Author Topic: What is Jing?  (Read 52891 times)

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May 27, 2013, 10:44:37 PM
Reply #45

Koujiryuu

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Um, there are actually lots of sexual practices for women to do.

Unless you think the ancient Taoist dudes just had sex with the other Taoist dudes and left the women do, you know, non-sex things.

^^ I'm not going to tolerate your flippant attitude, lack of respect, or condescending demeanor. I am not as stupid as you think I am.

I've made my point. I would urge anyone else reading to heed my warnings.

This is far enough off the "What is Jing" subject anyway. I will be happy to discuss and answer any more questions about Jing, internal force in Taijiquan, and so on. However, I'd like no more discussion of Daoist sexual practices, unless a separate thread is made (which I won't reply to).

EDIT: I'm not even sure such a thread should be made, or if any discussion of these methods should take place on Veritas, because children visit this site. There are (obviously from Searching's experience) MANY other places to discuss these things that are more appropriate. I'll check with kobok and see what he thinks.

2nd EDIT:

Quote
And I don't see any compelling reason to lift weight when pushups can build muscle just as well.


My philosophy is this: If you're going to do something, do it right. If you're not going to do it right, don't do it at all.

Plenty of people out there are teaching garbage and passing it off as "sexual qigong". Plenty of people teaching ineffective or incomplete techniques out there. It ain't right, so don't do it. I'm fine with that.


But there ARE legitimate lineages which include practices of sexual qigong out there. Rare as they are and as impossible as it may be to find an authentic teacher in your area, that does not discount them as a practice. And that there may be a range of either outright frauds or honest but misguided teachers out there also does not discount the practice.

You may have reasons for not practicing them, and not teaching them, but that does not discount the practice.

You have a NASTY habit of editing your posts after someone has already replied to them, omitting certain sections they've already replied to, and adding more. Please, for fucks sake, STOP.  :teethy:

Regardless, I bolded your quote. This is the essence of what I'm saying and was articulated gracefully.

I don't do these methods because I don't want to damage my internal organs, disperse my Jing or Shen, and so on. The main reason: I don't know any authentic teachers.

I never said the practices themselves don't work, or that they don't have any intrinsic value, I just said that the danger is too great to be practicing them without competent instruction. Which, even if I could find, I probably wouldn't partake in. I'm incredibly private about sex.

Again, if anyone wants to discuss this further, make another thread, but PLEASE keep the actual methods out of it.

Thank you.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 11:06:14 PM by Koujiryuu »
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June 28, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Reply #46

mystic

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youza
to reply or not...

I think I will after I read everything.

Though a brief teaser - lots of things I've seen in the noble paths. One of which (at higher levels) is manipulation of jing and lin kong jing (which is a marvelous, yet complicated thing even after merging yin and yang).

Jing can be restored.

There's a few missing pieces of the puzzle from jing (meaning essence) and jing (application). The representative schools of thought go into a large emphasis on methods of cultivation but not a direct x -> y fashion. I think that is a big issue in terms of cultivation on both sides.

Expect something soonish (typing on a surface and I can't type as much as I really need to).

And yes, Chia is bad news. Don't quote him. In every circle of nei dan (yang shen, lsd, tong ling, etc) the simple story has been this. He has not been adequately trained to do nei gong which builds yang, yin, jing and chi (and if you're doing yang shen, well shen as well). He has been essentially cast out of most circles in Chinese. Not a good quote.

And yes, there are women practices that end with cutting the dragon's head (ending the menstrual cycle) so they can actually continue cultivation. Just thought that should be tossed out there and there are loads of women practitioners (I know at least 5 that have done this successfully).

But I gotta catch up on PMs (I'll make a massive edit of this post to explain a few things). But this is only from the perspective of nei gong honestly and bringing out the yin yang gong. So it won't be as scholastic.

Cheers

September 16, 2013, 03:29:50 PM
Reply #47

mystic

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One thing I warned when I posted about jing is this discussion will not be a scholastic one. I take a similar stance that my teachers take.

When considering the nine (yes nine) treasures of Chinese Philosophy, of chi, jing, and shen, one realizes that the core focus of any foundation is an understanding of these concepts.

Why?

What does knowledge of these concepts do for you?

On a personal level, the knowledge helped me describe phenomenon that is occurring. It gives a description to the disparate, yet interconnected energy that lies within our body. It also helps open discussions about these concepts as well, which ideally should spurn practice.

But something that I've noticed throughout the time I have been posting again is a constant reference to the concepts.

The concepts are important, if not for a mere discussion at a cocktail party or in a scholastic light. But we aren't necessarily here to discuss things scholastically. We are here to learn, and ultimately here to practice.

Knowledge of Jing only helps when describing phenomenon. But it also helps create another mental block. To say this logical phrase of if this, then that.

Don't fall for such a mental trapping!

Just be and just practice.

If you eliminate the mental obstructions (e.g. I want to open my third eye, feel my jing, project jing, allow shen to travel) and actually practice, no matter what noble path you undertake, you see progress

That's the most important part of this. Practice.

So get out and stand in zz. Or if you want, go to the gym. Go out and perform szg (if you will), or live. You will find that the ingredients collect and form the dan tian. But you still have to practice to actually enter the dan tian.

In that regard, who cares about jing?

November 27, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
Reply #48

crab

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Hi Koujiryuu,

I'm a newbie to this forum. I am interested in methods for restoring lost jing (after having depleted it). Have a query: In the thread "my own jing practice", you mention "Zhan Zhuang. Detailed here in exercise 5." as one of the ways to develop jing (a portion of your post is quoted below for clarity). When attempting to access this link (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,8658.0.html), it gives me the following error: "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you." Not sure why. Is there something I need to do to get access?

Thanks,
Crab


> There are many different ways of developing Jing, including-
>
> * Meditation on the Lower Dantien. If you need a method, look here at my article
> and skip to section 3. This is basically Zen meditation with the eyes closed with the focal point being the lower Dantien.
> * Zhan Zhuang. Detailed here in exercise 5.
> * Any moving Qigong set you already do (Lifting the Sky, Pushing Water, Brain and Marrow Washing Classic, etc) though the results will be far less than Zhan Zhuang
> * Microcosmic orbit - I personally believe you cannot get very far without this one (as I've made clear). Again, find the exercise in "Beginning Daoist Qigong"
> * Eat leafy vegetables like spinach, lettuce, etc and eat nuts... I've heard from various sources that these foods are good for Qi
> * Try not to do any exercises or "techniques" that expend Qi rapidly (such as Qi balls, Qi "blasts" or forcing Qi out of the palms, channeling Qi into others, etc)- conservation is essential


November 29, 2013, 01:43:46 PM
Reply #49

Koujiryuu

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It works fine for me but I'll contact kobok and ask why it might not be working for others.

Alternatively, you can see the same thing here, but with video instruction that should make performing the exercises easier: http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,22029.0.html

Hope this helps.
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December 21, 2013, 04:09:19 AM
Reply #50

aintshine

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Thanks a lot guy , I didn't know about Jing , and I was interested . Thanks for information .

February 15, 2016, 04:28:35 AM
Reply #51

mystic

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There have been a lot of interesting discussion concerning jing in another thread. I think it is a good idea to get some conceptualization of jing for several different reasons. One of which is the misconceptions of jing and the other is to lightly expound on the karmic nature of jing and how it can impact practice. It will be aligned with the intent that the result is to deepen oneís practice of meditation and creation of the LDT and nothing else. Therefore, the assumption(s) are the following:

1. The lower dan tian is a process created by the mingling of original ingredients
2. The lower dan tian is not a physical location in the body but it is expressed physically once the ingredients have formed and the lower dan tian begins to ďbubbleĒ
3. This is not a discussion of medical beliefs or the predominant qi gong belief. I cannot state that enough because there is a large distinction between the medical versus nei gong contexts. Much of the knowledge espoused on Veritas is the medical and qi gong method and when applied to the practical or nei gong, there are a lot of gaps and areas of confusion. For more information, thereís a myriad of different texts about it and if youíre really interested, please refer to any Daoist translation by Fabrizio Pregadio or Livia Kohn. 

To begin with, at its simplest, in this context, Iíll refer to jing (essence) as the original water. The original water, if anyone were to find a western equivalent,Iíll refer to the biological processes of life The misconception is most certainly predicated on the belief that this life is the only life, there was no previous life and therefore the purpose is prolonging health (or the predominant Chinese medical model). The problem is from a practical perspective, according to several different long men practitioners and general practitioners of the noble paths, jing itself expressed in several different ways:

a. original essence (yuanjing)
b. pre celestial essence (xiantian jing)
c. true essence (zhenjing)
d. post celestial essence (or sexual essence - houtian jing / jiaogan jing)

Practitioners are reminded of the Bai Yuchan who makes a bold distinction in terms of practice:

Quote
is not the essence of intercourse: it is the saliva in the mouth of the Jade Sovereign

This is further indicated by Wu Shouyang:

Quote
Why is the Original Essence called pre-celestial? The undivided heaven is devoid of image and form. In the Great Ultimate, quiescent and pure, there is something like a movement. The numinous opening, mainspring of immortality, lies in what has nothing prior to itself

