Author Topic: The Divine Science (TDS) Ramose (Prophecy) and Veos- Open discussion  (Read 40073 times)

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April 11, 2016, 07:12:01 AM
Reply #180

Rodz

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I saved it because I think ahead man (so don't flatter yourself) because I actually knew you would do something like this. That is how we are, we like to think ahead. So again, if people want questions to us "attacking" him, I can gladly show documentation to show how he attacked us or other individuals literally. To those who decide to message him I welcome a PM to show a truthful viewpoint.

Also why a PM? I thought a Neoplatonic school would encourage discussion. Isn't this thread open discussion after all? I don't have anything to hide.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 07:24:50 AM by Rodz »

April 11, 2016, 07:21:58 AM
Reply #181

Ekstatikos

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Akenu are you just going to ignore my question on the astral light:(

For authority, I rather trust an acupuncturist that not only runs her own school in Gainesville, but has extensive years of experience and licensure as well. The one student in school is nothing more than a student so he really is not much of an authority on the matter. As for the other one who is actually licensed, again, people within TDS have said how much better Kathleen is compared to her. Plus, TDS students would be biased in the acupuncture because when they do pick up the energy that is going wild, they will never assume it is the techniques. Kathleen on other hand, was concerned and an objective third party with the people who do the energetic techniques in the school. When you are picking up the same issues of people just from the school who do specific energetic techniques, it stands out. Again, the acupuncturist within TDS will be biased because they will never think it is the techniques due to being bias and not objective.

I said more than one authority would be needed. I trust your faith in the credentials of the authority you're mentioning - all I'm saying is that whatever we may believe about this or that authority's credentials, if it's just one against the other it's not convincing - you need an actual third party here.

Also they do rely on faith a lot. They have many times said “faith in masters” or even “believing in the techniques”. Some of the students have left with no results, again, TDS has a “hit or miss” thinking when it comes to the techniques taught. Previous thread has mentioned too my brother not getting well due to “lack of faith.” So again, quite ironic they label themselves as a Neoplatonic school.

You haven't addressed my argument at all, you've just restated your own position, without taking my critique of it into account at all apparently. As I said, faith does necessarily play a role in any spiritual path - but you're setting up a false dichotomy between faith and reason, and misrepresenting the mindset and philosophy of TDS in general. I'm happy to agree to disagree on this though, since the above has given me no reason to rescind my position that TDS relies much less on faith than you are trying to make it out to, and that rational thinking is given heavy emphasis in the school.

As for the hit or miss comment, this seems an odd critique of a school. Most schools I'm aware of, under any definition of school, have failure rates. Unless the failure rates are inordinately high (which in TDS they are not), this is not taken to reflect badly on the instructors or the curriculum. I suppose you will want say I am "victim blaming" now, but please don't play that card as it doesn't apply here. It's a simple observation about the way education works.

As for the funds, you again, are not a local. They eat out a lot and that money alone adds up. They eat out at expensive restaurants quite often. Veos even bought an expensive tea set that is well around hundreds. They also have the recent videogame systems like an Xbox One. I am sure you all know the price of this. They also criticize others who play videogames which is quite hypocritical considering how much they game as well. The justification of the use for this is they will give stories of teachers for example, one spiritual teacher who ate meat and the student said “why can you eat meat and we can’t?” The teacher then eats molten metal and said something along the lines of “only you can do what I can do.” Something similar to that matter. They site many stories like this to justify their dodgy actions. It does not take being a businessman to manage money. It is just personal financing. Something anybody can learn. So you might want to be reasonable and ask for some transparency. That is my suggestion.

I am also employed as a teacher. I'm sure my students would be shocked to find out that I sometimes waste the money they pay me on good food and entertainment. This is a petty complaint - you're grasping at straws.

“As far as I can tell the whole cult accusation is just a shorthand way for the tdssanctuary folks to sum up their individuals grievances under a rubric that rationalizes their underhanded tactics to themselves under the guise of some kind of righteous, justified vengeance.”
Danny and Carly aren’t the only ones in the blog as some ex students have posted as well. It isn’t a short hand way and we will write and article describing in detail how they are a cult with many examples. In our examples you will read things they have said before people then can see how a cult operates. We just want the truth of how they are, simple as that.

