Author Topic: The Divine Science (TDS) Ramose (Prophecy) and Veos- Open discussion  (Read 40994 times)

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April 13, 2016, 12:02:49 AM
Reply #330

Peoples Champion

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These are rather tame first world aspirant's problems, none of us here know true suffering.



Let me lecture you on true suffering you impudent, spoiled child. The best you guys can do is philosophize about how the physical body limits us or in some sense imprisons us. You sit and just talk about how the body limits us.


But you have never lived having your own body as a prison. My brother already described well enough all the pain I went through. You do not know what it is like to be trapped within your skin. You do not know what it is like to lose half your life from an illness, to have your life completely halted. You do not know what it is like to struggle to survive day by day. Due to the sheer exhaustion I suffered from I would have out of body experiences, tasting that sweet freedom of no limitations, only to be brought back into my body, into this physical prison of pain time and time again. You do not know what it is like to struggle to function day by day from the sheer exhaustion you are under as well as strain. So not only was this physically straining on me, it was mentally exhausting. You do not know what it is like to be sick for so long that you forget what it felt like to be healthy.


This is the type of callousness I was dealing with all the time in The Divine Science. The head teachers are like this and you do see that attitude leak to many of the students, not all of them, but it is enough to be noticeable. Even last year with people defending TDS they still didn't quite grasp what I went through. The only people who can relate to me are those who themselves have suffered immensely which is not going to be a lot of people. Then you get the fools who think I somehow enjoyed being like that, no one in their sane mind would enjoy the pain I went through, it was so bad my blood pressure kept spiking repeatedly that now I do have high blood pressure, I know people who are way heavier than me and have better blood pressure.  :P

Before, it did use to really bother me, but now I just accept it. If people themselves do not suffer greatly than they will have essentially sociopathic empathy. You get exceptions to this, but I've seen it way too many times now, not just in TDS but life in general. After I learned more about the background of Veos and Ramose and how they are essentially extremely spoiled brats, I begin to understand why they were the way they are. But that doesn't excuse them from their behavior, they just literally never had anyone stand up to them or call them on their crap, since they possess a supernatural charm that seems to sway anyone to their side that it is frightening. It's even to the point people who have they verbally abused, insult, or even lie about come crawling back to them.

April 13, 2016, 01:12:06 AM
Reply #331

ArcaTuthus

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Ok, I have to say... please don't "you guys" me.

I do know what it is like to be trapped in a body unable to do anything, I know what it is to have wires in my body, open holes festering with puss, to have to lay on my stomach because it is the only way I can be due to surgery. 5 surgeries in a matter of 18 months. Surgeries on my genitals, my anus, my legs and my back. All festering wounds, needing at home care for years, a daily nurse. This anger is not ok. Do not "you guys" me, please. Just because I don't pour out my own suffering doesn't mean it isn't like yours, doesn't mean it didn't hurt. Doesn't mean I didn't go insane because I couldn't shit without a colostomy bag. Couldn't piss without a catheter. You are throwing your anger at people who do not deserve it. If you believe TDS did this to you, then I hope that you can resolve that... TDS helped me, through MY suffering. I am here trying to listen and care, but it is not ok for you to "you guys" me. I have had pain, we all have pain, to a degree.

(edit) sorry for the outburst, I just want it to be out there. I have compassion because I have NEEDED compassion...

I DO KNOW what it is like to have my life be over, halted, shut down in every way. DO NOT "YOU GUYS" ME! please. I have been civil, and compassionate, and will continue to be, but although I serve I do not have the broken back of a servant. Show me the respect as a human I have shown you. This conversation is DISGUSTING, and we all should be ASHAMED to act this way.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 01:17:09 AM by ArcaTuthus »
And how!

April 13, 2016, 01:31:08 AM
Reply #332

IIHbuddy89

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That was one of the things that really turned me away from TDS - watching people react to the emergence of the Murawsky's and Rodz/his brother (sorry, typing PeoplesChampion over and over is a bit much) and not being able to summon up so much as a drop of sympathy.

Maybe because you behave like assholes. Think about it.  :wink:

Quote
It's even to the point people who have they verbally abused, insult, or even lie about come crawling back to them.

See? You start to sound even lamer than 3rd wave feminists. Just they use the word "rape" instead of "abuse" for anything they don't like.

Nobody got abused. Get over your huge ago and stop crying please. Move on with your life. Let it go...

Also who forced you to learn Theurgy exactly? There are sooo many traditions out there that not even utilize any energetic practise at all that can be "harmful" for your body (or for your ego).

Seriously it's like somebody wants to learn how to lift heavy weights, though his arm is seriously injured already.

It won't work! And of course you would blame the trainer in this case also i guess.

