Author Topic: What is Jing?  (Read 50041 times)

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February 06, 2013, 07:23:11 PM
Reply #15

Mind_Bender

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I do have an instructor who was a Priest of Mao Shan and Zheng Yi Sects of Daoism and a Traditional Chinese Medicine Doctor for about 20 years. He gave up the esoteric aspects for personal reasons and currently only teaches Chaoyi Fanhuan Qigong (CFQ), Jiang Riang Qioa's Classical Baguazhang and Yang Style Taijiquan. He disagrees with many of the practices of his old lineage as he believes they (esoteric practices in general) lead to bad karma and qi deviation (I'm still trying to come to terms with this, but can see some of his points). I have and still do learn a lot from books (mainly Sanskrit Mantra and Western Magic and Paganism), but I also keep in touch with my Sifu if anything goes wrong and any questions I have on the practices. He is very knowledgeable and a good man who prefers me only to practice Bagua on a physical level and CFQ for energy work and live a mundane life, but being a Sifu and me being an eager student he understands and always tells me to "dance your dance" and fully explains the benefits, downfalls and reasons why such practices were good for the time and culture and why they may not be so good any more. Although he believes certain internal practices lead to heat and burning of life force, he still imparts the knowledge and skill to me, with an emphasis on grounding after my esoteric and gong fu practice to release any blockages or deviations.

I admit I know little of the spiritual and esoteric reasons for Jing, Qi and Shen as they are not emphasized in CFQ (at least not at my beginning level) but I am progressing into those areas for martial purposes (Fa Jing, Small Golden Bell, etc). I understand to really have a good and healthy grasp on Qigong one must learn under a qualified master and practice constantly with proper attention to detail always striving for perfection of technique and theory thus leading to perfection of self through proper understanding and experience. There is also the idea of knowledge and wisdom being transfered from Sifu to student by either osmosis or actual conscious transmission through ritual or meditation or what not.

I am a big supporter of learning under a master, but some times we just don't have the means of finding one, that is why I mentioned "the teacher will come when the student is ready." It happened for me when I was just a book worm and now my knowledge and skill is tenfold.

"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

February 06, 2013, 07:28:29 PM
Reply #16

Koujiryuu

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Now, mind you the majority of what I do is very basic and focuses on the Microcosmic Orbit and Void meditation as well as standing Qigong. I'm still of the opinion that you can make some progress without a master, and that it's better to practice spiritual development at all as opposed to not practicing because you can't find a teacher. Still, a teacher is preferable.

My question, Mind_Bender, is if you can possibly elaborate more on what your Sifu believes and why- concerning practice in the modern day. This is something I struggle with as well, and have trouble coming to terms with, and is a part of my current inactivity and lack of practicing (reconciling ancient spiritual practices vs the modern day technological lifestyle). Thanks.
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February 07, 2013, 02:57:41 AM
Reply #17

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When it comes to practices such as Zhan Zhuang and Da Cheng Chuan his reasons for them being bad are because the practice develops heat int he body, too much Wind interacting with the already Fiery kidney energy, creating a heat storm of sorts in the body. Fa Jing (which Bagua develops through what is called Whipping Spine- which is the Microcosmic Orbit in action), Iron Body, walking the Circle, simply, any martial art or athletic endeavor, develops intense internal energy which burns life force faster than normal if not properly cooled down by grounding. This heat is what develops internal power for striking, taking hits (Iron Body), and drive to succeed in sport and life, which is why it is important for the martial artist and athlete, but it also leads to aggressive behavior and may even lead to drinking and other problems outside of training. The heat raised during training is so intense on the kidneys that when the athlete is not training they need to supplement that heat with something else, hence alcohol consumption and sometimes heavier sexual appetites (passion, desire, sex, determination, fighting spirit are all Fire energies). You can see this in many stories of old school Okinawan Karate and Gong Fu Masters drinking after training or on their days off and hitting the Red Light District (it is customary in certain Japanese Dojos for high ranked students to drink a bottle of sake with their Sensei if they have been on their own journey and wish to catch up. Sharing sake between the Sensei and adept students is also part of what is called a Kamiza ceremony, which is an induction into the Sensei's Kai, or martial Family). It is said that the development of heat is good for sickness and overall health (just look at Zhan Zhuang, Bikram Yoga, Tummo Meditation and Jing, Qi and Shen cultivation) but too much can be deadly as previously discussed.

When it comes to practices such as Kundalini Yoga and the Microcosmic Orbit this is raising energy in the body as well, which is heat, but the focus of the problem here is no longer on heat but visualization. When we visualize we may delude ourselves more. Every occult tradition, Qigong method, meditative Yoga practice, New Age and holistic energy work I have practiced and read about all emphasize visualization- let us not forget hypnosis and NLP. Unless you are blind, do you really need to visualize? Seriously think about that.

We have the internet, nature, the day and night time sky, people with their own sense of style, and the list never ends; we are constantly bombarded by visual cues, even when we close our eyes! We survive by sight, so why is visualization so important? (Rhetorical question). The problem with visualization is that it can cause psychoses after a while as we are teaching our minds to see things that are in our heads and not actually part of the physical world (look at Ceremonial, especially summoning, magic and Psionic constructs- it's based a lot upon what you can clairvoyantly see) and after a while these mind pictures may start to take control leading to unhealthy behaviors like God-complex or prophetic delusions. This is not say clairvoyants or prophets are delusional (my opinion), but we should not seek the power if it is not already ours to begin with (I just punched myself in the face with that last sentence regarding our previous conversation!).

The reason why practices such as Kundalini were, and still are, important in India is because they are an agricultural people, meaning they are naturally grounded. They are knee deep in the earth, often literally, so the raising of Kundalini and moving Shakti throughout the body helps them balance Prana by ascending it up the spine, it is the same for the development of Jing, Qi and Shen in Daoist Alchemy and Shaolin Qi Gong. They are an agricultural people as well, hence the importance of raising energy from the Lower Dan Ti'en up and throughout the body, but in our modern culture as stated in the previous section, we are so much in our heads with all the talking over the phone, watching movies, pretty people gazing, reading and writing on this forum and such practices we need to ground the energy to be more balanced. We personally live in a society of desk jobs, visual and auditory entertainment, dealing with other people and their problems, questions and opinions (customer service) we often forget just to feel the body. Not listen to it, not visualizing healing white, green or gold light, but feeling the body. Emptying the mind, but not by concentrating on quieting thought (as thought is a mental head process) but feeling the breath and feelings in, on and around the body.

Magic and esoteric practices are very bad in Sifu's view because he believes it leads to negative karma and dealing with powers that are not ours to deal with in the first place. As he told me several times when I was questioning him about magic, the Gods have their world with their own lives to lead so we should stop bothering them. That is not to say an avatar won't come down here and there and light the way for us, but we should leave them be otherwise. It is in our karma to one day become Gods and Goddesses as they were once humans and will be again, and the Cycle continues. Once again, sometimes Deity calls to us and we should not ignore their call (my opinion) but seeking after their graces through ritual and especially through command just isn't good. They do answer and bless us with their presence and powers but it often comes with a price, such as opening other doors as well... when a door to the Celestial realms is open a door to the Lower realms open as well. Polarity, cause and effect, get used to it.

More on the Microcosmic Orbit, Chakras, Tummo and meditation. As mentioned prior raising heat and visualization can create mental, energetic and physical sickness, but if we do choose to stick to these practices we should remember to ground after words and stay away from visualization, not just because it is too much in the head but because our practices become easier. You can visualize the Microcosmic Orbit or balancing of the Chakras with all the colors, Yantras and what not, but it is useless until you actually feel the energy and its effects on your daily life. If they make you feel sick, depleted or lethargic, than stop. If you are vibrant and full of positive energy than continue. Sometimes we need to go through sickness, fatigue and emotional upsets on the spiritual journey, but this should be a caveat written at the beginning of the book if you do not have a teacher and if you do have a teacher, they should know how to remedy it or how long you need to go through it before progressing.

The raising of heat was, and is, important in Eastern culture because of geography and whether... we're talking about monks that live in ancient temples and only where robes, so the acquisition of internal heat is very important to them, but for many of us in the modern society we have jackets, insulated houses, heaters and partners, so the practice of raising heat really isn't so important, unless of course we plan on moving to Alaska or keeping dying traditions alive.

This is where delusion also comes in. You may be able to see red light coming out of your hands but if their is no heat the visualization is useless. You may see yourself covered in beautiful swirling lights and claim you have achieved the Rainbow Body but others simply view you as any mundane, than you are delusional.

I forgot to mention gathering. Briefly, when we gather Qi we are also building heat and even creating blockages and deviations within and around the body. External energy is not our own so it takes more effort to make it compatible with out energy signatures. Another reason why grounding is so important.

Sifu warns against magic the most as it opens negative spiritual doorways and leads to desire and attachment that turns into more karmic baggage and the attachment of parasitic and demonic entities to our auras and even to our loved ones. This is why I stopped practicing magic for several months after starting CFQ... it felt like I was literally being grabbed when I was releasing my blockages. It was scary... than I stopped CFQ until recently, but that's off topic.

By grounding we are pulling all of our previous karma (thoughts, actions and what not) we have not previously dealt with and send it down through our bodies into mother Earth. We clear our meridians, cool down our bodies, calm our minds, release blockages and heal deviations by this process.

I wrote a lot and probably missed even more, but I hope this answers you questions.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

February 08, 2013, 05:03:07 AM
Reply #18

mystic

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Before I really give a full comment (according to my perspective and the perspectives of some other daoist paths)
What do you mean by grounding? What is your operational definition of grounding?

