Author Topic: Deformities and the Energy Body  (Read 22701 times)

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August 04, 2014, 07:40:39 PM
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Merlin

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Hello! I recently had surgery (the Nuss Procedure) to correct my Pectus Excavatum, a deformity of the chest wall, and I am now very curious about how this relates to the anatomy of my energy body, both before and after surgery. I'm also wondering how I should treat the titanium bar in my chest... should I consecrate it, or do something to kind of "blend" it with my energy?

More than simply my case, I'd love to hear what any of you have to say about deformities in general, and what they mean for the energy body. Or lost limbs? Or paralyzed limbs?

"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

August 05, 2014, 02:53:20 AM
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Akenu

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I generally don't believe in a concept of energy body so I wouldn't say there is any difference in that sense.
But there surely is a difference in your physical body which will lead to some mental changes, as well. How do you yourself feel about the effects of the surgery and of the titanium bar? Does the bar feel as different from your body or as a part of it? Do you feel comfortable with it? If not I would certainly do some consecration.

August 05, 2014, 07:36:14 AM
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Merlin

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I generally don't believe in a concept of energy body so I wouldn't say there is any difference in that sense.
Would you mind elaborating on that belief? How does it correlate with concepts like the chakras?

But there surely is a difference in your physical body which will lead to some mental changes, as well. How do you yourself feel about the effects of the surgery and of the titanium bar? Does the bar feel as different from your body or as a part of it? Do you feel comfortable with it? If not I would certainly do some consecration.
Thank you for the advice! I think I will consecrate it.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

August 05, 2014, 10:02:04 AM
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Akenu

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Hah, that's simple.
First four chakras reflects quality of your life on various levels, let's consider the simplest ones.

Root chakra is a reflection of how well you are "rooted" in reality
Second chakra reflects the state of your sexuality (and also bowel movements)
Third chakra reflects the state of your willpower, how much in control you are or how much depressed/stressed you are for not having a control.
Heart chakra reflects your overall health state.

Other three chakras are a bit longer to explain (will write an article, soon), but basically a chakra is the indicator. It indicates certain aspects of your body, of your mind or of your emotionality, this also implies that working directly with the chakra won't affect the site it indicates. Consider this: If your tongue is blue, it means you are sick (or you were licking a paintbrush). But massaging your tongue won't cure your sickness.

August 05, 2014, 01:29:10 PM
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Akenu

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More than simply my case, I'd love to hear what any of you have to say about deformities in general, and what they mean for the energy body. Or lost limbs? Or paralyzed limbs?

Energy bodies do not intrinsically exists. Deformities don't really have any significance, to be frank, metaphysically. Chakras, too, also do not intrinsically exists. Historically, they were all created to explain biological processes where biology and chemistry is adequate in explaining these things; therefore, it is no longer needed. These concepts tend to come with normative view points.

Morality is derived from principles behind the system of metaphysics which creates a type of philosophy, so people who embrace those philosophies would have a hard time holding onto them if they rejected the frameworks from which they were derived. I believe that is why it persists even though it is wrong. Some people feel lost without a tradition, need direction in their life, not satisfied, so on and so forth where the thinking fufills a psychological need; however, since a lot of the spirituality is derived from things taken for granted about energy and such, they can't really reject it and thus perpetuate something that has been largely disproven. I think it serves as some sort of means of motivation. so I am not saying it is entirely negative in that the frameworks create something that can motivate people; however, the beliefs are kind of wrong.

Biological processes are completely powered by chemical interactions; therefore, there is no need to propose that there exists an energy body that vitalizes the physical body in that the physical body; therefore, we can disregard holistic ideology. People tend to object because of how they learned metaphysics. Generally, they accepted a lot of premises as fundamental to their practices where if you invalidate those premises, you kind of throw them into a whole different game where they have to learn new things and realize that a lot of things they thought were true were false. People don't like that.

When I make these points, people tend to speak of them being traditional for thousands of years without really looking at why they, themselves, value tradition. Traditions give one a framework for their experiences in which to grow; therefore, it guides them, motivates them, and gives them consistency; therefore, it will have meaning to those type of personality types which is why it is valued, so when you rock that boat, you basically make it so that they no longer know how to practice.

I believe this will be more readable.

Anyway I agree with Rayn, I would just add the "lower" the chakra is in the system, more mundane is the idea behind it. That's also why I spoke about just 4 lower chakras, upper 3 chakras need much better explanation and also explanation of the idea behind nadis.

