of that information and try to hold it
3. This funneled information kinda acts as an intentional aspect. So, a part of me, that is not my brain, holds that funneled information.
4. Then I wait for feedback of result and associate an internal experience with feedback so that when you consciously want to do it, you just reach for those states of experience.

So, if I were to answer the question how one would manipulate the probable location of the physical energy in order to move an object without using any physical vehicle (hands, feet, etc.), my answer would be: Having the intention which teleologically describes the state. And this is done by matching internal experience with clear feedback of result. If I'm wrong on this, please correct.

Ok, so how exactly would this look like in practice? From so what I understand I would make a kind of copy of the action I want to reach in my "soul" (or whatever name for it), so my soul itself represents those state of affairs, like that a part of me, in essence, becomes that state, right?

I know, it's hard describing intuitive forms of knowledge (like how it actually "feels" when moving an object by telekinesis), but it would be nice if some could find a way to explain it.

-Zuka-

July 19, 2016, 01:48:01 PM
Reply #1

Steve

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Aaah, so that's where Rayn is getting his ideologies from. Kant.

The biggest problem I see is that you're describing theory, but you're not describing an actual practice that you do. As a parallel in martial arts, the theory would talk about impulse/momentum and forces and energy and directions and whatnot, but the practice would be "stand straight up, spread your legs apart as so, twist your hips like so, puts your arms up like so, then move the left like so while moving the right arm like so, and then move them like this to reset your position. Now repeat the motions."

I would strongly suggest reading Kobok's articles because they have practices to perform, and his ideas still seem very much similar enough to Kant's ideas, so it should be easy to follow (Kobok may use somewhat different jargon, however).

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,4867.0.html Focal meditation. One of the most basic practices for you to perform.
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,4868.0.html Introduction to Kinetics. Has a practice for attempting to do what you asked, but more directly than "information based".

There are more articles available, but start with those practices first. In my opinion, practice will always be worth more than theory, though theory still has value.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

July 19, 2016, 02:57:14 PM
Reply #2

Zuka

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Aaah, so that's where Rayn is getting his ideologies from. Kant.

Mh, that's possible. But from what I've read from him so far, I think he wasn't really a Kant fan or at least he's not fully agreeing with him; (looking at the objectivism replies by him, it more reminded me of Ayn Rand (maybe Rayn is a word play or somehow referring to Ayn Rand? I have no idea), which you could describe as the exact opposite of Kant philosophies)

Quote
The biggest problem I see is that you're describing theory, but you're not describing an actual practice that you do. As a parallel in martial arts, the theory would talk about impulse/momentum and forces and energy and directions and whatnot, but the practice would be "stand straight up, spread your legs apart as so, twist your hips like so, puts your arms up like so, then move the left like so while moving the right arm like so, and then move them like this to reset your position. Now repeat the motions."

I know what you mean; So far I have been a theoretician, as you could read. My main problem is that I have doubts that (should I invest my time into this) all future (upcoming) practical work to this could be a waste of time; like if I invest now 5 months training for this or even a year, just to discover later that all of this doesn't work.

Quote
I would strongly suggest reading Kobok's articles because they have practices to perform, and his ideas still seem very much similar enough to Kant's ideas, so it should be easy to follow (Kobok may use somewhat different jargon, however).

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,4867.0.html Focal meditation. One of the most basic practices for you to perform.
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,4868.0.html Introduction to Kinetics. Has a practice for attempting to do what you asked, but more directly than "information based".

There are more articles available, but start with those practices first. In my opinion, practice will always be worth more than theory, though theory still has value.

Thank you, I will look into and hopefully motivate myself to do the practice.

-Zuka-

July 19, 2016, 03:45:37 PM
Reply #3

Steve

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Aaah, so that's where Rayn is getting his ideologies from. Kant.

Mh, that's possible. But from what I've read from him so far, I think he wasn't really a Kant fan or at least he's not fully agreeing with him; (looking at the objectivism replies by him, it more reminded me of Ayn Rand (maybe Rayn is a word play or somehow referring to Ayn Rand? I have no idea), which you could describe as the exact opposite of Kant philosophies)
Okay. I saw you using many of the same words and basic concepts as Rayn throws around, so I just assumed. I've been reading up a bit about Kant here http://www.iep.utm.edu/kantmeta/ and not really seeing the connection anymore, so I was starting to wonder about that. Thanks for clearing it up.

My main problem is that I have doubts that (should I invest my time into this) all future (upcoming) practical work to this could be a waste of time; like if I invest now 5 months training for this or even a year, just to discover later that all of this doesn't work.
That is pretty much true of any practical work we do. On an even higher level, I've been fairly stalled in what to do with my life in general because of this question: I could start putting my time and effort towards any number of different roads, but then how stuck will I be in that road if I find that it's not what I wanted? How far do I have to go down that road, how much time, effort, and resources do I have to invest, just to find out it's not where I want to be? And in doing so, will I be making it so that I cannot realistically start down another path that I want to try out because I've run out of time, energy, or resources? How much time should I spend looking at various possible roads from their road-maps before I decide to start going down one and seeing for myself where that road takes me? (granted, I used to be a little adventure bug when I was younger, so I used to run down road after road to see where they went, got bored of them, then jumped to the next road. I've already been down so many of the simpler paths that I want to try out some of the much longer and complex ones to see what rewards they bring)

All of these questions have answers to them, though the feeling beneath them does not have an answer, yet I will still have to deal with it in some way anyway. I can definitely say that spending time doing breathing exercises, by way of qi gong, is entirely worthwhile and leads to very direct and discernible health benefits that can stick with you for your whole life :) And qi gong practices are similar enough to be a great way to break into the "strictly psionic" practices if you don't feel motivated to practice those alone.


EDIT:
Quote
- Psi is something that alters information to alter where (physical) energy will be to do psychokinesis. Where (physical) energy will be is statistical, in the sense of it being in a certain time, space and state. -- There is probability tacked on it. So, if I want to do "telekinesis", I would manipulate the probable location of physical energy. At least that's what I think how it works.
Regarding that, I'm not a fan of the information ideology. I prefer to use and understand "metaphysical abilities" in parallel to how I interact with the physical world, and view "altering information" to merely be a metaphor for proper manipulations as the ideology ignores the underlying mechanics. For instance, if I reach out my hand to pick up a cup in front of me, I could totally describe that as altering the information about where the physical energy is, because I'm using my own hand to add and manipulate energy; for the most part, however, we don't describe picking up a cup in terms of information manipulation because we can clearly see the underlying mechanism for what caused the cup to move.

In terms of psi, we cannot see the underlying mechanism and so we make a number of assumptions about it: don't be afraid to challenge some of your assumptions, and be fluid in your practices :)

~Steve
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 03:54:39 PM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?