February 08, 2013, 01:27:09 PM
Reply #19

Mind_Bender

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By grounding I mean, (well, my Sifu) means to send all of your energy into the ground. Like I wrote, "By grounding we are pulling all of our previous karma (thoughts, actions and what not) we have not previously dealt with and send it down through our bodies into mother Earth. We clear our meridians, cool down our bodies, calm our minds, release blockages and heal deviations by this process."

Grounding (in this perspective) is emptying the body of stagnant Qi and karma. When we drop our Yin energy into the ground we automatically get filled with Yang energy, but this is not visualized nor stressed, it is just part of the grounding process in CFQ.

For example, when performing the first sequence of movements we let our hands hang loosely in front of the Lower Dan Ti'en (palms down) as if letting water drip off the wrists and fingers and pull the arms to our sides, arms close to the body, and extend the fingers forward opening the palm meridians and push down, a soft version of Fa Jing to release the energy downwards, through our legs, out our feet into the earth. Feeling, relaxing and getting in touch with the body is also what is meant by grounding in this particular system, as mentioned in the previous article there are no visualizations, intentions or gathering processes, just doing the movements in an empty mind and letting them do the work for us.
I understand this may be controversial.

Note: This is not a Daoist system by any means, it is closer to a Buddhist style as Master Yap is a Buddhist, but it has no religious connotations (honestly I hardly know the differnce between the two stykes of Qigong). Sifu learned it after his Daoist explorations.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

February 10, 2013, 05:56:15 AM
Reply #20

mystic

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wait, so your master feels that karmas are such that they can be pushed into the ground and balanced? In spite of karma underlying the very fabric of reality and affecting most (if not all interactions) we do have with one another? That can be pushed aside?

Quote
Grounding (in this perspective) is emptying the body of stagnant Qi and karma.
...
Quote
When we drop our Yin energy into the ground we automatically get filled with Yang energy, but this is not visualized nor stressed, it is just part of the grounding process in CFQ.

The relationship isn't necessarily as simplistic as described here. Secondly, what makes you sure that
1. you are emptying karma
2. you are getting filled with yang qi?

For point one, doesn't that seem a lot like a mental barrier? such that it is an unrealistic representation of reality in and of itself?

In reference to point two, wouldn't that be bad according to your tradition? As indicated by:

Quote
When it comes to practices such as Zhan Zhuang and Da Cheng Chuan his reasons for them being bad are because the practice develops heat int he body, too much Wind interacting with the already Fiery kidney energy, creating a heat storm of sorts in the body. Fa Jing (which Bagua develops through what is called Whipping Spine- which is the Microcosmic Orbit in action), Iron Body, walking the Circle, simply, any martial art or athletic endeavor, develops intense internal energy which burns life force faster than normal if not properly cooled down by grounding. This heat is what develops internal power for striking, taking hits (Iron Body), and drive to succeed in sport and life, which is why it is important for the martial artist and athlete, but it also leads to aggressive behavior and may even lead to drinking and other problems outside of training. The heat raised during training is so intense on the kidneys that when the athlete is not training they need to supplement that heat with something else, hence alcohol consumption and sometimes heavier sexual appetites (passion, desire, sex, determination, fighting spirit are all Fire energies).

That's quite the contradiction when you think about it...

Quote
This is not a Daoist system by any means, it is closer to a Buddhist style as Master Yap is a Buddhist, but it has no religious connotations (honestly I hardly know the differnce between the two stykes of Qigong). Sifu learned it after his Daoist explorations.

I don't think it is daoist or buddhist in nature. That sounds like no buddhist training I have ever heard of. Now that isn't to say there is a buddhist method I don't know, nor a daoist method I know intimately, but based on general flow of both traditions, they don't sound like either.

February 10, 2013, 01:54:36 PM
Reply #21

Mind_Bender

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First of all, I have no idea if this style really clears karma, I just know it helps me when I practice and second, I do not exactly believe in everything he tells me, I just know he has a good grasp on internal and external skill because of what he has showed me how to perform it through hands on application, and he is my first internal arts instructor.

According to the practice, It is not that grounding is what clears the karma but the pulling in all of our past karma into the body, feeling it in the body and releasing the stagnant energy into the ground.. basically, you are not grounding the karma just the energetic left overs, your body releases the karma by whatever means necessary, whether it is twitching, convulsing, laughing, farting, screaming, or whatever your body feels is proper for the release of stagnant energy and karma at least from my understanding.

When it comes to grounding the Yin Qi and being filled with Yang Qi it seems to be an automatic practice of any grounding method because you empty what is in your body and get filled because of the sphere that surrounds your body. Think of an air current blowing into water- the air presses into the water, causing the water to expand around the air current, the deeper the air goes into the water the bigger the sphere of water gets around the current, or the idea of a meteor striking the earth- but slower.

When heat is raised in the body it creates heat, when you ground you cool the body, I don't see the contradiction. Is it because he taught those methods to me yet warns against them?

I am unsure if the style really is 'Buddhist' I just know Master Yap is a Buddhist.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

February 15, 2013, 05:55:52 AM
Reply #22

mystic

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First of all, I have no idea if this style really clears karma,

it doesn't. Not a single practice alone can clear all internal and external karmas past and present.

Quote
second, I do not exactly believe in everything he tells me, I just know he has a good grasp on internal and external skill because of what he has showed me how to perform it through hands on application, and he is my first internal arts instructor.

I'm kind of lost here. You don't believe him, but acknowledge he may have a good grasp of things internal and external? So how can he have both? Is this one of those multiple choice things or...

Quote
According to the practice, It is not that grounding is what clears the karma but the pulling in all of our past karma into the body, feeling it in the body and releasing the stagnant energy into the ground.. basically, you are not grounding the karma just the energetic left overs, your body releases the karma by whatever means necessary, whether it is twitching, convulsing, laughing, farting, screaming, or whatever your body feels is proper for the release of stagnant energy and karma at least from my understanding.

But what is to say that is doing anything but balancing kidney yin and yang? In some respects it seems you are using karma to denote aspects of body and mind (experiences) that one hold back. And while that can contribute to karmic stock, it doesn't dissolve all burdens and karmas of the past. In addition, it isn't the grounding that seems to have the effect. But the letting go, relaxation, and detachment that aides the body in finding the peace, thus releasing karma.

But what do I know?

Quote
When it comes to grounding the Yin Qi and being filled with Yang Qi it seems to be an automatic practice of any grounding method because you empty what is in your body and get filled because of the sphere that surrounds your body. Think of an air current blowing into water- the air presses into the water, causing the water to expand around the air current, the deeper the air goes into the water the bigger the sphere of water gets around the current, or the idea of a meteor striking the earth- but slower.

Sadly, not how it works in the noble paths which have a pretty accurate description especially in the nei gong phase. None of that is happening til you meditate. And even then, you aren't meditating and storing yin and yang. Only one. The duality that has been expressed throughout the ages is a misnomer; one that has been gone through actually in depth by the magus of java. But even then, there are some inaccuracies (crafty John Chang). But for a general idea, it is actually a good resource. In terms of the paths that escape reincarnation. Which ultimately is what Dao is supposed to accomplish to begin with.

Quote
When heat is raised in the body it creates heat, when you ground you cool the body, I don't see the contradiction.

Or the heat returns to the kidneys promoting balance? Which would be the prevalent mechanism that is occurring....

February 15, 2013, 01:03:09 PM
Reply #23

Mind_Bender

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"second, I do not exactly believe in everything he tells me, I just know he has a good grasp on internal and external skill because of what he has showed me how to perform it through hands on application, and he is my first internal arts instructor.

I'm kind of lost here. You don't believe him, but acknowledge he may have a good grasp of things internal and external? So how can he have both? Is this one of those multiple choice things or..."


I only question the validity of CFQ specifically, when it comes to Bagua and medical qigong I have no doubts about his skill and knowledge at all, like I said, I have seen and felt results.

"But the letting go, relaxation, and detachment that aides the body in finding the peace, thus releasing karma."

That is part of what is meant by grounding- getting in touch with the body.

"When heat is raised in the body it creates heat, when you ground you cool the body, I don't see the contradiction.

Or the heat returns to the kidneys promoting balance? Which would be the prevalent mechanism that is occurring
...."

Maybe that is what is happening, I'm new to this whole qigong thing under an actual instructor. I'm more intuitive with my flow of energy.

You obviously have a greater knowledge of the internal arts, and I am not trying to argue, this is just the way I was taught.

"When it comes to grounding the Yin Qi and being filled with Yang Qi it seems to be an automatic practice of any grounding method because you empty what is in your body and get filled because of the sphere that surrounds your body."

So, I may be wrong about filling with Yang Qi, but I have had results in feeling my 'energy bubble' around my body with higher awareness of my immediate surroundings after grounding practice... which I thought resulted from Yang Qi... but I'm new all of this.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

May 24, 2013, 11:04:30 PM
Reply #24

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First, thank you ,Koujiryuu, for presenting this information from a scholarly perspective. And thank you forum for bumping this old thread. Second, as a Hermetic Alchemist, I have a different perspective to present which complements some points and contradicts other points made here;

First and foremost, there is more than one type of Jing. Now, Jing means "essence" in Chinese, though it could also be "force" or "internal power". It is the sexual force, and a component of your soul. Mystic was right, Jing is affected in many ways, including sexual activity, diet, stress, and balance of the energy system.

