Author Topic: The Divine Science (TDS) Ramose (Prophecy) and Veos- Open discussion  (Read 40027 times)

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April 12, 2016, 07:10:51 AM
Reply #270

Akenu

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@Ekstatikos: My problem is that the school is few years old, it doesn't really inherit any ancient lineage, it doesn't have any document proving it follows a hermetic tradition (or yogic), its courses are not based on ancient wisdom, but on experimentation on its students. First students were told to X, second generation of students was told Y is the right thing and now we have Z if I count correctly. That's something a peer group should do and based on general agreement, not playing freaky with gullible students and each time telling them this is the heritage of ancient lineages. That school is fucking young and being led by 2 young twins that never even visited a real occultist, yet they claim extraordinary hermetic and alchemic knowledge including the philosopher's stone.

They don't set out to provide documents or proof of lineage. The proof is supposedly in the pudding, as it were - and people have had success with their techniques. So an institution cannot improve itself over time? Even then, I think you're misrepresenting how much the practices have changed; besides the addition of a new preliminary practice, everything is pretty much as it was several years ago. What are you basing the claim that they've never visited a 'real occultist' on? Nothing. Not indulging this anymore though - you are welcome to believe what you want about TDS, you weren't there nearly long enough to form an even slightly credible opinion.

Ekstatikos, if twins ever met a serious occultist with decades under his belt, they would get smacked the moment they mentioned the school. As for your improvement over time... Yes, sure, certainly, I agree. But even if they improved themselves to the point where they can teleport instantly, the heritage claim is still a lie, isn't it?

As for the amount of changes, I guess I should no longer take IIHbuddy89 as a credible source on TDS related information... or actually anything (one of the pms from him that he didn't publish spoke about how BIG these changes were, how everything is completely overdone and how HAPPY everyone is now... and that no teachers left :D)

April 12, 2016, 07:31:46 AM
Reply #271

FriendshipIsMagick

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@Ekstatikos: My problem is that the school is few years old, it doesn't really inherit any ancient lineage, it doesn't have any document proving it follows a hermetic tradition (or yogic), its courses are not based on ancient wisdom, but on experimentation on its students. First students were told to X, second generation of students was told Y is the right thing and now we have Z if I count correctly. That's something a peer group should do and based on general agreement, not playing freaky with gullible students and each time telling them this is the heritage of ancient lineages. That school is fucking young and being led by 2 young twins that never even visited a real occultist, yet they claim extraordinary hermetic and alchemic knowledge including the philosopher's stone.

They don't set out to provide documents or proof of lineage. The proof is supposedly in the pudding, as it were - and people have had success with their techniques. So an institution cannot improve itself over time? Even then, I think you're misrepresenting how much the practices have changed; besides the addition of a new preliminary practice, everything is pretty much as it was several years ago. What are you basing the claim that they've never visited a 'real occultist' on? Nothing. Not indulging this anymore though - you are welcome to believe what you want about TDS, you weren't there nearly long enough to form an even slightly credible opinion.

Ekstatikos, if twins ever met a serious occultist with decades under his belt, they would get smacked the moment they mentioned the school. As for your improvement over time... Yes, sure, certainly, I agree. But even if they improved themselves to the point where they can teleport instantly, the heritage claim is still a lie, isn't it?

As for the amount of changes, I guess I should no longer take IIHbuddy89 as a credible source on TDS related information... or actually anything (one of the pms from him that he didn't publish spoke about how BIG these changes were, how everything is completely overdone and how HAPPY everyone is now... and that no teachers left :D)

@Ekstatikos: My problem is that the school is few years old, it doesn't really inherit any ancient lineage, it doesn't have any document proving it follows a hermetic tradition (or yogic), its courses are not based on ancient wisdom, but on experimentation on its students. First students were told to X, second generation of students was told Y is the right thing and now we have Z if I count correctly. That's something a peer group should do and based on general agreement, not playing freaky with gullible students and each time telling them this is the heritage of ancient lineages. That school is fucking young and being led by 2 young twins that never even visited a real occultist, yet they claim extraordinary hermetic and alchemic knowledge including the philosopher's stone.

They don't set out to provide documents or proof of lineage. The proof is supposedly in the pudding, as it were - and people have had success with their techniques. So an institution cannot improve itself over time? Even then, I think you're misrepresenting how much the practices have changed; besides the addition of a new preliminary practice, everything is pretty much as it was several years ago. What are you basing the claim that they've never visited a 'real occultist' on? Nothing. Not indulging this anymore though - you are welcome to believe what you want about TDS, you weren't there nearly long enough to form an even slightly credible opinion.

