Author Topic: Abusing Temporal Mechanics for Fun and Profit  (Read 13045 times)

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March 06, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
Reply #15

Impervious

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I understand that this technique cannot change already known outcomes. However, would it be at all possible to change unknown variables that then somehow affect the known outcomes? For example, let's say I popped my bike tire by riding over a nail. Let's also say that I never notice the nail. So in this situation, all I know is that my tire popped after riding over a certain patch of land. Would it be possible to use retro-selection to 'move' any piercing object out of the area, thus negating the popping? (I don't know the nail is there, but I can still assume it was something sharp; since I don't know what that something sharp was, can I remove its influence from my tire?)
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March 16, 2012, 06:47:11 AM
Reply #16

Willi

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I don't understand the exact mechanics involved, but judging by your own logic - you still know what it is. You might not know it is a nail, but you know it is 'a sharp object'.

March 16, 2012, 11:15:17 AM
Reply #17

Impervious

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You're probably right there. What if the situation was more complicated? Let's say, one comes home from work and finds that one's pet is injured. If you had no idea how the injury was sustained, could one try to "fix" the injury by retroactively eliminating most of the possibilities one can think of?
Or, since one already knows the pet is injured, could one at least eliminate the more dangerous possibilities in an attempt to lessen the severity or long-term consequences of said injury?

I apologize if I am babbling at this point.
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March 16, 2012, 02:21:34 PM
Reply #18

Willi

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I don't think that would be possible - still by following your logic - no matter how abstract you make the situation, there's still one 'thing' you're looking to remove. That 'thing' is no different than a nail.

March 23, 2012, 10:00:55 AM
Reply #19

Hellblazer

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Let's say I wanted a good parking spot at the mall, so I go to the mall today and get the perfect spot. Then two weeks later I do the retro selection. Isn't this kind of pointless as what I wanted already happened. Would this not be just rehashing some already fulfilled desire. Not to seem negative but this just doesn't seem worth it. If it's already happened then you not doing it at a future time will not cause some world ending paradox. It seem like "I had a pepsi yesterday but I want one today" "I guess I'll think about how good it would be to have a pepsi yesterday." The only thing I can see working like this is altering a memory of the past to make yourself think you did something that you didn't. Correct me if I'm wrong.

March 23, 2012, 10:30:09 AM
Reply #20

Akenu

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I guess it's a kind of time paradox. If you don't do the working later, it won't happen to begin with.

March 23, 2012, 10:38:46 AM
Reply #21

Hellblazer

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Then how do you truly know that you did it anyway. Seems like a version of self fulfilling prophecy. You think you made it happen yesterday when it would have happened anyway. I can understand future selection but retro selection just seem rather false. No disrespect meant at all.

March 23, 2012, 11:08:10 AM
Reply #22

Akenu

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Good be interesting test...
You want something now, it happens, you do the working later.
You want something and it doesn't happen, you don't do the working later.

You want something with strong intention that you will do the working later and it happens. You dismiss the working and universe explodes... :D

March 23, 2012, 10:30:00 PM
Reply #23

kobok

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Let's say I wanted a good parking spot at the mall, so I go to the mall today and get the perfect spot. Then two weeks later I do the retro selection. Isn't this kind of pointless as what I wanted already happened. Would this not be just rehashing some already fulfilled desire. Not to seem negative but this just doesn't seem worth it. If it's already happened then you not doing it at a future time will not cause some world ending paradox. It seem like "I had a pepsi yesterday but I want one today" "I guess I'll think about how good it would be to have a pepsi yesterday." The only thing I can see working like this is altering a memory of the past to make yourself think you did something that you didn't. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the underlying principle of operation is supposed to be the commitment to a plan, where truly committing to do something serves as a mechanism for having it happen in the future.  If you're just whimsically wanting something, or not really of the right character to commit to definitely doing something, then I don't see how this approach would work.
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March 24, 2012, 01:10:02 PM
Reply #24

Hellblazer

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I understand how future selection works in the same way as sigils do. Same mechanics different approach. Retro Selection just seems pointless. I mean if you have to set something up in the future for it to happen in the past, how do you honestly know that you did it and that it wasn't just a coincidence? I mean the future is never set in stone but the past is long gone, it's done and over with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging down the technique but I questioning how valid it is.

March 25, 2012, 07:54:51 PM
Reply #25

TakeV

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Let's say I wanted a good parking spot at the mall, so I go to the mall today and get the perfect spot. Then two weeks later I do the retro selection. Isn't this kind of pointless as what I wanted already happened. Would this not be just rehashing some already fulfilled desire. Not to seem negative but this just doesn't seem worth it. If it's already happened then you not doing it at a future time will not cause some world ending paradox. It seem like "I had a pepsi yesterday but I want one today" "I guess I'll think about how good it would be to have a pepsi yesterday." The only thing I can see working like this is altering a memory of the past to make yourself think you did something that you didn't. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If the question is why bother, then I'd like you to picture a situation for me. You've been up all night, so you are tired. You are waiting, early in the morning, for some big project or final to start. You want it to be smooth sailing, but you can't focus due to your fatigue, and there is simply not enough time to meditate to gain the proper focus needed to perform the future selection. You've only got a minute. Which, as it so happens, is enough time to formulate a plan to perform a retro selection to ensure that the final is going to be easy and smooth sailing.

In short, the point of this is to be able to perform all of this cool psi stuff, when there is not enough time at the moment to do so right now. And yes, that example is something I've encountered before (Physics finals can really suck sometimes...)

