Author Topic: The Divine Science Probationer Enrollment now open (August 5, 2013)  (Read 32387 times)

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October 16, 2015, 11:14:20 PM
Reply #210

Rodz

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I also want to say that the said co-founder of Dragon Rises is a great practitioner whom I have much respect for. This practitioner that People's Champ was seeing was at the referral of Ramose and Veos, which invalidates the argument that they selfishly wanted to cure him, and wouldn't send him to another healer. I was present when Ramose and Veos sent Beka to this same practitioner, because they thought she could help.

So there you have it. Limited knowledge, and false accusations. Maybe the boys can call it a day on the medicinal aspect of things. I think we've covered it.

I am wondering now if you are just hearing from other students second hand about the thread without reading it. False accusations?

A quote from earlier in the thread.


You know what was the final stab in the heart though? When my brother met directly with Veos tolding him he was leaving, Justin told him he was going to pursue Daoism. Veos was happy we were going this route.

What pierce our hearts is when he said "I have read his works and there is nothing he can't cure."

So he knew about how well medical qigong doctors can heal. Yet he never told us. For me, this came out of a huge ego as he wanted People's Champ to be healed "his way" and not through another system that was not his. For me that was betrayal. He should have guided him earlier to a qigong doctor but in the 4 years he was here, he never did. All because he assumed the source of his pain was anger, when once again it was not. As someone who was not a trained professional this was not his call to make. I also recall him saying in a lecture that he could give remedies to relieve a student's suffering but doesn't so they can learn through pain. Again, this is not his call to make. I know they did not do this in the case of my brother and I know they had good intentions but again, they were not qualified for it. The fact they knew better healers but never mentioned it because of the insistence of using "their" way, for me shows their ego right there.



In the eight principles of Chinese medicine, there are different types of heat that are diagnostic. When a practitioner uses the term excess heat, they are referring to a type of heat called full heat. This type of heat manifests as boils, green puss, red acne, headaches, and all types of infectious manifestations. Given what I just described, we all know that nobody is experiencing these symptoms from the practices. So what do we have left if not excess heat? You got it, deficient heat, which is another term for yin deficiency. This, again, shows the limited knowledge that these accusations and claims against the school are based on.

I also want to shed some light on the fact that TCM is a standardized system of Chinese medicine that was formulated post-communist China, and, being an atheist country, it's easy to understand how this form of Chinese medicine is devoid of its spiritual roots. Now this isn't to say anything negatively towards the system of medicine, for I highly respect it's methods. I'm only pointing out that a TCM practitioner has no understanding of the Taoist principles that a classically trained practitioner would have. I am aware that in TCM training, the cycle of the Five Elements, and all of their transformations in the human body is lightly touched on in a day of class. TCM practitioners are far removed from their Taoist roots, and have little knowledge of what the Taoist meditative approach is to spiritual evolution and health. How could a practitioner of this system have any authority to say what a practice is or isn't doing?


As for the 5 Elements TCM I will gladly let People's talk more into the matter as he has been going into quite a bit of detail of how the meditations are damaging others and not damaging some. I am quite sure chalking it up to "excess heat" is a gross over simplification. But we shall let him explain it.


October 17, 2015, 12:41:06 AM
Reply #211

Kemetin

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Never knew there was so many qualified TCM doctors on Veritas.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 12:46:55 AM by Kemetin »

October 17, 2015, 04:19:11 AM
Reply #212

Ruhdelen100

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There is one thing I've been curious of ever since the beginnning. What about the positive experiences of those of you who had bad experiences with the school? Do you have any? If yes, could you share them with us too for a more balanced, objective and truthful perspective and tesitmony of your experience as a student, a member or a teacher? Thank you.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 06:31:56 AM by Ruhdelen100 »
無敵!

October 17, 2015, 04:28:44 AM
Reply #213

Kemetin

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I just want to do the right thing which is to have an avenue where ex students and teachers can post negative testimonials about the school without current students and teachers arguing with them or trying to discredit them.

