Author Topic: Magician's name  (Read 9631 times)

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August 08, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Reply #15

Shinichi

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Hence, you don't know Word Magic.  :P

ADNI isn't the "correct" Hebrew spelling. I have Israeli friends fluent in both modern and classical Hebrew that can attest to this, as anyone else there can. It's the magical spelling. Each Hebrew letter has an occult energy (or is symbolic of a force, if you prefer), just like each Rune has its own energy in Rune Magic. When the letters of a magical alphabet are organized in a particular way, you get a magic formula that can be used to exert influence internally or on the world around you via intonation, or Incantation.

ADNI is one of the 72 Names of God, an aspect of Jewish Mysticism.



~:Shin:~
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August 08, 2014, 06:16:05 PM
Reply #16

Akenu

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Hence, you don't know Word Magic.  :P

ADNI isn't the "correct" Hebrew spelling. I have Israeli friends fluent in both modern and classical Hebrew that can attest to this, as anyone else there can. It's the magical spelling. Each Hebrew letter has an occult energy (or is symbolic of a force, if you prefer), just like each Rune has its own energy in Rune Magic. When the letters of a magical alphabet are organized in a particular way, you get a magic formula that can be used to exert influence internally or on the world around you via intonation, or Incantation.

ADNI is one of the 72 Names of God, an aspect of Jewish Mysticism.



~:Shin:~

Hebrew doesn't have these: "A,E,I,O,U", I on the end of ADNI is Jod, which is sometimes read as I, sometimes as Y and sometimes omitted, depending on the convention. That's also why later they started to use little marks under each letter to specify where and how syllables are pronounced. e.g. like this:


I didn't finish the study of complex parts of Biblical Hebrew grammar, but I am damn sure about this one. I also know Shemhamphorash you are talking about, but Hebrew didn't spawn from mysticism, it spawned as a need of writing things down (and calculating things, that's why each letter is a number, as well).

August 08, 2014, 06:18:45 PM
Reply #17

Shinichi

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Futhark didn't spawn directly from magic either, but it evolved in that direction and can be used that way.

*waiting for Rayn's post*

*hopes he remembers to use paragraphs this time*



~:Shin:~
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August 08, 2014, 06:24:01 PM
Reply #18

Akenu

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Futhark didn't spawn directly from magic either, but it evolved in that direction and can be used that way.

*waiting for Rayn's post*

*hopes he remembers to use paragraphs this time*



~:Shin:~

Either Futhark or Futhork can be used in numerous different ways, including writing actual words with it (in the original language if you are into that). One's belief directs the way a system should be used for the sake of results.

August 08, 2014, 07:28:38 PM
Reply #19

Akenu

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Futhark didn't spawn directly from magic either, but it evolved in that direction and can be used that way.

I am using magic because it is the term that everyone knows, but the word magic is derived from Iranian practices which presuppose a cosmology where you have various distinctions made. The culture surrounding the Futhark, much like the ancient Egyptians, made no such distinctions. It was an inherent part of life. This is problematic when you attempt to interpret those cultures within the context of magic in that Western magic draws from its Iranian and Greek roots in terms of proposing distinctions. So, you are slightly correct. It is a language that spawned from a culture where what we interpret magic to be nowadays was inherent in that culture and inherent in beliefs around it. Whatever they called it, they did not call it magic, so I am curious what the original term was, actually... It is, technically, not proper to call it magic, but I have no knowledge of what word they used to describe it. Since it was an inherent part of life, cultures, back then, probably did not have an exact word for it...

seidr

Quote
When you do not take into consideration the cultural context, you miss a lot. Akenu, the idea of a "true name" in cultures that hold that belief only has relevance if you understand the language and the alphabet of the culture that holds that belief, otherwise, you cannot employ it. Unfortunately for you, a lot of the meaning behind sacred Egyptian sounds has been lost(though most of it is written in Coptic, so while the sounds are represented generally by Coptic, the reason behind the sounds has kind of been lost) and the same can be said for Druidic practices. When you look at say the magical papyri, for example, you will see various sounds made, but what they meant has been lost.

