Author Topic: Why are psionics (or any other system) so hard to learn or use  (Read 1550 times)

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June 16, 2016, 03:13:40 PM
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Xenophon

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I thought that because there are 7 billion people on Earth is it because most of them dont belive in paranormal that they interfere and obstruct etc whatever paranormal effect (ex. psychokinesis) you attempt to cause? An analogy in some global effect is that with thousands of voices yelling "Its impossible" and other stuff about their life and one voice says "Move, pen" over and over that voice cant 'be heard by pen for it to move' because of all other stuff going all over from other people (not mentioning it also requires more than 100% of focus from whoever is trying to move it)? Or better analogy would be that a single modulated EM signal cant be heard through all random jamming from other sources which there are many more of than actual transmitters who try to send something 'real' so even if you are doing something right whatever you are trying to do 'cant receive you'?

If everyone on Earth belived in it (not saying there is any way to make that heppen) would it be easier to 'move something with your mind' or even almost ridiculusly easy to levitate a building as it is to move your hand? Would not even children be able to use PK from early age because of all outside influences by people already doing it (they didnt know they could walk once, and they see other people walking so they start walking themselves) since people have legs they can walk since people have a soul they can kinet?

Seems to me according to this if people ever get more than 50% of population to belive and use psionics it would become impossible not to be able to do it through same effect (more voices saying its possible than those saying its impossible minus internal beliefs).

June 19, 2016, 07:20:36 PM
Reply #1

Iatros

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There is evidence from parapsychological studies that what you are saying is true: belief in paranormal phenomena is conducive to those phenomena occurring, and to practitioners of "paranormal" disciplines successfully producing those phenomena. This effect goes beyond the normal effects of biased scientists expecting one outcome over another - it actually seems that scientists psychically influence the studies that they conduct according to their beliefs. Obviously this is troubling to everyone in the scientific community because the point of science is to gain knowledge in spite of false preconceptions.

Anyways, the problem with your post is that most people actually do believe in the paranormal, either in the form of religion (Miracles? Talking to gods and angels? Intercessory prayer? Faith healing? Survival of the soul after bodily death?) and the rest are well acquainted with the feeling of being stated at and the likes, even if they haven't had other common and secular paranormal experiences like small scale telepathy, empathy, clairvoyance or precognition. Here's some evidence.

So the problem appears to not be that a consensus exists that paranormal things aren't real which inhibits the occurrence of paranormal events. This DOES happen sometimes, but can't realistically be blamed for anyone's failure to, say, light up a lightbulb by will alone.

The truth is that psionics and internal energy use and magic etc. are skills that need to be consistently practiced for success in all but very rare circumstances. This is true in the same way that a violinist who has only played for one year probably sounds horrible, and a first year medical student wouldn't be trusted to perform surgeries. Except that in the case of the arts covered by Veritas, the energies and tools are largely invisible and intangible without training, unlike violins and bodies. Furthermore, while the rise of scientific method during the Enlightenment did wonders for arts like medicine, anything smacking of religion and the supernatural was regarded with extreme skepticism in the West as a reaction against an overpowered Church, and so the advances of science were largely withheld from "paranormal" disciplines. Even today those disciplines are attacked constantly by rather unscientific pseudo-skeptics, and it is extremely difficult to make a living as a parapsychologist, much less to be taken seriously as one no matter how rigorously scientific your methods are. Here's more info on that.

In conclusion, practice intelligently and consistently and you will be successful despite the world's closed-mindedness... And maybe one day your success will open others' eyes!

Best of luck.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 07:26:35 PM by Iatros »
"And in this lies my honour and my reward, - / That whenever I come to the fountain to drink I find the living water itself thirsty; / And it drinks me while I drink it." - Almustafa

July 01, 2016, 04:23:03 PM
Reply #2

Xenophon

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What I meant by people beliving in paranormal isnt their belief in God or supernatural but in that what they belive in cannot include psionics. For example a Chrisitan might belive in God and Jesus and all written in Bible and allow for things such as miracles to happen but it is very specific about it, nowhere in his or her belief does it allow just about anyone to levitate something with their mind, therefore interferring with Psion's belief that soul can do anything it wants (ex. levitate a glass of water) and as a lot more people belive in something which cannot support psionics (even if it is paranormal) and what Psion is trying to accomplish it actually messes Psion's attempts to kinet something.

July 05, 2016, 03:26:28 PM
Reply #3

Steve

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Xenophon: Well, those people need to read the bible a little better, as the bible does state that magic is real, and provides examples (bolded so you don't have to read the context if you don't want to)

Quote
Exodus 7:
8 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 9 “When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Perform a miracle,’ then say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh,’ and it will become a snake.”