When I refer to jing, I refer to pre-celestial jing and not post celestial jing. In addition, I refer to life function including the secretion of the internal organs, hormones, and the regulation of fire and water within the body.  Letís be blunt for a moment. You lose jing all the time. You lose jing when you wake up, when you shower, when you eat, when you poop, when you get dressed, when you type and so on and so on and so on. Jing is lost all of the time! To make a very bold statement, to connect things from a Freudian perspective, jing is life. Youíre going to lose jing by living life.  It is the mother elixir and when any jing is damaged, aging and weakening results. We age, itís a natural part of life!

note
Hereís where there is a moment of karma in the philosophy of jing. Since jing is pre-celestial, actions (including previous actions and current actions) are predicated by jing. An individualís health, and even where an individual is born are an expression of the dynamism of jing and karma. To argue jing isnít karmic, one needs to look no further and consider your current family tree. That isnít to say that things canít change and karma cannot be manipulated (because it can), but it is to underscore the impact karma and jing have together. For those who portend to separate it on the notion that karma canít be proven scientifically, why are you reading this discussion? Jing, like the other three major treasures cannot be truly expressed scientifically.

These concepts donít begin to mesh for several different reasons. Of note, it is due to misinformation concerning jing. There are multiple erroneous beliefs concerning jing. Once it is gone, you canít get it back. That is actually false and it is a belief that has been spread in America for a very long time resulting in silly methods all to preserve jing (semen retention and the like). But at its core, semen retention doesnít rebuild jing. If jing refers to life, it is discord (or imbalance in life) that causes jing to dry and damage. Whatís the way to return jing back?

There are two ways actually: directly and indirectly. The two are synonymous to each other. The indirect methods of rebuilding jing impacts the direct methods. Indirectly, a good diet, proper weight lifting (canít stress weight lifting enough), adequate sleep, cutting down on the sex, and relaxation of the entire being indirectly restore jing because it returns the vessel of the body to itís origin. A state of homeostatic balance (note I refer to homeostatic as not just encompassing the physical body but also the spiritual and mental framework).

Directly, to build jing, true meditation is key. For a lack of better terming, I will refer to meditation as the point of sustained single minded focus on an internal or external object. In order to achieve that single minded focus, your mind, body and spirit has to be ready. The preparation starts at healing the body, absolutely. But it also continues with the indirect methods of jing conservation.

From a Daoist perspective, meditation begins, and ends with the single minded focus on the lower dan tian. This is where the three day rule becomes important and where a lot more misinformation comes into play. At its heart, jing, qi and shen are used to create the lower dan tian (this is literally laying the foundation), but the process involves replenishing, harmonizing, coagulating, transforming all three treasures. Keep in mind that during the single minded focus on the lower dan tian, a natural outgrowth of this process is a shift of conscious toward the area of concentration. When you meditate and shift your consciousness after sex (for instance), the shen is imbalanced and false fire is rampant. Itís necessary that a cooling period needs to happen and it is usually 3 days to be safe. It has very little to do with Chinese people denigrating sex, alcohol or any of the other ďpleasuresĒ of the senses. Itís so you donít break the lower dan tian.

To really make this context more coherent, imagine the process in this way. You are living in a 2 story house (kitchen is downstairs your room is upstairs). You need to walk downstairs to get some water from the kitchen. You walk downstairs, turn on the faucet, and drink water. You go back upstairs. The sublime nature of the example is one perspective of the shift in conscious when true meditation occurs. The senses and the very nature of ĎIí shift toward the object of focus. To maintain the focus, the body, mind, and spirit must be harmony.

From this perspective, true meditation is important because it directly rebuilds jing. Zhang Boduan stated:

Quote
As regards spirit, there is an original spirit, and as regards breath, thereís an original breath. Therefore, as regards essence, how could there not be an original essenceÖwhen the original spirit appears, the original breath is generated and when original breath is generated, the original essence is born

The above also reinforces Wu Shouyangís previous quote. The formless heaven, or our true nature, is reached through true meditation. Meditation allows for a modest return of jing because it takes us back to our true nature or the pre-celestial state!  The impact of this is special as indicated by Zhang Boduan:

Quote
Swallowing saliva and ingesting breath are human actions;
only when you have the medicine (development of lower dan tian) can you form and transform
If in the tripod there is no true seed,
it is like using water and fire to boil an empty pot

Therefore, the foundation step as it were is to strengthen, restore, and rebuild the three treasures. But jing is vital to the discussion. In addition, so is the misinformation expressly related to jing. Jing is a lot of things and it is important in several different contexts. Do not take the belief that jing is only lost through sex. Losing sex through jing is one of the largest losses of jing but so is drinking, lack of sleep and a myriad of different processes. It is taking your body, mind and spirit out of balance. When your body is out of balance it is important to get the body back into balance.

This is a very brief and concise discussion of jing from the perspective of the nei gong. Thereís a lot that isnít covered that I did cover previously in this thread. But keep in mind, moderation is key. So is not attaching to things. Those aspects do impact practice and can decrease jing.