And... this is a bit out of scope. Let's make another thread if you think this is worth discussing (same goes for Hebrew or runes, Shinichi0.

Important for the reader of this thread is "Is it working for you or not?".

August 08, 2014, 07:38:49 PM
Reply #20

Shinichi

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Either Futhark or Futhork can be used in numerous different ways, including writing actual words with it (in the original language if you are into that). One's belief directs the way a system should be used for the sake of results.

I think of you as a good magician and a smart man, Akenu, but you are touching a subject that you very clearly don't know much about now. The magical use of language is a much bigger subject than you're making it out to be, with a wealth of practical application. I'm a big fan of simple, because I find all of this to be incredibly simple stuff, but there's a difference between simplifying the concepts of a subject and simply not knowing them; or worse, ignoring them.

Whatever they called it, they did not call it magic, so I am curious what the original term was, actually... It is, technically, not proper to call it magic, but I have no knowledge of what word they used to describe it. Since it was an inherent part of life, cultures, back then, probably did not have an exact word for it...

Speaking for Northern Magic, for lack of a better term: things like Incantation are called Galdr, which pretty much just means "singing." In the Eddas this is the term used for it, though different words are used here and there as I recall. There was ritual and stuff to an extent, as per the stories about Seidr, but the actual practices aren't mystified or anything, and the ritual seems to have been for the observers benefit more than the practitioner. The way myth describes it, communicating with spirits and doing what we call magic was just a fact of life, like you're saying. In some Northern European countries today today, there are still offerings made to spirits like Tomte.

Important for the reader of this thread is "Is it working for you or not?".

I found what you call a "magicians name" a long, long time ago. Your method of invoking it doesn't work for me because the nature of what the name is, to me -- invoking myself in this way serves little purpose, although I can use the name in interesting ways.



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

August 08, 2014, 08:31:59 PM
Reply #21

Merlin

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I found what you call a "magicians name" a long, long time ago. I can use the name in interesting ways.



~:Shin:~
I'm very interested to hear about how you apply that knowledge, if you'd be willing to explain. Hopefully I'm not asking anything too personal.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

August 08, 2014, 08:57:09 PM
Reply #22

Shinichi

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I'm very interested to hear about how you apply that knowledge, if you'd be willing to explain. Hopefully I'm not asking anything too personal.

One thing I did was made sigil out of a combination of the name I identify with and go by most often, and my "magicians" name, as this thread dubs it. As a result, I have a sigil that can be used as a personal "mark" of sorts, allowing me to magically brand something I want a strong connection to. There's also the incantation, which can be either magically vibrated or chanted as a mantra. Since I identify the Higher Self my own Spirit, and this name is my Higher Self, the incantation works as a way of directly refining and cultivating my own Spirit and connecting the Higher Self to my waking state. "Myself to myself," as Odin aptly put it.

Just to name a couple of things.



~:Shin:~

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"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

August 09, 2014, 12:55:22 AM
Reply #23

Akenu

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I found what you call a "magicians name" a long, long time ago. Your method of invoking it doesn't work for me because the nature of what the name is, to me -- invoking myself in this way serves little purpose, although I can use the name in interesting ways.

~:Shin:~

Hm, let me see if you have qualities specified in the article...
Adonai is, in form, different  from ADNI;

mmmm, no... The whole thread you are trying to... insult me? And with? Oh yes, good old gematria.

Oh, you know what, I have just noticed that English is Magickal language as well, because way you write down stuff and the way you pronounce it are two different things, look:
DAY - deɪ
OMG, THAT'S THE SAME THING AS
ADNI - Adonai
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Sorry if I am a bit melodramatic, now, but I just got woken up by screaming to find out I, Magickal language user, don't know much about Magickal languages or Magickal alphabets, mainly in the thread that has nothing to do with it.

