Poll

When you forgot your dream then recalled it, which came first?

feeling
image

Author Topic: Dream recall  (Read 5683 times)

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December 15, 2013, 10:27:30 PM
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Examples
for option 1: "I feel a fear then suddenly I remember that in my dream I was being chased by Barney."
for option 2: "As I was walking, I saw Barney on the corner of my eye in the toy store then suddenly I remember in my dream that I was being chased by it."

I just want to know which has the highest score because I had this rare experience that I can recall my feelings during my dreams without the accompanying images. Of course without the images you cannot describe the dream, I cannot describe my feelings either, I just happen to 'feel the dream'. In other instance (once only) I felt the dream then summoned the images & then recalled the story of that dream which occurred several years ago.

December 21, 2013, 06:06:10 PM
Reply #1

Noctus

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I wonder if it's signifigant that feeling is atleast twice visual...
Understanding is a power all on its own...

January 06, 2014, 11:14:32 PM
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I wonder if it's signifigant that feeling is atleast twice visual...

can you elaborate it?

January 09, 2014, 01:27:43 PM
Reply #3

Mars

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http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,22430.0.html

Check my article out, It might help you with any sleep related queries.
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

January 14, 2014, 11:12:05 PM
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Thank you Mars  :)

May 16, 2014, 01:16:00 PM
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Iatros

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At least according to the unconscious vs. conscious theories of the mind, it is possible to remember feelings or emotions of dreams without remembering their actual content because, simply, dreams occur in a mostly unconscious state. Dream recall consists of communication between the unconscious and conscious divisions of the mind, or maybe some degree of unification of the two (what Jung would call individuation).

In waking life, emotions are also mostly unconscious. PEople seldom choose how they feel about something, and more often they start with an emotion and then make logical thoughts that correspond to that emotion. So you are remembering feelings of dreams without their content because the mind more naturally has conscious access to emotions than vivid imagery or series' of events.

If you close your eyes, relax deeply, and focus on the feeling, you may be able to recall the dream. This is especially true if you practice this regularly. Let your mind be clear, focus on the feeling, and allow the memory to come back naturally.
"And in this lies my honour and my reward, - / That whenever I come to the fountain to drink I find the living water itself thirsty; / And it drinks me while I drink it." - Almustafa

May 16, 2014, 07:10:55 PM
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Rayn

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In waking life, emotions are also mostly unconscious. PEople seldom choose how they feel about something, and more often they start with an emotion and then make logical thoughts that correspond to that emotion. So you are remembering feelings of dreams without their content because the mind more naturally has conscious access to emotions than vivid imagery or series' of events.

It is not that emotions are unconscious; rather, emotions physiologically have origins outside of the brain in other parts of your body where they are later appraised via cognitive processes where the context of the sensation can determine how it is interpreted and viewed. If you are an anxious person, for example, you are likely to think of neutral sensations in an anxious context and thus feel it as anxiousness whereas, for someone else, it could simply be excitement and not nervousness where the same sensations are felt(a feeling in the stomach, a faster beating heart, so on and so forth). That actually makes empathy a lot bit problematic, because when I pick up other people's emotions, I can misinterpret the sensations associated with the experience per how I view mine and thus mislabel the emotions. Emotions are closer to sensations that are interpreted where the context of your experience frames the emotion you interpret it to be. The physiology behind it is more primitive than symbols and language, so it is not that it is subconscious per psychoanalytical theories; rather, it is really a primitive set of sensations that are interpreted per a particular cognitive context where it is not always expressed in terms of language because it is more basic(a lot of emotions we experience we have a hard time putting words into but we feel them in our body).
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 07:17:02 PM by Rayn »
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.

May 16, 2014, 07:28:43 PM
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Mind_Bender

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"...emotions physiologically have origins outside of the brain in other parts of your body where they are later appraised via cognitive processes..." // "the physiology behind it is more primitive than symbols and language..." // "...it is a primitive set of sensations..." are all equated with subconsciousness. Feeling an emotion in the body is unconscious because the rational and analytical mind, for most people, do not recognize that the somatic sensations have anything to do with their emotions and mental processes. If the emotion stems from primitive survival extinct, such as from the reptilian brain, usually refers to the subconscious as well, as well as symbolic associations. At least from the literature and people I have come in contact with about such concepts.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 07:31:57 PM by Mind_Bender »
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Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

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May 16, 2014, 07:58:05 PM
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Rayn

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If the emotion stems from primitive survival extinct, such as from the reptilian brain, usually refers to the subconscious as well, as well as symbolic associations. At least from the literature and people I have come in contact with about such concepts.

Hmmm, no... Mammals, for example, communicate their physical state via vocalizations where these can trigger physiological responses in members of the same species. Babies cannot speak, for example; however, their cry triggers levels of distress within people saying that the offspring is distressed. You see this with a lot of other mammals but not so much reptiles, so a lot of our emotional wiring comes from our mammalian, and not reptilian, brain where the purpose of emotions is more or less cooperation. The offspring of many mammals cry out when distressed which can trigger aggressive behavior in its parents.