You seem to have missed the point here. But as I said, I'm not paying this issue any more attention - it deserves none.

This is based on the authority that Ramose and Veos are the surgeons of magic capable of teaching. They tend to have a hit or miss attitude in regards their techniques. Reason many students have no results is due to them not teaching techniques to make you energetically sensitive. They think the Olympic meditations will do this and as stated again, this is a hit or miss technique and can even be dangerous to individuals with nerve damage or overly emotional. Also to do magic one truly only needs meditation for the focused mind and offerings for spirits to aid you. I can assure the students in TDS could actually do it right now due to at least meditation. It is not as hard as TDS makes it out to be.

I've already dealt with the hit and miss comment. What techniques should TDS students be learning in order to become energetically sensitive then?

"It's not as hard as TDS makes it out to be" - I've heard this before. I think TDS does make magic harder than it can be because they have very high standards of what a magician should be.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 11, 2016, 07:24:52 AM
Reply #182

FriendshipIsMagick

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I saved it because I think ahead man (so don't flatter yourself) because I actually knew you would do something like this. That is how we are, we like to think ahead. So again, if people want questions to us "attacking" him, I can gladly show documentation to show how he attacked us or other individuals literally. To those who decide to message him I welcome a PM to show a truthful viewpoint.

I'd prefer that you post your "documentation" here, as I gave you permission to. It doesn't speak very well of you that, even when I come on here exactly stating that I am not here to attack anyone's character, you still insist on that as my intention, and turn it into and opportunity for you to do so to me. If by referring to "literally" attacking someone you are talking about a certain legal issue I had to deal with last year, I would like you to know that all charges were dropped and that the occurrence was one of the worst things that ever happened to me and that, despite what a news blurb might have said, I was the victim in this situation. Not everything you read on the Internet is true (which is part of the reason I'm back here). One of the members of TDS Sanctuary has already sent that article around in an attempt to defame me, and, as that constitutes libel, seeing as I was not charged for the incident and their implication is that I am guilty, they ceased when I threatened legal action. I advise you to be conscientious.

That being said, once again, I am here to answer questions.

April 11, 2016, 07:41:47 AM
Reply #183

Akenu

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Akenu are you just going to ignore my question on the astral light:(

Frankly? Yes. Ekstatikos, I am not your teacher but let's just consider for a moment what you really want from me. The whole process of Magick could be summed up as the manipulation of Astral plane. You do stuff on the astral plane and physical plane than catches up, like a magnet, do you really think I will write about 500 words and this all is going to be explained within together with safety practices?

Dear Ekstatikos, read all my books, all my articles, all my experiments and all my projects and you might get a hint you have asked me about.

P.S. If you see gray between black and white, that gray is just the combination of black and white, so where does the black really ends and white begins?

April 11, 2016, 08:15:28 AM
Reply #184

Ekstatikos

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Akenu are you just going to ignore my question on the astral light:(

Frankly? Yes. Ekstatikos, I am not your teacher but let's just consider for a moment what you really want from me. The whole process of Magick could be summed up as the manipulation of Astral plane. You do stuff on the astral plane and physical plane than catches up, like a magnet, do you really think I will write about 500 words and this all is going to be explained within together with safety practices?

I didn't ask you to explain magic to me lol, I asked you to explain why you believe that the polarity of the astral light poses a practical problem. It's a specific question, and you're reluctance to provide a specific answer is either a sign of ignorance or laziness or both.

Dear Ekstatikos, read all my books, all my articles, all my experiments and all my projects and you might get a hint you have asked me about.

roflcopter

P.S. If you see gray between black and white, that gray is just the combination of black and white, so where does the black really ends and white begins?