I have also found out that someone had so clogged brain that he said something doesn't work for someone when there clearly wasn't any try at all.

But yeah, Shinichi, you are right, it won't work for you anyway, because you are expecting it not working too much ;-).

August 09, 2014, 03:04:24 AM
Reply #24

Akenu

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Sorry if I am a bit melodramatic, now, but I just got woken up by screaming to find out I, Magickal language user, don't know much about Magickal languages or Magickal alphabets, mainly in the thread that has nothing to do with it.

It has something to do with the thread because cultures that hold an idea of a true name believe that sounds have inherent power. Sounds correspond with an alphabet; therefore, if you do not have access to that alphabet to spell out a person's name, you can't work the magic. This is the point you are missing. The name of the person acts as a formula in terms of the sounds that are said to have inherent power. In terms of mechanic, what you said does not work because it, technically, is not an invocation; rather, it is reflection which can be done without all of these trappings. This makes the entire thing outlined in this thread unnecessary and not accurate. Your entire thinking about true names is derived from overly simplistic ideas about the concept that you do not understand. Your true name is merely the private name that your parent's gave you which is different than a public name. For example, Akenu(I am assuming) is not your true name. You have warped the concept into something bizarre. Whatever your parent's named you is your true name. So, according to these beliefs, if a person got a hold of your name that your parent's named you, they could work magic on you. I was being polite, but you really do not know what you are talking about. This whole invocation of inhuman self via a true name is pure nonsense as is that made up incantation at the end.

It's not a culture, you now? Words do indeed contain power, but it's not culturally based. If that was the case, then Jews, Hermeticists and Norse would have the very same words of power, because that would be the only way that would work, same would apply to the alphabet.

Now, no matter how silly this argument about true names is, especially when you were the first one to use this concept in this thread, there are in fact many spells on the internet telling you how to use one's name and his mother's maiden name for cursing. You can actually use whatever means of pinpointing one person, including photographs or internet profiles. Magick 101.

P.S. Before someone will be smart again. A photograph, a name or profile are not links to the person, rather a reference, same as Sigil is just a drawing, not a container of power in itself.

August 09, 2014, 05:54:06 AM
Reply #25

Shinichi

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Hm, let me see if you have qualities specified in the article...
Adonai is, in form, different  from ADNI;

mmmm, no... The whole thread you are trying to... insult me? And with? Oh yes, good old gematria.

I'm not trying to insult you, and I'm rather sorry that you feel that way. I am offering criticism on an article that you posted publicly, because I feel my experience with this matter is different enough from yours that it is worth challenging you -- your comparison of incantation to numerology emphasizes this, because they are very different subjects.

In this, Akenu, you are not any more infallible than Prophecy and Veos are -- sometimes you can be wrong, sometimes people should challenge you when your ideas are different enough from what your peers are experienced with, and none of this should be considered a bad thing or an insult. To hold on to an "I am right, so don't insult me" attitude is not very healthy in an environment where we are exchanging ideas and talking about subjects we all care deeply about. Such an attitude, which you currently are projecting, is very counterproductive to learning and is a very rude way of interacting with peers who are simply sharing their experienced perspectives with you -- to compare notes, as it were.

"I did not fail. I learned 100 ways to do the experiment wrong." -- Benjamin Franklin.

Oh, you know what, I have just noticed that English is Magickal language as well, because way you write down stuff and the way you pronounce it are two different things, look:
DAY - deɪ
OMG, THAT'S THE SAME THING AS
ADNI - Adonai
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW

English can be used as a magical language, but that's another matter entirely.

I'll try to explain this in a reasonable way, since you don't understand what Rayn and I have been talking about. Rayn probably has a few years of experience over me on this, so he can correct me if I fail to describe something adequately.

Magical Incantation works by vibrating a word. Right, so I'll assume you know that part -- Magical Formulas are the words that are being vibrated, and the correct way to pronounce the word towards magical aim.