Feeling an emotion in the body is unconscious because the rational and analytical mind, for most people, do not recognize that the somatic sensations have anything to do with their emotions and mental processes.

Not true. When people experience sadness or heartache, for example, they will say their chest hurts(your vagus nerve runs through your chest and plays a large role in your emotions). When they describe being anxious, they will say their stomach has butterflies. If you ask people what it is like to be in love, they will describe how the person makes them feel. People have access to their feelings via their bodies where they may not always know the context of the sensation and thus not know what it means or how to label it or how to express it; however, that has to do with the physiology behind it and not a conscious/subconscious dichotomy.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 08:46:39 PM by Rayn »
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.

May 16, 2014, 09:11:14 PM
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Mind_Bender

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Heartache may or may not be subconscious. If you know the cause is the memory of an ex-lover, than it is a rational and conscious association, but if you feel heartache after hearing a song you never heard before without the slightest clue of why, it is a subconscious association. Your heart may ache and you may cry because of the new song, but there being no association beyond that, means the reaction is out of your control.

Another example is when you get angry at someone for raising their voice at you, such as a wailing infant. At first the aggrevation seems like a conscious decision, but later when you realize the anger doesn't stem from the child crying but from unresolved issues about your own upbringing pushes the aggrevation into the realm of unconscious reactionary behaviour (also called instinct, which stems from the reptilian brain), not an aggrevated reaction to a pissed off baby. If we really love our children than anger has no place in our hearts because unconditional love overrides any hasty decision to become over emotional at an infant. Even distress is overridden because the parent, after the initial shock, knows how to calm their newborn down. Any lingering emotion, even the good ones, are usually associated with unconscious reactions of our neurochemical makeup. Our ear drums may be shocked by the torrent of noise but that has nothing to do with our emotions only our physiological reactions.

Fear or happiness in a dream state all relate to the subconscious unless of course we are lucid. But even in lucidity our dream selves still feel random emotions. You can be aware that bad dreams make you wake up in a sweaty mess and remember the dream itself but without knowing that the somatic expression of sweat stems from how the dream is a symbol for the loss of your lover you are unconscious of the cause. The line between conscious and subconscious in relation to emotion stems from the cause of the association not the association itself.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 09:22:54 PM by Mind_Bender »
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

May 16, 2014, 09:30:06 PM
Reply #10

Rayn

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Being a physical representation of a mental experience that has no immediate conscious association makes it subconscious. After you inquire into your emotional state and find the cause through rational inquiry than it becomes conscious because your rational mind than understands the connection of the psychosomatic reactions. Heartache may or may not be subconscious. If you know the cause is the memory of an ex-lover, than it is a rational and conscious association, but if you feel heartache after hearing a song you never heard before without the slightest clue of why, it is a subconscious association. Your heart may ache and you may cry because of the new song, but there being no association beyond that, means the reaction is out of your control.

No, because your emotions are physical; therefore, it is not a physical representation of a mental experience, for it is a consequence of a physiological reaction, and in terms of the underlying biology, it is possible to have an emotional reaction for no reason at all. Biological factors that impact such things are stochastic where any combination of factors at particular times can trigger emotional reactions. Your physiological state is never constant, always in a state of flux, and when coupled with some stimulation in the environment, can trigger emotional reactions that have no underlying cause beyond the physiology that gave rise to it. As I pointed out, mammals communicate via vocalizations more basic than language where we are wired to respond in certain ways to certain noises on a basic level which impacts our emotions, so there may not be any underlying reason why a song makes you sad. It would kind of be like the reason you see blue when you see a particular wave length of light. It is how your physiology creates a sensation.

If we really love our children than anger has no place in our hearts because unconditional love overrides any hasty decision to become over emotional at an infant. Even distress is overridden because the parent, after the initial shock, knows how to calm their newborn down. Any lingering emotion, even the good ones, are usually associated with unconscious reactions of our neurochemical makeup. Our ear drums may be shocked by the torrent of noise but that has nothing to do with our emotions only our physiological reactions.

Your statement presupposes that you cannot unconditionally love your child and be angry at them; however, that is not true nor have you given a reason why we should take it as true, though, it has nothing to do with my statement. I said distress. I did not say anger. While anger can be distressing, it is interesting how your mind associated the emotion a parent would feel towards a child to anger... Most people would associate concern or worry; however, your mind thought of anger. Interesting...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 09:35:56 PM by Rayn »
Noein - A Resource on Psi, Science, and Philosophy
but sorcery refuses to be a metaphor for mere literature--it insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies. It is not a critique but a re-making. It rejects all eschatology & metaphysics of removal, all bleary nostalgia & strident futurismo, in favor of a paroxysm or seizure of presence.