In other words, you want to completely abandon even the flimsiest pretense of aiming for objectivity or open debate or free speech so you can have somewhere where you can trash the school and it's members in an angry, toxic echo-chamber and they aren't allowed to defend themselves? You don't see the problem with that?

The kind of environment that would be fostered in such a thread would be just as ludicrously one-sided as anything the most kool-aid guzzling cult could cook up.

Whatever the subject at hand, nothing in this world is black and white, and that should reflect in the way we conduct our discourse surrounding said subject.

Imagine how people would react if someone did the reverse and created a thread where they encouraged people to flock and post only positive testimonials and nobody was allowed to counter them. Oh, but that would be cult-like behavior, wouldn't it?

Meanwhile, TDS can't create a simple 'hey just FYI we're opening a new class for anyone who's interested' thread without it turning into 15 pages of bile spewed all over them.

October 17, 2015, 06:18:22 AM
Reply #214

Trowa

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October 17, 2015, 07:13:46 AM
Reply #215

Peoples Champion

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....and it continues.... I won't be posting as much as I have to take care of my pet who's spinal issues have warranted a lot of surveillance and care taking. I'm talking having to clean his urine and feces from his fur since he can't do it himself anymore.

Ok since discrediting seems to be all the rage. I'll mention this. Veos told me in my face that he took the clairvoyance exercise straight out of JaJ now since again it's just word, you don't have to believe me in that, but this happened the last time I spoke to him. He mentioned he gave that exercise to the daskaloi.

This implies he has certainly known about him for a while. Not to mention there was another student who ramose said could fix his specific issues and yet when that student asked Ramose about it repeatedly, he was ignored. Because this is the Living Master who is so far above karma he clearly has the authority to decide your fate.

Sure he did tell me about Dragon Rises, but he never talked about JaJ ever. Not even once. Not until much much later after my tendon was already damaged and the arthritis was bad, and the last time I talked to him mentioning why I'm done with the school. All he had to do was say it before since he said he taught the daskaloi his specific exercise, but clearly he didn't because he thinks he knows everything.

I wish I had a voice recording of the conversation but sadly I do not, and even if I did illegal recordings are a law in Florida so it wouldn't be of any use. But again, this is what he told me in my face, using JaJ's clairvoyance exercise.

TDS: counter point, oh you're lying and just advertising for JaJ. No I'm not, plenty of other books have psychic sense exercises, this is what he specifically told me.


Sure he will deny it, at this point they have demonstrated that a lot since many (not all) users coming here seem to ignore the thread entirely and go straight from TDS propaganda. That's ok, whatever floats your boat.

As to you, I'll mention this. 5 element actually works with the medical qigong institute. And as Rodz mentioned energetic practices are actually above physical acupuncture. This is not as an insult, as the Chinese even see it as the next level of it. The energetic practices are detailed to the point that certain colors of energy work are forbidden to patients who have a specific health issue. I recall orange and red for example being contraindicated for someone with blood pressure problems.


So of course the physical aspect won't be able to show exactly why the meditations damage someone, they can see the effects but not do a proper diagnosis as a medical qigong Doctor would be able to. They can do not only pulse diagnosis but also energetic diagnosis.


I mentioned dragon rises since again, so far as I predicted very early in the thread I knew exactly the direction it would go just based off the people of TDS and so far it has been going exactly as I figured it would. When you attempted to reflect the higher authority to me, I simply was using your own reasoning against you since you just attempted to do the same thing.


And for denying it doesn't cause excessive heating, again, there was not just me but another student that it was burning up our nerves. For him it was different from me as mines was focused on the lower part of my body, specifically below the knees since nerve injury site was within calf muscles.


