Astral projection VS OBE?

[Tricky]

I'm trying to understand what the difference between these two is, or in better words, what exactly astral projection is and is not.

In my thread here http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,20544.0.html I mentioned how one of my two projections was to a place I had never been before.

I was told that this place was to the "astral" but I dont understand exactly what that is. Is it a real world? Is it a fake world? Where exactly is it?

How can we be sure its not just a dream world?

And when projecting, how can you make yourself go to one or the other? (The astral, or just plane OBE?)

[LeZebra]

Seeing as how my replies are what started this confusion, I thought I would help clarify what I meant.

OBE = out of body experience.
Astral Projection = projection into the astral/astral planes.

There are many conflicting and confusing theories of what constitutes an astral projection and an OBE.
I can give you my general overview.
An obe, like stated above, is ANY experience one has outside of the body. Near death experiences, mental projections, AND astral projection included.
And an astral projection is projecting into the astral. So technically speaking, an obe IS an astral projection.
The astral is separated into layers, not really one on top of the other, but for this its the best way to conceptualize it.
If you look at the physical world, you have the atomic level and then the physical as a whole. They both exist and interact with each other, even if they seem to be separate at times.
The astral is basically anything that is not the physical world. It includes different areas, not just earth, and many of the places are inhabited. Entities, including deities, they usually reside in the astral, even if its a different area than our own. Some people like to also term other incarnating physical realities as the astral, but I think its in bad taste since there is a sense of continuous time which one doesn't really have on the astral as a whole.
So there is a relatively smaller layer, between our physical and the rest of the astral layers which is basically riding our physical reality. When people do magick/pscionics, things "trickle" (not really, they just appear) down from the astral layers one by one til they reach the physical. The last stop before it becomes physical is what I call the real time layer.
Many different projectors, when trying to projected into the layer closest and basically identical in all ways to our physical reality, call it Real Time projecting. I liked the name for it, so I use it to differentiate where I am.
Most of the time, when people are talking about OBE, they describe it as exactly like the physical and they can go visit X location. That is a Real Time projection.
An astral projection is basically any other layer which surrounds the physical AND the layers between different points of existence.

Some people can "project" into different layers easier than others.
Personally, from what I've seen, you exist on all those layers anyways, its just moving your attention to the desired layer.
Sometimes its easier to "look down and through" to desired layer if you cannot maintain the concentration needed.
The real time layer is dense and does have a sense of time. So if you are projecting and it feels like you've been out for an hour, in the physical an hour has passed.
Personally I don't like the real time layer since its limiting for going form A to B quickly, compared to another layer. Also physical sensations that get mapped one to one can hinder how long you stay out if you aren't prepared. And since its the last stop on the way to physical, different things can hinder you into where you want to go. So if people have wards/spells/constructs to keep things out, it would be harder to go through. But that doesn't mean you can't start off at another layer, get to where you want to be (behind a ward/spell/construct) and then move your attention to the real time and do whatever you were looking to do. So like I said, its a limited place to be in a practical sense. I believe bardon talks about this in IIH, but I have my reservations on the whole dying if someone touches your physical body part.

As far as knowing its not a dream world, the best way to do is to look at your body. Many people say that it will automatically suck you back in and then end the projection and wake you up. That is usually true, but then you have the validation that you really were out of body.
With practice, you will become more confident of where you are/were.

To move from plane to plane, you just have to shift your awareness. Sometimes actually stating you want to move to a different place is all it takes.
I would recommend actually trying different things out and not limiting yourself to what is written as far as techniques are concerned.

[Tricky]

Ah thank you buddy I have no clue why your in the red, + 1 karma to you.

[LeZebra]

Ah thank you buddy I have no clue why your in the red, + 1 karma to you.

No problem.
And thanks.

Sometimes, having a different point of view from the majority isn't welcome and people like to show that in various ways.

[Aunt Clair]

I agree with LeZebra's definition that OBE is any out of body experience and Astral Projection is the separation of a subtle body and the projection of that subtle body into the astral plane.

I would add that the mystic can project various forms of subtle body aspects. The Hermetic nature of that aspect is determined by the energies drawn in and significantly by the point of separation.

The mystic can project into , out of or through any energy centre.

Into a sphere
The sephiroth appear clairvoyantly and can be felt clairsentiently upon the body when they are ripe for entrance. For example, the magician can project into the shoulders to attain Geburah and Chesed or into the hips to attain Netzach and Hod. Entering the spine the magician may ride it upwards into the font of light above the crown all the way to Kether. Tipareth, Yesod and Malkuth are found in the core of the cauldrons on the Head, Chest and Belly. But Malkuth does move the subtle energy construct called Malkuth will descend below the perineum and also rise through it to join the sphere of the heart in certain stages of alchemical development.

Through a Chakra
The magician can take their consciousness into a chakra and then project out of it into a world which is coloured by that energy for example entering the yellow chakra the magician will find a realm with a yellow sky and a yellow land and meet surreal dream like visions there.

Out of a Cauldron
The magician's energy body will innately morph when they project from specific energy centres out of the body;

Supernal,HeavenStone;Green Air~ the magician becomes the green angel of the sphinx this is the yellow HS + blue GA which forms the green air HS/GA

Caput ,Upper Female Cauldron,MoonStone,Head; Blue Water~ the magician becomes blue like the eagle of the sphinx and projects as their Guardian Angel winged like the eagle with their face upon the aspect if they have had K&C in this life and if not then they are faceless and wingless like a blue silhouette or they might appear with the face of a past life where they had Knowledge & communication with the Holy Angel.

Middle Cauldron, SunStone,Chest; Yellow Fire~the magician becomes yellow like the lion of the sphinx and the corona of the sun blazes in their aura around the head and shoulders like the lion's mane. They are the Higher Self aspect and may wear their own face if they have attained source in this life or the face of a past life which attained source or they may be a hollow wisp of yellow unformed , still. The HS may walk into the LS to heal and transmute it . It may walk into the GA to be raised by it forming the HS/GA necessary to manifest the archangel within, later.

Lower Male Cauldron. EarthStone, Belly; Red Earth~ the magician becomes red like the Hermetic Bull.  They project as the Guardian Demon within horned hooved and aggressive. By projecting concurrently as the Guardian Angel they may walk one aspect into the other , healing and transmuting the lower vibration of the GD so they can continue ascension. This stalls the magician for a time as they sacrifice a lot of their light into the GD to heal it . But when they recoup they are stronger than before the sacrifice.

Rear of spine, StarStone, Small of Back; Orange Fire~the magician becomes orange like the serpent tail of the sphinx . They project as the Lower Self which will be identical to the higher self after transmutation but before that may appear as the frightened or angry inner child or imaginary friend or protector even descending into a totem such as a fanged giant teddy bear. The magician can project concurrently as the HS from the chest and the LS from the small of the back and walk into each other so that the aspects marry alchemically and become of the same vibration raising the LS but depleting the HS for a time. This sacrifice allows the HS to become stronger after it recoups and it can join with the GA, later.

Out of an energy  centre

Imho and ime the cosmology of the soul ,as revealed  so far , is this;

etc...
Faerion~a purple giant elf eared faerie winged elemental aspect
ArchAngel; silver or golden sphinx or legion
GA/HS;green air , angelic form
Guardian Angel ;blue water, eagle winged
Higher Self ;yellow fire, lion maned aura with blazing yellow sihouette, chest
/\
HUMAN
\/
Lower Self ;orange fire ,serpent tail ,small of back
Guardian Demon; red earth, bull, belly
GD/LS; salmon earth, demonic form
ArchDemon; red , brown, black sphinx or legion
Beast~a charcoal and steel totemic aspect of self
etc...

Astral Self ~ the male magician can vibe out of the front and right side of his body and become blue water although innately he is red earth. The female magician can slip out of the back and left side of her body and become rose earth although she is innately indigo blue water.  They separates the reciprocal energy like the negative of an old photo.These aspects will be monochrome full sized silhouettes which are heavy and limited to the Real Time Zone, the Etheric and Astral Planes.

Mental Body Mini Me ~ the magician may project from the supernal green air centre as djinn. They will morph into a green genie form which has a tail for legs and the arms are attached to the sides of the body. They look like a tadpole all white in early stages and later chartreuse green wearing their own face. This occurs before the HS/GA. This is a lighter higher form of projection which can attain the higher plane realms but is constrained to this universe.

Angelic Self~ The angel body has the advantage of appearing full bodied and can be viewed by the clairvoyant in full colour if the mystic has attained that vibration. It appears in a variety of forms as it ascends; wingless faceless blue column, smurf blue eagle winged with the magician's face, chartreuse green winged and full coloured face, silver or gold sphinx angels having multiple heads and limbs, legion of white, silver, gold angels projecting as 4 to 8 from each cauldron's wheel so that 12 to 32 angels may appear  hand sized , child sized or full adult sized. These will progressively gain the colour of the hair and face of the magician, over time with alchemical ascension. These separate fully in dreamstate for lessons as apprentice angels which serve Godhead healing, comforting, exorcising, learning, teaching, inspiring, shielding, protecting, warning , soul rescuing, and giving hope and messages to the live and the dead.

Golden Seed of Light~ This is a miniscule very light very high vibration superior subtle body aspect made of golden fire Shen. The magician enters trance in dim light and takes the consciousness to the third eye and separates through the third eye emitting self as a golden eye smaller than a grain of rice. This can be taken to another country across the ocean , into the ailing organ of a friend, into a prison cell or a hospital room to visit shamynically and heal another , et cetera. The mystic can take this in remote view to any realm in this universe or another.

Beast ~ The Archdemonic aspect of the magician projects from the infernal black Helstone as shadow charcoal and steel. It is wingless and heavy and easily attains the Hels. It can jump into the infernal realms without fear and empty these realms dragging or helping hitch hikers out . The Hels are full of tormented souls in demonic form and these bleed upward into the homes of kindred ilk causing misfortunes and cruelties to progeny and strangers. By lifting these creatures out of the hels they are tossed into the light and either burn up or change for the better. It is a nasty homework that many are doing nightly . The magician is not solely angel. When we were young we were told not to judge lest we would be judged ourselves. But the magician must unlearn this and learn what is evil and should not be allowed to become immortal and enduring. In this way humanity slowly and painfully spiritually evolves becoming kinder and more humane and compassionate. The archangels wear beast faces and teach the magician what can be exorcised, removed, constrained, condemned and destroyed.

Microcosm;
The magician can project into the microcosm of the heart which is phasing or achieving focus levels in the Robert Monroe fashion. All realms that a magician is capable of attaining manifests in the microcosm of the magician's heart.  Currently a golden city of Shamballah is evident above a horizontal wheel of energy centres on the heart of many magicians during readings. Beneath this wheel which bisects the heart another golden city is inverted. As the magician raises their vibration higher realms appear in the heart.

Mantak Chia ,a Taoist teacher of international repute, revises that the magician is born *with the magickal mind in the upper female cauldron of the head ~direct consciousness
*the magickal heart in the middle cauldron of the chest ~attain realms
*and the magickal womb in the lower male cauldron of the belly~ reproduce soul
And he teaches the magician will manifest a magickal subtle body organ of brain, heart and womb in each cauldron over time with development. 

Internal Projections are not separation of subtle body energy but the direction of the consciousness into other realms , planes or dimensions through the altering of the state of consciousness notably by shifting the brain wave through trancing , breath and energy work or through stimulus such as hemi-sync audio

Macrocosm

The universes external to the magician's energy body are called the macrocosm. That which is outside of our body. All realms can be attained within the heart and external to it.

Cosmology
The cosmology is debated and various descriptors are used to identify specific areas such as planes, dimensions, realms. Imho and ime, this is my cosmology influenced by Kaballah, Blavatsky, Monroe and Stone et al.The names or numbers of the realms are not always agreed upon though .I have attempted to merge the labels myself ;

~Ain Soph Aur
~The Hands above the Crown
~Kether~The Crown
~secret "invisible" and "hidden" realms
~Daath ~The hidden sepiroth
~Top of the Wheel of the pyramids
~Across the abyss to the next Wheel of Life
~Om Shallah the realm of Living Sound and the Crown of Shallah
13
~The Other side of the Cone of Consciousness
~Operation of Ley Lines of Infinity
~Manifestation  Grids
~Tunnels of Eternity
12
~Universal Mind Focus 34-35 is the locale having group consciousness
~Devic Chambers
~Human made spirit homes
~Focus 27: Afterlife free will resembling earth
~Ashrams of other worlds ie Reptilians beyond the trajectory of Ursa Major
11
~Window on Edge of Universe
~Entrance to Hells for Students of the Occult
~Plane of Heavens Focus 24,25,26: Belief Territories of Afterlifers
~Human and Spirit cooperative
~Manifestations of  Metaphysical Colleges
~Temples of Wisdom
~Gates of Death
---Pillar of Light of God and Goddess consciousness
~ Focus 23: "stuck" confused unaware ghosts
10
 ~Plane of Elementals , Devas ,Thrones , the Vortex ,  Elohim Council
~Human Manifestations ie ashrams of live humans
~Called the Pleaides  lies on a trajectory off that star group in Taurus
~Called Sirius lies on a trajectory off this star
~Focus 21: The edge of time/space - contact other energy systems.
9
~Blue Lodge of what is called the Arcturians of Sirius
~Floating Island Temples
8
~Group Monadic Soul - Meeting Higher Self
~Temple of Zodiac and Great Clock
~Focus Level 15: State of no time
~Higher Level of Dragon Temples in Shamballah
7
~Logoic -Shamballah --Temples of Light
~Ashrams of Chohans Great Pyramid
6
~Golden Chamber of Melchiezedek
~Underground Temples
~Atmic Plames
5
~Monadic- work with guides , mahatma , chohans and archangels
~ Astral Hall of Learning – Spiritual King’s Chamber over Luxor
~Focus Level 12: A state of expanded awareness
4
~Astral Lower
~Focus Level 10: Mind Awake/Body Asleep
~Ethereal
~RTZ
3
~Physical
~Focus Level 3: increased mental coherency and balance
~Sub Ethereal
2
~Totemic Earth Wisdom
1
~ Lower Plane of Chaos and “Hell on Earth ”
0
~Magick Elemental Realm
00
Abyss

http://www.skeptictank.org/files//mys2/ap_01.htm
http://www.2012.com.au/dimensions.html
http://www.soulwise.net/25g-awl.htm
http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/thomas/thomasprinciples.htm

This is not inclusive though there are so many realms to visit perhaps the true final frontier is the consciousness which transports the mystic beyond their local universe to the thriving worlds of other universes beyond their own and into the past to view the dead planets and into the future to view new worlds on the horizon.

[Aunt Clair]

A revised and newly proposed partial cosmology of the Realms


All realms are in the microcosm of the magician in their heart initially and later in their brain and in their womb. The magickal heart calls the magician from dreamstate to the wonder of the universes. The magickal mind revises those lessons of the soul from past incarnations and reveals future wisdoms too. The magickal womb manifests last. This pours gently all the spiritual DNA into the souls the magician forms within their energy body during their lifetime seeding future incarnations with the lessons they have attained. The stones also called the cauldron begin on the spine in every human on the head , chest and belly. But the Philosopher's Tree of Life is much more abundant and yields clusters of stones like ripened fruits. Stones big as the belly manifest above the head of the magician and below the hips and then these muliply in a ring of four stones around each of these first four tetrapolar zones. ;

Dimension/Plane......................................................................Energy Centres Projected From....Form of Magician
@14 Kether/Elohim/Secret & Invisible Realms/Daath..............* Cloud Stone~white chakra........*ArchAngel
@13 Manifestation Grid / Ley Lines / Cone of Consciousness.*Universe Stone ~both chakras...*Yin & Yang Bodies
@12 Heavens Afterlife Realms/ Gates of Death......................*HeavenStone~emerald chakra....*Guardian Angel
@11 Window on Edge Universe /Alien Ashrams......................*LunarStone~sapphire................*Lunar Angel
@10B Temples of Compassion/Devic Chamber/Field of Souls..*MotherStone~aqua chakra........* Divine Mother
@10A Human Ashrams/ Group Monads................................. ..*UniverseStone~violet chakra.....*Monadic Body
@09 Edge of Space Ashrams / Floating Temples.....................*MoonStone ~indigo chakra....... * Lunar Body
@08 Dragon Temples/ Time Temples................................ .......*MoonStone ~blue chakra...........*Mystic Body
@07 Logoic / Chohan Rays / Mahatma/Shamballah................*MoonStone ~blue chakra...........*Mystic Body
@06 Golden Chamber/Atmic/11Temples of Wisdom/Hels ......*SolarStone~gold chakra.............*Solar Angel
@05 Akashic Record / Halls of Learning............................... ...*SunStone ~chartreuse chakra....*Mental Body~ Mini Me
@04 Etheric................................ ....................................... ......*SunStone ~ yellow chakra.........*Higher Self
@03 Physical / RTZ /Astral......................................................*EarthStone~ orange chakra........*RTZ OBE Body
@02 SubEtheric............................. ....................................... ..*StarStone ~amber chakra...........*Lower Self/Inner Child
@01 Chaos/Lower Planes................................. ......................*EarthStone ~salmon red chakra.*Guardian Demon
@-1 Totemic................................ ....................................... .....*FatherStone ~ rose chakra........*Divine Father
@-2 Hels................................... ....................................... .......*Hell Stone ~ black chakra............*ArchDemonic
@-3 Magico-Elemental Realm.................................. ................*Tetrapolar Stone ~ ruby chakra..* Elemental Bodies
@    Abyss   Legs



....................................Right....................................Fr ont................................... .............Left............................. Rear
Crown..Green....Air......Chartreuse.. HeavenStone..Emerald..EmpressStone..... .............White.......CloudStone..Aqua..MotherStone
Head....Blue......Water.Indigo......... ..MoonStone.....Silver.......LunarStone .......................Sapphire..AngelS tone..Purple.UniverseStone
Chest...Orange.Fire.....Orange......... SunStone........Gold........SolarStone. .......................Topaz.......DemonStone.Amber..StarStone
Belly ....Red.......Earth..Salmon Red..EarthStone......Ruby.......Emperor/TetrapolarStone..Black........HellStone......Rose...FatherStone