Author Topic: Evolution  (Read 10159 times)

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January 21, 2014, 07:16:17 PM
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JustinReeves

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Do you believe in evolution? And if you don't, why?

January 21, 2014, 07:56:27 PM
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Constructman

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By evolution, are you talking about the process of evolution itself (which I wholeheartedly believe is an accurate observation) or are you talking about how evolution has impacted humans (ie are we really descended from monkeys, etc.)?

The actual process that evolution represents I feel is an accurate one (genetic mutation, natural selection, etc.); however, I am not sure about the prospect of a last universal ancestor from which all life is descended. I am also not sure about how humans fit into the process, and coming from a religion that believes man was made by God, it just adds to the confusion.

January 21, 2014, 08:12:50 PM
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Mind_Bender

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I believe a creative Source was first, is foremost, and eternal, but with that said, I also believe in evolution. You plant a seed and it grows into a plant, tree, or creature.  You focus on internal change and your old friends and associates no longer recognize who you have become. We were created to recognize our own beauty, and I think that is what evolution is - a moving picture of us towards our perfection.

From a more humanesque view, as physical beings, we learn and change internally and externally constantly, but our spiritual essence or soul is perfect, we just lost sight of it and evolution is helping us return to the understanding of our perfection.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

January 21, 2014, 09:55:29 PM
Reply #3

Rayn

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I believe a creative Source was first, is foremost, and eternal, but with that said, I also believe in evolution. You plant a seed and it grows into a plant, tree, or creature.  You focus on internal change and your old friends and associates no longer recognize who you have become. We were created to recognize our own beauty, and I think that is what evolution is - a moving picture of us towards our perfection.

That is not evolution... That is called development. A baby that grows from an infant into an adult is not evolving into another species; rather, it is merely a member of the human species physiologically maturing. What you said has nothing to with biological evolution and is quite nonsensical.

Do you believe in evolution? And if you don't, why?

Yes, because there is more than enough evidence to establish it as a fact, so it would ignorant to not believe in.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 01:23:19 AM by Rayn »
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.

January 22, 2014, 05:39:55 AM
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EllyEve

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Evolution isn't about belief. Science is not about belief. It's about people who don't know, and are doing their best to find and figure it out, or at least it should be.

I don't see why politics or culture should have charged the "evolution meme" with an agenda other than sharing with us plebes something that happens in too big a perspective for many of us to care, but I appreciate this explanation as to a mystery of nature.

Sometimes it isn't appropriate, like I used to be a huge fan of evolutionary psychology until I saw how problematic it was from the standpoint of kyriarchy. Not everyone is there, and that point that is there shouldn't be everywhere.

But generally I like it.

Quote
Here is a story that I believe.

Once we were blobs in the sea, and then fishes, and then lizards and rats, and then monkeys, and hundreds of things in between. This hand was once a fin. This hand once had claws.

In my human mouth I have the pointy teeth of a wolf and the chisel teeth of a rabbit and the grinding teeth of a cow.

Our blood is as salty as the sea we used to live in.

When were frightened, the hair on our skins stands up, just like when we had fur. We are history!

Everything weve ever been on the way to becoming us, we still are.

Im made up of the memories of my parents and grandparents, all my ancestors. Theyre in the way I look, in the color of my hair.

 And Im made up of everyone Ive ever met whos changed the way I think.

January 22, 2014, 10:42:21 AM
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Mars

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Evolution is clear to me, I believe in an original divine creator, but we evolve not just biologically, and mentally but spiritually every day. I think it is the way of things, to ever evolve yet stay the same, a grand contradiction and confusion that I have yet to understand.
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

January 22, 2014, 01:20:27 PM
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JustinReeves

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By evolution, are you talking about the process of evolution itself (which I wholeheartedly believe is an accurate observation) or are you talking about how evolution has impacted humans (ie are we really descended from monkeys, etc.)?