I've no intention of arguing about cosmology with you
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 11, 2016, 08:18:46 AM
Reply #185

Akenu

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Akenu are you just going to ignore my question on the astral light:(

Frankly? Yes. Ekstatikos, I am not your teacher but let's just consider for a moment what you really want from me. The whole process of Magick could be summed up as the manipulation of Astral plane. You do stuff on the astral plane and physical plane than catches up, like a magnet, do you really think I will write about 500 words and this all is going to be explained within together with safety practices?

I didn't ask you to explain magic to me lol, I asked you to explain why you believe that the polarity of the astral light poses a practical problem. It's a specific question, and you're reluctance to provide a specific answer is either a sign of ignorance or laziness or both.

Dear Ekstatikos, read all my books, all my articles, all my experiments and all my projects and you might get a hint you have asked me about.

roflcopter

P.S. If you see gray between black and white, that gray is just the combination of black and white, so where does the black really ends and white begins?

I've no intention of arguing about cosmology with you


Wow, so you want me to speak about something that actually goes through Magick as the whole and if I refuse, it's a sign of laziness/ignorance/both, but you have no "intention of arguing about cosmology with me". You do understand that this "cosmology" actually does relate to your question, right?

April 11, 2016, 08:54:03 AM
Reply #186

Ekstatikos

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Wow, so you want me to speak about something that actually goes through Magick as the whole and if I refuse, it's a sign of laziness/ignorance/both, but you have no "intention of arguing about cosmology with me". You do understand that this "cosmology" actually does relate to your question, right?

You need to explain your perspective on cosmological metaphysics to me in order to answer my straightforward question? Also, the issue of whether there is a practical problem with the polarity of the astral light is 'something that goes through Magick as the [sic] whole'? How? Don't answer that. If you don't want to answer the question that's fine, but then nobody reading this really has any reason to believe your claim that being unaware of some polar concern when working with the astral light is a necessary precaution to doing, for example, meditations that involve its use.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 11, 2016, 08:56:28 AM
Reply #187

Akenu

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Wow, so you want me to speak about something that actually goes through Magick as the whole and if I refuse, it's a sign of laziness/ignorance/both, but you have no "intention of arguing about cosmology with me". You do understand that this "cosmology" actually does relate to your question, right?

You need to explain your perspective on cosmological metaphysics to me in order to answer my straightforward question? Also, the issue of whether there is a practical problem with the polarity of the astral light is 'something that goes through Magick as the [sic] whole'? How? Don't answer that. If you don't want to answer the question that's fine, but then nobody reading this really has any reason to believe your claim that being unaware of some polar concern when working with the astral light is a necessary precaution to doing, for example, meditations that involve its use.

Why? Ekstatikos, I told you few posts back. Do you always read just the first sentence and reply? Astral part always has some physical counter-part, manipulation with astral equals to manipulation with physical reality. So using Astral plane as the playground for stupid experiments based on ideas of twins who never worked is a VERY bad idea.

April 11, 2016, 09:17:04 AM
Reply #188

Ekstatikos

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Wow, so you want me to speak about something that actually goes through Magick as the whole and if I refuse, it's a sign of laziness/ignorance/both, but you have no "intention of arguing about cosmology with me". You do understand that this "cosmology" actually does relate to your question, right?

You need to explain your perspective on cosmological metaphysics to me in order to answer my straightforward question? Also, the issue of whether there is a practical problem with the polarity of the astral light is 'something that goes through Magick as the [sic] whole'? How? Don't answer that. If you don't want to answer the question that's fine, but then nobody reading this really has any reason to believe your claim that being unaware of some polar concern when working with the astral light is a necessary precaution to doing, for example, meditations that involve its use.

Why? Ekstatikos, I told you few posts back. Do you always read just the first sentence and reply? Astral part always has some physical counter-part, manipulation with astral equals to manipulation with physical reality. So using Astral plane as the playground for stupid experiments based on ideas of twins who never worked is a VERY bad idea.

You're completely side-stepping the issue - and I affirmed to you that I understand that the astral can affect the physical, so maybe you should turn that critique of not reading on yourself friend.