I agree and would add that Jing is also affected by ;

energy flow; with breath control, will and muscle locks such as the maha banda the energy is moved at will.

exercise; tai chi, kundalini yoga , martial arts

use; with daily energy work especially up and down the spine,the body is improved and the human energy body develops quickly

experience and pathworking;  ascension alchemy and martial arts for example
predictable continuum of development of adjacent centres; like the physical body the development occurs along a continuum and can not accede the growth of required adjacent centres which afford the ripening of adjacent tan tiens and the ascension of the vibration of energy in that human energy body

attunements;kundalini and shaktipat for example. Kundalini is a reciprocal flow inward which occurs whenever the body builds up a suitable vibration to trigger it like lightning. The magickian/martial artist may increase or decrease kundalini through breath , activity , muscle locks, meditation , projection and martial art exercise.

JING/CHING is AIR
Jing is also called Ching and it is air energy,Hermetically. It does not occur until the core energy centre manifests between the red and orange chakras. Between each pair of vertical chakras a nebulous cloud of energy forms in the human energy body eventually forming a core or centre chakra . The tan tien connects to and engorges this nebula . The treasures of each tan tien are found as the seed in the centre of an apple. The treasures are cultivated in this cauldron and are a supreme energy in exact reciprocal nature to the cauldron in which they are cultivated. Jing then begins as a lower grade air which is clairvoyantly chartreuse green being the reciprocal of the salmon coloured EarthStone. Air is cool , light in weight, dim to bright, damp, passive, positive, female energy which is lifting and envigorating. It repels reciprocal earth energy and it takes on heat from fire and cold from water energies.

THREE STONES CONNECTED WITH TAN TIENS
The magickian/martial artist is born with seven spinal chakras nestled in three stones; the head or moon, the chest or sun and the belly or earth. These are connected through the spine or Tree of Life through a subtle energy body network. The subtle energy tubes which connect the centre or cores of these stones are called tan tiens or dan tiens. The energy of the human energy body steps up and steps down in vibration by moving through the subtle energy body structures. That is neutral prana which lies in the red chakra will become imbibed with earth energy and when moved to the green chakra , it will become imbibed with air energy.

QUANTIFIABLE MEASUREMENT AND ASSESSMENT
The 'treasure' Jing becomes emerald green subsequent to the EarthStone becoming ruby red. Treasures are the purposely cultivated basal energies improved by the development of the human energy body. As the vibration of an energy increases or ascends than it clairsentiently feels more powerful in its flow and surge and it can be seen clairvoyantly to change in colour and it can be heard clairaudiently to change in sound, too .Jing is typically absent at birth and becomes white as it begins, then chartreuse green then emerald green like the Emerald Tablet .

TREASURE OF TAN TIENS
Jing is the 'treasure' of the lower tan tien. It is cultivated in the male cauldron or EarthStone and will be a supreme Air energy affording lift in astral projection from the physical body and  power in the Martial Arts. It can not be cultivated until the tube structures called tan tiens are manifested. The mapping or unfolding of all structures in the human energy body is latent at birth. The magician/ martial artist develops these with use, flow and attunements.

GREEN ANGEL OF THE HERMETIC SPHINX ;CONSCIOUSNESS OF ASCENSION
JING is THE energy of alchemical ascension. It is the colour of the angel of the Hermetic Sphinx and anchors the consciousness of the magickian/martial artist into the form called the Guardian Angel and begins the pathworking of angelic consciousness by connecting oneself to the Higher Self.
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As far as alchemy is concerned, there is a separation of the bodies' different forces. The goal of alchemy (per The Secret of the Golden Flower) is to reunify these forces before developing Shen.
Shen is fire and there is a similar term in Hebrew Kaballah. Shen is the treasure of the head which is called the upper tan tien, the female tan tien and the MoonStone. The stones are not tan tiens, the stones include two chakras, two tubes connected at the core centre between the two chakras called a cauldron. The lower tube is called a tan tien. The treasure of the tan tien is always a reciprocal energy. So the treasure of the cold wet watery MoonStone is a hot golden fire which affords clairvoyance. Some have this treasure at birth all can cultivate it. It is more correct to say that all have a modicum at least of clairvoyance at birth . All can dream. The dreams may be at a basal state flat black and white or at a ascended state; colourful, 3D and lucid. All can see at least in dreams . Most can see in projection. And even the clairvoyantly blind can see in dreamstate the spirit of a loved one approaching at the end of the bed, by the pillow, in the tub , or in the dream itself. All can learn to see and this is best done through the cultivation of shen and daily practice in dim light in meditation with the physical eyes closed taking the consciousness to the centre of the forehead dwelling there and peering through this energy body structure called the third eye. This is activated by the pineal gland at the back of the brain which becomes flaccid in bright sunlight and erect in dim light.

Shen like Jing begins pale white some call this sperm of the energy body and call this male and female sperm. It becomes pale yellow when it has taken on fire. Then it becomes bright yellow and finally golden in hue clairvoyantly. We want the golden shen. This affords clairvoyance at will which can be tuned in or tuned out at will. Shen is hot, dry , bright, positive, active, light in weight, electric male fire energy.It is the reciprocal of the watery state of the upper female tan tien which is the lower tube ascending from the throat to the core centre between the blue and indigo chakras. This upper tan tien is a vital part of the Tree of Life which will, in time with development connect to the middle tan tien which will connect to the lower tan tien. It is more correct to say that these structures are connected in a primitive fashion but the flow between them occurs when the tiny valves within them are activated by muscles, breath, visualisation, will and specific energies. But it is true that the sheaths within these tubes change becoming nested and multicoloured and more capable in use , more sophisticated in function than the state at birth.

The magickian/martial artist is capable of carrying or uploading their subtle energy body pattern into the concurrent and subsequent incarnations it is like a program in the tiny DNA . I call this a spiritual DNA but more correctly it should be called a metaphysical DNA as it occurs in the absence of one's belief system. It is the soul imprint but that soul exists even when it is spiritually retarded. It is not one's belief in God that improves the networking and power of the soul's imprint. But it is their actions, thoughts, communications and pathworking that changes that. The soul is improved by connection to Godhead but all paths lead to God eventually. I have met atheists who recall no dream, no past life, no aspiration, no hope of eternal afterlife. And yet I have witnessed their angelic form project from them and work in service of humanity. This baffles me. I believe that their higher concurrent lives are ascended and that this is a lower vessel on their soul group who may profess ignorance in the waking state but who in the dreamstate is enlightening themselves and serving humanity  to awaken through shamynic inspiration, healing and attuning.


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Neiqi (original Qi; the Qi you are born with, not that which you have gained or lost through life) resides in the Middle Dantien in the heart. Neijing (your soul; the original life force; your true essence) resides in the Lower Dantien and is separate from Jing gained or lost in life; yet Neijing is the root of Jing. Through the microcosmic orbit, zhan zhuang, certain Taiji forms, and meditation with a right mind, the Neiqi is sunk down the conception vessel from the Middle Dantien to the Lower Dantien and reunified with Neijing. So, you bring the original breath of life to the original primordial force-essence, where they unify and produce a cosmic body.
I believe in the efficacy of the microcosmic orbit and have practiced this myself. However I do not think it is as complicated as this author suggests. Moving energy from the crown to the perineum and reversing this flow from perineum to crown daily will afford all desired connectivity. As the subtle body structures improve vibration and develop in sophistication of function it remains vital to continue to effect flow up and down through the spinal Tree of Life to envigorate it and maintain 'wick' and to afford optimum further development.
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Before this process happens, any and all Qigong will only affect your Qi; you basically cannot produce Jing faster than you expend it without unifying Neiqi and Neijing. The process of sinking the Neiqi, and Qi, takes anywhere from one to five years depending on the individual.
No. I disagree. This ignores the fact that individuals are born at diverse levels of human energy body development. And that being born conscious of this or accepting of this as a goal will have already attained this state or are capable of attaining this in less than a year. I would say that this is done in as little as 6 weeks if that person was not born in that state.

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You are correct in stating that Jing is produced by the bone marrow. However, like mystic stated, doing Marrow Washing exercises alone will not produce Jing. It is only from a combination of Marrow Washing Qigong, microcosmic orbit, zhan zhuang, Taiqi, meditation, and a great deal of self-restraint and good diet choices over many years that Jing develops.
 No. The bone marrow is not the producer of Jing. Jing is produced by the energy body itself. If this was not so than the consciousness could not continue to exist or become further enlightened after death of the body and becoming devoid of bones. The spirit and the surviving consciousness do not require bones.

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Furthermore, there is an old Taiqi adage that applies here."You can feel your Qi, but your opponent cannot. You can't feel your Jing, but your opponent can." Some Taoist alchemists will assert that we must develop all treasures and be able to see these and feel these. Mantak Chia is of this accord as are others that the upper tan tien develops the brain , the middle tan tien develops the heart and the lower tan tien develops the womb. Mantak Chia says the alchemist must develop the brain , heart and womb in each cauldron. This is correct.
Where the body has only earth we must bring fire, water and air . Where the body has only one fruit we must bring forth a bounty of fruits.

Fire is light; to see and heat; to warm and to heal
Air is lift; to fly and sound; to hear
Water is fluid; to flow and cold; to heal and to cool
Earth is heavy; to ground and anchor is dark; to hide and dense ; to shield

The Taoist Alchemists strives to produce a baby without a female partner. This baby will be felt being born from the energy body of the alchemist and will be a suitable vessel for the uploading of their soul's imprint or spiritual DNA.

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Jing is not a force you can feel. It only manifests itself martially when the proper technique is applied with the correct intention, and when Neiqi has been sunk to the Lower Dantien. The center of the body, the cinnabar elixir field, is the root of Jing; not your bones. Jing cannot be manipulated or felt. It is invisible.
Jing can be seen and felt and heard. It can be pulled up at will by use of maha banda locks, breath, will and visualisation; after its cultivation.It is not invisible it can be seen in or out of the body with clairvoyance.