August 05, 2014, 04:28:10 PM
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Merlin

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Thank you both so much; my boat has certainly been rocked.

And I'm really looking forward to that article, Akenu.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

August 13, 2014, 10:56:08 PM
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Mind_Bender

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The energy body is a reflection of the physical, or vice versa in certain traditions (Daoist sects for example), so in that sense, what happens to the physical shell has repercussions on the energetic/psycho-spiritual level. Karmically speaking, from the view of reincarnation, your deformity may represent a lack of love or compassion in a past lift and the surgery and plate may represent a fixing of a past of hate. Or maybe you were/are such a loving and giving being the plate is a very literal reminder to be wise in choices of love and other matters of the heart. The lungs may also come into play - breathe smarter and relax your mind-body complex via the breath and clear padt karmas and make way for better flow in your life. Just a few examples of possibilities.

I follow the principle that energy effects the body and the body reflects the energy so we should be wise and safe towards both. A good diet and regular movement and breathing practice keeps the body healthy, mind alert, and gives us clarity and strength. These are all signs of healthy qi/energy flow as well.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

August 16, 2014, 08:06:48 PM
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Merlin

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The energy body is a reflection of the physical, or vice versa in certain traditions (Daoist sects for example), so in that sense, what happens to the physical shell has repercussions on the energetic/psycho-spiritual level. Karmically speaking, from the view of reincarnation, your deformity may represent a lack of love or compassion in a past lift and the surgery and plate may represent a fixing of a past of hate. Or maybe you were/are such a loving and giving being the plate is a very literal reminder to be wise in choices of love and other matters of the heart. The lungs may also come into play - breathe smarter and relax your mind-body complex via the breath and clear padt karmas and make way for better flow in your life. Just a few examples of possibilities.

I follow the principle that energy effects the body and the body reflects the energy so we should be wise and safe towards both. A good diet and regular movement and breathing practice keeps the body healthy, mind alert, and gives us clarity and strength. These are all signs of healthy qi/energy flow as well.
I really appreciate your input; thank you!
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

August 17, 2014, 09:45:13 AM
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mystic

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I highly urge everyone here to read this
http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/cultivating_the_tao_4.html

To be frank there's no discussion really after reading the above link. From a longmen pai perspective, the body we have is both important and also not important in that it is not the true body.

The distinction is extremely important in terms of any practice that you perform. Seriously, read the above link

August 17, 2014, 10:51:56 AM
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Merlin

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I highly urge everyone here to read this
http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/cultivating_the_tao_4.html

To be frank there's no discussion really after reading the above link. From a longmen pai perspective, the body we have is both important and also not important in that it is not the true body.

The distinction is extremely important in terms of any practice that you perform. Seriously, read the above link
I read the article, and I'm fairly certain that I understand your message, but would you mind rephrasing it more directly? Simply saying that the body is "important and also not important" doesn't help much, and I don't want to misinterpret you.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

August 17, 2014, 11:22:31 AM
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mystic

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Quote
I read the article, and I'm fairly certain that I understand your message, but would you mind rephrasing it more directly? Simply saying that the body is "important and also not important" doesn't help much, and I don't want to misinterpret you.

Quote
From a longmen pai perspective, the body we have is both important and also not important in that it is not the true body.
...
Why is this so? The illusory body (huanshen) is the body of flesh; the illusory mind is the human mind. Eyes, ears, nose, tongue, mouth, and intellect all come forth from the illusory body; pleasure, anger, sorrow, joy, love, hate, and desire all come forth..

As for the true body and the true mind, they are the dharma-body (fashen) and the celestial mind (tianxin). ☞ Yin and Yang and the ☞ five agents come forth from the dharma-body; the Infant, the Lovely Maid, the Mother of Wood, the Lord of Metals, the Yellow Dame, as well as coral, agate, crystal, jasper, and gold are all born from the celestial mind.

As far as the true and false it is delicate balance. Just because you argue this isn't the true body doesn't mean you should treat it equally bad. All things in balance that includes the true and the false. But someone (for instance) that loses an important organ can still be of the longmen pai or any path of chinese / indian cultivation.