This isn't to come across as rude but honestly it won't affect quite a bit of people because the people I've seen who said they had "health issues" were objectively minor. It didn't prevent them from living their lives, if anything it just served as an annoyance, but nothing so traumatic that they were not able to live their lives and have to put everything on hold and focus on getting better.

The students who have had issues that severe suffered the most from it. Though again I do know of another student who wasn't doing well with the meditations though he didn't have super severe issues and has since left the school. Another one still had heating issues but again, this is brushed off.

To find out the exact mechanics why I would have to do energetic diagnosis which I can't do, the only way to show you exactly would be me having to do the meditation again (which I'm hesitant to do since I know how much it's going to hurt but since I'm being ignored I'll gladly do it at this point) and have my medical qigong Doctor explain it as he could to a far better job, diagnosing me after I perform it for a few days to accurately explain why. And of course I will be very detailed in this report.

Though I don't see him for a couple of weeks but I like this experiment, I'll gladly do it. I just ask for some patience. But I'll gladly respond with exactly why. :)

So if anything you're suggesting that it is ok for it to be a gamble instead of it being done safely. Which apparently seems to be out the window with the group as clearly that doesn't matter in the slightest. Even Shinichi mentioned before why proper precautions have to be taken but you guys seem to enjoy ignoring this really really hard which I already had to mention.

If you keep trying to discredit me at this point it won't surprise me but having to keep bringing specific examples again and again is getting ridiculous. Even scanning of pages clearly isn't working since you guys just brush us off, so I can see that doing that would be a waste of time.

I've been reiterating again and again. Actually look up proper safety precautions. Actually research on it and you'll see that I'm not making any of this up. This cult personality of essentially being told what to think is honestly at this point really creepy...

Even when the doctor explains why it's harmful I can bet people will ignore that. At that point, I've done my part in explaining it all. But if you try to discredit me at that point, then I won't even bother responding as I've covered everything with as much detail as possible. He will do a wonderful job of explaining it better.

As you have said, "I'm sure that covers it." Especially after I see him, that will definitely cover it. So you're certainly correct. The doctor has been practicing for years too, so he will certainly know much more than a third year student, as while I'm learning still, he will gladly help me out, and explain in much more detail.   :wink:

Any extra attempts at shooting yourself in the foot, please, for the sake of your own school, stop it. As the idea to test the exact way it affects people wouldn't have occurred to me until you intervened. So again, if you keep it up you're only going to make the school look worse as a cult who cannot handle any form of criticism.

October 17, 2015, 07:45:10 AM
Reply #216

Kemetin

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Kemetin:  I locked that thread, move on.

I made my post before you locked it (going off the times on my post and on your post in the other thread - it certainly wasn't locked when I looked at it right before typing up my reply), so I'm not sure what "move on" is supposed to mean exactly.

October 17, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Reply #217

Trowa

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Kemetin:  I locked that thread, move on.

I made my post before you locked it (going off the times on my post and on your post in the other thread - it certainly wasn't locked when I looked at it right before typing up my reply), so I'm not sure what "move on" is supposed to mean exactly.
I am confused as to why you are confused.  I was informing you that I had locked the thread, and therefore it wasn't a problem any more.  I was informing you because you protested against the thread.  Therefore, you may "move on", as it's not a problem any more.

It's intermittent, but there are times when I mean exactly what I type.  :)

October 17, 2015, 08:22:38 AM
Reply #218

Kemetin

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Kemetin:  I locked that thread, move on.

I made my post before you locked it (going off the times on my post and on your post in the other thread - it certainly wasn't locked when I looked at it right before typing up my reply), so I'm not sure what "move on" is supposed to mean exactly.
I am confused as to why you are confused.  I was informing you that I had locked the thread, and therefore it wasn't a problem any more.  I was informing you because you protested against the thread.  Therefore, you may "move on", as it's not a problem any more.

It's intermittent, but there are times when I mean exactly what I type.  :)

I protested against the thread while it was still open. It would have made sense to tell me to move on if I kept doing so afterwards, but since I didn't, your comment was kinda superfluous. Thus the confusion.

