Poll

Is the current implementation of the karma system flawed?

Yes, and changes need to be made.
5 (22.7%)
Yes, but no changes need to be made at this time.
4 (18.2%)
No, the current system is not flawed.
13 (59.1%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: September 25, 2012, 03:55:14 AM

Author Topic: Vote: Is the current implementation of the karma system flawed?  (Read 7622 times)

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September 11, 2012, 03:55:14 AM
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Trowa

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Is the current implementation of the karma system flawed?

This vote is to identify whether action needs to be taken, as opposed to demanding specific fixes.  If the vote shows a majority of users saying that changes need to be made, then further discussion can follow on how it needs to be changed.

I trust that the staff will monitor for multiple-account usage to avoid skewing of the vote one way or another.

Please keep personal attacks out of this thread.

Poll will run for 14 days.

September 11, 2012, 04:29:57 AM
Reply #1

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Thank you Mr T

I would have preferred to see a straight yes or no because having two yes choices against one no dilutes the yes’s.

When I voted it was 2 all. 4 yes and 2 no (66 to 33%) So far only 33% want it?

It may be helpful to read the treads on the subject before voting
We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
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September 11, 2012, 04:38:14 AM
Reply #2

Trowa

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Thank you Mr T

I would have preferred to see a straight yes or no because having two yes choices against one no dilutes the yes’s.

When I voted it was 2 all. 4 yes and 2 no (66 to 33%) So far only 33% want it?

It may be helpful to read the treads on the subject before voting


True, it would be more clear-cut that way if there were only two answers.  However, I feel like "Yes, it's flawed and needs to change" and "No, it is not flawed" doesn't precisely cover the middle spectrum, of those who think it is flawed but don't see a need for any change.  Recognition, but apathy.  If I could have made it 2-2 in a way that made sense, I would have.  Unfortunately, I don't think "No, it's not flawed, but changes need to be made" makes much sense as an answer.  If it's not flawed, then no changes should need to be made.  I hope this makes sense.

September 11, 2012, 11:33:26 AM
Reply #3

Koujiryuu

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No, it's not flawed. It works perfectly well.

If you post meaningful, intelligent and coherent posts you should have no problems with it.
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September 11, 2012, 03:11:58 PM
Reply #4

kobok

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I like the three options as Trowa created.  It was insightful to do it that way.  In general, recognition of the existence of a flaw is not equivalent to advocating for a change.  Flaws often exist in the best choices available, and when that happens, we go with the best choice anyway.

(Although personally, while I think there are better karma systems that could be conceived of, I don't think the current karma system fits my definition of "flawed".)
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September 11, 2012, 05:27:36 PM
Reply #5

Steve

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I have posted in the past my views on karma and how I'd like to see it changed. Even if the system isn't changed to what I want it to be, and eventhough the system is working for the majority of people, I do still see room for positive changes to it in order to reduce some of the negative things we've seen of it.

So far we've seen several people become paranoid and/or indignant over a negative karma count. Some have complained, whether rightfully or not I don't know, about people trolling their post counts by simply smiting them every chance they got. Some have publicly admitted that they have done exactly that to specific people, whether as a joke or not. There was even a point where it seemed to me (and my perceptions could be wrong) that three or so people had perceived that someone else might be constantly smiting them, and so they picked some people that they thought it was and started constantly smiting those people in "revenge" while group-applauding themselves back up.

I know that there are good things that have come with the karma system, but there has also been some bad blood because of it, so while I'm not suggesting that any specific person (ie, kobok) "put down everything else that they're doing in their life and get to work on it as a high priority item" or anything like that, I do think that the system could be improved somehow. How, with the criteria that kobok has set out in the other thread, I don't know, but as Trowa mentioned in the opening post, that topic could be discussed later if more people feel that way.

~Steve

PS. [old man voice] back in MY day, we just yelled at each other over a tall glass of bleaer. if i had something to say to darkduck, or koujiryuu, or talyn, or anyone else, I just yelled at their faces! And they would yell what they felt back at mine. None of this going behind the back, nor this being all paranoid about who's doing what back there. it's that yelling at each other like that that builds a good man, a strong man, a Real Man *nods sagely to myself, then takes a swig of the bleaer* without that, we've just got a bunch of youngun's who're afraid of coming out of their shells and being themselves because they're afraid that people won't like them for who they are, instead of coming out of their shells and KNOWING that people won't like them for who they are! it's all about knowing that nobody really likes you. that's what builds the apathy to just be yourself.