You people do this every time and like agonizing for lifetimes how they mistreated you special snowflakes, when actually it's common sense to take into consideration of the risks of a given practise!

Self-pity can be educational but for how long? Wouldn't it be better for you guys to just let go your anger?

I wish all of you guys a fullfilling and happy life on an other path, but seriously stop using Veritas as a facebook page for hunting for people's likes and symphathy...

This whole tds-sanctuary sect that starts emerging is like attention seeking behavior for "special" inviduals...


P.S: anyway thanks Rodz, but i'm not interested in "Daoist Magic"...but maybe i will look into it in the future




 



April 13, 2016, 01:34:31 AM
Reply #333

Ekstatikos

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These are rather tame first world aspirant's problems, none of us here know true suffering.



Let me lecture you on true suffering you impudent, spoiled child. The best you guys can do is philosophize about how the physical body limits us or in some sense imprisons us. You sit and just talk about how the body limits us.


But you have never lived having your own body as a prison. My brother already described well enough all the pain I went through. You do not know what it is like to be trapped within your skin. You do not know what it is like to lose half your life from an illness, to have your life completely halted. You do not know what it is like to struggle to survive day by day. Due to the sheer exhaustion I suffered from I would have out of body experiences, tasting that sweet freedom of no limitations, only to be brought back into my body, into this physical prison of pain time and time again. You do not know what it is like to struggle to function day by day from the sheer exhaustion you are under as well as strain. So not only was this physically straining on me, it was mentally exhausting. You do not know what it is like to be sick for so long that you forget what it felt like to be healthy.

People's Champion,

I'm very sorry, that's not what I meant at all. I meant the issues that were allegedly caused (or exacerbated) by Ramose and Veos, not issues that were already existent (and I can see that, considering you felt your already existing issue was exacerbated by your involvement with TDS, how callous my comment appeared). I chose my words very poorly and I apologize profusely. I'm happy to retract the entire statement wholeheartedly, as Kemetin pointed out, I am in no position to pronounce what the right perspective should be for anyone's own suffering. Of course.

I think what I had more hoped to express (but failed miserably to) was that part of healing is moving on, and not holding on to anger, which I feel is unhealthy. In that context, I wish everyone who was/felt harmed TOTAL health, including psychological and emotional. And if you all in your heart of hearts feel that the process of talking about your experiences and seeking justice is part of that total healing, then that of course is your prerogative, and I pray that it only benefits you. As I said, the fact that I disagree with some of what you are saying does not mean I don't have sympathy - I'm disappointed in myself for having expressed this so badly - I apologize.

I retract my statements about 'true suffering' entirely. I'm sorry and I only wish you well.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 13, 2016, 01:47:55 AM
Reply #334

Akenu

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These are rather tame first world aspirant's problems, none of us here know true suffering.



Let me lecture you on true suffering you impudent, spoiled child. The best you guys can do is philosophize about how the physical body limits us or in some sense imprisons us. You sit and just talk about how the body limits us.


But you have never lived having your own body as a prison. My brother already described well enough all the pain I went through. You do not know what it is like to be trapped within your skin. You do not know what it is like to lose half your life from an illness, to have your life completely halted. You do not know what it is like to struggle to survive day by day. Due to the sheer exhaustion I suffered from I would have out of body experiences, tasting that sweet freedom of no limitations, only to be brought back into my body, into this physical prison of pain time and time again. You do not know what it is like to struggle to function day by day from the sheer exhaustion you are under as well as strain. So not only was this physically straining on me, it was mentally exhausting. You do not know what it is like to be sick for so long that you forget what it felt like to be healthy.

People's Champion,

I'm very sorry, that's not what I meant at all. I meant the issues that were allegedly caused (or exacerbated) by Ramose and Veos, not issues that were already existent (and I can see that, considering you felt your already existing issue was exacerbated by your involvement with TDS, how callous my comment appeared). I chose my words very poorly and I apologize profusely. I'm happy to retract the entire statement wholeheartedly, as Kemetin pointed out, I am in no position to pronounce what the right perspective should be for anyone's own suffering. Of course.

I think what I had more hoped to express (but failed miserably to) was that part of healing is moving on, and not holding on to anger, which I feel is unhealthy. In that context, I wish everyone who was/felt harmed TOTAL health, including psychological and emotional. And if you all in your heart of hearts feel that the process of talking about your experiences and seeking justice is part of that total healing, then that of course is your prerogative, and I pray that it only benefits you. As I said, the fact that I disagree with some of what you are saying does not mean I don't have sympathy - I'm disappointed in myself for having expressed this so badly - I apologize.

I retract my statements about 'true suffering' entirely. I'm sorry and I only wish you well.