October 17, 2015, 08:29:22 AM
Reply #219

Mobius

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I am going to weigh in here a bit.

So far as my reading goes, several people here feel victimized by The Divine Society's leadership and practices. I'm going to be frank: There won't be much further toleration for attempts to lambaste these people for sharing their experiences. There won't be any more 'rebuttals', challenges of their character, or other such nonsense. If you think they've misunderstood something or otherwise are in error, you're welcome take it up with them courteously in private. I repeat, public attempts to discredit them, in any manner, will not be tolerated.

Victim blaming, including for dissenting from a group, is an abhorrent practice that I will not suffer to have here.
Deus Ex Vir

October 17, 2015, 08:32:42 AM
Reply #220

Trowa

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Kemetin:  I locked that thread, move on.

I made my post before you locked it (going off the times on my post and on your post in the other thread - it certainly wasn't locked when I looked at it right before typing up my reply), so I'm not sure what "move on" is supposed to mean exactly.
I am confused as to why you are confused.  I was informing you that I had locked the thread, and therefore it wasn't a problem any more.  I was informing you because you protested against the thread.  Therefore, you may "move on", as it's not a problem any more.

It's intermittent, but there are times when I mean exactly what I type.  :)

I protested against the thread while it was still open. It would have made sense to tell me to move on if I kept doing so afterwards, but since I didn't, your comment was kinda superfluous. Thus the confusion.
...

Change "move on" to whatever semantics will let you understand that I am just informing you that I had locked the thread in question and it wasn't a problem any more.  Clearly this was a mistake and I will make no further attempts to appease you in the future.

October 17, 2015, 08:41:51 AM
Reply #221

Shankara

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There is one thing I've been curious of ever since the beginnning. What about the positive experiences of those of you who had bad experiences with the school? Do you any? If yes, could you share them with us too for a more balanced, objective and truthful perspective and tesitmony of your experience as a student, a member or a teacher? Thank you.

-I met my husband.  This one made everything worth it. :)
-I met some really good friends, better than any other friends I've ever had
-I experienced some past life memories that might not have come up without triggers from the teachers and other students.  Some of these I wouldn't have believed, but when I knew who other people were, it was easier for me to believe them.
-I felt pretty good after some of the transmissions (though they said that one transmission was equivalent to 2-3 years of your own evolution, and I never really felt anything different after a transmission, just during and maybe that night)
-I learned about Gurunath and Kriya Yoga (Ramose initiated me), and through Nath's organization, met another really good friend and spiritual mentor.
-I had some good meditation experiences (though I've had better ones doing Kriya, or even just stillness meditation).
-I liked some of the practices (Vital Force Accumulation especially, which I had never have done, even thought it's from IIH, and the Hekatonomai, of names of Dionysus.  This is online, but TDS took out some names, which they feel makes it more powerful)
-I've had some dreams where I met up with other students at a certain place and they remembered the same dream
-I heard a lot of fascinating stories about masters
-I got some ego boosts:  during one transmission I started hopping violently and afterwards was told by the head teachers and some other students that I levitated briefly.  I hadn't felt that, but I felt pretty cool thinking it happened.  During another transmission I started 'speaking in tongues' and afterwards Veos said it was an elven language and "was the most accurate spirit translation out of a human he's ever heard."  Now, both of these things make them look good too, but I must admit I felt pretty awesome when these things happened
-It felt really good to feel like I was part of an elite group of high souls who were very close to two masters.  For a while I really felt like my whole life had been leading up to this; it was incredibly fulfilling.  This lasted about a year from the time I first visited.
-I am glad I was introduced to the worship of the Greek pantheon (and the Egyptian one to a far lesser extent).  Though I still primarily worship the Hindu deities, I now feel close to several Greek deities as well.