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Again, someone thinks that Jing is compressed Qi or that Jing needs to be compressed. This is not true. Jing is the force-essence that is created over a long time of practicing Qigong (particularly Zhan Zhuang). It has nothing to do with compression. You cannot compress that which cannot be felt or controlled; trying to is like trying to grab the wind..Jing is not compressed Qi.
It can be concentrated and made stronger , bolder , more capable. This occurs through use, flow, pathworking, exercise, and attunements. There is an inherent difference in the quality of pale white Jing and emerald green Jing. White is inferior but promising. Jing is superior and delivering. Qi/Chi is not Jing at all. It is Water energy which is female,cold,wet,negative, passive,magnetic energy. Energy can be stepped up or down and become another vibration and take on the qualities of that vibration like frequencies on an EMR or a tuner finding a station on a radio;
 
Air  highest vibration; white, greens cool, damp, positive, lightest in weight, lifting, raising vibration of other energies, healing, projecting, ascending consciousness; ruby red 'XIE' supernal HeavenStone

Water lowering vibration; blues, purples, wettest, coldest, dark, negative, cooling, carrying , flow QI/CHI

Fire raising vibration; yellow, orange, golden, hottest, driest, positive, light in weight,brightest in light,  SHEN

Earth lowest vibration;browns, reds, moist darkest, heaviest, negative grounding shielding hiding male energy JING/CHING

Supernal green  air      Heaven    ruby         earth  Philosophers' Xie
head       blue    water Moon       golden      fire     Shen
chest      yellow fire     Sun         sapphire   water  Chi/Qi
belly       red     earth   Earth       emerald    air      Ching/JING

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wikipedia:
Jīng (Chinese: 精; Wade-Giles: ching) is the Chinese word for "essence", specifically kidney essence. Along with qì and shén, it is considered one of the Three Treasures Sanbao 三寶 of Traditional Chinese Medicine or TCM. According to tradition, Jīng is stored in the kidneys and is the most dense physical matter within the body (as opposed to shén which is the most volatile).
Although the bones and organs are affected by the treasures it is clumsy and inexact to say that these are produced or stored in the physical body these are the essences of the subtle energies in the human energy body. Jing is air it is formed in the densest energy earth but it is not earth it is the reciprocal of it.  

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It is said to be the material basis for the physical body and is yīn in nature, which means it nourishes, fuels, and cools the body.
Hermetically yin is female; water and air. Yang is male; fire and earth.

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As such it is an important concept in the internal martial arts. Jīng is also believed by some to be the carrier of our heritage (similar to DNA). Production of semen, in the man, and menstrual blood (or pregnancy), in the woman, are believed to place the biggest strains on jīng. Because of this, some even equate jīng with semen, but this is inaccurate; the jīng circulates through the 8 extraordinary vessels and creates marrow and semen, among other functions.
8 Extraordinary Vessels ;  http://www.aardvarksfly.com/files/CHFOUR8.31PDF.pdf
The placement of the vessels at shoulders,abdomen and perineum coincide with the some of the sepiroth of the Tree of Life. These are smaller energy centres which can become clairvoyantly visible like the chakras but are the size of olives to plums whereas the chakras are mandarins to basketball in size. The energy centres at the wrist are minor and not depicted on the spinal chakras of course or on the spheres of the Tree of Life.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&biw=452&bih=263&tbm=isch&tbnid=qBBZFT3PxMEJCM:&imgrefurl=http://www.docstoc.com/docs/23249931/Five-Breaths-to-Unblock-Eight-Vessels&docid=gGXGGjB7RS4yKM&imgurl=http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/23249931.png&w=1275&h=1650&ei=UFegUeOzBca6lQXA6IDwAQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:36,s:0,i:198&iact=rc&dur=1502&page=5&tbnh=167&tbnw=142&start=34&ndsp=9&tx=57&ty=67

The female sperm and the male womb are  names for this energy that is white blue and in appearance like weak breast milk or semen the male womb is the lower cauldron which produces the vessel to contain the imprint made in the seminal flow . The female semen is a form of water or Qi. The male womb is a dense protective form of earth in the belly of male or female humans.

Jing is not made by foods. Early Hermeticists felt the same that temperaments were influenced by energies which were influenced by foods. Today the temperaments such as choleric and sanguineare found to be improved by energy flow, use, pathworking, service, actions and thoughts not foods.

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So, then, how do we truly define Jing?...It is impacted negatively by stress, sex and diet.
What isn't negatively impacted by stress? Sex is both positive and negative reducing stress and heightening pleasure and self worth but perhaps enacting rage, lust, std/vd,and reducing self worth.
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It can be bolstered by certain Qigong forms, teas, herbs, meditation, proper sleep, and an overall healthy lifestyle.
As above, these are influences positive and negative over many attributes of life and do not define Jing production or depletion, per se.
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It is derived from Qi and for the purposes of the martial arts, led by Qi. You cannot feel or directly manipulate your Jing in the same manner as your Qi.
Jing is developed by the cauldron occurring between the orange and red chakras. It is fed with energy flowing upwards from the perineum to the naval through a subtle body structure called the lower tan tien or male tan tien. It is also fed from a reciprocal tube or tan tien flowing down from the middle tan tien from the SunStone. Qi is water energy or flow which moves and carries energies.

There are two main plates of energies at birth . These occur on the scalp and the perineum. The upper one is female in nature and moves energy downward from the upper os and from the purple chakra to the red chakra. It is called the Crown of the Goddess. It has a bundle of nadis within it called a kanda /candle. The lower one is male in nature and moves energy upward from the lower os to the red earth stone up towards the green heaven stone. There is a bundle of nadis within it called a kanda/candle these diverge into three primary channels; Pingali, Ida and Sushumna. Like the stones of earth, fire and water, air is missing. So too in the nadis there is father sun yellow fire, mother moon blue water, and prince blood pink earth but air is missing. Air is not the philosopher stone however. Air is the supernal Heavenstone which yields the ruby red treasure which has been called Xie for gratitude. It affords connection to Godhead , UnioMystica and the writing of the imprint of the soul's  spiritual dna throgh the immortal rainbow energy body. It is "under the earth" that we find that.

There is an infernal stone which occurs under the physical earth beneath the feet of the magickian/martial artist it is on the head of the hanged man and that has another treasure;
heaven supernal air treasure earth 'Xie' precursor of the Philosopher Stone
moon head water treasure fire Shen
sun  head fire  treasure water Qi
earth belly earth treasure air Jing
golden bowl below feet infernal.sun......................moon.akasha Philosopher's Stone

The feet of the Hanged Man or infernal tree open and close an ouroborous. The silver dome of the physical cranium connects with the golden bowl of the hanged man's head. When open this is linear and the magickian is tuned out  and grounded. When closed this is circular and the magickian is connected , switched on , tuned in. The magickian learns to connect this at will with what Alister Crowley called the black cube. There are two cubic structures a white and silver one and a black and gold one. Like magnets these may turn and repel each other and cause  the circuit to be turned off or they may turn another way and cause the circuit to close and become connected and switched on.

The gaining of the Philosopher's Stone is the ability to open and close the ouroborous at will lengthening the circuit and widening it with development so that the spiritual DNA is imprinted by the soul on the subsequent incarnations and so that the soul is magnified on its route to enlightenment. This causes the magickian to be able to feel clairsentiently, to see clairvoyantly, to hear clairaudiently, to fly in projection and to manifest with control at will.

This is not the panacea though. Life gives us trials and tribulations which the Buddhists monks and nuns see as joy. A full plate of suffering provides a life of learning and cleansing of negative karma. We have been taught that the enlightened do not suffer. Enlightenment is an infinite and eternal path full of woe. Those who lack compassion do not hear the cries of the world and are not moved and are by definition not enlightened.

Qi does lead Jing.It leads all.

Thank you for this thought provoking thread.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 05:09:55 PM by Aunt Clair »
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May 24, 2013, 11:52:21 PM
Reply #25

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Dao (Tao) is the empty force, stillness, static, literally the 'Way' ('do' [pronounced doh] in Japanese). It is the beginning and end of all life and existence. If Jing is the battery, Qi the electric current and Shen the electrician, then what is Dao? What is Dao? I'll leave that to the Immortals! (Not so funny) humor aside, it is the state in which we flow, act, react and 'let go' and are non-attached. It may or may not be related to the Sahasrara Chakra (Wheel of a Thousand Lotus Petals), at the tip of the head (Pa Hui). It's element is all and none, but can be comprehended as Unity or Connection and represents Divine connection, prophecy, Enlightenment. When this Chakra is fully open all other Chakras are open and flowing smoothly, creating what the Vajra Buddhists call the Rainbow Body, and others refer to as Liberation, Enlightenment, Conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel, Sainthood, etc.There are many complicated explanations of Jing, QI, Shen and Dao related to organs, Yin-Yang and the Five Elements Theory...

This defines the treasure of the supernal tan tien which has been called Xie or gratitude connectivity to Godhead, unio mystica, self realization, manifestation, preparation of the immortal rainbow body and the precursor of the Philosopher's Stone. I am certain that
Jing is emerald green noble air energy
Qi is sapphire blue noble water energy
Shen is golden noble fire energy
I feel that Dao/Tao is the same as Xie a ruby red noble earth energy cultivated above the crown, at least by the above definition. However I would have said that Tao is the path and not the supernal treasure but the path to it. Now I am confused by your definition and will seek to research the terms, more.