Ekstatikos, if twins ever met a serious occultist with decades under his belt, they would get smacked the moment they mentioned the school. As for your improvement over time... Yes, sure, certainly, I agree. But even if they improved themselves to the point where they can teleport instantly, the heritage claim is still a lie, isn't it?

As for the amount of changes, I guess I should no longer take IIHbuddy89 as a credible source on TDS related information... or actually anything (one of the pms from him that he didn't publish spoke about how BIG these changes were, how everything is completely overdone and how HAPPY everyone is now... and that no teachers left :D)

Akenu, you really have no idea, and no amount of proof would convince you, even were it to be laid in front of you, so, while I am aware of the identities of several of Ramose and Veos's teachers, as well as from where the various strands of our lineage delineate, and have seen often mind-blowing proof of it, it's best not to cast pearls before swine. If you were able to humble yourself enough and actually give the school a shot, you might actually experience the power of this lineage first-hand, as many have. Nothing on paper will ever come close to such first-hand knowledge. And as far as credibility goes, I really think this is a case of the speck/plank parable: I've read some of your "curriculum," and I hardly consider you qualified to critique anyone else's teachings.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 07:36:03 AM by FriendshipIsMagick »

April 12, 2016, 07:40:52 AM
Reply #272

Akenu

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@Ekstatikos: My problem is that the school is few years old, it doesn't really inherit any ancient lineage, it doesn't have any document proving it follows a hermetic tradition (or yogic), its courses are not based on ancient wisdom, but on experimentation on its students. First students were told to X, second generation of students was told Y is the right thing and now we have Z if I count correctly. That's something a peer group should do and based on general agreement, not playing freaky with gullible students and each time telling them this is the heritage of ancient lineages. That school is fucking young and being led by 2 young twins that never even visited a real occultist, yet they claim extraordinary hermetic and alchemic knowledge including the philosopher's stone.

They don't set out to provide documents or proof of lineage. The proof is supposedly in the pudding, as it were - and people have had success with their techniques. So an institution cannot improve itself over time? Even then, I think you're misrepresenting how much the practices have changed; besides the addition of a new preliminary practice, everything is pretty much as it was several years ago. What are you basing the claim that they've never visited a 'real occultist' on? Nothing. Not indulging this anymore though - you are welcome to believe what you want about TDS, you weren't there nearly long enough to form an even slightly credible opinion.

Ekstatikos, if twins ever met a serious occultist with decades under his belt, they would get smacked the moment they mentioned the school. As for your improvement over time... Yes, sure, certainly, I agree. But even if they improved themselves to the point where they can teleport instantly, the heritage claim is still a lie, isn't it?

As for the amount of changes, I guess I should no longer take IIHbuddy89 as a credible source on TDS related information... or actually anything (one of the pms from him that he didn't publish spoke about how BIG these changes were, how everything is completely overdone and how HAPPY everyone is now... and that no teachers left :D)

Akenu, you really have no idea, and no amount of proof would convince you, even were it to be laid in front of you, so, while I am aware of the identities of several of Ramose and Veos's teachers, as well as from where the various strands of our lineage delineate, and have seen often mind-blowing proof of it, it's best not to cast pearls before swine. If you were able to humble yourself enough and actually give the school a shot, you might actually experience the power of this lineage first-hand, as many have. Nothing on paper will ever come close to such first-hand knowledge. And as far as credibility goes, I really think this is a case of the speck/plank parable: I've read some of your "curriculum," and I hardly consider you qualified to critique anyone else's teachings.

Oh, I love that. First of all, I already gave the school a shot, secondly I would be very interesting of mind-blowing proofs (the curriculum you TDS'ers love to mock teaches e.g. how to summon a being into physical manifestation), and thirdly: For hermetic orders it is very common to be officially accepted, therefore having needed document. Being arrogant prick is not proof of being in the official hermetic lineage.

And once again, lineage is lineage and heritage is heritage. If your teachers can teleport, bilocate, breathe fire, that's all great, but they are still not official part of any lineage AND the whole lineage part is just a stupid lie and pretending to be something it isn't. It's ok to be new, the best school could have been built yesterday and I believe Quareia clearly shows what can be done in a small timeframe.

