Poll

Do you approve of the new rule as proposed?

I approve.
14 (63.6%)
I do not approve.
8 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: October 21, 2015, 02:22:16 PM

Author Topic: Vote: New Rule: Advertisement of External Groups  (Read 1482 times)

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October 14, 2015, 02:22:16 PM
Read 1482 times

Trowa

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The proposed rule:

"No recruitment or advertisement of external groups, orders, or schools is allowed without the permission of a member of the Veritas Council.  Discussions of experiences and validity are allowed."

As we cannot verify the validity of every external group, I feel as a member of the staff that we should keep our members' best interest at heart.  We cannot guarantee that an external group will not harm you physically, financially, mentally, emotionally, or spiritually.  To allow any such group to advertise on this website is negligent.  Therefore, I propose the above rule.  I do not want to prevent discourse from other communities, I merely wish to protect our members and guests.

The vote will run for seven days, and due to the potentially sensitive nature of the poll, the general results will only be shown after the poll has expired.  Discussion of this rule should take place below, and you are allowed to change your vote.  As per our constitution, a vote on the same topic will take place among the staff elsewhere.

Edit:  Edited the title to ensure it was clear that this is a vote.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 02:27:13 PM by Trowa »

October 15, 2015, 10:29:19 AM
Reply #1

Mobius

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I am opposed to this measure, personally.

I do not believe it should be the role of the Council to explicitly be the judges of 'good' thought and organizations. Our aim should rather to be to provide the information and resources to outfit readers with the capability to make such evaluations themselves.
Deus Ex Vir

October 15, 2015, 10:56:47 AM
Reply #2

Shinichi

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I will approve of this is it is revised slightly.

There should be a clear distinction between advertisement and recruitment, versus general discussion and review. If you outright prohibit blatant advertisement and recruitment (no need for the council to vette), while allowing discussion of orders and schools so that people can share experiences in order to offer commentary, this could be a fair and beneficial rule to impose.



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"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

October 15, 2015, 05:18:38 PM
Reply #3

Steve

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I understand your concern, Trowa, but we are not parents for the members of this forum. If someone posts stuff that is blatantly harmful, then that already trespasses the rules, and it can be shut down.

But we've had plenty of advertisers in the past; some who are humble, some who are arrogant. The community tends to speak up and reply or ask questions of these people as we care to, and so far there has been no large incidents.

And at the end of the day, each person is free to make their own decisions in life, including making stupid ones. They are free to ask opinions and questions and do further research of their own as well, so it is not our responsibility to coddle and protect members who are, for the most part these days, not children :)

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

October 16, 2015, 05:11:00 AM
Reply #4

Akenu

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@Steve: We are not parents for members of this forum, true enough, but we should be responsible for the content of this forum and I believe a council should have a little bit more control who is or isn't allowed to advertise here.

October 16, 2015, 07:51:30 AM
Reply #5

Shankara

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I agree with the rule with the modifications that Shinichi proposed.

October 16, 2015, 07:55:27 AM
Reply #6

Akenu

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I will approve of this is it is revised slightly.

There should be a clear distinction between advertisement and recruitment, versus general discussion and review. If you outright prohibit blatant advertisement and recruitment (no need for the council to vette), while allowing discussion of orders and schools so that people can share experiences in order to offer commentary, this could be a fair and beneficial rule to impose.



~:Shin:~
I agree with the rule with the modifications that Shinichi proposed.

Isn't that this?

Discussions of experiences and validity are allowed.

October 16, 2015, 11:45:06 AM
Reply #7

Shinichi

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That could count for what I asked for, but I don't know.

It would help if Trowa clarified. My vote is suspended in mid air. :P



~:Shin:~
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"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

October 16, 2015, 03:19:43 PM
Reply #8

Trowa

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I am confused, what needs clarification?  The rule would be enforced by moderators as they see fit and at their own discretion, just like every other rule we have. 

The rule as currently proposed in this vote will include the Veritas Council provision, and to revise it during this voting period is unfair to everyone who has already voted and doesn't know the edit was made.  To end the vote early is unfair for those who want to vote for the rule as-is.

You are voting for the rule as it is written today.  However, that does not mean that the rule can't be revised in a follow-up vote, if it passes.  Based on some feedback I've received, regardless of the results of this vote I will likely submit a revision for another vote.  (That proposed revision some will agree with, and some will disagree with.)

October 16, 2015, 03:28:13 PM
Reply #9

Shinichi

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The confusion seems to have been mostly mine. I apologize.

I would simply like to restate that I don't think it's necessary for the council to review and vette groups for advertisement. It is very difficult to see through the PR that most groups have on display, most especially the groups that this rule is meant to protect people from, and I'm not sure the council members have the time and energy to go through the necessarily thorough review processes involved. Nor do I think you guys will want to hold the responsibility of such filtering, and the backlash of when someone inevitably slips through the filter. It would be (on the council, if nothing else) simplest if blatant first party advertisement was blocked entirely, while allowing third party discussion.

If you disagree, well. That's okay. But vetting spiritual groups is a serious responsibility.



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

October 16, 2015, 03:48:27 PM
Reply #10

Trowa

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It's why we have discussion threads.  :)

October 17, 2015, 06:36:26 PM
Reply #11

Steve

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@Steve: We are not parents for members of this forum, true enough, but we should be responsible for the content of this forum and I believe a council should have a little bit more control who is or isn't allowed to advertise here.
The Council does have control of content, as do the moderators.

So long as an advertiser is not running amok and messing up the forums by posting their message all over the various boards, and worse in completely unrelated topics, then it should be no problem for our members to be aware that there are places other than Veritas in the world. Especially if you want to avoid conspiratorial ideologies about Veritas trying to pretend like it is the only OEC on the internet by refusing to "let" members know that other such places exist ;)

EDIT: Also, Veritas tries to be an open community. We enjoy being able to discuss openly and honestly with one another, even if that leads to disagreements and arguments at times. Disallowing advertisements would seem rather the opposite of openness and transparency, and letting people make informed and mature opinions on their own, rather than being subtly brainwashed into believing one thing or another about this or that group.

~Steve
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 06:40:18 PM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

October 22, 2015, 05:39:17 PM
Reply #12

Trowa

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Results of this vote, as well as a proposed revision, can be found here:  http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,23547.0.html