When you learn to let go of the whole idea of Enlightenment- it is hogwash- you are much better off for it...There is no need to be excited about ideas like Qi, Jing, Shen, Dao, Brahma, Kundalini, 5 Elements, Enlightenment...none of this matters. It disrupts your balance and leads to delusion. Just center yourself and live your life. Do good and love others. Meditate and become your true Self. That's all you need.
From reading the rest of your text, I doubt that you meant to diminish enlightenment as hogwash.
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It is said that Jing turns to Qi, Qi turns to Shen, and Shen returns to nothingness.
Energy can be stepped up or down , transformed to a higher or lower vibration.
Jing is the lowest and earth, Qi is water in the middle of the body and middle in vibration, Shen is higher on the body and highest in vibration it is fire. Above Shen is Dao in supernal energy centres that blossom or manifest after pathworking begins. There is nothingness there but it becomes something. The chakras are in pairs in three centres the 7th chakra is crowning the Tree of Life and it manifests the supernal canopy out of the "nothing" above each head;
violet & nothing Air supernal treasure Earth Xie / Dao / Tao
blue & indigo Water head Treasure Fire Shen
yellow & green Fire chest Treasure Water Qi
orange& red Earth belly Treasure Air Jing



When it comes to practices such as Kundalini Yoga and the Microcosmic Orbit this is raising energy in the body as well, which is heat, but the focus of the problem here is no longer on heat but visualization. When we visualize we may delude ourselves more. Every occult tradition, Qigong method, meditative Yoga practice, New Age and holistic energy work I have practiced and read about all emphasize visualization- let us not forget hypnosis and NLP. Unless you are blind, do you really need to visualize? Seriously think about that.

We have the internet, nature, the day and night time sky, people with their own sense of style, and the list never ends; we are constantly bombarded by visual cues, even when we close our eyes! We survive by sight, so why is visualization so important? (Rhetorical question). The problem with visualization is that it can cause psychoses after a while as we are teaching our minds to see things that are in our heads and not actually part of the physical world (look at Ceremonial, especially summoning, magic and Psionic constructs- it's based a lot upon what you can clairvoyantly see) and after a while these mind pictures may start to take control leading to unhealthy behaviors like God-complex or prophetic delusions. This is not say clairvoyants or prophets are delusional (my opinion), but we should not seek the power if it is not already ours to begin with (I just punched myself in the face with that last sentence regarding our previous conversation!).

The reason why practices such as Kundalini were, and still are, important in India is because they are an agricultural people, meaning they are naturally grounded. They are knee deep in the earth, often literally, so the raising of Kundalini and moving Shakti throughout the body helps them balance Prana by ascending it up the spine, it is the same for the development of Jing, Qi and Shen in Daoist Alchemy and Shaolin Qi Gong. They are an agricultural people as well, hence the importance of raising energy from the Lower Dan Ti'en up and throughout the body, but in our modern culture as stated in the previous section, we are so much in our heads with all the talking over the phone, watching movies, pretty people gazing, reading and writing on this forum and such practices we need to ground the energy to be more balanced. We personally live in a society of desk jobs, visual and auditory entertainment, dealing with other people and their problems, questions and opinions (customer service) we often forget just to feel the body. Not listen to it, not visualizing healing white, green or gold light, but feeling the body. Emptying the mind, but not by concentrating on quieting thought (as thought is a mental head process) but feeling the breath and feelings in, on and around the body.

Magic and esoteric practices are very bad in Sifu's view because he believes it leads to negative karma and dealing with powers that are not ours to deal with in the first place. As he told me several times when I was questioning him about magic, the Gods have their world with their own lives to lead so we should stop bothering them. That is not to say an avatar won't come down here and there and light the way for us, but we should leave them be otherwise. It is in our karma to one day become Gods and Goddesses as they were once humans and will be again, and the Cycle continues. Once again, sometimes Deity calls to us and we should not ignore their call (my opinion) but seeking after their graces through ritual and especially through command just isn't good. They do answer and bless us with their presence and powers but it often comes with a price, such as opening other doors as well... when a door to the Celestial realms is open a door to the Lower realms open as well. Polarity, cause and effect, get used to it.
Magick is the raison detre it is the point of life to learn to be and to become as the Godhead, benevolent, compassionate, protective, nurturing, inspirational and serving the children of earth. It is not a trap but an outlet to fly from the body at will to travel the realms and the dreamstate. It is not an impediment or anchor , magick is an eternal candle. Kundalini is the candle for all humanity not just those agricultural workers in India as you profess. It is the noble reciprocal force that enters the body to raise its vibration. Kundalini is not one way and one elemental. In time it becomes water and air kundalini. It does not only ascend from perineum to crown up the spine, it will in time descend the spine in sheets of water energy and envigorate each limb, also.

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Sifu warns against magic the most as it opens negative spiritual doorways and leads to desire and attachment that turns into more karmic baggage and the attachment of parasitic and demonic entities to our auras and even to our loved ones.

Magick is a pathworking which increases the vibration affording greater protection against demons and lending itself to the banishing and exorcism of these from others, in service.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 12:18:19 AM by Aunt Clair »
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May 25, 2013, 12:19:32 AM
Reply #26

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Aunt Clair, I respect your experience and reply.

However, considering it's very late, I am only going to selectively reply to what you have written, as it's VERY long and replying to everything would take me two hours.

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First, thank you for presenting this information from a scholarly perspective.
Second, as a Hermetic Alchemist, I have a different perspective to present which complements some points and contradicts other points made here;

Of course it would be scholarly. However, be aware that this isn't the magick forums, it's Body Energy Arts, so my standpoints come from that of a practicing Daoist and martial artist with a lifelong interest in these things. Hermetics doesn't really mean much here.

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...energy flow; with breath control, will and muscle locks such as the maha banda the energy is moved at will.

exercise; tai chi, kundalini yoga , martial arts

use; with daily energy work especially up and down the spine,the body is improved and the human energy body develops quickly

experience and pathworking;  ascension alchemy and martial arts for example
predictable continuum of development of adjacent centres; like the physical body the development occurs along a continuum and can not accede the growth of required adjacent centres which afford the ripening of adjacent tan tiens and the ascension of the vibration of energy in that human energy body

attunements;kundalini and shaktipat for example. Kundalini is a reciprocal flow inward which occurs whenever the body builds up a suitable vibration to trigger it like lightning. The magickian/martial artist may increase or decrease kundalini through breath , activity , muscle locks, meditation , projection and martial art exercise....

All of this is correct and I agree.

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Shen is fire and there is a similar term in Hebrew Kaballah. Shen is the treasure of the head which is called the upper tan tien, the female tan tien and the MoonStone. The stones are not tan tiens, the stones include two chakras, two tubes connected at the core centre between the two chakras called a cauldron. The lower tube is called a tan tien. The treasure of the tan tien is always a reciprocal energy. So the treasure of the cold wet watery MoonStone is a hot golden fire which affords clairvoyance. Some have this treasure at birth all can cultivate it. It is more correct to say that all have a modicum at least of clairvoyance at birth . All can dream. The dreams may be at a basal state flat black and white or at a ascended state; colourful, 3D and lucid. All can see at least in dreams . Most can see in projection. And even the clairvoyantly blind can see in dreamstate the spirit of a loved one approaching at the end of the bed, by the pillow, in the tub , or in the dream itself. All can learn to see and this is best done through the cultivation of shen and daily practice in dim light in meditation with the physical eyes closed taking the consciousness to the centre of the forehead dwelling there and peering through this energy body structure called the third eye. This is activated by the pineal gland at the back of the brain which becomes flaccid in bright sunlight and erect in dim light.

This is all mostly correct; Shen is the spirit-mind located in the head (pineal gland) and the root of clairvoyance.

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Shen like Jing begins pale white some call this sperm of the energy body and call this male and female sperm. It becomes pale yellow when it has taken on fire. Then it becomes bright yellow and finally golden in hue clairvoyantly. We want the golden shen. This affords clairvoyance at will which can be tuned in or tuned out at will. Shen is hot, dry , bright, positive, active, light in weight, electric male fire energy.It is the reciprocal of the watery state of the upper female tan tien which is the lower tube ascending from the throat to the core centre between the blue and indigo chakras. This upper tan tien is a vital part of the Tree of Life which will, in time with development connect to the middle tan tien which will connect to the lower tan tien. It is more correct to say that these structures are connected in a primitive fashion but the flow between them occurs when the tiny valves within them are activated by muscles, breath, visualisation, will and specific energies. But it is true that the sheaths within these tubes change becoming nested and multicoloured and more capable in use , more sophisticated in function than the state at birth.

This is essentially correct.

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The magickian/martial artist is capable of carrying or uploading their subtle energy body pattern into the concurrent and subsequent incarnations it is like a program in the tiny DNA . I call this a spiritual DNA but more correctly it should be called a metaphysical DNA as it occurs in the absence of one's belief system. It is the soul imprint but that soul exists even when it is spiritually retarded. It is not one's belief in God that improves the networking and power of the soul's imprint. But it is their actions, thoughts, communications and pathworking that changes that. The soul is improved by connection to Godhead but all paths lead to God eventually. I have met atheists who recall no dream, no past life, no aspiration, no hope of eternal afterlife. And yet I have witnessed their angelic form project from them and work in service of humanity. This baffles me. I believe that their higher concurrent lives are ascended and that this is a lower vessel on their soul group who may profess ignorance in the waking state but who in the dreamstate is enlightening themselves and serving humanity  to awaken through shamynic inspiration, healing and attuning.

This is where you're getting way off the mark and into oddball territory. This, to me, screams "new age bile". Jing, Qi and Shen have been around as ideas and used by the Daoists for thousands of years. It is only in the last hundred years that DNA has even been known to exist. The idea of the Daoist Three Treasures and Alchemy has existed for many thousands of years without the idea of DNA activation, etc. It's basically hogwash and can't be proven. It is easy for any Qigong stylist, internal martial artist and so on to rationalize and accept the Three Treasures as being true. It is quite difficult to prove them scientifically, but the effects of something like Qigong can be measured, so Qi can be measured. Something that applies Jing indirectly like Fa Jing (emitting power), or the One-Inch Punch of Bruce Lee can be analysed and essentially proven. Things dealing with Shen, such as remote viewing, have been scientifically tested and proven to be true. So, in this way we see that it is possible to prove them all individually, which essentially proves them all as a coherent theory, and a method of self development. However, when you get into things like DNA, claiming that we evolve to have 25 strands of DNA, and other New Age theories that deal with this, there is no rational basis to them and no way of proving them. You show me a New Ager that claims he has X many strans of DNA, and we can give him a blood test, and I guarantee that DNA will be a 2 strand double helix. I'm not a molecular biologist either, just a bullshit sniffer.

As mystic said, Jing does have an effect on cell growth, and he claims that each cell in the body possesses Jing. I would tend to agree with this- however, I don't believe any sort of alchemical process can lead to "evolving DNA".

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I believe in the efficacy of the microcosmic orbit and have practiced this myself. However I do not think it is as complicated as this author suggests. Moving energy from the crown to the perineum and reversing this flow from perineum to crown daily will afford all desired connectivity. As the subtle body structures improve vibration and develop in sophistication of function it remains vital to continue to effect flow up and down through the spinal Tree of Life to envigorate it and maintain 'wick' and to afford optimum further development.

It is a paradox. Something can be two things at once, no? It is at once simple to learn, yet difficult to master. The truth lies in texts like "The Secret of the Golden Flower". If it didn't have some level of complexity and underlying secret, it wouldn't have a whole ancient text dedicated solely to it.

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Before this process happens, any and all Qigong will only affect your Qi; you basically cannot produce Jing faster than you expend it without unifying Neiqi and Neijing. The process of sinking the Neiqi, and Qi, takes anywhere from one to five years depending on the individual.

No. I disagree. This ignores the fact that individuals are born at diverse levels of human energy body development. And that being born conscious of this or accepting of this as a goal will have already attained this state or are capable of attaining this in less than a year. I would say that this is done in as little as 6 weeks if that person was not born in that state.

For some, it is easy. For me, I was able to sink my Qi into the Dantian after about six months of practice, and begin to practice the MCO. This is just a general timeframe. For most people to truly feel their Qi, usually takes at least 3 months of meditation daily. It took me that long to really feel it, and not be working entirely with tactile feedback. Regardless, I am going to have to admit that to some degree you're right- my study group goes from very basic Qigong to the microcosmic orbit in six weeks. If I had my way, it would take much longer to get that far, and we'd probably spend at least 6 weeks just feeling out our Qi alone. Ultimately, rushing things leads to a poor practitioner- and especially nowadays, overimagination and delusion. A lot of people think they are working with energy when they are just simulating the feel of something in the body. This is tactile feedback. If this stuff were all as easy as you claim, real Buddhist and Daoist monks in China wouldn't spend years in training Qigong alone. These kinds of things take even MORE time and dedication if you get into something like Iron Palm or Iron Shirt (Yi Jin Jing), which can take years to achieve, and are very dangerous and injury prone.

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No. The bone marrow is not the producer of Jing. Jing is produced by the energy body itself. If this was not so than the consciousness could not continue to exist or become further enlightened after death of the body and becoming devoid of bones. The spirit and the surviving consciousness do not require bones.

Furthermore, there is an old Taiqi adage that applies here."You can feel your Qi, but your opponent cannot. You can't feel your Jing, but your opponent can." Some Taoist alchemists will assert that we must develop all treasures and be able to see these and feel these. Mantak Chia is of this accord as are others that the upper tan tien develops the brain , the middle tan tien develops the heart and the lower tan tien develops the womb. Mantak Chia says the alchemist must develop the brain , heart and womb in each cauldron. This is correct.
Where the body has only earth we must bring fire, water and air . Where the body has only one fruit we must bring forth a bounty of fruits.

Fire is light; to see and heat; to warm and to heal
Air is lift; to fly and sound; to hear
Water is fluid; to flow and cold; to heal and to cool
Earth is heavy; to ground and anchor is dark; to hide and dense ; to shield

The Taoist Alchemists strives to produce a baby without a female partner. This baby will be felt being born from the energy body of the alchemist and will be a suitable vessel for the uploading of their soul's imprint or spiritual DNA.

The Bone Marrow and Kidneys (gonads) are the producers of Jing. This is what traditional Chinese Medicine believes. It is also what my study has taught me. To anyone else reading this, you can believe Aunt Clair if you want. However, she's wrong.

That adage you posted is one I have frequently used myself to illustrate the point that Jing is not a tangible energy that can be manipulated or worked with in the same manner as Qi. You cannot make "Jing balls", "Jing techs", and so on, and Jing is not simply compressed Qi.

I won't even get into the thing about babies without a female partner.  :headwall:  :headwall:  :headwall:

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Jing can be seen and felt and heard. It can be pulled up at will by use of maha banda locks, breath, will and visualisation; after its cultivation.It is not invisible it can be seen in or out of the body with clairvoyance.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Qi cannot be seen, neither can Jing. If you turn off the lights and claim to see energy in the dark, and think you're seeing Qi, it's really probably just neural discharges in your eyes from your relaxed state of meditation.

Jing cannot be directly controlled or manipulated. It can be felt, I'll give you that, when you use it against an opponent.

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It can be concentrated and made stronger , bolder , more capable. This occurs through use, flow, pathworking, exercise, and attunements. There is an inherent difference in the quality of pale white Jing and emerald green Jing. White is inferior but promising. Jing is superior and delivering. Qi/Chi is not Jing at all. It is Water energy which is female,cold,wet,negative, passive,magnetic energy. Energy can be stepped up or down and become another vibration and take on the qualities of that vibration like frequencies on an EMR or a tuner finding a station on a radio;

No, Jing is developed through restraint, self moderation, abstinence from sex, Zhan Zhuang and Qigong, proper diet, exercise, and many other things. I don't know what you mean by "use", as I said, Jing cannot be manipulated like Qi. If you think you are manipulating Jing, you are probably just manipulating Qi. Through certain techniques it can be employed, particularly in the internal arts, but it cannot be manipulated. I know this from trying, from 15 years of experience, and from study. I don't know what "flow", "pathworking" and "attunements" are but they all sound equally hokey to me. I'll give you that much.

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Air  highest vibration; white, greens cool, damp, positive, lightest in weight, lifting, raising vibration of other energies, healing, projecting, ascending consciousness; ruby red 'XIE' supernal HeavenStone

Water lowering vibration; blues, purples, wettest, coldest, dark, negative, cooling, carrying , flow QI/CHI

Fire raising vibration; yellow, orange, golden, hottest, driest, positive, light in weight,brightest in light,  SHEN

Earth lowest vibration;browns, reds, moist darkest, heaviest, negative grounding shielding hiding male energy JING/CHING

I don't know where you're getting this from but I would advise anyone else reading to probably disregard any such charts.

Traditionally in Qigong, according to Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming, president of the YMAA, author of 40 books on Qigong, and Kungfu student since 1961..

Jing is Yin in nature and is water element and centered in the lower Dantian.

Qi is Yang in nature and is fire element and centered in the middle Dantian.

This comes directly from Qigong: The Secret of Youth by Dr. Yang.

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Although the bones and organs are affected by the treasures it is clumsy and inexact to say that these are produced or stored in the physical body these are the essences of the subtle energies in the human energy body. Jing is air it is formed in the densest energy earth but it is not earth it is the reciprocal of it.

Jing is not air; it's water. This is evidenced in Daoist Fire and Water (Kan and Li) meditations. Additionally, it is very much a physical force, as it develops and builds in the muscles over time. This happens through Stance Training (Zhan Zhuang). This is why someone who doesn't have solid stance training and hasn't built the muscles of the abdominals, legs, and lower back cannot do Fa Jing (One Inch Punch or Explosive Power).

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Hermetically yin is female; water and air. Yang is male; fire and earth.

Yes, because after 15 years of doing this I don't know what Yin and Yang are.  :headwall: :HA!:

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Jing is developed by the cauldron occurring between the orange and red chakras. It is fed with energy flowing upwards from the perineum to the naval through a subtle body structure called the lower tan tien or male tan tien. It is also fed from a reciprocal tube or tan tien flowing down from the middle tan tien from the SunStone. Qi is water energy or flow which moves and carries energies. There are two main plates of energies at birth . These occur on the scalp and the perineum. The upper one is female in nature and moves energy downward from the upper os and from the purple chakra to the red chakra. It is called the Crown of the Goddess. It has a bundle of nadis within it called a kanda /candle. The lower one is male in nature and moves energy upward from the lower os to the red earth stone up towards the green heaven stone. There is a bundle of nadis within it called a kanda/candle these diverge into three primary channels; Pingali, Ida and Sushumna. Like the stones of earth, fire and water, air is missing. So too in the nadis there is father sun yellow fire, mother moon blue water, and prince blood pink earth but air is missing. Air is not the philosopher stone however. Air is the supernal Heavenstone which yields the ruby red treasure which has been called Xie for gratitude. It affords connection to Godhead , UnioMystica and the writing of the imprint of the soul's  spiritual dna throgh the immortal rainbow energy body. It is "under the earth" that we find that. There is an infernal stone which occurs under the physical earth beneath the feet of the magickian/martial artist it is on the head of the hanged man and that has another treasure;
heaven supernal air treasure earth 'Xie' precursor of the Philosopher Stone
moon head water treasure fire Shen
sun  head fire  treasure water Qi
earth belly earth treasure air Jing
golden bowl below feet infernal.sun......................moon.akasha Philosopher's Stone
The feet of the Hanged Man or infernal tree open and close an ouroborous. The silver dome of the physical cranium connects with the golden bowl of the hanged man's head. When open this is linear and the magickian is tuned out  and grounded. When closed this is circular and the magickian is connected , switched on , tuned in. The magickian learns to connect this at will with what Alister Crowley called the black cube. There are two cubic structures a white and silver one and a black and gold one. Like magnets these may turn and repel each other and cause  the circuit to be turned off or they may turn another way and cause the circuit to close and become connected and switched on.

