Author Topic: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences  (Read 8433 times)

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May 30, 2013, 04:08:51 PM
Reply #15

Koujiryuu

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Aprophis, were you doing correct deep belly breathing while doing this exercise?

Those involuntary movements are a bit on the extreme side. Zen meditation is powerful, but it's usually very calm. The goal is to be in control of yourself, and have focus on one point in space. I have not heard of others having similar experiences and I'm a little concerned- though if you are generating a tremendous amount of focus and energy, sometimes it needs to manifest itself somehow and this can cause the sensations you experienced.
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May 30, 2013, 05:56:24 PM
Reply #16

Impervious

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Day 2
Duration: 25 minutes
Experiences: After about ten minutes, my object started glowing; kind of like Koujiryuu's. But after about five more minutes, my object seemed to do the exact opposite and "fade" into the background. Interestingly, this didn't make it any harder to focus on. I'm not sure if that means I was doing the meditation incorrectly. :P

Otherwise, everything was basically the same as the last meditation. I felt the same kind of tingling sensations, but they seemed more pronounced. I also noticed occasional perspective changes (at one point I felt like I was floating; at another, it seemed like I was rushing toward the object I was focusing on), and a few instances of intense euphoria. I didn't acknowledge these feelings, and eventually they passed.
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May 30, 2013, 06:21:04 PM
Reply #17

Fanna

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Zen meditation day 2:

Tried Two Legged Buddha position (much better, thanks for posting the pics!). For the first five minutes or so, a fog developed over my entire view - maybe an effect from focusing on a small object? Nothing was blurry while this happened and I felt no strain on my eyes. I tried to blink it out anyway and looked away from the object for a bit. That didn't do anything but it eventually cleared on its own and I persisted in my focus. Midway through the meditation I felt slow twitching on my back inner thigh which moved to the front then picked up on my calf. This lasted no more than 30 seconds. Soon after, the room itself seemed to be wavy, swaying. While in this wavy moment, I felt my awareness shift. I can't explain it adequately but it felt expansive as if I was absorbed in this wave, all the while focusing on this knob which seemed to acknowledge the moment so nonchalantly. The throat-tightening was still there throughout the meditation but by the end, as it dissipated, I felt a burst of warmth rush up from my throat to my cheeks and then up my scalp. No sensations in my fingers today.

May 30, 2013, 07:27:10 PM
Reply #18

Shadow_Dragon

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The duration of my exercise was 30 minutes. The first 15 minutes I sat in Padmasana (Full Lotus Pose), but because I usually never exceed 10 minutes in that pose, by minute 15 my ankles were aching, so I just switched to Half Lotus and sat that way for the next 15 minutes. I might try and sit in Seiza, instead, because I associate Padmasana with Yoga, and to me Seiza makes much more sense for someone practicing Qigong. However, Kouji, if you have any clarification on this I would highly appreciate it. Anyway, It was easy to keep concentration on my object for the first 20 minutes, for the most part, with only a few glitches here and there. I've always had problems emptying my mind, but I am absolutely determined to master this technique. I believe the Tao Te Jing says it best, "When the mind is still, all things under Heaven fall into place". This concept made sense to me around the 15-20 minute mark, when for a couple minutes, my mind was almost perfectly still, and my sense of time seemed to vanish a little bit. As I inhaled, I could feel hot water spreading from my Middle Dantien, and through my body. Then I started thinking about those feelings, and at that point the experience ended and my active mind started to race again. The last 10 minutes were hard for me as a result, as I often drifted to thought instead of focusing on my exercise. I'm excited to try this again and get good at it.
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. -Sun Tzu

When the Mind is clear and still, all things under Heaven fall into place. -Lao Tzu

Drink your cup alone, though it taste of blood and tears, and praise God for the gift of taste. -Almustafa

May 30, 2013, 07:36:59 PM
Reply #19

Koujiryuu

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Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
The first 15 minutes I sat in Padmasana (Full Lotus Pose), but because I usually never exceed 10 minutes in that pose, by minute 15 my ankles were aching, so I just switched to Half Lotus and sat that way for the next 15 minutes. I might try and sit in Seiza, instead, because I associate Padmasana with Yoga, and to me Seiza makes much more sense for someone practicing Qigong. However, Kouji, if you have any clarification on this I would highly appreciate it.

Seiza is a traditional Japanese sit. So, it is not really related to Qigong, but more to Aikido.

Along with Zhan Zhuang it will develop tremendous internal power, and power in the legs.

If you want to sit this way, that's fine. However, if you encounter any pain, stop immediately so you don't injure yourself.

Again, the key to correctly practicing this meditation is to be comfortable. If you are not comfortable, the mind won't detach, and you will never experience the essence of the meditation because you will be focused on your physical condition.
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May 30, 2013, 07:42:27 PM
Reply #20

Shadow_Dragon

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I will keep that in mind. I practiced Aikido and Tatsu-Do Karate for some time, and they both emphasized sitting in Seiza when not practicing techniques or Kata, but I never knew why, exactly. I am used to sitting in it so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. I think now that I know it's purpose, I will sit in Seiza instead of Padmasana for the development of Internal Power. Thank you.
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. -Sun Tzu

When the Mind is clear and still, all things under Heaven fall into place. -Lao Tzu

Drink your cup alone, though it taste of blood and tears, and praise God for the gift of taste. -Almustafa

May 30, 2013, 10:26:24 PM
Reply #21

Shinichi

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On Seiza: It is also a traditional posture in Hatha Yoga, although it is variant slightly. It is called "Hero Pose."

