Author Topic: Absorbing energy from the sun  (Read 17654 times)

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May 23, 2011, 10:41:36 AM
Reply #30

Violet

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My humble opinion regarding energy "generation":
Some people "suck" the energy from outer sources, some "generate" it...
Physics for Elementary school say that you cannot generate energy from nothing, you only can transform it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
You are refering to physical energy. As has already been pointed out, metaphysical energy is not the same as physical energy, and the only good reason we are calling it energy is because it is - just like physical energy is the mechanism of physical change - the mechanism of metaphysical change. Also, allow me to quote from kobok's psi FAQ:
Quote from: Psi FAQ
The laws of quantum field theory tell us that energy can and DOES get created and destroyed all the time, but that it does so at such an equally matched rate that the end result is no net change. This means that in small areas and for small times, energy does get created and destroyed noticeably, and the effects of this are measureable.

The only thing keeping the conservation of energy balanced on the everyday macroscopic scale is probability. So long as the probabilities of creation and destruction are equal, there will not be any net creation or destruction. But one reasonable interpretation of abilities like micropsychokinesis might be that we possess the ability to manipulate probabilities. So there's no fundamental reason to think that psi is restricted to obeying the conservation of energy.

(Link to complete FAQ)

Now, couldn't it be that you are not generating energy by means of creating it from nothing, but you are generating energy by means of transforming it from external sources?
While this is a possibility, there is no reason to assume it to be true. There is zero evidence that suggests we need to gather metaphysical energy from external sources, therefore, limiting yourself by sticking to this view is impractical.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 11:16:40 AM by Robin »

May 23, 2011, 11:16:13 AM
Reply #31

Akenu

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@Robin: Thank you for smacking down my Karma, I returned the favor to you.
I am very sorry that quantum sciences are so much mystified on occult forums.

Quantum physics speak about probability.
According quantum physics nothing is impossible, it's possible, but probability it will happen is nearly zero.

To explain it I will put this example:
Probability that energy can be created or destroyed is about the same as your head will explode in 3 seconds, I will get raped by book I am currently reading and bottle of beer will swallow the moon all at the same time.
*waiting for the book to take action*

Now let's make a leap from explanation of quantum science and the probability to my subjective perception of reality.

My clairvoyance is nothing special, but it allows me to see energy at some degree. From that what I perceive I see and feel not so big difference between physical and metaphysical energy (not speaking about that I can use "metaphysical" energy as a fuel for my body.
If you don't believe me then you can scan me and share your results in this thread (just please don't speak, sometimes I am oversensitive to "metaphysical" sounds)

Back to karma:
I would be very happy if you stopped smacking it down with no purpose, I have noticed that my karma keeps lowering down when you are on-line.

May 23, 2011, 04:55:03 PM
Reply #32

Steve

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While I'm not XIII, I do think this is what he was suggesting, yes. I believe I have seen other practitioners of dynamic psi put forward a very similar idea, and thus I would not be surprised if generating metaphysical energy as opposed to gathering it is a very common thing. (EDIT: Ah, found something similar in kobok's FAQ, section 2.4) Regardless, you say you are not so keen on the idea of people being able to generate their own energy without needing outside sources, and then name a few physical analogies and state the hermetic law "as above, so below". Next, you put forward that the lack of personal evidence in your own life leads you to believe that we draw metaphysical energy from the outside. This, however, is incorrect reasoning, and is why it seems like a good idea to keep Occam's razor around. People need not give evidence that we do not need to draw metaphysical energy from outside sources, rather, we need a reason to believe these metaphysical energy sources are necessary. If no such reason can be found (as I believe to be the case), the only reason it is such a popular idea is - I think - because people think of physical analogies, and because the physical body needs food, drink and air, the soul surely needs something similar! Which seems like a good example of non sequitur to me, or a false analogy, if you will. It would be similar to saying that since physical energy cannot travel through time, so must metaphysical energy. Newsflash: metaphysical energy is not physical energy, nor does it necessarily have similar attributes. In fact, the only good reason for calling this metaphysical 'substance' energy, is because energy is what causes change, and metaphysical energy, too, can cause change. Also, the fact that you're not keen on an idea is hardly a valid argument. ;)

This does not mean that we do not draw metaphysical energy from outside sources. In all honesty, I consider it likely that people do draw energy from and affect the energy around them, simply by thinking about it, and, in a way, projecting mental images upon said energy. This does not mean, however, that using energy from the outside is a requirement for the soul to function properly.