Each letter of an Alphabet, and each sound of a language -- particularly when we are talking about traditions that use word magic quite deeply -- has its own individual meaning. Perhaps the widest known example of this in western occultism is Rune Magic at this point, since many people know Fehu means Cattle, and Kenaz means Fire, Isa is Ice, and so on. But this principle of "each letter has its own meaning" applies to other languages as well, and this individual meaning is used to describe the Natural Force of Metaphysical Energy that letter symbolically represents.

Understanding this, lets look at ADNI again.

Adonai is the simplified spelling of ADNI, for the sake of readability and grammar. ADNI, as a Magical Formula, is constructed of Aleph, Daleth, Nun, and Yod. Each of these letters have an individual meaning.

Aleph is the Ox, and culturally speaking for the Israelite, means more specifically something along the lines of "Guidance." For it is the Ox that pulls the cart, teaming up and doing the labor to pull you along.

Daleth is Door, and can more specifically mean the door of a building swinging open. This can be taken to mean that things are "opening up," as it were, and since doors often open inward in most buildings that I've seen it can be taken to mean "opening up to let something in."

Nun is Offspring, or Posterity. So in this, growth and the future is insured, or ones needs are acquired.

Yod is one of two letters that mean Hand, and is specifically a closed hand or a fist. In this it can be taken to mean Power, or that something has been taken hold of.

So when you perform the Incantation of ADNI, you are: Connecting to the force of Divine Guidance; Opening the Door to invite it inside; Securing a future version of yourself that is more Divine than the present self; and Closing your Grip on all of this at the end, so that the previous actions are sealed and solidified.

Verbal Sigils, in a way. My exact interpretations may be slightly off, since Hebrew magic isn't really one of my major interests - but the principles explained apply, even if meanings should perhaps be double checked.

This is Incantation 101, and is what Rayn and I mean when we talk about Word Magic. I suppose you could technically say there are a lot of ways to practice Word Magic, and especially since you are a Chaote this would be true. But when talking about classical systems, you have to take into account both cultural context like Rayn said and what is actually being practiced by these classical systems.

Also, for amusements sake, I can construct the exact same formula using Galdr to pretty much the exact same or at least a very similar end.

Ansuz, Dagaz, Naudhiz, and Eihwaz.

Wisdom, Day, Need, and Reliability to use short meanings.

ADNI.

:)


Sorry if I am a bit melodramatic, now, but I just got woken up by screaming to find out I, Magickal language user, don't know much about Magickal languages or Magickal alphabets, mainly in the thread that has nothing to do with it.

Stop saying that this thread has nothing to do with the criticism Rayn and I are offering you. Classically, a Magical Name is a Word of Power that is written as a Magical Formula. Rayn and I both know this, and we are offering you our perspective, born of our experience and studies. It was not an ordinary word that Isis took from Ra. Consider the Sigil of a Spirit, and how this gives the Magician more power over that spirit than just the pronounced verbal name.

Rayn and I are saying that you are either vastly over complicating what should be a rather simple operation of Introspection, or you are vastly over simplifying the power and nature of word magic. Both of these criticisms have everything to do with this thread, and with the operation that you posted here.

I have also found out that someone had so clogged brain that he said something doesn't work for someone when there clearly wasn't any try at all.

But yeah, Shinichi, you are right, it won't work for you anyway, because you are expecting it not working too much ;-).

You're assuming that I've never tried something similar, or that similar things don't exist in the systems that I practice. I have not said that an alignment or "invocation" of the HS is impossible, for classically this would be called Gnosis. My criticisms are more directed to your particular ideas about this subject.

Now, no matter how silly this argument about true names is, especially when you were the first one to use this concept in this thread, there are in fact many spells on the internet telling you how to use one's name and his mother's maiden name for cursing. You can actually use whatever means of pinpointing one person, including photographs or internet profiles. Magick 101.

P.S. Before someone will be smart again. A photograph, a name or profile are not links to the person, rather a reference, same as Sigil is just a drawing, not a container of power in itself.