Wow.... okaaay. Well Akenu I apologize for calling you out, it was clearly not the right thing to do on these forums, and I do regret it. I should've shut up when I said I was bowing out, and going back on what I said myself didn't work out well for me. If I offended you I'm sorry, and if my tone was impolite I apologize. I can get somewhat passionate when I talk about TDS, because it is a school I really believe in, having witnessed the reality of its teachings for myself. Nonetheless, I apologize for the way I spoke.

These forums are for learning, and I believe we can all learn a great deal from each other, regardless of our affiliations with traditions or even conflicting world-views and philosophies. If we can refrain from slandering each others beliefs and institutions and stick to proper discussion (this goes for what Veos said about AMORC as well), then this place will remain the vibrant forum for exchanging ideas and opinions it was meant to be. In future I'll do better in terms of not letting my personal feelings taint a rational discussion. I think that is something we can all strive for and achieve here.

Bowing out for real this time   :wink:

God Bless, and Be Victorious.

This was your apology BEFORE you started smiting my karma frequently, if you think anyone believes your seemingly humble apologies you back-stabbing disgusting snake, you are mistaken ;-), you are just trying to look better, "hollier than thou" as they say.

How do you like the fact that both you and IIHbuddy89, so enlightenment seeking, are on the same level of communication as me, an animalistic beast that doesn't seek personal improvement, but only power? Only difference between us is that I do not play on the enlightenment note, Ekstatikos.

P.S. Self-balancing, ego is evil, eclectic... If that isn't a definition of New Age that buddy so much hates, then I do not know what is :D

April 13, 2016, 02:24:58 AM
Reply #335

IIHbuddy89

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Akenu i know this is one of your biggest problem that you feel that who learn Theurgy or high-magick are look down on inviduals who not (like you), but this was never the case actually.

So if you feel better, yeah we are on the same level of communication, though it's not a "who communicates better" contest or something. Or even a question who worth more...

ANYWAY, some good read for the "victims":  :biggrin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

http://markmanson.net/are-you-an-emotional-vampire


Some quote from the last article:

Quote
Hereís a quick quiz for you to take. Answer the following questions. Be as honest as possible:

    Do you feel that people often donít (or canít) understand you or your problems?
    Do you feel that there are many barriers in your life which you have no control over?
    Do you often ask for help from others and/or feel like few people are willing to help you?
    Do you feel like you often donít receive the attention or appreciation that you deserve?
    Do people often complain that you donít listen to them, when in fact, you feel like they donít listen to you?
    Do you feel like most other people have lives that are much easier than yours?
    Do you fight with close friends and loved ones often?
    If so, is it usually their fault?
    Do people suddenly drop contact with you with no explanation and refuse to communicate with you again?
    Do you often feel helpless, like you have little opportunity to improve your life?


Are you an emotional vampire?

If you answered ďyesĒ to more than half of the questions above, then please read this post carefully....

Worth reading the whole thing...

April 13, 2016, 02:35:37 AM
Reply #336

Rodz

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That was one of the things that really turned me away from TDS - watching people react to the emergence of the Murawsky's and Rodz/his brother (sorry, typing PeoplesChampion over and over is a bit much) and not being able to summon up so much as a drop of sympathy.

Maybe because you behave like assholes. Think about it.  :wink:

Quote
It's even to the point people who have they verbally abused, insult, or even lie about come crawling back to them.

See? You start to sound even lamer than 3rd wave feminists. Just they use the word "rape" instead of "abuse" for anything they don't like.

Nobody got abused. Get over your huge ago and stop crying please. Move on with your life. Let it go...

Also who forced you to learn Theurgy exactly? There are sooo many traditions out there that not even utilize any energetic practise at all that can be "harmful" for your body (or for your ego).

Seriously it's like somebody wants to learn how to lift heavy weights, though his arm is seriously injured already.

It won't work! And of course you would blame the trainer in this case also i guess.

You people do this every time and like agonizing for lifetimes how they mistreated you special snowflakes, when actually it's common sense to take into consideration of the risks of a given practise!

Self-pity can be educational but for how long? Wouldn't it be better for you guys to just let go your anger?

I wish all of you guys a fullfilling and happy life on an other path, but seriously stop using Veritas as a facebook page for hunting for people's likes and symphathy...

This whole tds-sanctuary sect that starts emerging is like attention seeking behavior for "special" inviduals...


P.S: anyway thanks Rodz, but i'm not interested in "Daoist Magic"...but maybe i will look into it in the future

Kemetin hasn't been an asshole at all... Have you read your own posts dude? Look for example how you are treating Justin who was a disabled vet at the time and while is doing better is still recovering. Kemetin has valid points and you earlier stated that you are not TDS. I hate to break it to you but even when I was in the school Veos and Ramose have said students do reflect the school. I hope you remember this lecture Friendship as it happened when I was a local. The abuse he refers to was not just in his case but others as well.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 03:46:08 AM by Rodz »

April 13, 2016, 02:40:05 AM
Reply #337

Akenu

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Akenu i know this is one of your biggest problem that you feel that who learn Theurgy or high-magick are look down on inviduals who not (like you), but this was never the case actually.

It's not like I feel it, it's like I see it. And just to point out something, I do not follow a philosophy that directs me to compassion towards my enemies. I believe that for one who wants to know love, he must know the hate, I say hate your enemies with your whole heart, because love should be used only for those close to you, not be wasted on people who do not deserve it.

Quote
So if you feel better, yeah we are on the same level of communication, though it's not a "who communicates better" contest or something. Or even a question who worth more...
It's not like I feel better (or worse), amused would be a better way to describe it :D

Quote
ANYWAY, some good read for the "victims":  :biggrin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

http://markmanson.net/are-you-an-emotional-vampire


Some quote from the last article:

Quote
Hereís a quick quiz for you to take. Answer the following questions. Be as honest as possible:

    Do you feel that people often donít (or canít) understand you or your problems? NO
    Do you feel that there are many barriers in your life which you have no control over? NO
    Do you often ask for help from others and/or feel like few people are willing to help you? NO
    Do you feel like you often donít receive the attention or appreciation that you deserve? NO
    Do people often complain that you donít listen to them, when in fact, you feel like they donít listen to you? YES
    Do you feel like most other people have lives that are much easier than yours? NO
    Do you fight with close friends and loved ones often? NO
    If so, is it usually their fault? NO
    Do people suddenly drop contact with you with no explanation and refuse to communicate with you again? NO
    Do you often feel helpless, like you have little opportunity to improve your life? NO


Are you an emotional vampire?

If you answered ďyesĒ to more than half of the questions above, then please read this post carefully....

Worth reading the whole thing...


I did answer the questions for you, but as they say, these types of questions do not work on psychotic people.

April 13, 2016, 04:09:43 AM
Reply #338

Kemetin

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Maybe because you behave like assholes. Think about it.  :wink:

Are we speaking singular, or plural? If you have a specific example where I personally behave like an asshole, feel free to bring it up and we'll talk it out.

If you're lumping me in with the Murawsky's or Julian/Justin, or with others who have associated with them or posted on their blog, simply because I'm also offering criticism of TDS (I would aim to make the criticism more constructive in nature if I thought for a second that TDS was open to any kind of feedback), please take a minute to reflect on the  kind of tribalism and black and white, us v. them thinking you're falling into, because I've never contributed to the blog (I've actually critiqued it heavily since it's emergence, for various reasons), I've never interacted with the Murawsky's at all (beyond Daniel's tenure as the main tech support guy on the old TDS website), and my interaction with Julian and Justin is limited to a few responses to their posts here on Veritas and a brief PM conversation with Justin last year, when I was still a TDS student.

In short, I am not in any way part of the "TDSSanctuary crew," or otherwise associated with some group aiming at bringing down TDS, merely because I've been more openly critical of TDS since my departure.

Finally, someone behaving like an asshole isn't a reason to to neglect to sympathize with their pain and with their struggles - the ability to dislike someone's behavior and still understand the reason for it and feel pity for that person's suffering is the mark of a genuinely evolved and compassionate soul, and that kind of cliqueish, schoolyard bullying behavior is beneath someone claiming to be a spiritual aspirant.

April 13, 2016, 06:15:26 AM
Reply #339

freeDspirit

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It's just unfortunate to see this all happening. Both sides are just going a bit too far now and getting out of control. I thought we are all brothers and sisters of truth, what has happened here?

Anyway I just hope everyone can just move on from whatever has happened, accept that things will remain as it is and it's best to focus on what you were born to do, to know thyself.

Just let TDS do what they want and let TDS Sanctuary do what they want. What's the problem with that? Why come and argue on here?

There a better things to focus on than speak to each other like this, peace and love won't come out of trying to prove to each other who is right or wrong but rather from acceptance and forgiveness. If everyone involved with whatever happened practiced acceptance and forgiveness all this would not have happened and this thread would not have even started.

I hope that makes sense.

Anyway I've tried so I hope you all find peace and are able to fully focus on your truth journey.

God bless guys.



« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 04:14:47 PM by freeDspirit »

April 13, 2016, 06:46:41 AM
Reply #340

drm

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April 27, 2016, 01:38:34 AM
Reply #341

Akenu

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April 27, 2016, 12:21:50 PM
Reply #342

IIHbuddy89

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April 27, 2016, 09:03:59 PM
Reply #343

Steve

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Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

April 28, 2016, 01:14:00 AM
Reply #344

Akenu

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Fuck the video title, check the video, it's very interesting.