Of course, this is merely my opinion. XIII (and everyone else, of course), if I have said anything that does not make sense, or have suggested you meant something that you didn't, feel free to correct me.
Firstly, the concept of humans generating energy rather than (or in addition to) gathering it is indeed a common idea. It has been around for a while, and thus I am not arguing with you or XIII on the issue, but on the issue itself, to be clear.

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Regardless, you say you are not so keen on the idea of people being able to generate their own energy without needing outside sources, and then name a few physical analogies and state the hermetic law "as above, so below". Next, you put forward that the lack of personal evidence in your own life leads you to believe that we draw metaphysical energy from the outside. This, however, is incorrect reasoning,
Is it? It seems pretty solid to me. Compare something we don't understand all of the rules about to something we understand better and of which is somewhat similar in nature. Then note that until a distinction is found, there should be no need to create a distinction. Thus, I am applying Occam's Razor by NOT making up new rules for psychic energy based on... ?

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People need not give evidence that we do not need to draw metaphysical energy from outside sources, rather, we need a reason to believe these metaphysical energy sources are necessary.
No, actually, either stipulation requires a good reason. My reasoning is that if psychic energy is akin to physical energy, and our spiritual bodies are akin to our physical bodies, then there would be some sort of process of accumulating energy from external sources, converting it to usable energy, and then giving off waste energy/byproducts as we utilize it. Why shouldn't I assume that our non-physical nature has similarities to our physical nature, until shown (not reasoned) otherwise?

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If no such reason can be found (as I believe to be the case), the only reason it is such a popular idea is - I think - because people think of physical analogies, and because the physical body needs food, drink and air, the soul surely needs something similar!
Actually, there are other reasons as well. 1) Energy drawing exercises are widely held to work as described. 2) Many people have expressed that they have become fatigued, even for days or weeks on end, due to metaphysical exercises. If the body generated itself back up, why would the fatigue last so long? 3) As someone else said, we do not live in a closed system; in all the world, you will be hard pressed to find a closed system where energy exchanges and conversions do NOT occur, as the "human generate their own energy" idea may hold (depending on who you talk to, which is why I asked for XIII's clarification if I was misunderstanding his intention).

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Which seems like a good example of non sequitur to me, or a false analogy, if you will.
While it may be a false analogy, it is not a non-sequitur. Whether it is a false analogy would be determined based on the factualness of the metaphysical system, rather than reasonings and arguments by any of us. However, I could very easily use an orange as an analogy of an apple and note similarities between the two while also noting differences. I care less about the arguments as to "why it might be this or that", as I've reasoned them all out myself long ago and noted that either way is possible, and more for the actual experiences any person could mention that bears relevance to the topic.

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Newsflash: metaphysical energy is not physical energy, nor does it necessarily have similar attributes.
Newsflash: An orange is not an apple, but they still have some similar qualities. It's also not the physical energy I was talking about so much as the physical system of the body for acquiring energy through conversion of consumed materials. It's quite possible that psi can be generated at the same time as physical energy via the consumption of the same physical materials. But is it so? Whether it's factually true or not is what I'm concerned with, and for that I'm looking once again for experiences moreso than arguments.

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Also, the fact that you're not keen on an idea is hardly a valid argument. ;)
I don't recall saying it was a valid argument. I just noted that I'm not keen on the idea, and I'm certainly allowed to be not keen on a concept.

So, now I pass the ball back to you: what evidences do you have to make the claim that the human body generates any metaphysical energy whatsoever? :) You can't just "default" to this position and demand that any other position must provide evidence while not supplying any of your own.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

May 23, 2011, 10:30:06 PM
Reply #33

Silver_Archer

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But Psi does NOT have similar properties to the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, electromagnetism or gravitation, which is the basis of all matter and energy in the universe as we know it.Occam's Razor recommends that you should not add more explanatory variables in your model of reality than are required to be added if doing so does not improve your predictive capabilities. However, I don't see how you can apply this principle to assume that Psi should not be capable of being generated because it is 'akin to physical energy'. In many important respects, psi acts are NOT akin to acts which involve physical energy. Therefore, it is in fact necessary to qualify the assumption that Psi cannot be created or destroyed; it is not merely something we can take for granted.
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May 23, 2011, 10:51:31 PM
Reply #34

Akenu

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First of all, I am sorry if I say some non-sense now, I just woke up...

