Author Topic: Quantum observation theory?  (Read 17900 times)

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October 25, 2014, 08:51:28 AM
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Xenophon

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WARNING You might lose faith if you read this.
So I had this idea, and I dont know whether I like it or not because of what it means as it both explains psioncs in very belivable way but it also makes everyone look like nothing but observers of quantum universes that dont actually do anything except change universes. I apologize if you dont understand me as this is diffucult to explain.

It basicly means that whenever a psionic effect is done by the soul the only thing that happens is that soul moves from one quantum universe in which nothing happened to another in which it happened.This does not only explain psioncs but also every action someone takes as simply moving to a quantum universe in which that action was taken.

I am not sure if this explains all things but it sure makes psionics look very easy since someone can just change to any quantum universe just as easily and yet gives no credit to anyone since noone actually does anything but move to a universe in which something happened which means that there is no point to anything since whatever we want to do already happened and we would just move to the universe it happened in, and if something already happened someone can just move to a universe it didnt happen in wchich means that even if do something to for example stop something bad from happening we would just move to a universe in which it didnt happen but it would still happen in another universe and only the ones that switched the universe would actually not have that happeneing (which would include everyone since in that quantum universe ( the one in which nothing bad happened) you chose to switch universe to the one in which everyone switched universe so basicly they exist both in the universe in which nothing bad happened and the one in which it happened and you simply cant stop  it from happening aside from destroying the whole branch of universes in which bad thing happened in the root of the universe branch and whatever happened later as the branch itself. I dont know if this made any sense so here is a picture of this:



You would basicly have to destroy the red branch completely to actually not let the bad thing happen and I dont know if its possible to destroy a quantum universe.
This bad thing can be replaced with any psionic skill too.

I guess what Yoda said "Do or do not" only works in the quantum universe you do it in as in the other one you dont.

October 25, 2014, 09:17:52 AM
Reply #1

Merlin

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I don't think this takes into account that things have to be caused, they don't just happen. So if I jumped into a universe where my goal had been accomplished, I would have had to actually accomplish the goal in the first place.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

October 25, 2014, 10:14:38 AM
Reply #2

Xenophon

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If you wanted to acomplish a goal you would do whatever is needed to acomplish it, but there is already a universe in which you acomplished it and the universe in which you didnt is what I am saying. And there is no way to choose to acomplish your goal without also not choosing to acomplish your goal in another universe. So if you were to do something  and you do it, there is a universe in which you chose not to do it. So it both happens and doesnt happen, and if you do it it only happens to universe you are in as in one you chose not to do it and it didnt happen and that other universe is the same as the one you did it in except you didnt do it in that one. And you both exist in universe you did it in and the one you didnt do it in, and so does everyone else, but the only universe you know is the one you did it in (if you did it).

So for example if you had to choose whether or not to move an object there will be both a universe in which object wasnt moved and the one that is exaclty the same except the object was moved. So by moving an object you switched to a universe in which you moved it, but the universe in which you didnt move it still exists and continues like the one you moved it in. This might be better explained by making a choice like whether to go left or right, and you choose to go right, while there is also a universe in which you chose to go left and it does happen in that universe so by going right you switched to a universe in which you went right.

Now I dont know if it is right but I think it might be that using your soul to move something is actually switching to a universe in which that object isnt at the same position instead of using your hand to move the object. So maybe you could even use your soul to move yourself to a universe in which something a lot bigger happened or happened in different time or in which you did something or didnt do something.

This is not actually about causing things but about making choices to cause things. And using your soul to do something is by this theory switching a universe from wherever your soul is instead of having to do something physicly to switch a universe (I know you have to do something with your soul to it, but you are not using your soul physicly and it is causing physical effect). So (by this theory) the soul seems like a "shortcut" to doing things, and instead of having to move something with your hand you move it by switching to a universe in which it isnt at the same position. But there is still a universe in which it is at the same position (the one you switched from) and that other universe continues to exist and in it you also continue to exist, but you also continue to exist in the universe in which you chose to move it and it is that universe that is real to you.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:18:58 AM by Xenophon »

October 25, 2014, 11:23:47 AM
Reply #3

Merlin

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If you wanted to acomplish a goal you would do whatever is needed to acomplish it, but there is already a universe in which you acomplished it and the universe in which you didnt is what I am saying. And there is no way to choose to acomplish your goal without also not choosing to acomplish your goal in another universe. So if you were to do something  and you do it, there is a universe in which you chose not to do it. So it both happens and doesnt happen, and if you do it it only happens to universe you are in as in one you chose not to do it and it didnt happen and that other universe is the same as the one you did it in except you didnt do it in that one. And you both exist in universe you did it in and the one you didnt do it in, and so does everyone else, but the only universe you know is the one you did it in (if you did it).