It is the above concepts that are touted in both respective schools

August 17, 2014, 11:42:37 AM
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Mind_Bender

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Good article from the Daoist perspective, but before everyone learns to focus on the center of duality and aim for enlightenment, a systemized approach of concepts - chakras, deities, forms, etc - is good, preferred, until the aforementioned concepts from the article and such are realized upon ones own studies. Plus, the body as illusion is one concept that is not always helpful on the path as that concept can, and has, led individuals and groups to mental aberrations, suicidal cults, and denial of real to life ailments. Good for reference, in my opinion, but stick to what your mind and body feels and percieves. Soon enough the truth of your energy body, mind body, illusion or not, will shed its own light through personal realization.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

August 17, 2014, 12:51:47 PM
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mystic

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I'm going to slightly disagree purely from a daoist / buddhist perspective:

Quote
Good article from the Daoist perspective, but before everyone learns to focus on the center of duality and aim for enlightenment, a systemized approach of concepts - chakras, deities, forms, etc - is good, preferred, until the aforementioned concepts from the article and such are realized upon ones own studies.

Really, understand that the concepts that you are referring to are reinforced with an individual's culture and history. One large caveat of models such as this is trying separate the cultural, historical, anthropological and get right down to the similar message philosophical and religious systems each argue to provide.

In essence, you get bogged down with what isn't important versus what is important. And sometimes, that's a given because conceptually, none of these teachers expected to teach anyone outside of their own culture (especially to zealous westerners) so there's a difficult balance between that. And it's a large issue why we have horrible mistranslations of sacred text, incomplete teachings of Chinese / Indian lineages and even a whole field of cultivation that hasn't been tapped yet.

Don't get into a mental trap that you need this foundation, you need that foundation in order to understand. The conclusions (rather the cultivation milestones) that a person achieves are important and can be achieved without someone ever knowing what a chakra is, what a dan tian is, what yin and yang is.

These concepts are just that. Concepts that are used to describe reality so we can discuss things like this, but who defines the description? Who says your description of (for instance) yang ascending up the three channels is actually occurring and not something far dangerous?

Don't get bogged into this. You will actually do more harm than good because at the higher levels, the concepts are fewer (with good reason). However, I argue if the concepts are necessary to begin with.

So what you know chakra, you know quiescence, congrats. Do you know those aren't necessary?

It's a rather tenuous chicken and egg approach, but to be frank, if I never learned anything I learned before, I would be in a much better place in terms of cultivation. Because it also means I didn't get the incomplete / improper information promoted to the west and east for a lot of my practice. And that's important.

A really good question to ask is if you have a boat and you already crossed a river, you know you're not going back, why do you need the boat? It's served it's purpose and beautifully I bet. But once the purpose has been served, it's been served.

To take it a step further, is the boat even necessary? Sometimes it's not.

August 17, 2014, 01:23:28 PM
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Mind_Bender

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I'm not talking about a paradigmal perspective, or yin channel, yang channel, chakra system, etc. In my first post I clearly defined the chakras as a conceptual system, one that people use as guideposts for advancment. I know no one needs a system that is overtly dogmatic (you say don't get caught up in this or that with cultivation, yet you are always debating through Daoist and Buddhist concepts, which is, in itself, a mental and intellectual cultivation you are quite stringent upon) but basics are good.

What I was trying to get across is, to repeat myself, use the whole body and energy systems as guideposts for training. If you feel stale in your right ankle, breathe into it to relax, then continue to breathe and relax throughout your wole body. No yin, no yang, no root, brilliant or crown chakra - just breathe, feel, chant, dance, stretch, exercise, sing, etc, and your energy will stabalize to your nature. Traditions are good for specific techniques, philosophies, and healing modalities, but psychic powers, which I believe are inherent although hidden and veiled by conditioning, will open up when you accept yourself and dance with the wind. This is the 'dao' without the cultural jargon.

I'll keep the rest short, but for example, my vitality has gotten stronger through playing music and sparring with friends? Why? Because the kung fu masters and neurologists said these practices are good for me for that reason? No. Because they are my natural flows. Yes, certain traditional techniques work in a more universal sense, like self-massage and deep breathing, but beyond that, cultures and dogmas tie you down. Breathe, relax, enjoy your life!
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

December 14, 2014, 01:14:32 PM
Reply #14

Kyfixorus

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How can you exist with out energy when everything you "skeptics" rely on is made using energy? To deny the existence is to slow bio kinetic evolution.
When your eyes are open its the physical
When your eyes are closed its the etheral
If you act the part reality will chase you
Be the being you wish and the choices will tighten the knot of thought to become your new conscious state.