This last one is long:

-I finally got rid of demon attachments that had bothering me my whole life.  This happened in a roundabout way.  I had seen demons (clairvoyantly, according to Veos) since I was a baby, while awake.  I also used to have terrifying, brain-breaking nightmares with them, maybe a couple times per year.  As a teenager, I was able to focus on God during one of these nightmares, woke up, and never had another one for 12 years, though I'd still see them while awake sometimes.  When I joined the school and started doing the VoA, the nightmares started again, but this time they happened a couple times per WEEK.  This was obviously very disturbing.  I asked my Probationer teacher, and he said to tell it "shooo." I tried to tell him that I needed a better solution, and I think he said he asked Ramose, but he basically said I was imagining things. I got scared and left the school for a few months, but then decided to join the next aspirant class. When I first visited, Veos told me it was a family curse. He said I couldn't get rid of them until I achieved Gnosis, but I would see them less as I did the meditations and purified my energy.  He also said that when I started the probationer class, he and Ramose had been in my room every night the first week clearing out hoards of demons (they say they clear demons from all the new probationers), but they kept coming back (I guess because of the curse).  That kind of made me mad, because if that were the case, why didn't Ramose tell my teacher that when he asked him, rather than make me think it was all in my head?

I was OK with this explanation, though the nightmares continued.  When I started practicing the Triadic Projection several months later, I could not get through the practice without seeing the demons very clearly.  It was terrifying.  I told Ramose and he said that the practice was clearing out negativity (I can't remember the exact words he used), and to keep doing it, but to fight, to "shoot death rays out of my eyes at them."  I tried this, and I suppose it worked a little, but it was still terrifying and kept getting worse it seemed the more I practiced it.  I told him about it again, and this time he said I hadn't had any demons for a long time, but I was just attached to the idea of having them, and my mind was creating the images.  At this point I'm still having the weekly nightmares.  Eventually I stopped doing the practice, because it doesn't seem to be helping, and I dreaded doing it. 

This reached a climax when, a little over a year after I first started visiting, my (now) husband found me in the midst of a demonic possession. He emailed Ramose about it:



As you can see, Ramose's advice was basically that it's mostly psychological, and to just tell me everything is taken care of even if it wasn't.  There were no real solutions or techniques given other that that.  I'll also point out that I never had any kind of possession happen prior to being in TDS.  Another thing of note: the banishing that my husband did was never taught to me nor any other students that I know of, besides maybe the Daskaloi.  My husband happened to have read books on Hermetics before TDS officially started.  I, however, came from a mostly an Eastern meditation background, and had never learned any ritual.  I do think if I had been taught some banishing practices that would have helped me tremendously.  The closest practice to banishing they taught me was the Aegis, which clears yourself but not the room.  Now they supposedly have done a lot of rituals and have evoked demons and can master demons, so I think when they knew I was dealing with demons, especially when they told me I had to fight them myself, they should have given me more tools to do so.

By the time I left the school, I was still having the horrifying nightmares a couple times per week.  Every night I tried to delay sleep because I was scared of what I'd to see.  When I would awaken after a nightmare they would continue to bother me; it would take 20 minutes to get rid of them.  After 3.5 years in the school, the nightmares hadn't gotten any better.

A couple months after I left the school I asked the spiritual mentor I mentioned from Gurunath's organization for help with these nightmares.  He gives me a detailed exorcism to do for a month, and also assisted me spiritually from a distance.  By the end of the month, the nightmares decreased to once per month or so.  A few months later, I told my Sufi Shaykh (I was initiated in December 2014) about the nightmares, and received a simple daily practice to do, which continued to lessen the nightmares to the point they are pretty much nonexistent.  The nightmares happened less and less often and became less and less intense, and now I feel like they are gone, or will be gone very soon.  Not only that, but I don't see them while awake anymore, which I did before I joined the school.  So, in a roundabout way, I did clear the demons I'd been dealing with. 