This is decent information and I like the idea of the Dantian being connected by tubes, as long as you don't see that as being a real physical feature of the human body.

However, I would caution you about mixing paradigms into each other like that. When I do Kundalini yoga I work with the nadis, Ida and Pingala, and Sushumna. Sushumna directly relates to the Chongmei (Through-going) meridian, but Ida and Pingala are separate and distinct from the Dumei (Governor) and Renmei (Conception) vessels. So, depending on if I'm doing Yoga or Qigong I switch between working with Chakras and Nadis to Dantian and Meridians. Of course, these have parallels, but we must be careful in realizing they are different systems developed independently and from different schools of thought and philosophy. If you are interested more in the parallels, I encourage you to check this article in the Appendix.

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The gaining of the Philosopher's Stone is the ability to open and close the ouroborous at will lengthening the circuit and widening it with development so that the spiritual DNA is imprinted by the soul on the subsequent incarnations and so that the soul is magnified on its route to enlightenment. This causes the magickian to be able to feel clairsentiently, to see clairvoyantly, to hear clairaudiently, to fly in projection and to manifest with control at will. This is not the panacea though. Life gives us trials and tribulations which the Buddhists monks and nuns see as joy. A full plate of suffering provides a life of learning and cleansing of negative karma. We have been taught that the enlightened do not suffer. Enlightenment is an infinite and eternal path full of woe. Those who lack compassion do not hear the cries of the world and are not moved and are by definition not enlightened.

And, back to the New Agey stuff about DNA.  :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall:

Also, "Enlightenment is an infinite and eternal path full of woe"? Traditionally, the true Enlightenment of Buddhism is a liberation of karma and thusly, the end of all suffering, with the obligation to relieve all other beings of that same suffering. I think if someone truly makes it to this point (Hint: Nobody on the internet has. I don't care who they are) they would be above such a simple, mortal concept such as woe.

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Qi does lead Jing.It leads all.

Yes, this is what I'm subtlety getting at. The key to manifesting Jing is to manifest your Qi. Thus, when I say that Jing cannot be directly controlled, I'm just saying that you can't form it into a ball or move it around the body or shoot it at your cat or whatever. That doesn't mean there aren't other ways to apply it, because at a certain level of development your Jing and Qi cease to be separate and become attached to each other, and even eventually become one. This takes many years of training, and I'm not fully at that point yet, but I have experienced Kundalini, which in Qigong is known as Xi Shui Jing or the rising of the water path. When someone has attained to this level the Jing and Qi become intertwined. I guess I had to spell it out fully to make it known, I have some secrets too, and this is the only basis why I said Jing cannot be controlled. (It can't, until you experience awakening, and even then it's still a separate force, and it's mostly Qi flowing in the spine.)

 
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Thank you for this thought provoking thread.

No problem. Thank you for the thought provoking reply. Be aware, though, that this reply took an hour of my time when I was in the middle of meditation. So, if you post another very long reply I may not respond as much.

Good Health and Training.

Kouji
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May 25, 2013, 06:06:02 AM
Reply #27

Aunt Clair

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The idea of the Daoist Three Treasures and Alchemy has existed for many thousands of years without the idea of DNA activation, etc. It's basically hogwash and can't be proven.
It doesn't need to be proven. I agree that this premise is preposterous. The process I meant to convey was the transference of a portion of one's attained vibration , subtle energy structures  and conciousness after death to imprint this on the next incarnation.
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"Many Western and Eastern traditions share a common doctrine on a spiritual and immortal body which represents the ultimate goal of many ascetical works"...called the resurrection body or glorified body in Christianity, the most sacred body (wujud al-aqdas) or supracelestial body (jism asli haqiqi) in Sufism, the diamond body in Taoism , the Vajrayana or the light body or rainbow body in Tibetan Buddhism, the body of bliss in Kriya Yoga, and the immortal body (soma athanaton) in Hermeticism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_of_resurrection

"A hundred and one are the arteries of the heart, one of them leads up to the crown of the head. Going upward through that, one becomes immortal."

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...DNA will be a 2 strand double helix. I'm not a molecular biologist either, just a bullshit sniffer.
I agree with you.I don't espouse this gaining new strands of DNA theory nor have I posited that here. I do believe that the vibration of the human continues to evolve slowly over generations but the physical DNA is not affected by any change in the vibration of the subtle energy body.I see your point. By using a DNA analogy, I take on board that the term spiritual DNA is easily confused with a rubbish supposition that the human develops additional strands of DNA.  
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These kinds of things take even MORE time and dedication
I agree.
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I won't even get into the thing about babies without a female partner.
This is a goal of ancient alchemy. It is not my personal theory nor is it absent from the works of Asian Alchemists either. In fact some writings say it is one of the goals of the Microcosmic Orbit. In any case. I find that this is a veiled occult riddle. I can not debate this or even cite my previous readings upon it so I won't. I can only theorise upon it with you .
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Jing can be seen and felt and heard. It can be pulled up at will by use of Maha Banda locks, breath, will and visualisation; after its cultivation.It is not invisible it can be seen in or out of the body with clairvoyance.
Respectfully, ALL subtle energies can be felt and seen. It is not commonly done but it is possible and it has been done since ancient times. There are ancient written records of the colours of the energies in art, occult artefacts and in sacred texts, although these were disparate and continue to be so even in contemporary paradigms.

"The five Tanmatras or rudimentary principles of the elements: Sabda (sound), Sparsa (touch), Rupa (form or colour), Rasa (taste), Gandha (smell)." I can not smell or taste the elements but I can feel and see these and sometimes hear these. It is possible to smell demons though and to smell the fragrance of some spirits. I suppose that is smelling energy. But what is the smell of specific treasures or Hermetic energies?

My conviction that Air is green and sought for ascension as echoed in the choice of colour in the Emerald Tablet comes from a few sources as well as my clairvoyant observations;

3 Principle Nadis;
Ida            Moon cold female pale blue
Pingala      Sun   hot male     yellow
Sushumna Earth                   pink
There are innumerable nadis. The fourth to develop is the illusive sought after princess; Gandahari, princess air.

There are also 3 Principle Stones;
Head        Moon
Chest       Sun
Belly        Earth
Again Air is missing. It is sought after like Gandahari the princess

3 Principle Treasures;  
Upper       Shen    Fire
Middle      Qi        Water
Lower       Jing      Air

The fourth is missing and is found in the supernal 'Xie' Earth. I feel that Tao/Dao is the pathway not the fourth noble energy or treasure.

Many disagree about which treasures correspond to each Hermetic elements or disavow that any correspondence exists. I draw from my own research and observations of the human energy body. But there is accord that there are 4 principle energies or tattwas, not 3.
Air is alluded to in the angel of the Hermetic Sphinx;

totem     body part   imho;element/colour  projected aspect of soul
angel      head         air             green       green winged GA+HS    
eagle      wings        water         blue         blue winged guardian angel
lion         torso hind  fire            yellow      lion maned higher self
bull         forelegs     earth         red           minotaur guardian demon
serpent   tail            earth+ fire  amber      serpent tailed lower self
  
The seeker finds completion by attaining the fourth energy to complete each set. It is interesting that the fourth is usually air. But in Jing it is uniquely the first of a set. Like the ouroboros, there is a circular path from the perineum to the crown and from the crown back to the perineum. Once that first circle is completed then the Jing is created and this mix is now ascended again.The seeker wants Earth and finds it in the supernal energy centres. In the Hermetic Sphinx we see all four energies and the tail is the hint that there are secondary energiesas it is not the 5th tattwa akasha though;
Angel     head   air            green
Eagle     wings  water        blue
Lion       chest   fire           yellow  
Bull        belly   earth         red
Serpent  tail      fire+earth  orange

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I don't know where you're getting this from but I would advise anyone else reading to probably disregard any such charts.
This is mostly Hermetic Alchemy echoed by Franz Bardon in IIH.  But the supernal energy centre is alluded to anciently and has been confirmed by Mantak Chia whom I wrote to regarding Taoist Alchemy and its relation to Hermetic Alchemy.

* Jing "is also believed by some to be the carrier of our heritage (similar to DNA)." This is from Wikipedia . It is true that it is the opinion of "some" which is a vague quantity , I know but I do agree with this.

Only these bits are my own;  
*ruby red supernal treasure within the green supernal HeavenStone
* Qi is water pulled by the breath and muscles begun in the firey chest or Sunstone but reciprocal to it just as firey Shen is reciprocal to the water energy of the head.

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Traditionally in Qigong, according to Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming, president of the YMAA, author of 40 books on Qigong, and Kungfu student since 1961;Jing is Yin in nature and is water element and centered in the lower Dantian.
I agree that it is in the lower Dantian/ tan tien but I disagree that it is water. I love the works of Franz Bardon but he is not infallible either, no one is.

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Qi is Yang in nature and is fire element and centered in the middle Dantian.
Qi is in the middle Dantian I agree.  And it is surrounded by fire.

I subscribed to this belief once myself that the treasure was fire too but fire doesn't flow. Qi is white and then becomes blue and then becomes bright sapphire blue. It is cold , it flows like a river. I am not alone in my conviction that Qi is water. Qi means flow, breath and 'no fire'. Beyond these proofs, each treasure is the reciprocal of the stone in which it is cultivated;
head  water  treasure fire    shen
chest fire     treasure water chi
belly  earth  treasure air     ching

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This is decent information and I like the idea of the Dantian being connected by tubes, as long as you don't see that as being a real physical feature of the human body.
Thank you. Most of that is my own work. I see and feel the energy structures. And I offer free energy body readings so that I can map out the predictable continuum of the development of the human energy body. Most of the people, I read are magickians. I would love to view Martial Artists more often. I find that the extraordinary vessels in the wrists and the energy centres of the palm are predictably advanced in healers and some branches of Martial Art that work with energy. I can be contacted on Skype.

this article in the Appendix.
Thank you. I look forward to reading that.
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And, back to the New Agey stuff about DNA.
It is not my idea but it has merit and it is how this is represented to me in meditation. I saw light pouring from a old fashioned blueprint into a thin tall vase in one vision. In another it was explained to me as a person lying in a coffin rising and lying in another coffin and these two imprints left a fossil like impression in the coffins which was picked up with a blue light and preserved in a clay pot. And various other meditative visions and lessons and reading of the works of others leads me to that conclusion that the energy body can be maintained and transferred to the next incarnation. This is the immortal rainbow energy body, in my humble opinion.

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Also, "Enlightenment is an infinite and eternal path full of woe"? Traditionally, the true Enlightenment of Buddhism is a liberation of karma and thusly, the end of all suffering, with the obligation to relieve all other beings of that same suffering. I think if someone truly makes it to this point (Hint: Nobody on the internet has. I don't care who they are) they would be above such a simple, mortal concept such as woe.

Yes I agree, it would seem so and most Buddhists subscribe to that view. Quan Yen /Konan is a revered Boddhisatva and a Goddess of Compassion who hears the cries of the world. Buddha taught that the one who broke the wheel of Samsara could not enter the golden pond enlightened without hearing the cries of the world and returning to serve with compassion. He taught that one can not be enlightened without ending the suffering of their family, their community and when the student asked, how much suffering must the enlightened one end before they can leave the suffering behind and the Buddha answered; across the entire world and across all time.

Thank you for the time you took for an intelligent and thoughtful reply.
Good Health and Training to you, also.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 04:54:12 PM by Aunt Clair »
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May 25, 2013, 03:16:11 PM
Reply #28

Koujiryuu

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Respectfully, ALL subtle energies can be felt and seen. It is not commonly done but it is possible and it has been done since ancient times. There are ancient written records of the colours of the energies in art, occult artefacts and in sacred texts although these were disparate and continue to be so even in contemporary paradigms.

Again, Jing and Qi are both invisible by nature. If you "see" them or whatever, you are probably seeing neural discharges in the dark. Or, you may see them clairvoyantly, sure, but this will be in a dream state. Seeing them in our physical reality isn't possible. Seeing auras is, but that's different- the aura is a natural emanation of the energy in the body, but it is not the energy itself.

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3 Principle Nadis;
Ida            Moon cold female pale blue
Pingala      Sun   hot male     yellow
Sushumna Earth                   pink
There are innumerable nadis. The fourth to develop is the illusive sought after princess; Gandahari, princess air.

There are also 3 Principle Stones;
Head        Moon
Chest       Sun
Belly        Earth
Again Air is missing. It is sought after like Gandahari the princess

3 Principle Treasures;  
Upper       Shen    Fire
Middle      Qi        Water
Lower       Jing      Air

Again, Qi and Jing are invisible and have no color. Realistically, if you see them clairvoyantly they can be any color you want them to be. However, Qi by nature will be fiery and Jing by nature will be water. Qi is Yang and Jing is Yin. Additionally, you get into divisions like Yin and Yang Qi, where there are both in all the meridians of the body. A big part of Daoist Qigong is balancing and being in touch with both sides, and working for the eventual reunification of the two, to form Wu Qi (or Void Qi, Qi devoid of polarity).

You can make them any color you want if you work clairvoyantly but that is still only your perception. This is why I don't visualize, and why a lot of internal artists don't visualize, because we don't need to. We move the energy through Will alone, and thus avoid the stumbling blocks of imagination and delusion. Mind_Bender wrote a lot about this.

Also, it is bad to try and apply a Hermetic elemental scheme to Qigong because Qigong doesn't use Fire, Air, Earth and Water. Qigong uses the Xingyi, the Chinese five elements of Fire, Water, Earth, Wood and Metal. Further, it expands into the 8 Trigrams Bagua. So please don't relate Qigong to Hermetic elementalism because it's blatantly wrong and against Chinese culture.


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This is Hermetic Alchemy echoed by Franz Bardon in IIH:

The supernal energy centre is alluded to anciently and has been confirmed by Mantak Chia whom I wrote to regarding Taoist Alchemy and its relation to Hermetic Alchemy.

Mantak Chia has no credibility. He charges exorbitant amounts of money for retreats and spiritual teaching and has become rich in the process. Furthermore, students of systems like Longmen Pai and Yang Shen Dao have stated that his practices and beliefs don't align with true Daoist neidan cultivation. I too have read a lot of his work, such as Greater Kan and Li, and astrological correspondences he uses, and none of them align with anything else I've read on Daoist meditation by reputable authors like Yang Jwing Ming and Wong Kiew Kit. I have even heard that the reason Mantak Chia teaches out of Thailand is because he pretty much got run out of China for his practices not being authentic and for lack of credibility. Mystic probably knows more about this than I do.

However, the Universal Tao forums have some insightful posters and good information on things like Daoist Kan and Li practice, that align much better with the Daoist paradigm. So while Mr. Chia has no credibility, he has some knowledgeable and informed students (who probably learned most of what I'm talking about from other places).

Again, Daoist neigong is not Hermetic Alchemy. The associations don't matter. Franz Bardon doesn't matter- he wasn't a Daoist or Martial Artist. From everything I've read he was a fat alcoholic smoker in poor physical shape with heart problems.

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I agree that it is in the lower Dantian/ tan tien but I disagree that it is water. I love the works of Franz Bardon but he is not infallible either, no one is.

Again this has nothing to do with Franz Bardon. I clearly stated that this is the traditional belief in Daoism, and it comes from reputable sources with Chinese Medicine doctorates from China like Dr Yang Jwing Ming.

Jing is Yin in nature and is Water element.

Finally, if you want to read more about Jing and my stance on it, check out this thread:

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,20584.0.html

Good Health and Training.
Kouji
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 03:38:14 PM by Koujiryuu »
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May 27, 2013, 07:58:15 AM
Reply #29

quabbal

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Mantak Chia has no credibility. He charges exorbitant amounts of money for retreats and spiritual teaching and has become rich in the process. Furthermore, students of systems like Longmen Pai and Yang Shen Dao have stated that his practices and beliefs don't align with true Daoist neidan cultivation. I too have read a lot of his work, such as Greater Kan and Li, and astrological correspondences he uses, and none of them align with anything else I've read on Daoist meditation by reputable authors like Yang Jwing Ming and Wong Kiew Kit. I have even heard that the reason Mantak Chia teaches out of Thailand is because he pretty much got run out of China for his practices not being authentic and for lack of credibility. Mystic probably knows more about this than I do.

However, the Universal Tao forums have some insightful posters and good information on things like Daoist Kan and Li practice, that align much better with the Daoist paradigm. So while Mr. Chia has no credibility, he has some knowledgeable and informed students (who probably learned most of what I'm talking about from other places).

Again, Daoist neigong is not Hermetic Alchemy. The associations don't matter. Franz Bardon doesn't matter- he wasn't a Daoist or Martial Artist. From everything I've read he was a fat alcoholic smoker in poor physical shape with heart problems.

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I agree that it is in the lower Dantian/ tan tien but I disagree that it is water. I love the works of Franz Bardon but he is not infallible either, no one is.

Again this has nothing to do with Franz Bardon. I clearly stated that this is the traditional belief in Daoism, and it comes from reputable sources with Chinese Medicine doctorates from China like Dr Yang Jwing Ming.

Yoga and Sex Scandals: No surprise in Taoist Sexual QiGong groups either

Lets' say you are a so-called "Taoist guru" and you want to have, repeatedly, intercourse with minors way under the age of consent, with the excuse of practicing your taoist practices, cool isn't it, then how are you called(p.d..file, he doesnt even hide it, just take a loot at his recent photos, and "feel" his vibe, and teaching sexual practices among young hotties, jeeez does he love that. Yes many of his instructors know these things, but you can't bash your master(trademark) now can you), and where do you go where life is cheap, and you get a lot of minors very young girls. Thailand (CM)

His way of teaching is not bad(if only the single good thing about him), but his materials, you can do without, don't worry. He has made a brand name of himself, so being as an instructor of his, maybe there is some bonus.

I'm no expert, but keeping separate hermetics from daoist practices seems like a good idea. Koujiryuu, please don't bash Bardon, there reasons for his karma and physical conditions, he even explains those, very briefly, on KTQ, on how much he'll be allowed to stay and reveal, I've been practicing his system and unless one hasn't done and had success with that, then one really doesn't have a saying. He was one of the highest initiates of past century, and one can tell that by practicing his system and then decoding between the lines, but let's not get there.