April 12, 2016, 08:04:37 AM
Reply #273

Shinichi

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Oh, my. It's already that time of year again? Lemme just get some popcorn and start reading.



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

April 12, 2016, 08:17:18 AM
Reply #274

IIHbuddy89

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I've read some of your "curriculum," and I hardly consider you qualified to critique anyone else's teachings.

Ouch again.

See Akenu. Even others see that your magickal curriculum is a crap.  :biggrin:

So you are the last person who can mention credibility here or anything honestly.


April 12, 2016, 08:20:14 AM
Reply #275

Akenu

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I've read some of your "curriculum," and I hardly consider you qualified to critique anyone else's teachings.

Ouch again.

See Akenu. Even others see that your magickal curriculum is a crap.  :biggrin:

So you are the last person who can mention credibility here or anything honestly.

:D. IIHbuddy, please, I know TDS'ers are not very bright, but now you act like sorority girls :D

April 12, 2016, 09:11:49 AM
Reply #276

Rodz

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Friendship, what are your thoughts on what Kemetin said?

April 12, 2016, 09:26:36 AM
Reply #277

Kemetin

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Kemetin,

For the most part I agree. My point was not to try to imply that more precautions could/should not have been stated, but simply to counter the idea that no risks were mentioned, which simply isn't true. I don't think the TDS staff were as negligent as some people are claiming


This is where things get tricky though, because we walk into the murky waters of anecdote. Whether you believe, for example, that they were as foolhardily neglectful as PeoplesChampion claims they were to him in his case, is largely a matter of the degree to which you trust his word as weighed against the degree to which your personal image of Ramose and Veos allows for such behavior.

When multiple people come out, making claims which more or less line up with both eachother and with my own observations and personal experience, I tend to think they're worth taking serious.

Quote
- on the other hand I would agree that there is certainly room for improvement in this area - an entire lecture on risks, precautions and contraindications would be a welcome addition indeed. Is this going to happen? I can't say.


I very much doubt it, I raised the idea to Ramose and he blew it off, I can't remember his reasoning. The twins have never been very interested in the opinions of the hoi polloi that I've noticed.



Quote
Everything in life carries risk, and I think responsibility must be admitted on both ends, for sure. I definitely think TDS can learn from all of this. I think a large part of the problem is that the approach (not the techniques) TDS has is entirely novel; teaching Theurgy online for Western students - this is a really new and unique endeavour, and I think it's not surprising that there are going to be many, many growing pains. TDS is, in that sense, a work in progress, and I think people who don't like the possible risks involved in works in progress simply shouldn't take the risk. Mistakes will be made, and people are going to have to endure some difficulty. If someone does not think that is worth it, that is up to them to decide sooner rather than later.


It's the question of who's going to be the one who make the mistakes and who's going to be the one suffering the subsequent "difficulty" that makes me wonder. Certainly the formula seems to run in one direction only at the moment.

I would hold a bit more appreciation for the "work in progress" argument if they were, for starters, even slightly open to feedback, a bit more willing to admit error and perhaps a bit more humble and a bit less grandiose. But they aren't, I suspect because that would run contrary to the image they cultivate of themselves (at least within the school, to the affirming ears of their students) as great masters on a mission to "take the Western spiritual world by storm."

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If someone will counter that on the contrary, TDS has always touted how perfect it is, well, that hasn't been my experience. The TDS staff certainly believe in their system and their methods, and I think they are justified in doing so based on the success they have had.

Again we come back to statements that don't necessarily have anything to back them up. "The success they've had." What success? How much? I ask these questions not because I believe they've failed, but because people seemingly say the school has been successful because they are told that the school is successful by the people most invested (in every sense) in it's success.

Personally I think it's far too early for talk of success or failure, in the overall sense, to be anything but either hype or naysaying. Maybe in another decade or three, we'll see how events bear out, but in spiritual terms, 8 years isn't much more than a few grains of sand slipping through the hourglass.

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However, I've heard many times from the staff that teaching Western students online in the way they are doing it is a work in progress, and that in many respects, they are in uncharted territory.

I don't think this is any excuse to so blatantly ignore obvious problems, and again it feels rather thin when any attempts at feedback or constructive criticism fall on deaf ears.

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I don't think Akenu's allegation that this means they are 'experimenting' on their students holds water - at least not in terms of the general roster of techniques and teachings.

I'm not so sure - I'd be the first to acknowledge that Akenu is less than rational on the subject of TDS (sorry, but it's true), but it's hard to deny that the word applies to a degree. What else can you call it when you take a combination of shuffled eclectic exercises from other systems and new exercises put together by the teachers, combine them into a new and untried system of spiritual development and then apply it to a batch of students? It isn't even the same training regime as the one that the twins used to develop their own initial attainment, and the training regime they offer has changed multiple times over the years (even just over the years that I was a member).

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However there is always a degree of personal responsibility involved in any endeavour - placing all the blame on one or the other end is misguided, in my opinion.

I agree, but I've yet to hear any of the TDS teachers take so much as an ounce of responsibility for any of the problems people have had while in the school (and I've heard one of them in particular reject it vehemently) - always they were the heroic, innocent victims of attacks from former students who just turned on them out of spite or some mental imbalance.

I've read what the Sanctuary people have to say, and corresponded with a couple of them, and while I think I've made it abundantly clear that I don't approve of many of their methods, it seems obvious to me that at least some of them are or were undergoing a great deal of suffering, and that suffering would not have taken place in the form it did if it weren't for TDS and their experiences there. To just deny that suffering and reject all sympathy, and instead rewrite it as maliciousness or instability is a rather horrible way to treat people who were supposedly friends and students for such a long time.

It really is a distasteful attitude from people who I expected to take the high ground. I was there, eg. for the famous empowerment video (the one which was posted on the TDSSanctuary blog*, where Veos claims, among other things, that if students have experienced any metaphysical phenomena then they should never have reason to doubt the school or the teachers**, and that the idea of someone setting up a spiritual school for personal and emotional gratification is proposterous, a notion the people at the blog quite rightly pointed out the absurdity of), and it was a huge part of what tipped me over from "wait and see if the school improves" to "get me out of here!" I was hoping this would be the moment that he would step up and act with some wisdom, some compassion, and instead I just groaned my way through it.

*and act I do not agree with, for the record.

**Ironically, I had a powerful clairvoyant experience during the empowerment. Still didn't change how disappointed I was in his inability to accept a single drop of responsibility for everything that had happened.

Quote
  If we think about it, magic (or at least the level of magic TDS is aiming at) is an incredibly demanding endeavour actually fraught with risks. Maybe TDS would do well to point this out more explicitly, and maybe those who decide to undertake the Great Work should realize that no one ever said it was going to be easy - and ultimately, no one can overcome for you those obstacles and karmas that are decreed by fate. In magic, even in the context of a school, only you are finally responsible for yourself and your wellbeing. Things are going to go wrong, sometimes spectacularly. Instructors should apply due diligence, and TDS can definitely make some improvement in this regard, but even with complete diligence some things will still go wrong - this, in my own opinion, is simply the nature of the true spiritual path. It's a journey as tasking as it is rewarding, and ultimately it is a journey taken alone, obstacles, trials and all. As the Dhammapada teaches: “You yourselves must strive; the Buddhas only point the way.”

Of course things will go wrong, but I think when someone accepts the role of teacher, they take it upon themselves to do everything in their power to maximize the students chance of success. On a more mundane level, I think the school would be a lot more successful and surrounded by a lot less drama if they were a little less stiff necked, a little more open to the possibility that they could make mistakes, even major ones, and a little more willing to admit it.

A passage from the very first lecture always stuck with me in my early days:

Quote
"Right now a brilliant opportunity, as rare as the perfect pearl, is knocking on your door. If you let us serve you, we will make this all real to you. We will animate those empty words you have been reading from old books and archaic grimoires. We will light a fire in your life that will melt the stiff snow of stagnancy and sorrow. We will make your life a magical thing, so that every day is better than the last. I promise you that, if you just let us, we will turn ourselves inside out for you. Know, therefore, that from this point forward, as long as you are genuine about your desire to find God and perfect yourself, there will be someone thinking about you, toiling over you, and caring for you.
This is the Holy Science, and we will spend all of our power during this class making it more real to you than you could have ever imagined.
Fraternally in the Light,
Your humble servant,
Ramose Daskalodos"

I was incredibly disappointed to discover in due time that, far from having someone thinking over me, toiling over me and caring for me, I had multiple someone's who barely had the time of day for me when I needed them most, who had little time and less sympathy for me when I was struggling seriously on the path, and who appeared to value maintaining their image as wise masters over humble themselves enough to admit to error or wrongdoing in any real way.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 09:37:52 AM by Kemetin »

April 12, 2016, 09:37:49 AM
Reply #278

FriendshipIsMagick

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Friendship, what are your thoughts on what Kemetin said?

