Author Topic: The Divine Science (TDS) Ramose (Prophecy) and Veos- Open discussion  (Read 40074 times)

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April 11, 2016, 01:04:41 PM
Reply #225

FriendshipIsMagick

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Ok FriendshipisMagick. You are saying you are here to give an insider view of the other side.

Could you please discuss how the school is going for you now and maybe even a testimonial or similar of your experience with the school?

Also what is your take on this TDS sanctuary? Have you witnessed anything of the likes which that blog explains in the school? How did the school or the teachers take the information or react to it? I know others have stated how the school and teachers reacted but I would.like to know your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks.

Sure! When I first met Ramose in Veos I was in a terrible place, both emotionally and physically. I cannot emphasize just how different that person was from who I am now. Through the practices and philosophy of TDS I have found myself healed and expanded in ways I thought I would die before experiencing. In fact, Ramose and Veos quite literally saved my life (but that's a long story for another time). Through TDS, I experienced an expeditious, ecstatic path full of constant magic and joy. I also know that magic is REAL. I did not settle on TDS until I had investigated a good handful of other orders and spiritual paths, and I to this day have still seen nothing quite like Ramose, Veos, and TDS. I could spend hours recounting the phenomena I have not only witnessed through and by Ramose and Veos and the masters of this lineage, but also through myself, and the practices prescribed in the school. If someone doubted magic's existence, or the truth of enlightenment, Ramose and Veos are the first people I direct them to. In fact (and please don't take this as a boast, but instead as a testament to the truth of my statement), I have introduced around 12 people to the school over the past 5 years, and only 2 or 3 have left. Their insight into everything is so incisive and wise that I am repeatedly floored by their aptitude. As far as specific instances of my experiences with them, I'd prefer if it was narrowed to particular faculties or phenomena, given the sheer volume of these occurrences.

As for the TDS Sanctuary, its falsehood borders on the absurd, particularly the most recent post, alleging that Ramose "abandoned" the school and that we had no idea where he was going. That is, frankly, complete swill, much like the rest of that article, particularly the "figures" they posted. As far as whether or not I have witnessed anything listed on the blog in the school, I would need specific examples to address. This specificity, along with my request for the same in relation to relating my experiences, is not an attempt at side-stepping, as I'd love to answer your questions; it's to prevent blanket statements like "everything on that site is wrong." This entire debate needs more nuance, and I think less blanket statements will help us towards that end.

In regards to Ramose and Veos's reactions to all of this: they were quite saddened by it all. I can't go into much more detail than that because I do not feel that it's my place to explain the feelings of others, particularly without their consent. They were hurt, and I'll leave it at that. After this whole thing, Ramose and Veos have altered the teaching structure a bit in order to try and mitigate these sorts of incidents. Most students were not led to leave the school by the allegations of TDS Sanctuary, and a lot of the students who did leave were convinced by backend propaganda incited by members of TDS Sanctuary, often through outlets like this site, Facebook groups, or personal messages. They have very avidly tried to turn many current students against Ramose and Veos, and there have been a couple times this has worked. Most of us can see through the vituperative rhetoric enough to know that it's biased, baseless, and fueled by a lot of hate - not good ingredients, especially when you take into account the illegal activities.

Let me know if you have any other questions, or specific questions as I mentioned earlier, and I'd be glad to answer :)

April 11, 2016, 01:06:34 PM
Reply #226

FriendshipIsMagick

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Also the video was not copyrighted as the website they hosted on was public. Something you forgot to mention ;) I remember now it was a link sent and the website was public. Way to paint Ramose and Veos like a victim. The link given was public in the outside video site. Public for others to use. I remember now because we looked at what was considered copyright on that site.

Yeah, this just isn't true. I think you might be out of exits.

April 11, 2016, 01:11:45 PM
Reply #227

Rodz

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Also the video was not copyrighted as the website they hosted on was public. Something you forgot to mention ;) I remember now it was a link sent and the website was public. Way to paint Ramose and Veos like a victim. The link given was public in the outside video site. Public for others to use. I remember now because we looked at what was considered copyright on that site.

Yeah, this just isn't true. I think you might be out of exits.

Like your baseless accusations of "illegal activity" and how "it simple isn't true"?

Sorry dude but look up your hosting site. That video was shown in public which was how anyone could have access to it. Hate to break it to you, but that is the truth of the matter.