IF the astral light CAN have a negative effect on a person THEN 'messing' around with it in the wrong way would be a bad idea. You haven't given the specifics of how you believe the polarity of the astral light implies that it can have some specific malefic effect - or at least, you haven't explained how to avoid that - you've simply said that a person would need to work with both polarities since working with only one would be bad (I imagine you mean it would create imbalance, followed by unwanted effects caused by said imbalance). As a counter to this, which you haven't been able to disprove, both me and IHHBuddy have claimed that since the astral light is electromagnetic (amongst other reasons that I could go into if you would like me to), it has a naturally balancing effect (and you would necessarily always be working with both polarities), which is beneficial, whether on the astral or physical level. I hypothesized that since that is the natural effect of the astral light, only some form of extreme operation would be able to make it do something unbalanced, malefic and against its own nature, and that the chances of this happening with a beginner or even novice practitioner were virtually nil. You didn't counter this point either. Again, this leaves no-one with any reason to believe your claim. If it's too much trouble for you to explain, that's fine, but don't expect people to take the claim seriously then if it can't even stand up to this kind of cursory scrutiny.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 11, 2016, 09:19:26 AM
Reply #189

Akenu

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Wow, so you want me to speak about something that actually goes through Magick as the whole and if I refuse, it's a sign of laziness/ignorance/both, but you have no "intention of arguing about cosmology with me". You do understand that this "cosmology" actually does relate to your question, right?

You need to explain your perspective on cosmological metaphysics to me in order to answer my straightforward question? Also, the issue of whether there is a practical problem with the polarity of the astral light is 'something that goes through Magick as the [sic] whole'? How? Don't answer that. If you don't want to answer the question that's fine, but then nobody reading this really has any reason to believe your claim that being unaware of some polar concern when working with the astral light is a necessary precaution to doing, for example, meditations that involve its use.

Why? Ekstatikos, I told you few posts back. Do you always read just the first sentence and reply? Astral part always has some physical counter-part, manipulation with astral equals to manipulation with physical reality. So using Astral plane as the playground for stupid experiments based on ideas of twins who never worked is a VERY bad idea.

You're completely side-stepping the issue - and I affirmed to you that I understand that the astral can affect the physical, so maybe you should turn that critique of not reading on yourself friend.

IF the astral light CAN have a negative effect on a person THEN 'messing' around with it in the wrong way would be a bad idea. You haven't given the specifics of how you believe the polarity of the astral light implies that it can have some specific malefic effect - or at least, you haven't explained how to avoid that - you've simply said that a person would need to work with both polarities since working with only one would be bad (I imagine you mean it would create imbalance, followed by unwanted effects caused by said imbalance). As a counter to this, which you haven't been able to disprove, both me and IHHBuddy have claimed that since the astral light is electromagnetic (amongst other reasons that I could go into if you would like me to), it has a naturally balancing effect (and you would necessarily always be working with both polarities), which is beneficial, whether on the astral or physical level. I hypothesized that since that is the natural effect of the astral light, only some form of extreme operation would be able to make it do something unbalanced, malefic and against its own nature, and that the chances of this happening with a beginner or even novice practitioner were virtually nil. You didn't counter this point either. Again, this leaves no-one with any reason to believe your claim. If it's too much trouble for you to explain, that's fine, but don't expect people to take the claim seriously then if it can't even stand up to this kind of cursory scrutiny.

So, based on you electromagnetic fluid is self-balancing and since the vital force as electromagnetic, then it is self-balancing. Can you tell me once again why health issues exist?

April 11, 2016, 09:22:14 AM
Reply #190

IIHbuddy89

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Dear Ekstatikos, read all my books, all my articles, all my experiments and all my projects and you might get a hint you have asked me about.

Egoism at its finest  :biggrin:

Quote
Ouch, IIHbuddy89, when something has the negative aspect, it doesn't mean it is harmful :-D. Positive and negative in this sense are used just like you would use them in electricity, negative pole doesn't mean evil pole. If you overbalance yourself by taking in only the positive, you will get to the same amount of trouble as if you overbalanced yourself only with the negative, but a practicing magician would know as you say ;-).