We commonly gather physical energy from our environment and from food. Process of sleep could be considered as a mere tool for lowering down unneeded functions so you gather energy faster (that is why I have similar results with meditation as with sleep).

Just basically gathering energy = transforming it. Generator commonly works this way:
1) you pull handle which gives some kinetical energy to the generator
2) this energy is enough to start the engine
3) engine maintains its functionality while also "generating" some energy to spare
4) engine needs fuel so it can "generate" the energy.

Now, whatever "waste" the energy could be considered as the engine and that "wasted" energy could be used.
I guess you don't generate metaphysical energy with no need of physical energy because just the idea itself uses the energy.

I am not very sure if this post helps something, but I am pretty sure that the discussion will be pretty interesting :-)

May 24, 2011, 01:39:10 AM
Reply #35

Searching

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But Psi does NOT have similar properties to the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, electromagnetism or gravitation

Though if you look at Einstein's work, there is strong motivation to remove "gravitation" from that little list of forces- so even our understanding of those four forces is subject to change. Or, perhaps more correctly stated- our knowledge of them is never really set in stone.

I, for one, am not forming my argument on the basis that psi is like anything else, so I won't comment further on that issue.

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Occam's Razor recommends that you should not add more explanatory variables in your model of reality than are required to be added if doing so does not improve your predictive capabilities.

In which case it would make MORE sense to just assume that all psi events make use of energy that is already there- in other words, the ambient energy surrounding the psion. Or, if I haven't made it clear enough- absorbing energy from external sources.

Coming up with some process by which a psion would spontaneously generate energy would unnecessarily complicate the system. There is already energy present in the system, a psion uses will to manipulate (which involves the process of gathering) that energy.

Furthermore, the process of using energy that is already present, as opposed to the spontaneously generation of energy, actually extends BEYOND psi, in the areas that Steve has already done a fine job of pointing out. So in that sense, it provides a framework by which we can understand and predict MORE things, INCLUDING psi. Which would up its scientific weight.

It's not because "psi is like physical energy". It's because working with energy that is already present is how every other observed system works- why would you suddenly change it? And while you could look at a really tiny quantum level and see that things are being created and destroyed all the time, on the macro level, the level at which most of us, I would argue, perceive and function in our lives, our perception is that it's a relatively stable mass of energy that is being worked with. Especially because a generation of energy on the scale that it could be worked with would have to overcome the simultaneous and equal destruction which keeps everything in balance. And there would have to be a new process to explain that, as well as to predict what, if anything, could happen should there be an imbalance because one psion has generated too much energy!

So I would put forward that Occam's Razor actually SUPPORTS the notion that a psion draws energy from external sources. And it'd be the spontaneously generated psi theory that would have to fight to hold some ground.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 01:46:50 AM by Searching »
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May 24, 2011, 03:11:50 AM
Reply #36

Violet

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In which case it would make MORE sense to just assume that all psi events make use of energy that is already there- in other words, the ambient energy surrounding the psion. Or, if I haven't made it clear enough- absorbing energy from external sources.
Not exactly. Because in this case, you are defining an extra entity "external power source", which does not appear to be necessary. However, it appears that the argument is turning into a more philosophical one, whether we call it energy generated by the psion, or ambient energy gathered from 'all around' the psion, ultimately doesn't matter. My personal preference, however, goes toward the first option, as the second option seems to suggest that metaphysical energy is a limited resource - which would, again, only be a way of putting impractical limits on your own paradigm.\

Coming up with some process by which a psion would spontaneously generate energy would unnecessarily complicate the system. There is already energy present in the system, a psion uses will to manipulate (which involves the process of gathering) that energy.
This process of generating energy is no more complicating the system than coming up with a process to gather energy from elsewhere. In fact, I would argue that it is even less complicated. In both views, the psion is using his or her soul to get psi energy. In the gathering-view, however, one needs to come up with external power sources, whereas this is unnecessary in the generating-view. As there is to be no evidence of metaphysical energy needing to come from somewhere, and if we are to apply Occam's razor, we have to choose the first. This may seem strange, because we are all trained to think about energy as something that is conserved and that one cannot spontaneously generate energy, but note that this is a belief concerning physical energy, not its metaphysical counterpart.