10 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake. 11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs. 13 Yet Pharaoh’s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.

14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Pharaoh’s heart is unyielding; he refuses to let the people go. 15 Go to Pharaoh in the morning as he goes out to the river. Confront him on the bank of the Nile, and take in your hand the staff that was changed into a snake. 16 Then say to him, ‘The Lord, the God of the Hebrews, has sent me to say to you: Let my people go, so that they may worship me in the wilderness. But until now you have not listened. 17 This is what the Lord says: By this you will know that I am the Lord: With the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water of the Nile, and it will be changed into blood. 18 The fish in the Nile will die, and the river will stink; the Egyptians will not be able to drink its water.’”

19 The Lord said to Moses, “Tell Aaron, ‘Take your staff and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt—over the streams and canals, over the ponds and all the reservoirs—and they will turn to blood.’ Blood will be everywhere in Egypt, even in vessels[a] of wood and stone.”

20 Moses and Aaron did just as the Lord had commanded. He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.

22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts, and Pharaoh’s heart became hard; he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said. 23 Instead, he turned and went into his palace, and did not take even this to heart. 24 And all the Egyptians dug along the Nile to get drinking water, because they could not drink the water of the river.

There are a handful more examples, but these should suffice.

EDIT: Although, actually Iatros is right in that the majority of people, including christians who "don't" believe in magic, do believe in paranormal/supernatural stuff to some small degree (usually small enough that it gets called superstition, though). Also, as Iatros says, it is a skill that needs development; we wouldn't magically become kung fu masters just because the majority of people believe in kung fu, right? ;)

~Steve
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 03:30:45 PM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

July 06, 2016, 03:09:46 PM
Reply #4

Hellblazer

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You haven't developed your imagination enough to engage confirmation bias.

July 06, 2016, 09:31:22 PM
Reply #5

Xenophon

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Xenophon: Well, those people need to read the bible a little better, as the bible does state that magic is real, and provides examples (bolded so you don't have to read the context if you don't want to)

Quote
Exodus 7:
8 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 9 “When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Perform a miracle,’ then say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh,’ and it will become a snake.”

10 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake. 11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs. 13 Yet Pharaoh’s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.

14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Pharaoh’s heart is unyielding; he refuses to let the people go. 15 Go to Pharaoh in the morning as he goes out to the river. Confront him on the bank of the Nile, and take in your hand the staff that was changed into a snake. 16 Then say to him, ‘The Lord, the God of the Hebrews, has sent me to say to you: Let my people go, so that they may worship me in the wilderness. But until now you have not listened. 17 This is what the Lord says: By this you will know that I am the Lord: With the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water of the Nile, and it will be changed into blood. 18 The fish in the Nile will die, and the river will stink; the Egyptians will not be able to drink its water.’”

19 The Lord said to Moses, “Tell Aaron, ‘Take your staff and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt—over the streams and canals, over the ponds and all the reservoirs—and they will turn to blood.’ Blood will be everywhere in Egypt, even in vessels[a] of wood and stone.”

20 Moses and Aaron did just as the Lord had commanded. He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.

22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts, and Pharaoh’s heart became hard; he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said. 23 Instead, he turned and went into his palace, and did not take even this to heart. 24 And all the Egyptians dug along the Nile to get drinking water, because they could not drink the water of the river.

There are a handful more examples, but these should suffice.

EDIT: Although, actually Iatros is right in that the majority of people, including christians who "don't" believe in magic, do believe in paranormal/supernatural stuff to some small degree (usually small enough that it gets called superstition, though). Also, as Iatros says, it is a skill that needs development; we wouldn't magically become kung fu masters just because the majority of people believe in kung fu, right? ;)

~Steve

I think most people only belive in things like Jesus' ressurection 10 commandmends and all "important" stuff in Bible without even reading it completely (or at all) all their lives and just go to church etc (which by the way has nothing to do with religion and only exists because priests took advantage of peoples fears to profit for thousands of years already) celebrate Christmas (in wrong time of year and wrong way). Or they dont even belive it and just do all that from fear of punishment.

Also having trouble beliving everything from a book written 2 thousand years ago exactly as it is written (no offense), in beginning it was all hear-say until they started writing it down and a lot could have been lost in translations from languages back and forth for 2000 years of languages developing changing and such (hebrew latin english etc) a lot could have been rewritten as only people who were capable of writing for hundreds of years were only privilaged ones (rich...) who may have wanted to keep important information such as how to levitate something or anything leading to such power or existence of such a power itself a secret if it was even written in the first place.

And thats just  Christians, there are also atheists agnostics who only interfere with psionics if thats how it works (everyones beliefs effecting abilities) and a lot of other religions and personal beliefs people have which I dont know if they include psionics as something possible or not and even people that do can belive psioinics are something hard to do and even further weaken your abilities near themselves. Maybe even conflicting beliefs between two people that belive and practice paranormal can interfere with each others abilities...

Also I didnt say everyone would instantly be able to do 'magic' if everyone belived in it, I said it would be a lot easier though, especially if they saw it happening all around them all time. (not to mention advantages in training from better understanding of how paranormal works).

About kung fu analogy.. kung fu is just a different way of doing something we already know how to do (move body) in complicated and effective ways. In paranormal (to oversimplify) you move your soul, which most people dont even know exists or how to control it their entire lives or even comprehend how unlike anything they have ever expirienced it is.
In another oversimplified explanation its like people who live in 2 dimensional world trying to understand a 3 diminesional object without leaving 2 dimensional world and even that is not as a big of a difference as soul is to what they know about (physical).
Its easy to manipulate something obvious to you (body) compared to manipulating something you cant even imagine (soul). But if soul were "obvious" to people maybe it would be as easy to learn how to move your soul as learning how to move your body.

Kind of makes more sense now why people sometimes leave civilization to learn this stuff...

You haven't developed your imagination enough to engage confirmation bias.

What do you mean? I practiced psionics before and am still not sure if I did anything or not. My imagination might be a bit... weak as I was trying to understand how it all works without practicing enough for years... now I feel like Im stuck not being able to do anything until I "crack it" or someone levitates something in front of me to restore beliefs I dont even know I am missing. Not sure if one lifetime is enough for first option though... and more Im trying to "crack it" more difficult it becomes to practice (at least for now)

July 07, 2016, 04:18:20 PM
Reply #6

Hellblazer

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Magick, psionics, energy work, etc is nothing more than a trick of the mind. A way to program confirmation bias. Sometimes seeing results where there are none. Not only this also triggering some cognitive bias. It's all psych tricks. Just programming your subconscious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking

The thing about energy work is that it's purely a psychosomatic (mind-body) response. With enough effort you can make 'energy' feel like whatever you want it to. A construct is just a belief, a constructed thought. If accepted it will affect the subconscious, thus changing your perception of reality.

Metaphysics have a huge problem with false positives. As there is no mechanism within us that allows us to 'bend' reality through will alone. We just think we do because of confirmation bias. To be honest outside of manipulating the conscious, it's all bullshit.

Of course there are going to be those here who will disagree and I could care less. The final choice is yours as to what you choose to believe. Think that you have 'special powers' or accept the power to program yourself.

You are pure consciousness being feed information about reality through your sense, with the right knowledge you can filter reality through yours sense according to your will. Toss aside the fantasy and you reality that your just a mind hacker.

July 07, 2016, 04:48:58 PM
Reply #7

RaineAshford

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I thought that because there are 7 billion people on Earth is it because most of them dont belive in paranormal that they interfere and obstruct etc whatever paranormal effect (ex. psychokinesis) you attempt to cause? An analogy in some global effect is that with thousands of voices yelling "Its impossible" and other stuff about their life and one voice says "Move, pen" over and over that voice cant 'be heard by pen for it to move' because of all other stuff going all over from other people (not mentioning it also requires more than 100% of focus from whoever is trying to move it)? Or better analogy would be that a single modulated EM signal cant be heard through all random jamming from other sources which there are many more of than actual transmitters who try to send something 'real' so even if you are doing something right whatever you are trying to do 'cant receive you'?

If everyone on Earth belived in it (not saying there is any way to make that heppen) would it be easier to 'move something with your mind' or even almost ridiculusly easy to levitate a building as it is to move your hand? Would not even children be able to use PK from early age because of all outside influences by people already doing it (they didnt know they could walk once, and they see other people walking so they start walking themselves) since people have legs they can walk since people have a soul they can kinet?

Seems to me according to this if people ever get more than 50% of population to belive and use psionics it would become impossible not to be able to do it through same effect (more voices saying its possible than those saying its impossible minus internal beliefs).


Because 7billion people of Earth are golems[fleshrobots]! Lol! Welcome to magick, only the magick users are real people.

July 08, 2016, 06:51:01 PM
Reply #8

Merlin

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I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense past the extreme surface detail. Sure, I think it's a good think to have some sort of magick in your life. Therefore I think people who have magick in their lives may have enriched lives. I can relate more easily to people with lives that are similarly enriched to mine, but then you take the leap of saying that that makes them inherently better. It's a bit astounding to hear this from someone who's working on level 3 of his ascension O:
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw