Author Topic: Polarity and the Balancing of Forces  (Read 8529 times)

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April 12, 2016, 03:46:10 PM
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Shinichi

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So, reading through the latest round of TDS “discussion,” only one thing stuck out to me as worth commenting on independent of the TDS discussion.

To summarize, I’m going to chime in on what began on this page. In short Akenu and a few others get into a discussion about the Astral Light and the Vital Force and whether or not they have a “Self-Balancing” effect on the microcosm. The discussion then descended, but I believe the topic is relevant and worth being properly discussed as something separate from the dramas of that thread.

I essentially agree with Akenu’s initial point on this subject, based solidly in both my own experience as well as simple scholarly evidence. Anyone who is properly educated on and trained in the nature and use of LVX, or even just someone who has properly read Levi, should understand that the Astral Light is not a single simple force but a polar and complex one. Od and Ob are the Electric and Magnetic Fluids as Bardon terms them, while Levi’s Aur is the union of both in a state of Equilibrium. Levi’s LVX is embodied in the caduceus symbol: two serpents (Od and Ob) entwined around a single rod (Aur). This is just Modern Magick 101 (not to be confused with Post-Modern, which came after :P ).

So to argue that LVX (or the Vital Force) is a “self-balancing” force is inherently incorrect, or at the very least misleading. These forces just don't work that way, because depending on what exercise you are doing, how you do it, whether you’re male or female, where you do it, and even what time of day you do an exercise - all of these and many other internal and external things determine whether you are working with a primarily Odic aspect of LVX, a primarily Obic aspect, or the balanced Aur. And even if you are working with the perfectly balanced Aur, this does not inherently mean that it will have a self-balancing effect on your body and psyche.

More simply, when you are working with LVX, you are not automatically working with Aur. You are far more likely to be working with the Ob or Od aspect of LVX, which will have an effect on your own microcosmic balance of Ob and Od (your inner Electromagnetic Equipoise, something Bardon and others very plainly discuss). And even if you do manage to work with the Macrocosmic Aur, this does not mean that it will automatically balance your microcosmic Ob and Od or develop Aur internally. It will simply add to whatever the existing balance, or imbalance, is.

Because it is not the energies we work with that have a balancing effect upon us, it is how we work with them. The forces themselves have no interest in the human idea of balance. Rather, one can and should argue that the organic systems of nature itself, broadly speaking, has a habit of always striving for a state of equilibrium. It is part of the natural cycle and such, the collective of forces and how they play on one another. This is true internally as well as it is externally: the body, if healthy, will always take whatever fuel you provide and it will try its best to use that energy in a way that encourages optimal functioning.

But that is entirely the problem. If the body’s natural balancing mechanisms are impaired, if you are sick or similarly “stuck” in an imbalanced state in any way (mentally or physically), then working with “neutral” forces like the the Astral Light or the Vital Force will not automatically correct the imbalanced state. Because that is not their nature or their purpose. Instead, they will do their actual work and simply reinforce the body’s current natural functions and natural state, whatever that happens to be. If this natural state is presently out of balance (mentally or physically), then the energy added to the system will exaggerate that state; leading to a deepened state of imbalance and a whole new host of problems. Worse still, if you are working with the Odic or Obic side (even if you don't realize it), then that will most especially encourage the development of imbalances, which will in turn promote many problems.

This is why all serious traditions that engage in working with these forces require serious preparation and other exercises which actively achieve balance, as well as thorough study of exactly what is being worked with, before these specific energies are approached. This can include mental exercises and work like Bardon’s Soul Mirror, dietary changes, performing specific exercises of various kinds, and also actively receiving treatment from someone who is capable of making sure the electromagnetic fluids are balanced as you practice. It is the body and mind, the balancing mechanisms themselves, which must be balanced in order to ensure a balanced practice. Forces like LVX and The Vital Force simply do not do this automatically.

Because “Neutral” =/= “Self-Balancing.”

There is also an important question asked by Ekstatikos, which Akenu could have and should have answered (temper, temper, my friend :P ).

Could you explain to us how one goes about working with the astral light in the properly 'balanced' fashion?

The answer to this is essentially the same to the question of “how does one safely work with the Electromagnetic Fluids.” Because you must absolutely understand that both LVX and VF are very much Electromagnetic, and you have to understand the polar nature of these forces, both micro- and macrocosmically. You have to understand that working with one aspect (Electric Fluid) will have different effects than working with another aspect (Magnetic Fluid), and working with their balanced force (Electromagnetic Fluid, Aur) will have yet another set of effects. This is true not just in how the force will affect you internally, but also in how the forces interact externally.

For example, one can create thunderstorms and lightning in the sky by creating a Volt of the Electric Fluid in one hand, a Volt of the Magnetic Fluid in the other hand, throwing them into the atmosphere and then clashing them together. The clash of + and - forces creates a bolt of lightning. This is something Bardon mentions in Step X and it illustrates that the Electromagnetic Fluids are very different and nuanced and react in different ways. And broader forces like LVX and VF, which possess Electric and Magnetic polar components, likewise have very different and nuanced aspects - which means there are very different and nuanced applications for these forces depending on what exercises and skills are applied. You can't just work with these forces and expect them to automatically encourage balance in your mind, soul and body. Other steps have to be taken to ensure Equipoise.

Because, again: “Neutral” =/= “Self-Balancing.”



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

April 12, 2016, 07:38:30 PM
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ArcaTuthus

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I actually agree, if you practice with the vital force, or astral light, during the day, you should also practice at night. But, that being said, the contact with imbalance in the elemental aspects within us is balanced by the use of the vital force in my experience, as long as you do your practices in a balanced way. Like, as you said, day vs. night, male and female, etc.

(Edit) wanted to add that in my experience the magnetic and electric aspects of day and night, practicing 12 hours or so apart, helps with balance the most. This is just my experience though.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 07:42:42 PM by ArcaTuthus »
And how!

April 13, 2016, 01:17:32 AM
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Akenu

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Very good article, Shinichi :).

There is also an important question asked by Ekstatikos, which Akenu could have and should have answered (temper, temper, my friend :P ).

Could you explain to us how one goes about working with the astral light in the properly 'balanced' fashion?

Guiltyyyyyy! :D.

April 13, 2016, 01:59:50 AM
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Ekstatikos

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Shinichi thanks for this excellent exposition - it's given me a lot to think about! I do have some questions:

And broader forces like LVX and VF, which possess Electric and Magnetic polar components, likewise have very different and nuanced aspects - which means there are very different and nuanced applications for these forces depending on what exercises and skills are applied. You can't just work with these forces and expect them to automatically encourage balance in your mind, soul and body. Other steps have to be taken to ensure Equipoise.

Because, again: “Neutral” =/= “Self-Balancing.”

So, I imagine that yes, neutral does not automatically mean self-balancing - but a neutral force must be more inclined towards balance, so that perhaps it is easier to use such a force for the purpose of balance?

Now, you also say that 'other steps' would need to be taken - this seems reasonable to me. Could you elaborate though? ArcaTuthus, for example, mentions the idea of practising at more or less opposite ends of the day, in my experience this does help. Also, I think it almost goes without saying that if you are sick or impaired, then yes, working with the astral light or vital force is contraindicated. I would also imagine that a technique which involves drawing in the astral light in a very specific way (entering the body in a particular area, with particular accompanying visualizations and breathing patters, for example), would be one way of attempting to utilize the astral light in a way that is balancing. Would you agree? What other things would be necessary to make sure the astral light is having a balancing rather than a destabilizing effect?

The vital force, on the other hand, seems more straightforwardly balancing to me. Besides the usual contraindications of not doing accumulations when ill, or trying to balance the practice by practising at opposite ends of the day, or again, making sure that any thoughts or emotions don't become impressed during the accumulation process, I have to say that my experience of vital force accumulations is that they really are more or less naturally balancing. Do you believe that as many 'other steps' need to be taken when working with the vital force (in order for it to have a balancing effect) as with the astral light? If so, what would these involve?
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April 13, 2016, 04:57:28 AM
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Shinichi

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but a neutral force must be more inclined towards balance, so that perhaps it is easier to use such a force for the purpose of balance?

Not necessarily. Correlation does not mean Causation.

Think about Water. In Chemistry, H20 is pretty much our most universal Solvent, because it is the most neutral. Most acids, when neutralized through reactions with other chemicals, even turn into water as the chemicals cancel each other out.

But it is not the H20 that does the balancing work, it is the stuff in the H20 and our use of those things to specifically create a neutralizing reaction (to neutralize the acid). Drinking a bunch of water will lubricate your body, but it does essentially nothing to achieve any form of equipoise by itself.

Now, you also say that 'other steps' would need to be taken - this seems reasonable to me. Could you elaborate though? ArcaTuthus, for example, mentions the idea of practising at more or less opposite ends of the day, in my experience this does help. Also, I think it almost goes without saying that if you are sick or impaired, then yes, working with the astral light or vital force is contraindicated. I would also imagine that a technique which involves drawing in the astral light in a very specific way (entering the body in a particular area, with particular accompanying visualizations and breathing patters, for example), would be one way of attempting to utilize the astral light in a way that is balancing. Would you agree? What other things would be necessary to make sure the astral light is having a balancing rather than a destabilizing effect?

The easiest way to achieve balance with the Electromagnetic aspects of LVX is to simply master the Electromagnetic aspects of LVX.

Yeah, you can breathe certain ways, practice at different times of day, eat certain foods, and do other Daoist practices that work to balance Yin and Yang. But in the practice of Magick, the most obvious and simple thing to do is just achieve proper initiation into the LVX, know when you are working with Ob, Od, or Aur, and act according to circumstance. If you do that, then you can even work with LVX when you are sick, because you will be able to manipulate the Od and Ob balance of the body (Bardon talks about this kind of fine tuning) to neutralize the sickness.

Because this is how Modern Magick approaches these things. It's not a Daoist practice, though those work just fine. Western Tradition (especially if we go back to Pagan traditions, like my primary work now) is about getting in, getting your hands dirty, and doing things straight on.

The vital force, on the other hand, seems more straightforwardly balancing to me. Besides the usual contraindications of not doing accumulations when ill, or trying to balance the practice by practising at opposite ends of the day, or again, making sure that any thoughts or emotions don't become impressed during the accumulation process, I have to say that my experience of vital force accumulations is that they really are more or less naturally balancing. Do you believe that as many 'other steps' need to be taken when working with the vital force (in order for it to have a balancing effect) as with the astral light? If so, what would these involve?

I would argue that it's quite the opposite.

What I'm trying to state clearly in this thread is that everything is Electromagnetic. This includes the Vital Force, and even a most basic Google search of Daoist tradition agrees. There is Yin Qi and Yang Qi, and there is also a balanced form of Qi. Magnetic, Electric, and Electromagnetic. So again, there are many different things to do here, and most of them we can take straight from Daoist tradition. You can practice at certain times of day (Noon is most Yang, Midnight is most Yin, etc), you can eat certain foods, you can take certain herbs, do certain exercises, breathe certain ways. All of these can manipulate the Yin & Yang balance of Qi.

But Qi is most certainly not self-balancing, in and of itself. The body is what balances the Qi. The body is what absorbs the energy you give it, be it food through digestion or energy through breathing. So if you are perfectly balanced and healthy, then yes, working with Qi in a straightforward manner won't matter much - your body will balance out whatever you give it according to your nature. (but again, as with LVX, if you are properly initiated into Energy Work you can simply balance things out and heal yourself even when you are sick...)

The reason why I said I would argue the opposite of VF being more safe than LVX is because of the more dense and more physical nature of VF, the way it runs more directly through the physical body in the meridians and nervous system. Imbalances here can, independent of any human intent (because really, nature does have its own movements independent of humans), grow very intense.

And I'll offer myself up as an example. I have a very strong tendency to lean towards what TCM calls an Excess Yang "imbalance." I've done numerous things to balance this out, but it keeps popping back up in dozens of different ways. I've literally worked for years, balanced out my Fire Temper in the Soul Mirrors quite a bit, toned down my Type A personality, done extreme Yin cultivation, and I even take cold showers for crying out loud. But my body has a tendency to lean towards Yang more than Yin, to the extent that my body temperature usually runs a few degrees higher than average. I'm quite literally a hot guy.  :cool:

So when I do any form of energy work, even if I enter a perfect Void state, all energy that I work with will be tinged with Yang. All energy that I absorb will, rather than automatically balancing the Excess Yang, simply give me a larger amount of energy with the same imbalance. This even affects my magical practices: I can easily work with Fire Magick, Solar Forces, Martial Forces, and so on, but things like Water Magick and Lunar Magick are more challenging for me because I have a hard time tuning in to that polarity of the energies. I do get to talk to Undines freely, though. Apparently this Yang thing combined with my Type A personality makes me immune to their seductions, and they're wonderful friends to have.  :) But yeah.

As for other more specific steps, it really depends on the nature of the imbalance. This is part of why Bardon encourages the Soul Mirror work so seriously - that work maps out the imbalances, and Step 2 work helps you clear them up, so by the time you get to Step 3 and 4 you should be okay for the most part. The Elementary Work is the Balancing Work. And by the time you get on up to working with the Electromagnetic Fluids properly, that's when you can start really fine tuning things. Because it's the same here as with the LVX: the easiest and most Magus thing for anyone to do is to simply master both polarities of the force. Then you are aware of which force you are working with, and you can work according to what you what to do, and what balances you want to achieve, completely independent of things like time of day and what you ate for breakfast.

Just remember that nothing in Magick is automatically good for you. Swimming is a healthy activity, but it's always only a moment away from drowning.



~:Shin:~

EDIT:

I forgot, one almost absurdly obvious way of achieving balance is to just have really good sex.  :biggrin: During sex, especially with someone you love, energies are exchanged. A lot. And especially with heterosexual sex, this means there is an exchange of Electric and Magnetic energies. I know several women who have very strong Yin, and I've experimented with numerous ways of working together to balance out my sometimes intensely excess Yang. Something as simple as holding hands and opening our hearts to each other does very wondrous things, and that's besides more complex Sex Magick and Sexual Alchemy. The "excess yang" problem is never really a problem when I have a partner close, because her aura mixing with mine keeps my imbalance from going to extremes. We balance each other.

Never rule out the simple things in life when thinking about magick.  :wink:
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 05:32:10 AM by Shinichi »
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

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April 13, 2016, 05:54:39 AM
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Akenu

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The vital force, on the other hand, seems more straightforwardly balancing to me. Besides the usual contraindications of not doing accumulations when ill, or trying to balance the practice by practising at opposite ends of the day, or again, making sure that any thoughts or emotions don't become impressed during the accumulation process, I have to say that my experience of vital force accumulations is that they really are more or less naturally balancing. Do you believe that as many 'other steps' need to be taken when working with the vital force (in order for it to have a balancing effect) as with the astral light? If so, what would these involve?

Well, we could say that Vital force comes from Astral light so we could just go for the As Above So Below, but instead let's check this practically. The balance the vital force tends to have in a healthy individual is actually very fragile, a certain amount of predefined things is needed to keep the vital force from peeking over. There is a minimum dose of water you need to drink in a certain amount or you will die, BUT if you drink water excessively, that can also kill you. Same goes with food, same goes with sleep, exercise, oxygen, atmospheric pressure. If we considered vital force as scales then there is a bunch of kids around who keep trying to trip the scales out of balance.

In case of vital force we can also often get into circular logic, the imbalance can cause stress, but stress also strengthens the imbalance, same goes with depression, et cetera. There is also an unconscious (but active) self-balancing process but that sometimes gets clogged as well, in that case we speak about neurosis or in serious cases about psychosis in terms of psychology, but, as mentioned above, a physical health is also at the constant stake.

April 13, 2016, 06:10:07 AM
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Ekstatikos

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Thanks for the thorough answer Shinichi.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 13, 2016, 04:45:08 PM
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freeDspirit

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Great topic.

Could i please ask the following questions?

1. Why would someone want to work with or use the vital force or astral light?

2. Where does the astral plane fit into all of this? Is the vital force what makes up the astral plane or is it astral light? I'm just a bit confused on how these things are connected?

3. What is after the vital force and or astral light? What type of force or energy is beyond this?

It would just be good to get one of your opinions or experience on the matter?

Thanks in advance.

April 13, 2016, 07:58:31 PM
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Shinichi

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Thanks for the thorough answer Shinichi.

You're welcome.  :)

1. Why would someone want to work with or use the vital force or astral light?

This comes down to what kind of Magick you wish to practice. VF and LVX are both parts of the Western Magical Tradition of Energy Work (as opposed to other traditions of Energy Work, like Yoga or Qi Gong). So if you want to learn how to work with Energy in Magick as tangible forces that you can feel and control by Will, then learning to work with forces like VF, LVX, the Elements and so on is necessary.

There are, however, other traditions of magick as well as several other systems right here in the West that do not require the use of energy work. Rayn here on these forums commonly talks about his system, and how he doesn't use Energy Work and doesn't even believe Metaphysical Energy exists the way most Occultists say. He has very strong opinions on the matter, but his ideas are rooted in experience and most people would learn a lot from him if they get past his strong personality. Others use things like Sigil Craft, some people simply summon spirits and make the spirits do Magick for them, and there are many other things besides.

Energy Work is just a matter of tradition and style, but it has both worked very well for me and I simply happen to like that style.  :cool:

2. Where does the astral plane fit into all of this? Is the vital force what makes up the astral plane or is it astral light? I'm just a bit confused on how these things are connected?

This is a bit of a bigger question that goes beyond the scope of this thread. VF and LVX are, generally speaking, just two different parts of the much broader spectrum of Energy in general. The LVX, for the most part, operates on the Astral Plane. VF, being the denser energy, operates on a lower level that is closer to the physical (in Hermetic Tradition, this denser level is often called the Etheric Plane or the Astral Matrix, among other things). At the same time, neither one is limited to that "level," since Nature tends to be a lot more flexible than people think.

You see, Hermetic Tradition teaches that the world is Four-Fold. There is the plane of Spirit, the Mental Plane, the Astral Plane, and the Physical Plane you see around you now. Humans, likewise, exist on each of these planes: we are a Spirit that is incarnate in a Mind, a Soul, and a Body. But this is just a matter of practical division and a matter of philosophy. Just like you can divide the Electromagnetic Spectrum into different ranges of frequency (radio waves, the visible spectrum, ect) and just like you can divide up the Visible Spectrum into different distinct colors. Like this, we can say there are the Spirit, Mind, Soul, and Body "planes" and "bodies" and all this, but they are all ultimately part of the same broader spectrum. The division serves a practical purpose in Magick, but the Mystic sees it as the illusion that it is. One big ass thing with many parts.  :)

3. What is after the vital force and or astral light? What type of force or energy is beyond this?

Depends on what tradition you follow. The VF is a very basic force that is worked with all over the world. A lot of people move beyond that to work with the Electromagnetic Fluids, the - and + parts of the VF, the Yin and Yang. Here in the West, specifically, there is also the Elementary Forces: Earth, Water, Air, Fire, and Spirit. Once those are mastered there are the Planetary Forces, and beyond that there are the Fixed Stars (Zodiac, Constellations, etc). The Chinese also have a similar progression. You begin working with Qi, and then the Five Elements, then the Eight Trigrams, and the Twelve Animals of their Zodiac. Other systems do entirely different things, but basically, there's quite a lot to do beyond basic energy work.

Those who work with Traditional Theurgy like myself also work with the various energies and powers of certain deities, and also other spirits. I work with my Familiar spirits a lot, and I often run into spirits in nature when I'm hiking or what have you. I'm friends with some of the Elementary Spirits that Bardon mentions in his second book. I work with my HGA spirit, and I've begun working with the Olympic Spirits of the Arbatel. I even know a demon or two. Every deity and spirit, much like every individual human, has certain skills, talents, and knowledge, besides having a specific type of energy unique to them (the aura of Odin is quite different from that of Danu!). Working with them gives me access to those things, so long as I stay on friendly terms.



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

April 13, 2016, 08:37:44 PM
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freeDspirit

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Wow that was very informative.

OK a question that i've been thinking about a lot. What about the demiurge? Does this being practice theurgy/magick and this is how all of this that we are a part of even exists because of it's sheer will from it's meditation?

I've read in a few places that to be a theurgist is to aim to be like the demiurge and do what it does or strive to become like it.

Is this where the hermetic system derives itself from, how to become a demiurge? What is the ultimate goal of such a system if it is not to be a demiurge or if they become a deity or similar?

Also the olympic spirits, deities, demons and HGA (What is this) you speak of are on which type of forces or levels?

April 14, 2016, 07:39:17 AM
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Shinichi

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OK a question that i've been thinking about a lot. What about the demiurge? Does this being practice theurgy/magick and this is how all of this that we are a part of even exists because of it's sheer will from it's meditation?

The demiurge is something a fair bit above all of that, so I'm not sure it's quite right to say that it practices anything or meditates at all. That may be an even bigger topic than the questions you asked before. lol

I've read in a few places that to be a theurgist is to aim to be like the demiurge and do what it does or strive to become like it.

First time I've heard that. I technically don't work with the demiurge at all, though I guess some could say my work with Wyrd is kind of similar? I honestly don't know, because I don't work with the demiurge as it's understood in those traditions.

Being a Theurgist primarily means that you work with forces bigger than yourself. When I invoke Odin, my soul takes on the shape of Odin, and my aura becomes Odin's aura. And because of this, I am able to temporarily wield Odin's power, and invoke Odin's Wisdom. Or when I am in a fight, if I invoke Tyr, I temporarily have all of his fighting instincts and sometimes greater physical strength. When I evoke a spirit, and have that spirit do some task for me, then my Will is being done - not by my Power, but by the Power of the spirit who is helping me. Theurgy, very simply, is the Magick of uniting internal and external forces towards a single goal. Whether you do that by Personal Evolution and the pursuit of personal deification, by Invoking gods and borrowing their power, or by Evoking spirits and having them do things on your behalf. All of that is Theurgy.

A bit part of Theurgy most certainly is about personal evolution, but I've never heard anyone say that one should become the demiurge. Transcend it, maybe. But not become it.

Is this where the hermetic system derives itself from, how to become a demiurge? What is the ultimate goal of such a system if it is not to be a demiurge or if they become a deity or similar?

I'm not sure about other traditions, but in the Neo-Platonic Tradition of Hermetic Theurgy, there is only one demiurge. If The Monad is The Father, than the Demiurge is The Mother.

One of my favorite images that depicts the Neo-Platonic Path of Ascension is this:



Earth is not in the center because these people actually believed that Earth is the center of the universe, Earth is the center because that is where you begin your initiation. It is your "You Are Here" point on the map. Thus, your initiation begins by mastering the Elementary Forces. Bardon calls this Equipoise, Crowley calls it Fortitude, but the result is the same. Once you master the Earth Sphere, then you begin the Planetary Ascension - visiting each planetary sphere, one at a time, letting your soul adjust to the energies of that level and becoming familiar with the spirits who live in each. Once you ascend to the Sphere of Saturn, mastering it and having mastered all the spheres before it, then you move further on out. Visiting each Zodiac, becoming familiar with the spirits of those stars, letting your soul adjust to each of those energies the same way you did with each of the elements and planets.

And then, having mastered and achieved equipoise with the four elementary energies, the seven planetary energies, and the twelve zodiacal energies, then you ascend to an even higher sphere: the domain of the gods. What happens at that point of evolution and beyond it, I honestly don't know. And I'm not sure I'd be allowed to talk about it here if I did know. :P

Also the olympic spirits, deities, demons and HGA (What is this) you speak of are on which type of forces or levels?

These are all sentient beings independent of humans. They have their own thoughts, their own feelings, and their own agendas. Working with them (sometimes) has many benefits, and is part of real Theurgy, but they are more than plain unintelligent "energies." Ghob, for example, is the dwarf/gnome who is King of the entire Earth Kingdom, and therefore holds rule over the whole of the Earth Element and all other Earth Spirits. Some would even say that he is the personification of the Earth Element itself, but he is very much a highly intelligent individual person.

The HGA is the Holy Guardian Angel. It's called the Dis in my Norse work, and the Norse Tradition has a very different approach to them than the Abrahamic Tradition that talks about the HGA. That's another broad, separate topic though.  :P



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

April 14, 2016, 07:48:44 AM
Reply #11

freeDspirit

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In you diagram, what is the first intellect?

Would the father be representative of the void, the nothingness?

Where does pistis Sophia fit into the diagram?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, I just am enjoying discussing this and learning about a different system to what I am familiar with.

April 14, 2016, 08:20:00 AM
Reply #12

Shinichi

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In you diagram, what is the first intellect?

The Father is what the Greeks called The One or The Good, and is considered to be Beyond understanding. It is so simple and so "other" that the human mind cannot comprehend it. You cannot achieve Union with it like you can achieve Union with a tree in Samadhi, because The One is just so different. Becoming that is the same as no longer becoming human, so humans simply cannot become that. Thus, since The One is not an inherently intellectual or sentient "thing," something else had to come from it in order to create the universe. This was the First Intellect, which helped establish The Demiurge, which created everything else.

Of course, lots of different philosophers have different opinions on exactly how this occurred. Some consider the Demiurge role to be played by Nous, some consider them to be the same, and others have different ideas entirely. Iamblichus I believe wrote of the hierarchy of The One being the highest thing, "The Hypercosmic Gods" coming after, the Demiurge coming next, and then the Cosmic Gods (which were born from the Demiurge) creating everything else.

Cosmology isn't something set in stone, you see. :) It's just a philosophical attempt to explain the universe, and our experience of the universe. This is why there are so many inherently different, yet ultimately similar approaches.

Would the father be representative of the void, the nothingness?

In my other work, I would consider the void to be something else. But that idea isn't expressed well in the image that I showed. In Kabbalah, it is Daath and The Abyss which separate The Father from everything else. In my explorations of Norse Cosmology, Ginnungagap is The Abyss, The Void. But that is all part of something else.

There's only so much you can depict in a single image.  :P

Where does pistis Sophia fit into the diagram?

I don't know. As I understand it, Pistis Sophia is a gnostic text, but I haven't read that book. So I have no idea how its teachings apply to the image I shared.

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, I just am enjoying discussing this and learning about a different system to what I am familiar with.

Don't worry about it. I have no problem answering questions and discussing cosmology.  :)



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

April 14, 2016, 03:16:09 PM
Reply #13

freeDspirit

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What is Norse cosmology and does it diffe to gnostic cosmology if there is a thing such as this?

If I wanted to read more about cosmology, which books or authors would you recommend?

Also with the abyss or nothingness, is that diagram contained within the nothingness or abyss? Isn't what 'powers' the cosmolog diagram and the nothingness ultimately the same energy/force/being?

So again just to get some deeper insight, why would one who is studying magick or theurgy use the forces or energy within the ideas of this cosmology? Could I please ask for some sort of examples as what one would use the different forces for and why? Is it because one who practices this Type of truth needs to go through the various forces to be like the one or to merge with the one?

Where does the divine masculine and feminine fit into this particular framework and how do they work? Does each level from the oneness contain a dual energetic force or is it also inherent within the one or the father?

April 14, 2016, 05:27:34 PM
Reply #14

freeDspirit

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One other thing to ask, where do the archons fit into it all? Is archons apart of the type of system you have learnt Shinichi?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 05:35:49 PM by freeDspirit »