Day 2

Meditation while sleepy is not very productive.

I attempted to persist with the method for this week, but I kept slipping back into my default methods of meditation. It wasn't a bad meditation session, but it only lasted about 15 minutes, and I still don't feel it was what it should have been because I was sleepy. It may have been better to just go to bed and do it in the morning with a fresh mind, then try to push a tired mind to relax.




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May 30, 2013, 10:48:18 PM
Reply #22

Koujiryuu

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Yeah, if you meditate while tired you'll just want to go to sleep.

Better to do it in the morning.
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May 31, 2013, 02:04:18 AM
Reply #23

Aprophis

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Aprophis, were you doing correct deep belly breathing while doing this exercise?

Those involuntary movements are a bit on the extreme side. Zen meditation is powerful, but it's usually very calm. The goal is to be in control of yourself, and have focus on one point in space. I have not heard of others having similar experiences and I'm a little concerned- though if you are generating a tremendous amount of focus and energy, sometimes it needs to manifest itself somehow and this can cause the sensations you experienced.

Belly breathing yes, but during meditation my breathing becomes flat, and I would have to force myself to continue breathing deep which distracts my focus, so I do what's natural and continue breathing like my body tells me to.

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that I have that nearly every time I'm meditating, except when I either can't empty my mind or when I'm too tired and nearly fall asleep. It started about 1.5 years ago, when I did sukha purvaka for a month. Since then it happens during meditation, although the reactions were stronger in the beginning, my body was nearly shaking violently back then (never hurt myself though) but now it seems to quiet down. The locking of the muscles around my spine and the pushing out the chest is fairly new, started about a month ago.

May 31, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
Reply #24

Aprophis

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3rd Day:

Weeeeeeeeeeell, this was interesting. First thing to happen was that my face was all tingly. Then the glowing veil started to cover everything, the pulsing from bottom left to top right came.  Afterwards I started shaking again and then I felt energy being pushed into my crown, not just flowing, but being pushed. Today even my head vibrated, meaning it started shaking quickly. This hasn't happened often yet, but it happened before. After 30 minutes when I got up, my body twitched with every step I took. Now I can finally register at the ministry of silly walks. My body still twitches occasionally now and my crown is still tingling a lot.

May 31, 2013, 04:25:26 PM
Reply #25

Eniri

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Tried to remove distractions this time. Drew a dot on a piece of paper and set that against a white wall. Meditated for 30 minutes. Twice the dot briefly turned white, other times it was pitch black and felt like a hole. Stuff went on in my peripheral vision but nothing really profound. After a while the dot consistently had an aura.

My eyes keep refocusing though. I guess it's just a reflex? After a good while of meditating though I did notice I didn't feel like I was looking at all. Sure my eyes were open and I was seeing, but I wasn't "looking" anymore. That was interesting.

May 31, 2013, 04:46:46 PM
Reply #26

Koujiryuu

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Tried to remove distractions this time. Drew a dot on a piece of paper and set that against a white wall. Meditated for 30 minutes. Twice the dot briefly turned white, other times it was pitch black and felt like a hole. Stuff went on in my peripheral vision but nothing really profound. After a while the dot consistently had an aura.

My eyes keep refocusing though. I guess it's just a reflex? After a good while of meditating though I did notice I didn't feel like I was looking at all. Sure my eyes were open and I was seeing, but I wasn't "looking" anymore. That was interesting.

Your eyes refocusing is normal. This basically happens when your mind gets distracted by a thought, or something in your peripheral vision, or even neural discharges. So then, you have to refocus the eyes to maintain your attention. This is natural and not a big deal. As you practice this more (or even move on to using a candle flame) you will find yourself refocusing less and less. For example, once I get situated and get into it, I can maintain my gaze for 5 minutes or so before my concentration gets broken.
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May 31, 2013, 09:41:22 PM
Reply #27

Shinichi

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Day 3

I did 15 minutes this morning, and about 12 tonight. I could have persisted a few more minutes, but the sleepiness thing was hitting me again, and I was losing focus very badly.

For the first time, ever, in about six or seven years--I almost fell asleep while meditating tonight...  :confused:



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"There is no such thing as Impossible, it's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will can be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise.

May 31, 2013, 10:22:09 PM
Reply #28

malignant rice

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Day 2 and 3(as both experiences were nearly exact.)

I sat down and meditated for aproximately 20 minutes while focusing on a small dot I placed on my door. About 5 or 6 minutes in, the area around the dot began to fade into a hazy glow that was similar to looking at sunlight hitting steam, this lasted all
throughout the 2nd day's meditation, however on the 3rd day it only lasted a few minutes before stopping

May 31, 2013, 11:42:05 PM
Reply #29

Impervious

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Day 3
Duration: 15 minutes
Experiences: Unfortunately, I had to wait until close to midnight to meditate today. Because of this, I had the same problems as Shinichi (lack of focus, sleepiness). I will say that the tingling sensations I've been experiencing seem to begin a very tiny bit earlier each time I meditate.

Tomorrow I'll be meditating outside in daylight. Hopefully I'll get a much fuller experience this way.
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