Quote
Why? Ekstatikos, I told you few posts back. Do you always read just the first sentence and reply? Astral part always has some physical counter-part, manipulation with astral equals to manipulation with physical reality. So using Astral plane as the playground for stupid experiments based on ideas of twins who never worked is a VERY bad idea.


I was just guessing what you were thinking the problem might be with polarity.

You now proved you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, or what are the Olympus meditations are all about.

It's not about manipulation of the astral forces, it's about purification of the psychic nerves.

A few minutes ago you were talking about that polarity of the Astral Light is harmful and now you point to completely different thing (to the fact that by changing the astral you change the physical reality too)

Ouch Akenu.



Quote
The whole curriculum is made to be balanced and building all necessary requirements needed for the further work

I really not want to ridicule or anything, but you really want me to analyze your MC?

I mean just look at this one:


Quote
Banishing

Now we should learn a thing or two to do when things go ugly. Banishing is a form of cleansing the space, for now I will show you just few basic ways.

Banishing by laughter: There isn't anything simpler, just laugh your ass off, laugh as hard as you can, at first it will be forced, then it will turn into crazy madman laugh, laugh as you can breath, let it overcome you.

...

Banishing by denial: This is also a very potent way of banishing, reject your astral problems their existence, ground yourself to our plane.

"There is no problem , astral entities belong to a different plane, I am right here and right now on this plane, there is a floor under my legs, oxygen in my lungs, and an empty space all around me, there is nothing to be worried about. There is just me and this room"

...


This is one of the most ridiculous thing I ever read honestly. Do you really think ignoring everything and laughing will work if an astral entity really want to harm you? *facepalm*

I cannot imagine how can anyone take you seriously.

And this is just one thing from the MANY one can find in your MC.


P.S: Are you racing with Aunt Clair for the lowest karma point anyway? :D One more negative point and you will take the lead haha

April 11, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
Reply #191

Akenu

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Dear Ekstatikos, read all my books, all my articles, all my experiments and all my projects and you might get a hint you have asked me about.

Egoism at its finest  :biggrin:

Projection, much?

Quote
Quote
Ouch, IIHbuddy89, when something has the negative aspect, it doesn't mean it is harmful :-D. Positive and negative in this sense are used just like you would use them in electricity, negative pole doesn't mean evil pole. If you overbalance yourself by taking in only the positive, you will get to the same amount of trouble as if you overbalanced yourself only with the negative, but a practicing magician would know as you say ;-).

Quote
Why? Ekstatikos, I told you few posts back. Do you always read just the first sentence and reply? Astral part always has some physical counter-part, manipulation with astral equals to manipulation with physical reality. So using Astral plane as the playground for stupid experiments based on ideas of twins who never worked is a VERY bad idea.


I was just guessing what you were thinking the problem might be with polarity.

You now proved you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, or what are the Olympus meditations are all about.

It's not about manipulation of the astral forces, it's about purification of the psychic nerves.

So it's not about working with Astral Light anymore? It's true I have my information regarding those meditations from second hand sources, but one of those sources were you, so how is it, IIHbuddy?

Quote
A few minutes ago you were talking about that polarity of the Astral Light is harmful and now you point to completely different thing (to the fact that by changing the astral you change the physical reality too)

Ouch Akenu.

I understand you, as TDS member and before as IIH self-proclaimed master didn't know that, but this is actually a common knowledge in Magick


Quote
Quote
The whole curriculum is made to be balanced and building all necessary requirements needed for the further work

I really not want to ridicule or anything, but you really want me to analyze your MC?

I mean just look at this one:


Quote
Banishing

Now we should learn a thing or two to do when things go ugly. Banishing is a form of cleansing the space, for now I will show you just few basic ways.

Banishing by laughter: There isn't anything simpler, just laugh your ass off, laugh as hard as you can, at first it will be forced, then it will turn into crazy madman laugh, laugh as you can breath, let it overcome you.

...