The actual process that evolution represents I feel is an accurate one (genetic mutation, natural selection, etc.); however, I am not sure about the prospect of a last universal ancestor from which all life is descended. I am also not sure about how humans fit into the process, and coming from a religion that believes man was made by God, it just adds to the confusion.
I was talking about the whole theory about how humans come from a common ancestor of monkeys and the evolution that happens to a species over millions of years through natural selection.

January 22, 2014, 01:23:38 PM
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JustinReeves

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I think it's fascinating that the theory of evolution states that every living creature came from one single organism.

January 22, 2014, 02:00:49 PM
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Constructman

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I think it's fascinating that the theory of evolution states that every living creature came from one single organism.

Well, the matter of that organism came from aside, the whole process makes a lot of sense. When organisms reproduce, sometimes the resulting organisms may have differing genetic codes. The process repeats itself, with organisms with adaptations unsuited to the environment dying out, ad infinitum.

I still don't really understand how the transition form prokaryotes to eukaryotes and other big jumps worked though. I'll have to do a lot more reading on biology.

January 22, 2014, 02:32:31 PM
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JustinReeves

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It's just amazing to think that every organism came from one single organism.

January 22, 2014, 04:51:27 PM
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Rayn

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I was talking about the whole theory about how humans come from a common ancestor of monkeys and the evolution that happens to a species over millions of years through natural selection.

Chimpanzees and humans share chromosomes; therefore, we know there is a genetic relationship that is more recent than say a turtle because humans are less genetically similar to a turtle.

There are other factors involved. For example, you have what is called exaptation in which a trait that an organism has serves a different function in a different environment(parts of a bird's wing is not functional which means that its earlier forms would not have survived long enough for natural selection to have really taken hold). For example, feathers, initially, were not used for flight; rather, they were for insulation and three bones of your inner were originally the jaw bones of a prehistoric fish. Our bipedalism, for example, is a result of an exaptation of our flat feet as a result of squat feeding leading us to leave the "trees" having helped to facilitate walking on two feet. Evolution is a well established fact, so if you do not believe in it, you are just plain wrong as if you believed the Sun moved around the Earth. In addition to natural selection, you have what is called genetic drift. So, in addition to natural selection, you have genetic drift, exaptation, and a few other things.

..and other big jumps worked though. I'll have to do a lot more reading on biology.

That is up for debate among Darwinist and Neo-Darwinist.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 06:30:39 PM by Rayn »
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.

January 22, 2014, 05:40:02 PM
Reply #11

Steve

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Do you believe in evolution? And if you don't, why?
Do you believe in gravity? And if you don't, why? :)

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

January 23, 2014, 12:16:32 AM
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Mind_Bender

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It's just amazing to think that every organism came from one single organism.

Yeah, it's kind of mind boggling, and how everything is made of the same basic atomic structures to become even more multifaceted atomic structures... but quantum physics isn't the same as evolution. I wonder how, or if, particle physics relates to evolution  :confused:
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

January 23, 2014, 04:47:37 AM
Reply #13

JustinReeves

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Do you believe in evolution? And if you don't, why?
Do you believe in gravity? And if you don't, why? :)

~Steve
I'm guessing you asked this question to make us realize that you are pretty idiotic if you don't believe in scientific fact.

January 23, 2014, 06:58:21 AM
Reply #14

EllyEve

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Do you believe in evolution? And if you don't, why?
Do you believe in gravity? And if you don't, why? :)

If you've dropped anything on the ground, and call that habit "gravity" then it's easy to know rather than believe.

Evolution is something sophisticated and bigger. Not everybody looks at their opposable thumb and just knows that it came from millions of years of living cells happening to work together and then work better with the environment that they're in.

Rather than gravity, it's more like... Do you believe in the cosmological constant that prevents all the planets crashing into each other, or do you believe that the universe is expanding at a rate that renders the cosmological constant moot? It's like, as long as the planets don't crash into one another and kill us all, or unless that's an imminent threat we can do something about with such knowledge, then why would most laypeople care enough to believe in it?