However, there is another point you've made, which needs addressing, and I'm glad you brought it up. There is a question which looms over this article, namely:

How can we be sure that this is due to our influence, and not just something that would have happened anyway?

First of all, let's apply your example of the parking spot at the mall to a normal future selection situation. First, let's say that you want a good parking spot at the mall, so you go ahead and do a future selection before you leave to go. Then, hey, you get there, and someone is leaving just as you drive by your favourite store, right there in the front. Cool. But here is the question: how did you know that it is your influence? It might have just happened anyway, with no relationship with your psi performance.

How do we know that any of this works? Well, there are two options: We can either use it to make something really hard to deny happen (This is stuff like the psiwheel), or we can keep performing future selections on everyday things like your parking lot example, and note if it works most of the time or not.

So, repetition and consistency are what we are looking for to prove that a psionic effect is happening. This is good, because that's how we do science, incidentally (Remind me to write an article telling everyone that science and psi are not enemies, one day).

Therefore, to prove that this is happening, we have to do this repeatedly. Isolated incidences like the example you gave ARE of suspect. If you did it once, and this happened, I would be suspect. If you could, say, write a note to yourself for later, and the thing you wrote to yourself happened almost all the time, then I'd be inclined to believe you. I can say that this is how I confirmed that it works.

But, let's say that you wrote a note to yourself to get a good parking space, and then forgot to perform the selection, yet still got the space anyway. Well, is it difficult to believe the non-retroselection situation, where you could have performed a future selection before you left, forgot to do so because you got interrupted by a phone call or something, and still got the space? This is just a coincidence. You can't rely on coincidences to happen each time. No psionic action happened.

However, with proper practice, performing a psionic action would almost guarantee a situation happening. That's what this is all about: guarantees.

March 25, 2012, 08:10:49 PM
Reply #26

kobok

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I understand how future selection works in the same way as sigils do. Same mechanics different approach. Retro Selection just seems pointless. I mean if you have to set something up in the future for it to happen in the past, how do you honestly know that you did it and that it wasn't just a coincidence? I mean the future is never set in stone but the past is long gone, it's done and over with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging down the technique but I questioning how valid it is.

What you are proposing is that it is not falsifiable, but it is.  Here is a simple way to test it that I think would be a sufficiently rigorous protocol for use in a careful study:

Obtain a random number generator (which I will refer to as six-sided dice and coins for ease of picturing it).  On each day of the experiment, follow a sequence like this:

Noon:  Flip a coin.  If heads, this will be an experimental run day, so pledge to yourself that you will perform the retrokinesis at 6pm.  If tails, a control run, so you will skip the retrokinesis.
1pm:  Roll the dice a large number of times, and record the results.
6pm:  Roll the dice once, see what number comes up, and then perform retrokinesis to try to make all of the dice rolls from 1pm be the number that you just got.

Repeat this a large number of days.  Then evaluate whether the dice significantly match the number used for the retrokinesis session for each day.  You can separately evaluate whether the experimental sessions result in the numbers clustering around a single value more than the control sessions.

If this experiment succeeds, then the approach works, and it's not just coincidence.  Thus, it is certainly a valid technique to propose, even if it violates our normal intuition about causality.  And of course we don't have to wait for the results, because similar experiments have already been done and were successful.

(For figuring out if it works for you personally, consult TakeV's post typed concurrently to mine, and just above this one.  For personal purposes, the same mindset is used as for the experimental approach, just scaled to what a single person can manage.)
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June 22, 2013, 11:30:34 AM
Reply #27

jayfk

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I know that this is a old thread but I just wanted to congratulate the author of this. It is very well written and is not something I had thought of using before. It's not all that hard to use either and when used correctly works very well. I have only tested it once so far after reading this, but once the basic concept is understood I was able to adapt it to my particular style of energy work. I was very surprised at how easy it was as I've never done any temporal energy work before.

You know it occurred to me that when my energy levels drop to low from not feeding on elemental energy (or other sources of energy) it is sometimes very difficult to get them back up to normal levels. This is something I can use for emergency situations like that. The very concept of this has so many applications, I was so impressed I felt like I had to make an account and thank you for sharing. I will continue to thumb around this site after reading this one article. I have of course my own style of techs but it is always interesting to see a new perspective from others, and look forward to learning other concepts that I would not have thought of.

Needless to say you have all caught my intrest
Stop and listen so you may hear.

August 21, 2014, 07:52:31 AM
Reply #28

Middelnil

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This is a really good article.

I don't know if I understood it correctly.
So, I just decide and write down what I want to happen and I decide when I want that to happen. Does that mean that the effect lasts from that day on? For example, lets say that I want to be able to sense everything with as high clarity as possible. So, I get the effect on that day, but does it last? If it lasts, does it last until the day when the actual work to obtain the ability happens and then I just notice that I don't have the ability at all, that I have to practice hard to get it back?

I am quite a new practitioner after all, so I am not able to do kinesis just yet. Does it matter?

When the actual time comes to perform the work for the gain ability/effect, is it as hard as it would be without the effect? How do I actually have to work on that day, the same way how I would have before I gained the ability? If I were to practice everyday more advanced stuff with my really great and clear new sensing ability, does that count in as a work towards the ability? 


I know I'll soon have the nickname 'Middelnil the Grave Digger'... I apologize for doing this again. I just didn't see any point in creating a new thread regarding this thread.

Much appreciated!