About what, specifically?

April 12, 2016, 09:46:29 AM
Reply #279

Ekstatikos

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Well Kemetin, then your experience has been very different from mine.

I think I've said everything I've wanted to say this time round.

TDS will continue to be called home by many spiritual seekers, and will continue to have success (students achieving the goals that the school sets out to help them achieve), and in fact improve. Hopefully the school will take steps to place more emphasis on precautions, but ultimately, nothing can shield anyone from their own fate, and no one can walk the path for you, or overcome its obstacles for you.

Some will benefit from TDS and some won't. That's life. If I'm being a bit flippant then so be it, this whole thing is a bit tiring. For someone who has benefited as much from TDS as I have, there's no real point in trying to argue with someone who hasn't had that experience. I like TDS's style, their curriculum, and probably most of all the community. I have absolutely no problem with the fact that there are people who really don't. It's fine. There are many, many other places to go - I just happen to like this one, and it's worked exceedingly well for me, and that's really all the justification I need.

People who want to hold on to anger and vengeance will do that, and see how it works out for them. Maybe a few years spent in a spiritual school that wasn't for you isn't such a terrible thing, even if your health and/or ego suffered a bit for it. As far as I can tell everyone recovered anyway, so let's have some perspective. These are rather tame first world aspirant's problems, none of us here know true suffering. That being said, I truly hope that everyone who was or felt hurt recovers fully, and that they are able to move on and find true peace, health and happiness.

And, hopefully, the Veritas Magick forum will some day have meaningful activity apart from endless, circular TDS discussions.

This has been fun, as usual (I'll take a heated debate about magic over any conversation about mundane things any day lol), but I'm bowing out now. God Bless.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 12, 2016, 09:58:39 AM
Reply #280

ArcaTuthus

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It is disappointing that students from all walks on the path to knowledge are treating each other this way at all. The disregard on my fellow students part in some cases of legitimate concerns is ridiculous, as well as taking to petty argument over such a serious subject. The coloring of all of us at TDS by others is also extremely disappointing, especially since there are some of us who are doing our best to be civil and kind and truly listen.

Am I the only one that sees how disappointing this all is? There is a real discussion that could be had here, but it isn't happening because we can't seem to get our collective shit together? I don't like to post often over here, because I know that everything I say is colored by the fact I am a student of TDS with good experiences. That is not right, just as it isn't right, and I quote Ramose here "to be upset over someone else's search for truth just because it involves us and is inconvenient to our beliefs". I have good experiences, and have had, and continue to have, good experiences, so the fact that other people have not had good experiences doesn't shake me. It does, however, make me concerned. As it should!!! there are things that could be addressed, but the fact is, as far as I have seen, they are addressed. I personally had some physical things come up, serious things, and the advice given me by all the teachers was "Go See A Doctor", and I have seen the same advice given out to other students. So that needs to be a fact that is out there, but, at the same time the philosophy that the various occult bodies affect each other is taught. So that is there as well, but it isn't new to learning in an occult science environment. There does have to be a certain amount of personal responsibility, an accountability for our own decisions, that needs to be addressed as well. That being said, the experiences that those have had that are negative are not invalid just because we didn't experience them, that is just ridiculous. I don't believe a single person from TDS here in this thread has the experience or authority to say otherwise.

The conduct of some of us from TDS is in direct opposition to the philosophy of ethics we learn. It does not defend the school or help anyone to be up in arms this way, even if those who disagree with us are up in arms. They have their reasons! We should be listening, discussing with compassion and understanding. Trying to come together, as people, all of us on a path to knowledge. This is how dogma and sectarianism bleed into well meaning groups and I find it appalling.

Again I don't say much, I don't feel very welcome on this forum, and that is sad. I choose to do what progresses me on MY path, and this stuff doesn't help. Although, it does concern me. Why aren't we worried about the well being of everyone like we should be? I don't know. I just don't know.

We are all trying to be better people are we not? We can't help each other in that regard? Why not?

(edit)I wanted to add that it is difficult for me personally, to engage, because of the general hostile environment here. Although I would always like to discuss with everyone their thoughts and experiences, the hostility makes it hard especially when ALL of my experiences within the school are contrary to the negative ones. Maybe we could all take this into account? That our own experiences are not every experience, and that we all share a humanity that should be our main point of contact. We shouldn't be saying "there are no victims" or "I know TDSers are not bright"... that is some real kindergarten shit.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 10:20:52 AM by ArcaTuthus »
And how!