PPS. That rant was just a joke ^_^
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 05:36:17 PM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

September 12, 2012, 01:32:44 AM
Reply #6

Akenu

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PS. [old man voice] back in MY day, we just yelled at each other over a tall glass of bleaer. if i had something to say to darkduck, or koujiryuu, or talyn, or anyone else, I just yelled at their faces! And they would yell what they felt back at mine. None of this going behind the back, nor this being all paranoid about who's doing what back there. it's that yelling at each other like that that builds a good man, a strong man, a Real Man *nods sagely to myself, then takes a swig of the bleaer* without that, we've just got a bunch of youngun's who're afraid of coming out of their shells and being themselves because they're afraid that people won't like them for who they are, instead of coming out of their shells and KNOWING that people won't like them for who they are! it's all about knowing that nobody really likes you. that's what builds the apathy to just be yourself.

PPS. That rant was just a joke ^_^

Actually, that rant was epic :D

September 15, 2012, 12:15:22 PM
Reply #7

Trowa

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Ten days to go, and there has not been any activity here for a little bit.  The vote has held steady as it is for a couple days now.

September 15, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
Reply #8

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Always account for the last second rush or the response

Yes 7
No 8

As at this posts time stamp
We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

September 15, 2012, 06:44:19 PM
Reply #9

Silver_Archer

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You're consistently reading this vote wrong. The current numbers stand at 5 people who think changes need to be made and 11 people who think they don't.
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September 16, 2012, 05:30:06 AM
Reply #10

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SA! Please read the question! To save moving your eyes:

Is the current implementation of the karma system flawed?

This is a yes or no question. Why not start your own developments by finding thing to agree on rather than finding things to disagree on and you may just find that you gain that next step of understanding and not leave your selves open to people like me who enjoy taking the P*I*S*S!


We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

September 16, 2012, 06:06:50 AM
Reply #11

Silver_Archer

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That is not the question. If it was, that would have been the vote question used and the options would have been 'yes' or 'no'. The point of this vote is to find out if the majority of the user base (or, at the very least those who vote here), feel the system needs to be changed at this time, or not. Options 2 and 3 are merely adding an additional nuance to this, while option 1 presupposes that the need for change it, if felt, is because the system is flawed. Those people who do not think it is flawed but want it changed anyway can be summarily ignored.

The crux of the matter is implementation, not principle, because principle does not supply a SimpleMachines Forum module out of thin air. A certain module has been implemented due to its availability, and the question is whether this implementation is good enough for the time being, or not. Understanding this requires only basic reading comprehension and thus it should not have to be explained, most certainly not to someone who speaks English as their first language.   
<Forg> Everything is adjustable when you have a saw.

September 16, 2012, 07:44:59 AM
Reply #12

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FFS SA Get a grip, you are even making me sound sane! Do you really think you are a jedi - this is not the question you are reading? The question is: Is the current implementation of the karma system flawed? I thought I was posting on a metaphysics site not a jnr Jedi site. 

And yes, and so far, the one put forward (which meets more of the requested needs) as met with negativity although the negativity is coming from the ones who's needs it meets. So it as nothing to do with  "because principle does not supply a SimpleMachines Forum module out of thin air" or 'meets the needs', as it? And whats more this modual as been around as a working modual for about 3 years!

So what is it all about?
We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

September 16, 2012, 09:28:55 AM
Reply #13

Steve

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The actual question is whether the current karma system is flawed or not, with the reason for the question being to determine if a change needs to be made or not. That the "Yes" answer was split into two different answers to further clarify a second question (that was quite strongly implied in the opening post, but not explicitly stated as a question) does not change that. Reading the vote as "A+B vs C" is just as fine as reading it as "A vs B+C", depending on what information you're trying to get out of the question, but should most properly be read as "A vs B vs C" as all three options are mutually exclusive to one another since they are implementations of AND clauses between two variables (ie, A is Y+Y, B is Y+N, and C is N+N).

This isn't a "simple" yes or no question because there are actually two questions being asked: "is there a problem with the system", and "does it need to be changed". If the majority of people vote that no changes need to be made now, that would NOT contradict the possibility of the majority of people also thinking the karma system is currently flawed, hence why the extra option was added.

As of the time that I am writing, more than 50% of the vote has gone to C "No, the system is not flawed" with the added assumption of "and no changes need to be made". The votes for B both go towards the idea that the system is flawed AND towards that idea that things are fine as they are now. The votes that have gone to A believe the system to be flawed AND that it needs to be changed. There was no option for "The system is not flawed but does need to be changed" to account for a very unlikely vote.

As has been stated though, the poll is not over and people are still free to vote as they feel :) We will deal with the results when they are finalized.

~Steve
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 09:37:16 AM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

September 19, 2012, 03:47:51 AM
Reply #14

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Looks like we are stuck at 10:7, Perhapse people are just not interested enough to vote.

Maybe an indictment of it's need?
We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