So for example if you had to choose whether or not to move an object there will be both a universe in which object wasnt moved and the one that is exaclty the same except the object was moved. So by moving an object you switched to a universe in which you moved it, but the universe in which you didnt move it still exists and continues like the one you moved it in. This might be better explained by making a choice like whether to go left or right, and you choose to go right, while there is also a universe in which you chose to go left and it does happen in that universe so by going right you switched to a universe in which you went right.

Now I dont know if it is right but I think it might be that using your soul to move something is actually switching to a universe in which that object isnt at the same position instead of using your hand to move the object. So maybe you could even use your soul to move yourself to a universe in which something a lot bigger happened or happened in different time or in which you did something or didnt do something.

This is not actually about causing things but about making choices to cause things. And using your soul to do something is by this theory switching a universe from wherever your soul is instead of having to do something physicly to switch a universe (I know you have to do something with your soul to it, but you are not using your soul physicly and it is causing physical effect). So (by this theory) the soul seems like a "shortcut" to doing things, and instead of having to move something with your hand you move it by switching to a universe in which it isnt at the same position. But there is still a universe in which it is at the same position (the one you switched from) and that other universe continues to exist and in it you also continue to exist, but you also continue to exist in the universe in which you chose to move it and it is that universe that is real to you.

That still doesn't explain how the object was moved, which is the focus of psi in this context. I think what you're talking about is referred to as "quantum leaping," and you still have to do the task. The only important implication I can see is if this can be done irrespective of time, in which case it would be akin to traveling back in time to make things turn out the way you want, though I can tell you I've never consciously done that.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

October 25, 2014, 08:51:08 PM
Reply #4

kobok

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This is not actually about causing things but about making choices to cause things. And using your soul to do something is by this theory switching a universe from wherever your soul is instead of having to do something physicly to switch a universe (I know you have to do something with your soul to it, but you are not using your soul physicly and it is causing physical effect). So (by this theory) the soul seems like a "shortcut" to doing things, and instead of having to move something with your hand you move it by switching to a universe in which it isnt at the same position. But there is still a universe in which it is at the same position (the one you switched from) and that other universe continues to exist and in it you also continue to exist, but you also continue to exist in the universe in which you chose to move it and it is that universe that is real to you.

It is certainly an interesting notion, and I have applauded you for it.  But here's why your theory is incorrect:

Say you slide an object across a table with psi, but you do so with a hundred witnesses.  And it is placed on video and broadcast across the world to a million viewers.  By your proposal, you are simply switching to a universe in which it was already in a different position.  But if that were true, all these observers would not experience it moving, because you would have switched into a universe in which they already thought it was in the new position.  Thus they would think you had done nothing.

Resolving this would require modifying your theory in one of numerous ways which greatly changes the significance and nature of how a change is made with psi.
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October 26, 2014, 10:26:01 AM
Reply #5

Tricky

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This is not actually about causing things but about making choices to cause things. And using your soul to do something is by this theory switching a universe from wherever your soul is instead of having to do something physicly to switch a universe (I know you have to do something with your soul to it, but you are not using your soul physicly and it is causing physical effect). So (by this theory) the soul seems like a "shortcut" to doing things, and instead of having to move something with your hand you move it by switching to a universe in which it isnt at the same position. But there is still a universe in which it is at the same position (the one you switched from) and that other universe continues to exist and in it you also continue to exist, but you also continue to exist in the universe in which you chose to move it and it is that universe that is real to you.

It is certainly an interesting notion, and I have applauded you for it.  But here's why your theory is incorrect:

Say you slide an object across a table with psi, but you do so with a hundred witnesses.  And it is placed on video and broadcast across the world to a million viewers.  By your proposal, you are simply switching to a universe in which it was already in a different position.  But if that were true, all these observers would not experience it moving, because you would have switched into a universe in which they already thought it was in the new position.  Thus they would think you had done nothing.

Resolving this would require modifying your theory in one of numerous ways which greatly changes the significance and nature of how a change is made with psi.


Why wouldnt you be able to switch to a universe where everyone sees that happening, though? In the universe you left, people werent seeing it move.

October 26, 2014, 01:05:05 PM
Reply #6

Merlin

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This is not actually about causing things but about making choices to cause things. And using your soul to do something is by this theory switching a universe from wherever your soul is instead of having to do something physicly to switch a universe (I know you have to do something with your soul to it, but you are not using your soul physicly and it is causing physical effect). So (by this theory) the soul seems like a "shortcut" to doing things, and instead of having to move something with your hand you move it by switching to a universe in which it isnt at the same position. But there is still a universe in which it is at the same position (the one you switched from) and that other universe continues to exist and in it you also continue to exist, but you also continue to exist in the universe in which you chose to move it and it is that universe that is real to you.

It is certainly an interesting notion, and I have applauded you for it.  But here's why your theory is incorrect:

Say you slide an object across a table with psi, but you do so with a hundred witnesses.  And it is placed on video and broadcast across the world to a million viewers.  By your proposal, you are simply switching to a universe in which it was already in a different position.  But if that were true, all these observers would not experience it moving, because you would have switched into a universe in which they already thought it was in the new position.  Thus they would think you had done nothing.

Resolving this would require modifying your theory in one of numerous ways which greatly changes the significance and nature of how a change is made with psi.


Why wouldnt you be able to switch to a universe where everyone sees that happening, though? In the universe you left, people werent seeing it move.

Because it would still have to have happened, and the significance of psi is in how that happened.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

October 26, 2014, 01:18:26 PM
Reply #7

kobok

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Why wouldnt you be able to switch to a universe where everyone sees that happening, though? In the universe you left, people werent seeing it move.

Because the original distribution of universes in the presented theory doesn't include psi events having happened.  It includes branched choices and probabilities.  So you might find a universe in which an object ended up at a different location.  But a universe where everybody just watched psi happen would only have a non-zero probability in a universe in which psi exists WITHIN that universe, rather than by transiting between them.
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October 26, 2014, 07:12:20 PM
Reply #8

ImmortalTimothy

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Because it would still have to have happened, and the significance of psi is in how that happened.
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Because the original distribution of universes in the presented theory doesn't include psi events having happened.  It includes branched choices and probabilities.  So you might find a universe in which an object ended up at a different location.  But a universe where everybody just watched psi happen would only have a non-zero probability in a universe in which psi exists WITHIN that universe, rather than by transiting between them.

Not necessarily, in the new quantum reality that you shifted to *something* caused the object to move, it just so happened that in this universe that you shifted to the movement that happened was the movement you wanted to happen.

This *Something* could be really anything, a "freak" occurrence that would have happened based on natural explained effects unseen. The only difference between you and a random observer is that you have perspective on your quantum pathway. Therefore all of these "psi" effects could be explained by astronomically low chance occurrences (Probably caused by quantum and particle interactions) that just so happen to line up to your expectations because you are moving into the reality that it did happen.

You and the people around you would observe the object moving without knowing how. However, only that particular quantum version of the random observers saw it and are in your quantum reality at the moment. Infinite people saw you fail at your attempt, infinite people saw you succeed; but the only perspective that counts to you is your own perspective that the events you wanted to happen did happen.

Also just to add a bit more; for all the times that you felt psi energy, that is how you learnt to use psi and your quantum soul can translate your feelings of psi as what quantum reality event should occur.

I honestly do not know if this is how everything works. But it is a very interesting theory. I may or may not believe in this particular theory though.
I am my own God

October 26, 2014, 08:10:26 PM
Reply #9

kobok

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Infinite people saw you fail at your attempt, infinite people saw you succeed; but the only perspective that counts to you is your own perspective that the events you wanted to happen did happen.

But that's definitely not the case with psi.  Psi is tested in parapsychology studies, and these studies don't JUST work out from the perspective of the participant.  We all exist in the universe where psi studies consistently get very significantly better odds than chance, from the perspective of everyone.  If psi were just due to the person doing psi shifting themselves into the extremely improbable universe in which astronomical freak events occur, then statistical studies of psi would not show it working.  The average statistical study of psi would line up with chance levels, because there is no reason to expect we have all consistently shifted into these astronomically improbable universe in which the psi studies keep working.

In essence, the proposed theory indicates that for each of us, ourselves would be the only person we had any reasonable chance of ever observing do psi.  And obviously this is not the case.
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October 26, 2014, 08:21:02 PM
Reply #10

ImmortalTimothy

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In essence, the proposed theory indicates that for each of us, ourselves would be the only person we had any reasonable chance of ever observing do psi.  And obviously this is not the case.

I understand that, however there could be some sort of convergent shifting, like attracts like. Or... idk; I simply think that this theory has a lot of interesting thoughts and everyone seems against it. Therefore I attempted to give it a bit more validity and argued for it. But it seems I have exhausted my points and have no counter point to propose at this moment.

I honestly do not practice psi (I practice magick with an emphasis on electricity and electromagnetism manipulation), I do not believe in this particular theory on psi but I have not concerned my self with psi in a couple of years.
I am my own God

November 12, 2014, 05:25:51 PM
Reply #11

Major Hermann

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visualizing, feeling, being Your desires you want to happen. 
I dont subscribe to theories of end of time because time is circler past present future all taking place same time.

So something i do to change the future it is also requires that it happened in the past as you were a little kid-growing up....as i visualize and feel my past change then back to the future present being now,...

November 16, 2014, 03:33:22 PM
Reply #12

Xenophon

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Infinite people saw you fail at your attempt, infinite people saw you succeed; but the only perspective that counts to you is your own perspective that the events you wanted to happen did happen.