So, now I pass the ball back to you: what evidences do you have to make the claim that the human body generates any metaphysical energy whatsoever?
We seem to be at a misunderstanding here. Why would the human body need to generate metaphysical energy? I never claimed any such thing, I claimed that the soul could generate energy, which is different. However, my reasoning for claiming that the soul can generate physical energy is actually quite simple: Psi abilities have been proven to exist, and these same abilities have been proven not to be due to physical actions or entities. This means that there must be a metaphysical entitiy that either directly controls or influences effects generated by psi. Also, psi abilities can have a definite effect on physical materials, and for something to have an effect on physical materials, it needs physical energy. When using psi energy, one does not necessarily need to use external energy to create a physical effect.[1] Therefore, psi can generate physical energy. Note that I did not talk about any specific metaphysical substance - talking about specific properties of metaphysical energy appears to be a rather useless endeavor. Now, if metaphysical energy would be analogous to physical energy in that is the fuel for change (metaphysical change, that is), a psion would be able generate metaphysical energy in much the same way as he (or she) would be able to generate physical energy. I did not specify a process that explains how exactly the psion can generate physical or metaphysical energy. And the simple truth is, I don't really know how it works. However, neither do I think someone can explain exactly how the process of gathering metaphysical energy works - all we know is that it appears to be working if we look at its effects. This does not mean, however, that neither is practical. I am repeating myself, but I'll say it again: since there is no evidence that psi abilities require external energy to work, why assume?

[1] Two things need to be said here. There is, of course, the slight possibility that psi is draining physical energy from a physical star far, far away to fuel the abilities. However, there seems to be no indication that this is indeed the case, which makes assuming that external energy is involved unnecessary and discardable when we use Occam's razor. Next, we all know that exercises that focus on drawing metaphysical energy work, and that people can become tired of working with metaphysical energies. This does not appear to be a natural law, however, as many people are doing just fine generating metaphysical energy and working with loads of energy (with externally verifiable results!) without ever getting tired. Personally, I think the most likely thing that's happening here is that because people are thinking a lack of metaphysical energy (or an 'overload' of the same energy) will make them tired or ill, they will get tired or ill when working with said energies. I remember kobok using an example of a qigong master who told his students never to practice qigong while ill, because drawing qi while ill would worsen the illness - this appears to be a good case someone projecting his view of how the world should work on the normally-very-neutral metaphysical energies he could be working with.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 03:18:19 AM by Robin »

May 24, 2011, 03:51:54 AM
Reply #37

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Not exactly. Because in this case, you are defining an extra entity "external power source", which does not appear to be necessary.

I am considering the whole universe to be a vibrating mass of energy- the only difference between one thing and another is its vibration and configuration. Humans are configured in a certain way. Tables in another. Earth in another. The sun in another. While these things have their own form, they can be manipulated. A trained psion, in this instance, can manipulate it to a very fine degree. There is not, in my model, an "external power source" per se- it is just one other manifestation of the fluid continuum universe in which an individual exists.

Why bring something new into the system which is already made up of energy? If we are to abide by Occam's Razor, as has been mentioned, then I see no reason to. Unless someone cares to enlighten me.

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as the second option seems to suggest that metaphysical energy is a limited resource - which would, again, only be a way of putting impractical limits on your own paradigm.

Which is, and sorry if this seems to be too blunt, a personal preference rather than a logically reached conclusion. One possibility makes you feel more uncomfortable, so you choose the other, the only real reason being that the other one makes you feel better. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with that. It just... isn't conducive to the conversation thus far  :P We can each just pick whatever model we want and then not have any real foundation to discuss, because it boils down to what makes us feel more comfortable.

