Author Topic: Chi Kung - 4 Weeks experiment - journal  (Read 2996 times)

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May 09, 2016, 02:36:28 PM
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Akenu

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Monday, 9 May 2016
Chi Kung experiment
So, I have gotten into Chi Kung again and have decided to give it a 4 week try, that means till 5th June.

I have experimented with Chi Kung before, many years ago but at the time I felt silly doing many of the exercises. I would say I have matured in this and I am ready for a next attempt.

Setup of the experiment
For now I can say I will do 7 exercises of Tao Yin every evening and Tin Kuang at least once a day.
Tao Yin is a cleansing exercise with a slight energy improve. Tin Kuang is also geared towards cleansing but also for forming a connection between lower and upper tantien.

Preliminary exercises
It's safe to say I have already done some exercises during the weekend and even managed to locate the real tantien (lower tantien specific to my energy body) so I can work with Chi more effectively now.

Further development of the experiment
Tao Yin and Tin Kuang are a good beginning, but I would like to add more complex exercises to the mix as the experiment progresses,

Notes so far
I didn't have time so far to do a full Tin Kuang, but I have to say I did Tao Yin today (Monday) and yesterday (Sunday) and the final feeling is pretty amazing. My whole body feels a little bit hot, but in a pleasant manner, I also feel more relaxed.

May 09, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
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Neeros

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Curious to hear about what your experiences may be differentiating between skills and techniques. By that I mean for example there are the physical movements and breath coordination which make up the techniques, but which by themselves are not chi kung—and the relevant skills such as relaxing, entering into a meditative state of mind, and generating an internal energy flow.
The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
- Sun Tzu

[18:22] <Rayn> That makes it worst. If the people can't practically apply and create effects, it is not so good.
[18:22] <metalforever_> okay, and who in the oec can do that? i would say very very few
[18:22] <metalforever_> their too busy fondling their psiballs

May 10, 2016, 08:50:05 AM
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Akenu

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Curious to hear about what your experiences may be differentiating between skills and techniques. By that I mean for example there are the physical movements and breath coordination which make up the techniques, but which by themselves are not chi kung—and the relevant skills such as relaxing, entering into a meditative state of mind, and generating an internal energy flow.

So, are you asking me to compare the movement meditation exercises from chi kung with non chi kung exercises like from GD rituals or mesmerism? Or do you say that Tao Yin is not a part of Chi Kung?

May 10, 2016, 01:38:14 PM
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Akenu

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Tuesday, 10 May 2016
Chi Kung experiment: Day 2
So, a second day of Chi Kung experiment is over so let's sum the day.

First of all, I have to admit I really like the feeling right after the Tao Yin exercise. The whole idea of cleansing the energy channels (meridians) and then getting in more chi is very interesting. I also like that Tao Yin is really a meditation exercise, buzzing sound (Nada) and vision of a color appearing out of nowhere and then disappearing in the middle is part of the experience. This is something I always missed in Five Tibetan rites, they are great for cleansing and physical exercise as well, just the meditation part seems to be missing (at least in my experience).

Tin Kuang exercise today made me a little bit dizzy, hard to say why. I either overdo the breathing or doing this exercise in a moving vehicle is not a good idea, but hell, if I can do pranayama in the bus, tin kuang should be no problem either.

Other exercises
I was a little bit ahead of myself today and wanted to add more exercises to the list. Specifically Yen-Chi (swallowing of Chi), Pi-Chi (holding of Chi) and Nei-tan (microcosmic orbit). I think I have to take things nice and easy at least this week, keeping just Tao-Yin, Tin Kuang and Tao Chi (basic chi breathing exercises). But I do plan to use part of Tao-Yin wisdom for massages.

Quick note
I should check where the name meridian comes from because it seems in Chinese these paths are called simply Ting.

May 10, 2016, 04:13:08 PM
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Shinichi

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Is there a particular source for the exercises you're doing? I've seen and done several versions of some of the names you're using (microcosmic orbit for one), so this would be easier to follow as a spectator if we knew exactly what you were doing. Or at least where you're coming from.



~:Shin:~
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"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

May 10, 2016, 10:03:26 PM
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Mind_Bender

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What exactly is Tin Kung? The Cantonese pronunciation for Tian Gong (I have never heard of either)?

I really do enjoy the Dao Yin I learned. I am solidifying my practice of Hui Gong (Wisdom Qigong for Bone, Blood and Marrow) before I begin my Dao Yin once again. They seem similar in approach (working with the the organs).

Are you practicing just to see how it effects you in general or also to achieve medicinal and curative powers of internal practice?

I do like these experiments you are posting. It has given me inspiration for my own experiments, so kudos for that!  :)
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

May 11, 2016, 12:19:20 AM
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Akenu

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Is there a particular source for the exercises you're doing? I've seen and done several versions of some of the names you're using (microcosmic orbit for one), so this would be easier to follow as a spectator if we knew exactly what you were doing. Or at least where you're coming from.
~:Shin:~

This one: http://www.amazon.com/Chi-Kung-Beginners-Scott-Shaw/dp/0738704199
I really recommend the book :)

May 11, 2016, 12:20:34 AM
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Akenu

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What exactly is Tin Kung? The Cantonese pronunciation for Tian Gong (I have never heard of either)?

I really do enjoy the Dao Yin I learned. I am solidifying my practice of Hui Gong (Wisdom Qigong for Bone, Blood and Marrow) before I begin my Dao Yin once again. They seem similar in approach (working with the the organs).

Are you practicing just to see how it effects you in general or also to achieve medicinal and curative powers of internal practice?

I do like these experiments you are posting. It has given me inspiration for my own experiments, so kudos for that!  :)

Sorry for that, I am trying to turn names written in Czech into English form. In the book I have referenced above it is written as Jin Guang.

May 12, 2016, 02:38:43 PM
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Akenu

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Thursday, 12 May 2016
Chi Kung experiment: Day 3 and 4
So, yesterday I failed a little as I didn't manage to do Tao Yin exercise, but I finally figured out why I was getting dizzy during Jin Guang (I originally wrote this as Tin Kuang). The thing was that I misinterpreted the description in the book and was inhaling the Chi into the whole body instead of "just" the Dan Tien. I fixed this misunderstanding and the exercise works great now.

I have also tried the method of sending Chi into arms from Tao Yin during the massage and the effect was very impressive, a clear crack sound in my wife's shoulder was very audible during a massage, turned out she had a problem with the shoulder for a couple of days and the massage fixed it.

I am also messing around the idea of sending Chi to the knife's blade during my throwing sessions. The blade does resonate with Chi and after hitting the wooden plank it does act a little bit differently (it shakes for about 10 seconds), but it doesn't go deeper.

May 14, 2016, 12:49:20 PM
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Neeros

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Curious to hear about what your experiences may be differentiating between skills and techniques. By that I mean for example there are the physical movements and breath coordination which make up the techniques, but which by themselves are not chi kung—and the relevant skills such as relaxing, entering into a meditative state of mind, and generating an internal energy flow.

So, are you asking me to compare the movement meditation exercises from chi kung with non chi kung exercises like from GD rituals or mesmerism? Or do you say that Tao Yin is not a part of Chi Kung?

Not at all, I am speaking from a purely shaolin chi kung paradigm. Entering Silence, or Entering a Chi Kung state of mind and is what we call it. The fundamental skill behind our internals, and now that you mention it, most occult practices as well. So taking that into context, my original question was just a curiosity to see how you find practicing these exercises in both modes. Using mind to assist the movements and breathing in generating chi flow, versus physical movements and breathing to generate chi flow.

Also, I am really looking forward to the results of your experiment in augmenting your throwing knives with chi! :)
The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
- Sun Tzu

[18:22] <Rayn> That makes it worst. If the people can't practically apply and create effects, it is not so good.
[18:22] <metalforever_> okay, and who in the oec can do that? i would say very very few
[18:22] <metalforever_> their too busy fondling their psiballs

May 16, 2016, 01:28:01 AM
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Akenu

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Monday, 16 May 2016
Day 5 up to 7
Well, sorry for a late update, had a little busy weekend.

First of all I have to say I found a mistake in the experiment. What I have considered to be my Tantien was in fact Shenjue, another energy center. The mistake was simple to be made as it is said no one can really tell you the exact location of the Tantien except you and Shenjue reacted very strongly during preliminary exercises to find the Tantien.



Well, so that has been fixed.

As the next part I have added Yen-Chi (swallowing of Chi) to my daily routine. During the weekend I have also used Pi-Chi (holding of Chi) as my lovely wife has prepared a surprise kitchen reconstruction for me which consisted of moving everything outside of the kitchen, getting rid of the old floor, re-filling the gaps between tiles, getting in a new linoleum, painting the walls and getting all equipment back in. We also had to use the new kitchen desk so once again I had to cut out the hole for the kitchen sink... Pi-Chi allowed me to carry objects way more easily so later that day I have decided to test it on my way stronger friend in arm wrestling, first before and then after using Pi-Chi. Well, I lost both times but he admitted the second time I put up a little bit more of a fight.

Well, today I am going to add Neitan (microscopic orbit), at least the most simple version of it to the daily routine, right after Tao-Yin and I will probably finish it with Shou-Kung. In the book by Scott Shaw it is said that you should do the Shou-Kung exercise after each Chi Kung session to make the effects more stable.

May 16, 2016, 12:25:53 PM
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Akenu

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@Neeros: Ah, I guess I know what you mean. I personally find exercises like basic Tao Chi less effective than e.g. Tao Yin but it is hard to distinguish whether the reason is the meditative state you get in during Tao Yin or Nei Tan or simply the fact that you control Chi in a more precise and complex manner than in basi exercises.

That being said, doing any exercise right after Tao Yin, whether we speak about Pi-Chi or a simple pull-ups seems to be more easy. In terms of Chi Kung it is easier to feel and hence manipulate energy and in terms of a physical exercises it iseasier to concentrate on the form (also muscles get more oxygen so then they work more effectively).

Speaking of Shaolin Chi Kung, there should be an exercise known as Yin Jin Jing which should originate directly from Ta Mu, any more info on this exercise would be appreciated :)

May 16, 2016, 07:23:52 PM
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Neeros

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@Neeros: Ah, I guess I know what you mean. I personally find exercises like basic Tao Chi less effective than e.g. Tao Yin but it is hard to distinguish whether the reason is the meditative state you get in during Tao Yin or Nei Tan or simply the fact that you control Chi in a more precise and complex manner than in basi exercises.

That being said, doing any exercise right after Tao Yin, whether we speak about Pi-Chi or a simple pull-ups seems to be more easy. In terms of Chi Kung it is easier to feel and hence manipulate energy and in terms of a physical exercises it iseasier to concentrate on the form (also muscles get more oxygen so then they work more effectively).

Speaking of Shaolin Chi Kung, there should be an exercise known as Yin Jin Jing which should originate directly from Ta Mu, any more info on this exercise would be appreciated :)

Nice, glad you are having a good time of it!

The beginning material is the 18 Lohan Hands of which the first 8 are known as the 8 pieces of brocade. Their primary purpose is health.

Yi Jin Jing or Muscle Tendon Change is the intermediate material given to us by Ta Mo. Their primary purpose is vitality and strength.

The advanced is known as Bone Marrow Cleansing, which involve generating chi flow to nourish all 5 levels of skin, flesh, meridian, organ, and bone marrow. This eventually leads into the highest skill, spiritual attainment of Chan or Zen including expanding into the cosmos.

We just call Yi Jin Jing "Sinew Metamorphosis." It is a set of 12 exercises that can potentially generate tremendous vitality and internal force. Back before my Sigung discovered that skill/technique differentiation I mentioned in my last post, he would practice all 12 exercises for all 49 repetitions each. Nowadays with that conscious effort to utilize the underlying skills we can just do one of the twelve a mere 3 to 6 repetitions and get even more benefit.

The exercise of Flicking Fingers for example is just a minute contraction of the fingers, and yet three full repetitions in a perfect chi kung state of mind can open up the entire macrocosmic orbit.

Here is a resource, a recent Q&A. http://www.shaolin.org/general-2/sinew-metamorphosis/overview.html

of which the first "AN EXPERIMENT WITH SINEW METAMORPHOSIS" is a wonderful read.
http://www.shaolin.org/general-2/sinew-metamorphosis/sinew-metamorphosis01.html

Take it easy,
The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
- Sun Tzu

[18:22] <Rayn> That makes it worst. If the people can't practically apply and create effects, it is not so good.
[18:22] <metalforever_> okay, and who in the oec can do that? i would say very very few
[18:22] <metalforever_> their too busy fondling their psiballs

May 16, 2016, 07:38:33 PM
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Shinichi

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If it helps, I found the "core" of my Lower Dantian to be precisely at my physical center of gravity. The outer field extends all the way to Shenjue and Mingmen on your chart, as well as further down to Huiyin (Changqiang on your chart for some reason). This broad range is why it's called the elixir field, but the "core," the "golden pearl" itself, is at my physical center of gravity.

I suspect it is pretty much the same for everyone, and this is also why everyone's lower dantian is in a slightly different place - different body structure (male, female, tall, short, fat, skinny, etc) means different location for the center of gravity, and thus different location for the dantian. Just a suspicion, though. I haven't discussed this extensively with many other long term practitioners, so I don't know if everyone else can say the golden pearl forms at the center of gravity or not.

Speaking of Shaolin Chi Kung, there should be an exercise known as Yin Jin Jing which should originate directly from Ta Mu, any more info on this exercise would be appreciated :)

The best work I've read on the Yi Jin Jing is Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming's "Qi Gong: The Secret of Youth." He goes into extensive detail and discusses not just the Yi Jin Jing, but the other exercises that Da Mo created, as well as how and why both are important.

I don't practice any of Da Mo's work, except the Brocade I suppose if it really did come from the Lohan, but Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming is a very good scholar and student of that work.



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

May 23, 2016, 10:46:49 PM
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TheAghora

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Hey guys, it's been a long time!

Anyway, I thought of something you could add to your practices that I've had amazing results from. It's not something you find commonly, and it's from an internal martial art that I've been learning. I'm pretty deep into Xingyiquan, and I recently started teaching Dai Shi Xin Yi Liu He. This is where modern Xingyiquan came from. In Dai Style, we have a posture that everyone learns. Traditionally you learned only the posture for 2 years before moving to footwork and learning more advanced variations of the posture. The posture is two fold. It teaches you how to compress and expand, in a manner that allows you to use your spine, reverse breathing, your Dan Tian, and the lower back all at the same time to where you can use the full rotation of your lower Dan Tien in combat. Outside of this being combat orientated, it is extremely quick when it comes to cultivation of Qi in your Dan Tian and starts the process of alchemy to where you begin transmuting the internal energy upward. When this is done, your Yi (Intent) is focused on the Dan Tian and on the movement when you compress and expand, and you roll the Dan Tian forward. It's as a ball, and you roll it and churn it, developing the Elixir at the same time while you train for combat.

My Shifu has developed a physical bulge in the area of the Dan Tien and can rotated it in any direction now and this is some what common in high level Xingyi teachers, though I haven't met anyone else that teaches Dai Shi Xin Yi Liu He.. The entire system of Dai Style is combat orientated, though it is very internal orientated as well, Alchemy is a very important aspect, more important then the combat aspect. Combat is secondary. There are 8 additional ways to train the lower Dan Tian that this, to help develop and train it, and churn the field. It is explained in the system how to transmute the energy upward, it is very Daoist based. One of the forms, the 5 element forms, is based on the 5 elements, a creation and destruction cycle. The elements of the Organs are based upon the 5 external senses, and the 5 major internal organs. When you perform a form, say Pi Chaun, which represents Metal, and it represents an Ax, as it chops like an Ax. When this is done, and you perform the sound that correlates with it,, you are practicing a Nei Gong, as well as a form of combat at the same time. For example, you are regenerating your eye sight, and healing your lungs at the same time while practicing something that seems combat orientated.

Originally it was against the rules to practice the squatting monkey in public at all, the Dai family was extremely secretive about this. If you would like I can post how to do it here, then link a video here to the Grandson of the lineage holder, my Shifu. There is a good demonstration there, though a bit quick. With seeing it and an explanation of it and what to do exactly, it is something you can do without physical instruction in person. I'm not saying this is the be all end all type of thing, but I will say that I've tried multiple different routines of Qi Gong, and this system over all has done more for me then anything else I've ever done.

Thought you might be interested.