But that's definitely not the case with psi.  Psi is tested in parapsychology studies, and these studies don't JUST work out from the perspective of the participant.  We all exist in the universe where psi studies consistently get very significantly better odds than chance, from the perspective of everyone.  If psi were just due to the person doing psi shifting themselves into the extremely improbable universe in which astronomical freak events occur, then statistical studies of psi would not show it working.  The average statistical study of psi would line up with chance levels, because there is no reason to expect we have all consistently shifted into these astronomically improbable universe in which the psi studies keep working.

In essence, the proposed theory indicates that for each of us, ourselves would be the only person we had any reasonable chance of ever observing do psi.  And obviously this is not the case.

All those studies of psi only happened in universe branch you are in, there is a branch of universes in which it didnt happened and another branch of  universes in which it happened differently, there is a branch in which psi is not working and in some it is improbable, and in some it is easier than in one you are in. Psi happenes in perspective of everyone IN the universe that the one that did psi did it in (or actually the one that did it swithced to   ). And it doesnt happen in every universe, so in some of them the one that did psi actually didnt do it.  This is just the universe in which a lot of psi happened. There are universes in which noone even tried using psi yet and some with psi being a normal thing to do to everyone.

November 17, 2014, 08:02:53 AM
Reply #13

kobok

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All those studies of psi only happened in universe branch you are in, there is a branch of universes in which it didnt happened and another branch of  universes in which it happened differently, there is a branch in which psi is not working and in some it is improbable, and in some it is easier than in one you are in. Psi happenes in perspective of everyone IN the universe that the one that did psi did it in (or actually the one that did it swithced to   ). And it doesnt happen in every universe, so in some of them the one that did psi actually didnt do it.  This is just the universe in which a lot of psi happened. There are universes in which noone even tried using psi yet and some with psi being a normal thing to do to everyone.

You seem to be missing the key point.  Imagine there were 100 studies of psi, and by sheer dumb luck we just happen to be riding in the 1 out of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 universes in which those studies had positive results just by chance.  (Because those are really the types of scale that the odds are like.)  Okay.  That will happen to 1 out of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 universes in that theory, so somewhere in that theory is a universe where it has happened.  But...  Here's the catch.  Say we're about to start 100 more studies of psi and watch those results.  EVEN if we happen to be in the 1 out of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 universes where the first 100 studies showed positive results by chance, this says NOTHING about what will happen in the next 100 studies.  So if we are in that situation, what are the odds that the next studies will fail to work out?  999,999,999,999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000...  So in other words, even if by dumb luck you happened to be in the universe in which some psi studies worked in the past, then overwhelming odds says they would not work in your universe anymore, because most of the universes branching from any place you are at would have them not working.

BUT, this is not the case.  We all keep seeing psi studies working every time new ones are done.  (And if you are too young to have experienced this, keep watching.  It keeps happening.)  This is why the theory is safely excluded as very extremely unlikely to be true.
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November 17, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Reply #14

Steve

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Infinite people saw you fail at your attempt, infinite people saw you succeed; but the only perspective that counts to you is your own perspective that the events you wanted to happen did happen.

But that's definitely not the case with psi.  Psi is tested in parapsychology studies, and these studies don't JUST work out from the perspective of the participant.  We all exist in the universe where psi studies consistently get very significantly better odds than chance, from the perspective of everyone.  If psi were just due to the person doing psi shifting themselves into the extremely improbable universe in which astronomical freak events occur, then statistical studies of psi would not show it working.  The average statistical study of psi would line up with chance levels, because there is no reason to expect we have all consistently shifted into these astronomically improbable universe in which the psi studies keep working.

In essence, the proposed theory indicates that for each of us, ourselves would be the only person we had any reasonable chance of ever observing do psi.  And obviously this is not the case.

All those studies of psi only happened in universe branch you are in, there is a branch of universes in which it didnt happened and another branch of  universes in which it happened differently, there is a branch in which psi is not working and in some it is improbable, and in some it is easier than in one you are in. Psi happenes in perspective of everyone IN the universe that the one that did psi did it in (or actually the one that did it swithced to   ). And it doesnt happen in every universe, so in some of them the one that did psi actually didnt do it.  This is just the universe in which a lot of psi happened. There are universes in which noone even tried using psi yet and some with psi being a normal thing to do to everyone.
Xenophon: Effectively, your theory makes itself irrelevant.

The difference between "I tried to perform psi and it worked" versus "I tried to perform psi and my soul shifted to a universe where the intended result naturally occurred" is meaningless, for most realistic intents and purposes. Furthermore, it's impossible to verify. And lastly, why postulate about souls shifting universes when you can just say that your soul can do work? I mean, on the physical side of things, what you're asserting is along the lines of "I tried to throw a baseball, but instead my body shifted into an alternate universe where the ball was already in the air and moving in the direction that I wanted it to go".

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?