This can be reduced to he said this and he said this and could go on forever. I have no issues exposing lies as I have in the other thread and will continue to do so. Also many left not due to "propaganda" but to us confirming how many felt in their hearts. Many students are quite fearful of leaving due to the "karmic backlash" of leaving your "true teachers". Magick have you forgotten when they said those stories?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 01:16:01 PM by Rodz »

April 11, 2016, 01:15:43 PM
Reply #228

FriendshipIsMagick

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I actually just lost track in the replies to respond to you. I wouldn't mind a bunch of acupuncturist not associated with the school to check the TDS student's pulses. That would be a nice test right there.
[/quote]

This has actually been done, and on myself, no less. I have had my pulse taken I'd say over 75 times by at least 15 (these are rough estimates, and the reason that it's so numerous is because I was going to a clinic at a school which meant that my pulse was being checked multiple times each session by both multiple heads/instructors of the school and students each session) in the last 8 months, and the consistent comment is just how strong and healthy my pulse is, something I never heard until I started practicing the Sanctuary meditations a couple years ago (practices that, among other things, start healing the organs and increasing vitality). Moreover, because of faculties I have developed from TDS practices, I am able to tell my acupuncturist where a channel ends and what organ it goes through when they put a pin in, as well as describe the energetic action of the point. For example, a needle was put in me not too long ago and I told the person treating me that when they put it in I felt a whole bunch of trapped chi release, then go through my heart as green energy. They were rather taken aback, as that specific needle's function was to release trapped chi and treat the wood element, represented by green, while also doing something to the heart (what specifically, I can't remember).

April 11, 2016, 01:17:33 PM
Reply #229

Rodz

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I actually just lost track in the replies to respond to you. I wouldn't mind a bunch of acupuncturist not associated with the school to check the TDS student's pulses. That would be a nice test right there.

This has actually been done, and on myself, no less. I have had my pulse taken I'd say over 75 times by at least 15 (these are rough estimates, and the reason that it's so numerous is because I was going to a clinic at a school which meant that my pulse was being checked multiple times each session by both multiple heads/instructoers of the school and students each session) in the last 8 months, and the consistent comment is just how strong and healthy my pulse is, something I never heard until I started practicing the Sanctuary meditations a couple years ago (practices that, among other things, start healing the organs and increasing vitality). Moreover, because of faculties I have developed from TDS practices, I am able to tell my acupuncturist where a channel ends and what organ it goes through when they put a pin in, as well as describe the energetic action of the point. For example, a needle was put in me not too long ago and I told the person treating me that when they put it in I felt a whole bunch of trapped chi release, then go through my heart as green energy. They were rather taken aback, as that specific needle's function was to release trapped chi and treat the wood element, represented by green, while also doing something to the heart (what specifically, I can't remember).
[/quote]

Kinda doubting you considering how much you have been lying.. at least Estakikos acknowledge some of the complaints as legitimate where you just blanket it under falsehood. I would definitely take what you say with a grain of salt.

April 11, 2016, 01:18:29 PM
Reply #230

FriendshipIsMagick

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I actually just lost track in the replies to respond to you. I wouldn't mind a bunch of acupuncturist not associated with the school to check the TDS student's pulses. That would be a nice test right there.

This has actually been done, and on myself, no less. I have had my pulse taken I'd say over 75 times by at least 15 (these are rough estimates, and the reason that it's so numerous is because I was going to a clinic at a school which meant that my pulse was being checked multiple times each session by both multiple heads/instructoers of the school and students each session) in the last 8 months, and the consistent comment is just how strong and healthy my pulse is, something I never heard until I started practicing the Sanctuary meditations a couple years ago (practices that, among other things, start healing the organs and increasing vitality). Moreover, because of faculties I have developed from TDS practices, I am able to tell my acupuncturist where a channel ends and what organ it goes through when they put a pin in, as well as describe the energetic action of the point. For example, a needle was put in me not too long ago and I told the person treating me that when they put it in I felt a whole bunch of trapped chi release, then go through my heart as green energy. They were rather taken aback, as that specific needle's function was to release trapped chi and treat the wood element, represented by green, while also doing something to the heart (what specifically, I can't remember).

Kinda doubting you considering how much you have been lying.. at least Estakikos acknowledge some of the complaints as legitimate where you just blanket it under falsehood. I would definitely take what you say with a grain of salt.
[/quote]

That's fine with me!

April 11, 2016, 01:20:15 PM
Reply #231

Rodz

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Anyways, people can see the extent of your honesty in the other thread listed. As much as you say you changed. I do not see it. Continue onward.

April 11, 2016, 01:20:43 PM
Reply #232

FriendshipIsMagick

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Anyways, people can see the extent of your honesty in the other thread listed. As much as you say you changed. I do not see it. Continue onward.