Indeed, this is basic magic. Basics Psi, too. See something with connection, Scan the Target, information acquired -- including energy signatures. But this is not what we are talking about. We are discussing the nature of a Magicians Name, not just how it can be used against someone.

Towards this end, perhaps I should throw in one of the ideas from traditions that believe in Reincarnation. According to such, the Magicians Name is more adequately called the Initiate Name, and is the name that one took for himself in the life that first experienced full Initiation -- ie, Gnosis, Samadhi, or however you wish to call it. I'm sure most of the current participants of this thread may disagree, but when talking about classical ideas and context, this is an interesting one to throw into the mix.



~:Shin:~
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August 09, 2014, 06:21:41 AM
Reply #26

Akenu

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Look, Shinichi, I am aware of the meaning some people put into individual letters and the way formulas are derived from them, don't forget that I did study Kabbalah and I did practice Enochian, also please don't forget that I actually practice Armanen runes, even a consideration of these systems has nothing to do with this article no matter in what context you look at it.

If you wish to continue in this communication, please make a separate thread or find my article regarding Magickal formulae or my report regarding rune magick, there we can speak within or without the paradigm as much as you wish.

August 10, 2014, 05:42:14 AM
Reply #27

Shinichi

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Look, Shinichi, I am aware of the meaning some people put into individual letters and the way formulas are derived from them, don't forget that I did study Kabbalah and I did practice Enochian, also please don't forget that I actually practice Armanen runes, even a consideration of these systems has nothing to do with this article no matter in what context you look at it.

Then please do not confuse everyone with a sophomoric attitude that makes everyone think you don't have a clue, when you do. I appreciate humor and playfulness as much and more than most people, but there's a time for play and a time for mature discussion. A lot of confusion and time might have been saved in this thread if you had followed Rayn and I, to clarify or counter things properly, instead of thinking us idiots and getting emotional. I, at least, was trying to offer discussion about the nature of a magicians name and how it might be used -- everything that happened besides that was just miscommunication.

And indeed, the discussion of Word Magic has everything to do with this article. A name, after all, is a word.

For one, there is Rayn's point that context is important. Not every historic tradition holds the same value of magical names, and as such, different traditions practice this idea differently. An Old Norse name or an Old Egyptian name has power not merely in its pronunciation and base meaning, but in its Formula -- while other systems, like Kotodama in Japan, work on the intrinsic meaning of a word as a whole, along with the Kanji meanings which make up the whole.

The whole thing about Adonai and ADNI was a discussion on the former and was originally only mentioned as a passing example, and as for Kotodama, my username here is actually an example of that. When I initially signed up for Veritas six years ago, Shinichi popped into my head as an intuition. A few months later I learned the meaning and the Kanji for the word, and applied Kotodama to it so that it may serve as a Magician Pseudonym, if you will, and both hold me to a certain standard in places like this and influence me internally. This is also why, for six years, I have signed every single post I make under this name with ~:Shin:~ -- it isn't an act of vanity, but is rather an act of magic in itself. The part about internal influence is particularly important with Magical Names, because simply by calling myself Shinichi and letting the forces of that name influence me, I have developed a progressively stronger connection to my HS over the years, without doing any sort of ritual or exercise with the name at all.

So names are important, but not just because they sound cool, or because they represent you in some action -- whether you consider the Magical Formula of a name, or if you just take into account the psychology of applying a word that has an intrinsic meaning to yourself magically: words have power, and both can and should be used carefully. Particularly with names.

This also gets into how to actually use a Magicians Name, which is the point of the other criticism: the ceremony offered in the original post is either vastly over complicated, for a variety of reasons, or is vastly over simplified. And that's besides whether or not such an invocation is necessary in the first place, especially towards the end of separating mundane and magic.

