Author Topic: Is dualism out of the question for the Bardonist?  (Read 2178 times)

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September 01, 2013, 04:01:55 PM
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pseudonym

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I'm not referring to the good God/evil God type of dualism, I mean Creator/creation dualism.

In other words, is it within the realm of possibility that what one experiences in the the Step X merging with the one self/the universe is not the same as merging with God.  Monism seems to make God and the Universe synonymous, where as I would say that when one experiences the universe as self, you're doing just that: merging with the Universe and nothing more.

I still believe that, as the Kybalion says, the universe is mental, I just don't believe that the reason it's mental is because it resides within the mind of God.

I'm saying, is it possible that everything in the Kybalion and the Bardon material is true regarding the laws and nature of the universe, that these effects are true but the causes are something other than what Monism postulates?

September 01, 2013, 07:59:35 PM
Reply #1

trismegistos

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Step 10 is not merging with God, Step 10 is the attainment of Gnosis, which is merging with the Higher Self.  It is from there that you would work towards merging the Higher Self with God to reach the state of Henosis.  However, in Gnosis, you do recognize yourself as being unified with the Universe, just not quite yet with God Himself who resides at a level above that, so you are basically correct.

September 02, 2013, 02:19:29 PM
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Steve

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I don't tend to see a lot of intense discussion about the nature of reality compared to the nature of the gods. Most people seem to have their own view, and since it's a nigh-impossible thing to prove one way or another, people tend to just let each other have their own views.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism - Gods exist as part of nature, ie the meadows and the forests, however, the Gods also exist beyond nature (they are greater than nature, but they can still be found in nature).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism - Nature is divine, divine is nature, there are no personal/entity/conscious/being "gods".

And then polytheism is where a person believes in multiple gods, versus monotheism where a person believes in a single god. Panentheism can be either monotheistic or polytheistic, but pantheism would technically full under the category of atheism as there are no personal gods, not even "Mother Nature". Also, the belief that God or The Gods are distinct from nature entirely, because they created nature but are not directly tied to it, tends to fall under general polytheism and monotheism even though it should technically be its own distinct concept (I can't find/remember the specific term that I was looking for).

So, depending on who you talk to, yes it is within the realm of possibility that merging with the universe would not be the same as merging with God, though those who believe that God(s) is/are the Universe and vice versa would disagree. I'm, personally, not familiar enough with Bardon's work to state what his beliefs were, and thus trismegistos and others can help you out better on that topic :)

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

September 06, 2013, 06:21:11 PM
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Trillis

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I'm not referring to the good God/evil God type of dualism, I mean Creator/creation dualism.

In other words, is it within the realm of possibility that what one experiences in the the Step X merging with the one self/the universe is not the same as merging with God.  Monism seems to make God and the Universe synonymous, where as I would say that when one experiences the universe as self, you're doing just that: merging with the Universe and nothing more.

I still believe that, as the Kybalion says, the universe is mental, I just don't believe that the reason it's mental is because it resides within the mind of God.

I'm saying, is it possible that everything in the Kybalion and the Bardon material is true regarding the laws and nature of the universe, that these effects are true but the causes are something other than what Monism postulates?

You can call it whatever you want, but you do not merge with anything; in your meditations you just fall away and realize that you've been it all along.