Okay!

April 11, 2016, 02:10:58 PM
Reply #233

Ekstatikos

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Kinda doubting you considering how much you have been lying.. at least Estakikos acknowledge some of the complaints as legitimate where you just blanket it under falsehood. I would definitely take what you say with a grain of salt.

I won't blame you for misrepresenting me again this time, since it's a fine point, but let me be clear: just because I acknowledge that someone believes themselves wronged legitimately (as opposed to say, making shit up in order to defame people HAS RAMOSE ABANDONED HIS STUDENTS???!!?!?!), that doesn't mean I believe that wrongdoing actually took place in the way described. Conversely, it doesn't mean I don't believe that that person did experience harm. However just because I do believe someone underwent suffering, and that they are at least justified in trying to explain how they believe that harm came to them, that does not mean I believe that that harm came to them in the exact way they describe it, especially if there is reason to suspect the contrary.

Now, combined with a general atmosphere of persecution (what I have previously referred to as a witch-hunt mentality) and various dodgy things done by people associated with the allegedly harmed party, that does unfortunately throw even more doubt on whether the wrongdoing actually took place in the way that the alleged victim is describing. Which is very unfortunate. If we want to be clear about the things that matter, like was someone hurt, if so how, and by whom, then it's better to drop the slandery and tabloidy shit, since it muddies the waters of the entire thing. Ultimately, I'd like to believe I'm on the side of justice as opposed to either this or that faction - as I said, in the highly unlikely event that even most of these allegations (or at least the most serious of them) hold water, I will gladly reverse my position on TDS's status as an institution of the highest calibre. However, since the evidence supporting the latter conclusion (in my personal experience) so far is extraordinary, it will probably take equally staggering revelations for me to accept the former idea.

Please see this as constructive criticism - I think the premise of tdssanctuary is relatively solid, that is, that magical orders should be held to a very high standard in terms of conduct - however, the way it is being done so far is just awful, and seeing people seriously trying to defend that kind of approach is very discomforting. If watcherofthedawn and tdssanctuary are indicative of the general state of critique in Western magic, this is a sorry state of affairs indeed. At least the former is tongue-in-cheek, whereas tdssanctuary seems almost blissfully unaware of how ridiculous they may appear to even the most casual observer. Again, I hope that this will be taken as constructive criticism and not misrepresented as some kind of attack or victim blaming, somehow.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 11, 2016, 02:20:55 PM
Reply #234

FriendshipIsMagick

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Kinda doubting you considering how much you have been lying.. at least Estakikos acknowledge some of the complaints as legitimate where you just blanket it under falsehood. I would definitely take what you say with a grain of salt.

I won't blame you for misrepresenting me again this time, since it's a fine point, but let me be clear: just because I acknowledge that someone believes themselves wronged legitimately (as opposed to say, making shit up in order to defame people HAS RAMOSE ABANDONED HIS STUDENTS???!!?!?!), that doesn't mean I believe that wrongdoing actually took place in the way described. Conversely, it doesn't mean I don't believe that that person did experience harm. However just because I do believe someone underwent suffering, and that they are at least justified in trying to explain how they believe that harm came to them, that does not mean I believe that that harm came to them in the exact way they describe it, especially if there is reason to suspect the contrary.

Now, combined with a general atmosphere of persecution (what I have previously referred to as a witch-hunt mentality) and various dodgy things done by people associated with the allegedly harmed party, that does unfortunately throw even more doubt on whether the wrongdoing actually took place in the way that the alleged victim is describing. Which is very unfortunate. If we want to be clear about the things that matter, like was someone hurt, if so how, and by whom, then it's better to drop the slandery and tabloidy shit, since it muddies the waters of the entire thing. Ultimately, I'd like to believe I'm on the side of justice as opposed to either this or that faction - as I said, in the highly unlikely event that even most of these allegations (or at least the most serious of them) hold water, I will gladly reverse my position on TDS's status as an institution of the highest calibre. However, since the evidence supporting the latter conclusion (in my personal experience) so far is extraordinary, it will probably take equally staggering revelations for me to accept the former idea.

Please see this as constructive criticism - I think the premise of tdssanctuary is relatively solid, that is, that magical orders should be held to a very high standard in terms of conduct - however, the way it is being done so far is just awful, and seeing people seriously trying to defend that kind of approach is very discomforting. If watcherofthedawn and tdssanctuary are indicative of the general state of critique in Western magic, this is a sorry state of affairs indeed. At least the former is tongue-in-cheek, whereas tdssanctuary seems almost blissfully unaware of how ridiculous they may appear to even the most casual observer. Again, I hope that this will be taken as constructive criticism and not misrepresented as some kind of attack or victim blaming, somehow.

Thank you for injecting some reason into this debate, Eksatikos. This is incredibly well-phrased, cogent, nuanced, and logical, and I absolutely couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully this sort of approach becomes a little more prevalent in subsequent discussion, but if you piss in one hand...

April 11, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Reply #235

freeDspirit

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TDs sanctuary had potential, but I don't really see that anymore. They are showing other options to the school which is a good idea and hopefully they focus on positive ways to move from a situation that didn't work for them and this would encourage the same mentality for others reading what they have to say. I might add that Martin Faulks might deserve a mention there.

Hopefully it continues this way and in an objective manner but it is difficult when emotions have been affected and I can understand why they have reacted this way as they also have valid points, but the manner in which it is being presented could have been better, I feel.

Nonetheless it has helped people to conduct further due diligence in their choice to learn from a school and that is a big plus point.

It still would be good to hear from a teacher from TDS as well so let's see what happens.

Thanks for everyone's input so far I'm sure it is helping others.

April 11, 2016, 02:23:09 PM
Reply #236

IIHbuddy89

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Again, I hope that this will be taken as constructive criticism and not misrepresented as some kind of attack or victim blaming, somehow.

Hard to blame the "victims" when there are no victims at all, only victim mentality...

April 11, 2016, 02:28:01 PM
Reply #237

FriendshipIsMagick

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TDs sanctuary had potential, but I don't really see that anymore. They are showing other options to the school which is a good idea and hopefully they focus on positive ways to move from a situation that didn't work for them and this would encourage the same mentality for others reading what they have to say. I might add that Martin Faulks might deserve a mention there.

Hopefully it continues this way and in an objective manner but it is difficult when emotions have been affected and I can understand why they have reacted this way as they also have valid points, but the manner in which it is being presented could have been better, I feel.

Nonetheless it has helped people to conduct further due diligence in their choice to learn from a school and that is a big plus point.

It still would be good to hear from a teacher from TDS as well so let's see what happens.

Thanks for everyone's input so far I'm sure it is helping others.

I was a teacher for two Probationer classes a couple years ago, but that is probably as close to a teacher as you're going to get addressing these issues on a personal level like this, because they are just too busy with other stuff, and these issues are largely in the rearview mirror now - they've moved on. I barely have the time to spend on this, but I felt moved to do so, and, unlike the teachers, who do not frequent Facebook groups where they are being disparaged, nor this site, when I run across the occasional anti-TDS sentiment, I will usually address it because I feel it is my duty to reflect a different facet of the matter.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 02:40:26 PM by FriendshipIsMagick »

April 11, 2016, 02:41:13 PM
Reply #238

Ekstatikos

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Again, I hope that this will be taken as constructive criticism and not misrepresented as some kind of attack or victim blaming, somehow.

Hard to blame the "victims" when there are no victims at all, only victim mentality...

That's not fair, kind or tactful. And a moderator previously cautioned against this kind of thing, so be careful. While I admit that there may be aspects of victim mentality going on here, that doesn't take away from the fact that people suffered and are justified in trying to hold those they believe responsible accountable. Whether or not those people are responsible for said suffering is, as we can clearly tell, still up for debate, but sweeping statements like this don't help. I understand that you strongly disagree with many of the views expressed by those who feel they were hurt, but that doesn't mean you should wholly suspend your sense of empathy. Except towards Akenu. Akenu deserves everything that's coming to him (jk jk :D)


It still would be good to hear from a teacher from TDS as well so let's see what happens.

This post will probably be the closest to what you are looking for, it's from a TDS assistant-teacher ('Daskalos' in TDS's terminology), responding to a previous thread on this same general topic back in October 2015: http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,22156.msg224066.html#msg224066

Take into account, of course, that a lot has happened since then.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

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To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 11, 2016, 02:48:36 PM
Reply #239

FriendshipIsMagick

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It still would be good to hear from a teacher from TDS as well so let's see what happens.

This post will probably be the closest to what you are looking for, it's from a TDS assistant-teacher ('Daskalos' in TDS's terminology), responding to a previous thread on this same general topic back in October 2015: http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,22156.msg224066.html#msg224066

Take into account, of course, that a lot has happened since then.

Thanks for sharing this, Ekstatikos, I wasn't aware of the post.