Poll

What is your stance toward the propositions in the OP? (If you are unsure about one, count yourself as agreeing).

I agree to all of them.
1 (9.1%)
I agree to almost all of them.
1 (9.1%)
I agree to all of the 'M' ones, and most of the 'R' ones.
0 (0%)
I agree to most/all of the ones marked 'M', but not many of the 'R' and ''B' ones.
3 (27.3%)
I agree to very few of them.
6 (54.5%)
I don't agree to any of them.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: October 10, 2013, 10:01:44 PM

Author Topic: Who agrees to the following propositions?  (Read 15820 times)

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November 13, 2013, 05:20:54 PM
Reply #60

TakeV

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By not killing and even though my actions would seem cowardice, in the long run, according to my example, I saved my self from death so as to save others down the road. It is profound in that what seems to be mere cowardice or 'cruel pacifism' becomes a tool for mine and others salvation.

Or, in simpler terms, I am non-violent out of great love and kindness, giving me a depth of (personal) understanding of service versus heroism.

How is that profound?

November 13, 2013, 06:41:14 PM
Reply #61

Mind_Bender

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Mars, there is nothing wrong with your viewpoint and I feel the same way, I am just sticking to the example of simple morality not my actual moral standpoint in the given situation... although I would still be quite cautious of an assault rifle. Propaganda like that is inspiring and the people have a good reason for stepping in but it is still reckless and can get others, including the hero, killed. Mind you, these stories are two good outcomes compared to vastly more horrendous outcomes that are saved for the homicide department and not public news.

Even if the intention wasn't violent the action is since you would be harming another. I understand wanting to help people, and good for you being brave enough to help someone out against armed attackers, but a gun is a different story, and abiding by the example, we are talking about an assault rifle not a pistol. You also have to think of distance and other bodies- if you are close enough to disarm the gun there is still a chance of a stray bullet hitting an innocent.

You also have a misunderstanding of my backround and upbringing- it wasn't all butterflies and spiritual intellectualizing as you assume. To make things clear, 'non-violence' is an example of simple morailty and I am defending my alter egos position not my real one- in reality, I do believe violence is a last resort, but if it comes to it, take out your opponents as quickly as possible and make sure they stay down.

TakeV, philosophical musings aside, it is profound ('coming from or reaching a depth') because it has meaning beyond simply 'I will not hurt others,' and uses non-violence as an axiom of spiritual service.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 07:00:27 PM by Mind_Bender »
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

November 14, 2013, 12:55:05 AM
Reply #62

TakeV

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TakeV, philosophical musings aside, it is profound ('coming from or reaching a depth') because it has meaning beyond simply 'I will not hurt others,' and uses non-violence as an axiom of spiritual service.

I have yet to meet someone who didn't have justification for their morality and axioms for their own spirituality. And most people have non-violence as one such axiom.

November 14, 2013, 01:49:36 AM
Reply #63

Mars

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Mars, there is nothing wrong with your viewpoint and I feel the same way, I am just sticking to the example of simple morality not my actual moral standpoint in the given situation... although I would still be quite cautious of an assault rifle. Propaganda like that is inspiring and the people have a good reason for stepping in but it is still reckless and can get others, including the hero, killed. Mind you, these stories are two good outcomes compared to vastly more horrendous outcomes that are saved for the homicide department and not public news.

Even if the intention wasn't violent the action is since you would be harming another. I understand wanting to help people, and good for you being brave enough to help someone out against armed attackers, but a gun is a different story, and abiding by the example, we are talking about an assault rifle not a pistol. You also have to think of distance and other bodies- if you are close enough to disarm the gun there is still a chance of a stray bullet hitting an innocent.

You also have a misunderstanding of my backround and upbringing- it wasn't all butterflies and spiritual intellectualizing as you assume. To make things clear, 'non-violence' is an example of simple morailty and I am defending my alter egos position not my real one- in reality, I do believe violence is a last resort, but if it comes to it, take out your opponents as quickly as possible and make sure they stay down.

TakeV, philosophical musings aside, it is profound ('coming from or reaching a depth') because it has meaning beyond simply 'I will not hurt others,' and uses non-violence as an axiom of spiritual service.

Sorry the last statement was meant to be a lot more general statement but I put 'you'(reffering to those who never have experienced violenence) instead of they (those in context of general statement), I apologise. There are a lot of people who talk of violence and war and poverty, when they have never experienced like they were experts its slightly annoying...   :headwall:

I would certainly weigh up my options too. Of course if I felt I would do more harm than good I would almost certainly run and call the police rather than jump in headstrong. But usually on the fight and flight method I usually would feel more cornered by someone with a gun due to my biological response and therefore more likely to attack back as if he turned with a machine gun it doesn't matter how fast I run I cant' outrun a bullet. Its an extremely difficult and delicate problem, and from being in this situation well (not with guns) I can say its really difficult to do the most pragmatic or logical thing.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 02:10:02 AM by Mars »
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

November 14, 2013, 11:58:38 AM
Reply #64

Mind_Bender

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Mars, I totally agree.

TakeV, although I said my morality was profound, I never said anyone else's was not as well. It was a Zen reference to 'simple yet profound,' not egoic 'mine is more profound than yours!'
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

June 19, 2014, 04:26:01 AM
Reply #65

JzRayD9

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    [/li][li](B) Physical things only exist insofar as they are perceived.[/li]
  • (M) The purposeless lifestyle of the world is wrong. Life is supposed to be full of meaning and a deep sense of purpose, and one's beliefs concerning the meaning of life should be one's primary occupation.
  • The correct morality includes a rigid sense of Justice which manifests itself at least partially in retributory actions.
  • (R) The ends justifies the means.
  • (M) The sort of empty, shallow, but intense pleasure that can be gained from things like randomly throwing the word "up" after verbs, dancing to pop music, morbid thoughts, and such is an evil pleasure.
 

> --  I like these last ones. Very interesting.
Our modern Lifestyle is full of materialism and minuscule tasks made out for exaggerations. It is indeed 'wrong'.
"Correct morality"__  You have a great point- Not sure how to word this,  But morality is like a matter of perception for me. It depends on your view of things around you in contrast with others.
"The end justifies the means"  Would you possibly be able to elaborate please?  _ Or maybe explain what you mean by that
"  Intense pleasure,  gained from things like randomly throwing the word "up" after verbs, dancing to pop music, morbid thoughts, and such is an evil pleasure"   ---------------Wow, >>>  Feeling a little sadistic there??
Anyways,  Thank you for sharing, it was a great read.
--Jasmin