April 12, 2016, 10:20:44 AM
Reply #281

Rodz

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Friendship, what are your thoughts on what Kemetin said?

About what, specifically?

All his criticisms, I noticed you ignored them. As a teacher representing TDS, what are your thoughts on his criticisms?


It is disappointing that students from all walks on the path to knowledge are treating each other this way at all. The disregard on my fellow students part in some cases of legitimate concerns is ridiculous, as well as taking to petty argument over such a serious subject. The coloring of all of us at TDS by others is also extremely disappointing, especially since there are some of us who are doing our best to be civil and kind and truly listen.

Am I the only one that sees how disappointing this all is? There is a real discussion that could be had here, but it isn't happening because we can't seem to get our collective shit together? I don't like to post often over here, because I know that everything I say is colored by the fact I am a student of TDS with good experiences. That is not right, just as it isn't right, and I quote Ramose here "to be upset over someone else's search for truth just because it involves us and is inconvenient to our beliefs". I have good experiences, and have had, and continue to have, good experiences, so the fact that other people have not had good experiences doesn't shake me. It does, however, make me concerned. As it should!!! there are things that could be addressed, but the fact is, as far as I have seen, they are addressed. I personally had some physical things come up, serious things, and the advice given me by all the teachers was "Go See A Doctor", and I have seen the same advice given out to other students. So that needs to be a fact that is out there, but, at the same time the philosophy that the various occult bodies affect each other is taught. So that is there as well, but it isn't new to learning in an occult science environment. There does have to be a certain amount of personal responsibility, an accountability for our own decisions, that needs to be addressed as well. That being said, the experiences that those have had that are negative are not invalid just because we didn't experience them, that is just ridiculous. I don't believe a single person from TDS here in this thread has the experience or authority to say otherwise.

The conduct of some of us from TDS is in direct opposition to the philosophy of ethics we learn. It does not defend the school or help anyone to be up in arms this way, even if those who disagree with us are up in arms. They have their reasons! We should be listening, discussing with compassion and understanding. Trying to come together, as people, all of us on a path to knowledge. This is how dogma and sectarianism bleed into well meaning groups and I find it appalling.

Again I don't say much, I don't feel very welcome on this forum, and that is sad. I choose to do what progresses me on MY path, and this stuff doesn't help. Although, it does concern me. Why aren't we worried about the well being of everyone like we should be? I don't know. I just don't know.

We are all trying to be better people are we not? We can't help each other in that regard? Why not?

(edit)I wanted to add that it is difficult for me personally, to engage, because of the general hostile environment here. Although I would always like to discuss with everyone their thoughts and experiences, the hostility makes it hard especially when ALL of my experiences within the school are contrary to the negative ones. Maybe we could all take this into account? That our own experiences are not every experience, and that we all share a humanity that should be our main point of contact. We shouldn't be saying "there are no victims" or "I know TDSers are not bright"... that is some real kindergarten shit.

I wish the teachers took your example. You are what a spiritual teacher should be like. I hope Esktstikos and Friendship can learn from you as they are teachers and you are seeing first hand how they are. I am not admitting I am perfect myself, but you have first hand seen what happens with most people who have a negative experience. They get treated quite poorly.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 10:30:40 AM by Rodz »

April 12, 2016, 10:38:26 AM
Reply #282

ArcaTuthus

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We all need to learn from each other, no one is perfect. If they were, that perfect person should be teaching us all hahaha! I know it doesn't mean a whole lot, but the concern for all of us, all of you, is genuinely expressed to me by my teachers in the school. I only take after them as a student, I see no reason to fight with anyone. I have a genuine concern for the well being of everyone, but especially those whose lives are affected by things I am involved in. I take you seriously. I take my peers seriously, and I take my teachers seriously.

And how!

April 12, 2016, 10:46:51 AM
Reply #283

IIHbuddy89

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When i'm saying "there are no victims" i mean "victim" is a bit strong word for a few peoples' negative experiences don't you think?

I mean this is not a murder case...people are throwing phrases like "THE VICTIMS" like someone got killed or something.


April 12, 2016, 10:57:49 AM
Reply #284

Steve

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Death is not the only form of victim, IIHBuddy. Stop exaggerating the same way that Rodz and Akenu are.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?