To be a bit more constructive on that particular matter: it would be helpful if the term "Higher Self" was clarified for the sake of unknowing readers, as well as an explanation of why an invocation should be done the way you describe -- separation of mundane and magic isn't, in my opinion, a good enough reason. My mundane life is plenty magical just as my magical life is plenty mundane, I'm perfectly capable of telling the difference between the two, and I dare say hurting someone because I am angry is an issue to be solved with anger management and not with a division of my magical and mundane selves.

And to explain why I think separation is unnecessary and potentially unwise, let me offer my experiences with a similar exercise:

When I was fifteen years old, about three years before I even really knew what the occult was, I developed an intense fascination with Viking Berserkers. I decided that Berserkers were the coolest guys ever, being able to transcend their physical limits and become super men. Suffice to say, my earlier interest in things like anime didn't help this fascination. I couldn't help but analyze the similarities between Berserkrgang and things like going Super Saiyan in DBZ -- not only for the obvious reasons, but also the academic reasons of where they got the idea.

So I decided to enter a berserkr trance. Long story short, I did so by performing a full invocation of my animal self (words that, in retrospect, I can apply to what I actually did intuitively) -- the conscious mind went to sleep while my body moved, and quite literally, I became an animal. As nice as it was to have actually done something like this, it wasn't particularly good for me. It was, after all, the opposite of the HS invocation. A number of experiments later I dropped the practice, though not before developing an emotional instability that plagued me for years -- on top of basic teenage hormones, and the fact that I had gained a sense of psychic empathy a few years earlier that in itself caused emotional problems.

Later on I did try to do similar things with the HS, shortly after I was introduced to the concept of a "Higher Self that is the real and true You." The results were nice, meditatively speaking, but ultimately they were just as impractical -- where as an animal I lost my balance downward, invoking the HS caused a lost balance upward where I became very ungrounded for a considerable amount of time. Something that was only amplified by the emotional instability gained by the previous experiments. You could say that a certain separation between spirit and mundane was achieved, but indeed, that was the source of many problems.

After going through all of that, a separation of any of these things is something I deem impractical and for the most part unnatural. A man who cannot accept the whole of himself has no chance to master himself, for he cannot master what is not his. What I've found to be more practical is a sense of harmony. I do not hate any part of myself, or separate any part of myself from the rest. My HS is me, and my Ego is me; I am, at the end of the day, an animal in the flesh as much as I am a magician in the spirit -- for I am truly nothing more than one whole me, nor anything less.

Studying the parts of the whole is fun and good, in the same way it is good to study the different aspects of the physical body so that you can become healthier and stronger. However, I do not want to be a part of the whole; I want to be the sum of the parts. That is, in my opinion, The Magician.

If you wish to continue in this communication, please make a separate thread or find my article regarding Magickal formulae or my report regarding rune magick, there we can speak within or without the paradigm as much as you wish.

Just to let you know, your Formula article here on Veritas (this one?) only has a link to your blog and the link no longer works.



~:Shin:~
~:Completed the 2013 Qi Gong Study Group:~

"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

August 11, 2014, 02:09:33 AM
Reply #28

Akenu

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Just to let you know, your Formula article here on Veritas (this one?) only has a link to your blog and the link no longer works.



~:Shin:~

Ah, good point, I was tidying on the blog, I guess these are the alternatives, then:
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,22777.0.html - Alphabet of Desire
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,21574.0.html - Traditional way of working with Sigils
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,21419.0.html - Charging Sigils

But to the topic, a belief that a separate sound has a power is a very specific one and not everyone holds this belief, for me it is more a combination of sounds what matters,but truly when I practice e.g. Armanen runes I do hold the belief of each sound having its own power, it then makes more sense.

August 11, 2014, 07:53:12 AM
Reply #29

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Knowing the name of your Higher Self refers to the ability to control the HS.

Can you substantiate that claim a bit?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ael/ael13.htm

There you will find a story of Ra and Isis. In summary Isis refused to heal poisoned Ra and forced him to tell her his real name.

Thank you Akenu. So I take it you are associating Ra with the HS and Isis with the ego? What makes you conclude that the latter can 'control' the former?
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate