Author Topic: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;  (Read 27049 times)

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August 24, 2012, 04:02:09 PM
Reply #15

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I agree with Patanjali (#2) that this thread is of little use but to further personal agendas and segregate information to an extent that it is impossible for the outsider to know what is fact and what is fiction.

I therefore think the information here on veritas should be collated and presented as a sticky, after then allowing time for amendments and discussion be presented as some kind of ‘fact’ sticky that doesn’t allow comments.

Within this ‘fact sticky’ differentiation can be made between different types of attacks eg from psychological through placebo and on to metaphysical and demon. IMHO we should not be closed to such things because it is a part of Majick and to quote Akenu “By such practice he will hardly think you are a weirdo because he won't know you are actually causing something.” And Bubba “Even do it jokingly can have a subtle effect on their psyche. Mind magick folk, all those jedi mind tricks.”

Or to put it another way:
If you can believe that there is a hole in the top of your head which allows energy to move through why can’t you believe that marbles are fairy eggs? Classic! :eek:


We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

August 24, 2012, 07:14:56 PM
Reply #16

Hellblazer

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One man's delusion is another man's reality.

September 06, 2012, 06:15:30 AM
Reply #17

loveless

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A person that actually thinks there is a physical hole in their head that allows some kind of nondescript "energy" to flow through is just a lunatic as a "novelist" who thinks marbles are fairy eggs... And if someone is really being attacked, in any form, they usually know how to defend themselves. I mean, who the F expends energy to target an unworthy target? We have much better things to do, and even psychological attacks takes time and energy, and if it is happening over the internet you can just denounce the troll and ignore him.

And finally, a sticky like that would not be useful at all. Someone that can, by himself, differentiate between a psychological, placebo and "magical" attack will probably already have done so. It would only increase the paranoia of people that wrongly believes that they are already being attack while it is all in their delusional heads...
 
To quote ArcaTuthus:

Not to mention the fact that the most minimal effort put into actual practice everyday would make most "attacks" completely flaccid.

cheers.

September 06, 2012, 01:03:09 PM
Reply #18

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So it is all about belief i.e. I believe I am therefore I am. How about if I believe he is…? What about believing that you can alter a flame by thinking? How do you denote an unworthy target and have you considered an individuals need to test? How do you know it takes time and effort – what if it was as simple as just a thought with intent? What if shielding is just a myth to give confidence? Can you shield with ultimate confidence?

Just as Bubba said: one mans reality is another’s delusion? 
We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

September 07, 2012, 03:23:17 AM
Reply #19

loveless

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I'm sorry to say this, but your questions sounds like little more than philosophical wankery...

I never said belief does anything... and the only thing I "believe" it does is no other than maybe psychological or psychosomatic afflictions on those that, lead by paranoia (or even worse, actual illness), believes they are being attacked.

There is no "I believe I am therefore I am", that's crap... I think I already posted here how little I think of actual belief, but here is the gist: I think very, very, little of it. I don't think there should be much space for belief in a scientific endeavor such as magic, or even psionics, maybe the only use would be to form a kind of placebo effect, but then the belief should be so strong it is not belief anymore, but delusion or fanaticism. And though we can generate such mind state, it is my opinion (oh the lack of words kill me) that it is dangerous and mostly unnecessary, unless in specific circumstances, and even then it is a maybe.

Individuals who need to test against a "live" target are probably fluffies or psychopaths, the first one does shit, the second one is rare enough (and probably incapable of forming bonds that would allow one to metaphysically attack someone from afar, maybe even incapable of magic, though still dangerous with his words online, but nothing "magical")...

And even if it was simple as a thought with intent, why would someone capable of doing so go after a little nothing? And yes, shielding is a myth, I never said anything about shielding.

cheers.

September 07, 2012, 03:43:00 AM
Reply #20

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Why is it philosophical wankery?

You don’t believe and I do. I may not believe in the Harry Potter type magic or the need for complex words and gestures but I have seen and done enough to know that I can believe in it.

My baggage revolves around Christianity, what’s yours?
 
We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

September 07, 2012, 03:50:19 AM
Reply #21

loveless

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Because it takes nowhere.

And thank any god you don't "believe in the Harry Potter type magic"... I would've turned troll mode on if you did =X

My baggage comes from african-brazilian magic, though I always preferred a more european approach.

September 07, 2012, 04:45:02 AM
Reply #22

Akenu

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And thank any god you don't "believe in the Harry Potter type magic"... I would've turned troll mode on if you did =X
* Akenu casts Crucio

September 07, 2012, 09:02:46 AM
Reply #23

loveless

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I am fighting the urge to completely derail this topic and make it a HP roleplaying one :O

September 07, 2012, 06:32:31 PM
Reply #24

Steve

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Considering the topic is a year old and the people and events that the topic originally covered are quite past... maybe we could instead let it die? :) Or start a new thread with a clearer discussion topic/objective.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

September 07, 2012, 08:37:00 PM
Reply #25

Hellblazer

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The thing about belief is that it's nothing without proof/results. You can believe that you can put out a candle flame with your thoughts, but if you never make the effort that belief is false. You must actualize your belief. When belief is reinforced through results it becomes a concrete, a part of you. Like the hexing mind trick. You give them something physical to establish their belief that their cursed. Similar to telling someone their cursed every time something bad happens to them. Their actions reinforce the thought of being cursed.

October 10, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
Reply #26

MikeWho

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I would like to mention that there has been a regular theme of ignorance towards those whom are actually under attack. Generally, if you are under attack, those whom have self-prescribed themselves qualified will often brush you off as overly imaginative or paranoid.

October 10, 2012, 02:21:03 PM
Reply #27

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I would like to mention that there has been a regular theme of ignorance towards those whom are actually under attack. Generally, if you are under attack, those whom have self-prescribed themselves qualified will often brush you off as overly imaginative or paranoid.

Most people I know who are qualified to defend against an attack and/or advise how to defend against an attack ask themselves one question when they hear someone else claim they are under attack:  "Why does the person think they are under attack?"  And it usually falls apart right there.  The vast majority of the time, the reason the person thinks they are under attack is not a sufficient justification for concluding an attack exists.  This is what you witness most of the time on these forums, which you are thinking is a dismissal.  But if the reasoning is faulty, then we have no reason to trust the conclusion that an attack exists.  This is not bias, or unjustified dismissal.  It is a reasoned analysis.

In the case that there IS a sufficient reason to suspect an attack might be happening, then it is worth exploring further.  While this is a significant minority of the cases, I have seen this very many times over the years.  The outcome, however, is that even when there is sufficient reason to suspect an attack might be happening, even the majority of THOSE times no real attack is going on.  (The most common source being that the person is actually causing their own problems.)  So even when there's sufficient reason to suspect an attack, experience shows that one should still avoid jumping to conclusions too rashly, and should proceed with a careful exploration of the explanations.  This is in fact an open-minded approach, when the problem we usually face in these interactions is that the person asking for help has already concluded that the attack is definitely real, and has closed their mind to the possibility that another explanation could be in play.

I've seen attacks.  They can actually happen.  Just like conspiracies are real and can happen.  But they're far more rare than the imaginative and/or paranoid people tend to think, so one must temper their assumptions about attacks with a careful assessment of their reasoning process, the evidence, and the situation.
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October 10, 2012, 05:24:08 PM
Reply #28

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As Kobok mention about attacks being rare, the reason for this is because those who can do real psychic damage are no longer in a place mentally to care about attacking someone. You'd have to really piss a metaphysicist off to get attacked. Most beginner level attack are watered down anyway. Leading to nothing more than a headache. Some "attacks" are not really attacks, just a curious psychic. I haven't been attacked by another person in almost two years.

October 10, 2012, 10:17:06 PM
Reply #29

Steve

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I would like to mention that there has been a regular theme of ignorance towards those whom are actually under attack. Generally, if you are under attack, those whom have self-prescribed themselves qualified will often brush you off as overly imaginative or paranoid.
Did you read the opening post (and the post that the opening post linked to)? This thread, and the prior thread, were not just about generic attacks. They were in response to a sort of "social event" that was occurring at the time, where certain people thought that the staff here at Veritas were psychically attacking them. Thus, the responses in this thread, at least, should be taken in the context of that year-ago set of events and beliefs about what was occurring (oh wow, that was only just last year. I thought it was longer ago than that).


Granted, I also do brush off a lot of generic claims of "I'm under attack" as a person being either psychologically or metaphysically self-destructive without realizing it, but since the majority of times the generic prescription for getting through either is the same for metaphysical attacks and for self-destruction (at least at the lower levels of ability where a person would still be capable of gaining access to help on their own), I've found it also doesn't matter whether I care or not about the difference between the two (I leave the caring to those who can/will lend a more direct hand to specific instances of real attack). So, that's my reasoning for why I brush off most claims of attack.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?