Banishing by denial: This is also a very potent way of banishing, reject your astral problems their existence, ground yourself to our plane.

"There is no problem , astral entities belong to a different plane, I am right here and right now on this plane, there is a floor under my legs, oxygen in my lungs, and an empty space all around me, there is nothing to be worried about. There is just me and this room"

...


This is one of the most ridiculous thing I ever read honestly. Do you really think ignoring everything and laughing will work if an astral entity really want to harm you? *facepalm*

I cannot imagine how can anyone take you seriously.

And this is just one thing from the MANY one can find in your MC.

Hm, you either never tried any of these or you actually do not have any experience with entities at all. The second one (banishing by denial) is actually the one that saved my butt back when I was beginning in the occult (Enochian Magick to be more specific), and now, IIHbuddy, I am not talking about fuzzy feelings, I am talking about real stuff, the notepad I used to write the Enochian calls in and read there from it got heavy and hot as hell so it was hard to even hold it in my hands and I was shivering from cold for a full week (despite the fact it was summer).

Quote
P.S: Are you racing with Aunt Clair for the lowest karma point anyway? :D One more negative point and you will take the lead haha


No, I am just arguing with idiots from TDS. I guess I will have to wait few days for taking the lead over Aunt Claire as both you and Ekstatikos already did your regular smite ;-)

April 11, 2016, 09:34:22 AM
Reply #192

Rodz

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A lot of the negative karma points happened from the other TDS thread from Pro TDS. I remember Shinichi's went down by 20 points alone. Same happened with Akenu. Friendship Danny and Carly never spread libel as libel is a lie. You are known for your anger. Lots of proof of that. Ramose and Veos have spread a lot of libel in regards to them which was a reason quite a few people left.

April 11, 2016, 09:41:11 AM
Reply #193

Ekstatikos

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So, based on you electromagnetic fluid is self-balancing and since the vital force as electromagnetic, then it is self-balancing. Can you tell me once again why health issues exist?

I said the astral light has a balancing effect - I didn't say anything about whether the electromagnetic fluid or the vital force are self-balancing or anything of the sort. We are talking about the astral light specifically - if you want to mention the electromagnetic fluid and the vital force as well then make their relevance to the discussion clear instead of posing rhetorical questions and wasting time. If you're trying to refer to the idea that health issues are caused by imbalance then I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

IIHBuddy to be fair, if the Olympic meditations employ the astral light then they do technically involve the manipulation of astral forces, towards the goal of psychic purification sure, but it's still a manipulation of an astral force. You're right to say that Akenu still hasn't explained the polarity issue though, unless he is doing so incredibly long-windedly by first starting out with explaining the basic principle that the astral can affect the physical. I'm waiting in suspense for the next piece of the puzzle.
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To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

April 11, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
Reply #194

Akenu

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    • Akenu's Initiation
So, based on you electromagnetic fluid is self-balancing and since the vital force as electromagnetic, then it is self-balancing. Can you tell me once again why health issues exist?

I said the astral light has a balancing effect - I didn't say anything about whether the electromagnetic fluid or the vital force are self-balancing or anything of the sort. We are talking about the astral light specifically - if you want to mention the electromagnetic fluid and the vital force as well then make their relevance to the discussion clear instead of posing rhetorical questions and wasting time. If you're trying to refer to the idea that health issues are caused by imbalance then I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

IIHBuddy to be fair, if the Olympic meditations employ the astral light then they do technically involve the manipulation of astral forces, towards the goal of psychic purification sure, but it's still a manipulation of an astral force. You're right to say that Akenu still hasn't explained the polarity issue though, unless he is doing so incredibly long-windedly by first starting out with explaining the basic principle that the astral can affect the physical. I'm waiting in suspense for the next piece of the puzzle.

... both me and IHHBuddy have claimed that since the astral light is electromagnetic (amongst other reasons that I could go into if you would like me to), it has a naturally balancing effect (and you would necessarily always be working with both polarities), which is beneficial, whether on the astral or physical level....

Don't you see the relation?