I don't know what the real story was, but I'm glad to be rid of them now.  I wish I didn't have to go through years of feeling like I wasn't being heard or helped, and I wish I hadn't had to go through years of the demon attachment getting much worse before it got better.  After leaving I got help within 6 months from 2 different guides, both of whom helped tremendously, and neither of whom blamed me nor doubted me at all.

I'm sure some good came out of the increase in demonic activity after joining the school. I think I progressed spiritually by having to deal with such terrifying experiences; It felt like I basically looked at the source of fear in the face regularly for 3.5 years.  Before joining the school, I had been looking for help with these for a long time, and never could find any answers.  I think the fact that it got so intense made my search more productive. I am REALLY glad that this issue has been taken care of for me.

October 17, 2015, 09:17:57 AM
Reply #222

Kemetin

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Kemetin:  I locked that thread, move on.

I made my post before you locked it (going off the times on my post and on your post in the other thread - it certainly wasn't locked when I looked at it right before typing up my reply), so I'm not sure what "move on" is supposed to mean exactly.
I am confused as to why you are confused.  I was informing you that I had locked the thread, and therefore it wasn't a problem any more.  I was informing you because you protested against the thread.  Therefore, you may "move on", as it's not a problem any more.

It's intermittent, but there are times when I mean exactly what I type.  :)

I protested against the thread while it was still open. It would have made sense to tell me to move on if I kept doing so afterwards, but since I didn't, your comment was kinda superfluous. Thus the confusion.
...

Change "move on" to whatever semantics will let you understand that I am just informing you that I had locked the thread in question and it wasn't a problem any more.  Clearly this was a mistake and I will make no further attempts to appease you in the future.

There still seems to be some fundamental miscommunication here - I have no idea where appeasement comes into it. But since I suspect trying to continue that chain of inquiry would just devolve into a semantic back and forth I'll just have to live with never knowing :)


October 17, 2015, 10:07:19 AM
Reply #223

Nectar

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For any people wanting to join TDS, be careful. You must be wary. These people are very smart, and very cunning. Like I said in my initial post, they equal their lies to the lie God tells by creating an illusionary world.
They've always  told me they could multiply their spiritual bodies in hundreds of parts, and that they visit students every night to check up on their progress.  But more often than not, they had no idea about the state of my progress and how the meditations damaged my health, as they always stated to just keep doing practices despite obvious signs of detriment to my health. They never admitted this to me, or the other people that have suffered.
I remember before I joined TDS, I had used the Iching to ask something about the prospects of my spiritual path for the upcoming times. I never knew what it meant, until I had left TDS. This is what it said, note the part about ''groups.''

''Factionalism and the dominance of cliques are especially to be avoided. Even
if people of like mind come forward together, they ought not to form a faction
by holding together for mutual advantage; instead, each man should do is
duty. Theses are four ways in which one can overcome the hidden danger of
a gradual slackening that always lurks in any time of peace. And that is how
one finds the middle way for action.''

''The great danger in any time of peace is a weakening of resolve at the center of things. The true leader uses such periods to tend to all necessary tasks, pleasant and unpleasant, safe and unsafe, so that nothing is neglected. The master of events, like any great artist, finds a use for everything, and gives everyone a role to play.

Be watchful for the rise of factions or cliques; they are often the first sign of approaching decay''

There is truly no need for TDS, you can do it on your own. I made a lot of progress after I left in my life. That type of progress, that is done by yourself..... nothing can equal it. Cliques and factions like TDS are the first sign of decay.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 10:14:48 AM by Nectar »

October 17, 2015, 10:56:34 AM
Reply #224

Explorer

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There is truly no need for TDS, you can do it on your own. I made a lot of progress after I left in my life. That type of progress, that is done by yourself..... nothing can equal it. Cliques and factions like TDS are the first sign of decay.

Hi, did you switch back to Bardon again  ?  :)