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This process of generating energy is no more complicating the system than coming up with a process to gather energy from elsewhere.

Except that the change, transfer, storing, releasing, etc of energy occurs already in ALL levels of the model. It is already present. Remember, it's not just about complication or simplicity, it is about avoiding needless complexity, and avoiding simplifying to the extent that you remove what is necessary. If energy is already present in a system which is made up entirely of energy in different configurations, then it makes far more sense (by Occam's Razor) that you work with the energy already present, rather than introducing new energy willy nilly.

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In the gathering-view, however, one needs to come up with external power sources,

In a universe made with energy, EVERYTHING is a power source. They are already there to be factored in. Different ways that energy is processed- storing, releasing, transforming (increasing or decreasing in vibration frequency) can occur with psi energy, physical energy, mental energy. I'm not arguing, to reiterate, that psi energy is like physical energy. I am saying that, again, if you want to go by Occam's Razor (and if you don't, that's fine), energetic processes explain what goes in MANY different areas, INCLUDING psi. And being able to account for several things in as simple a way as possible is one hallmark of a good scientific theory.

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whereas this is unnecessary in the generating-view.

Except in the generating view you are left with many lingering questions:

Where does the energy come from?

How does the psion control energy foreign to the system?

How does an influx of this energy affect the system?

Can energy be destroyed in similar fashion? What happens if all the energy is removed?

With the Energetic Process model, you've got a way of explaining how energy can act upon other energy to change that energy, in a balanced system.

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As there is to be no evidence of metaphysical energy needing to come from somewhere, and if we are to apply Occam's razor, we have to choose the first.

I'm note so sure on your logic behind this one. Just because we don't know that metaphysical energy has to come from somewhere, doesn't mean that we can then generate it from nowhere. As an analogy- young children don't know where babies come from (having no evidence that babies need to come from anywhere), but that does not mean that they can accurately surmise that babies can just pop into existence, or, further yet, that they themselves can generate babies! They can, however, safely observe and predict how babies that are already in existence behave and interact.

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This may seem strange, because we are all trained to think about energy as something that is conserved and that one cannot spontaneously generate energy, but note that this is a belief concerning physical energy, not its metaphysical counterpart.

It is an unnecessary complication to assume that metaphysical energy behaves different unless observed otherwise. Now Silver Archer said this:

In many important respects, psi acts are NOT akin to acts which involve physical energy.

And with further elaboration, it may be concluded that there are aspects of it in which it differs, but I hazard a very reserved guess that these are differences in the manipulation of the energy, not in the generation of it.

And again I must reiterate: just because we don't know how something came into being, we do not then have carte blanche to invent whatever rules we want for how the thing behaves.
"For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was." - Captain Barbossa, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

May 24, 2011, 04:41:50 PM
Reply #38

Steve

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But Psi does NOT have similar properties to the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, electromagnetism or gravitation, which is the basis of all matter and energy in the universe as we know it.Occam's Razor recommends that you should not add more explanatory variables in your model of reality than are required to be added if doing so does not improve your predictive capabilities. However, I don't see how you can apply this principle to assume that Psi should not be capable of being generated because it is 'akin to physical energy'. In many important respects, psi acts are NOT akin to acts which involve physical energy. Therefore, it is in fact necessary to qualify the assumption that Psi cannot be created or destroyed; it is not merely something we can take for granted.
Okay then, let me restart this whole thing again. (I've made this post immediately after reading Vivi's quoted post, so I'm reading the other replies now.) XIII posted the concept that energy can be generated. I disagreed and wanted to know why he thought it could be. I posted an alternate explanation as a means of saying "see, it could be something else" rather than saying "it's this instead". Then other people got all uppity and decided I needed to defend the idea that Psi needs to be taken in from external sources. (Throughout this thread, I've been using Psi to denote energy as that was the original concept)

No. I can find just as many faults as anyone else can with the "energy drawing" models. My purpose here is not to promote that model.

I'm waiting on someone else to clarify the position that Psi Energy can be generated, as opposed to ANYTHING else. Is that more clear?

-----------
Replying to the rest of the posts here:
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We seem to be at a misunderstanding here. Why would the human body need to generate metaphysical energy?
Because XIII posted that exact concept. And I'm questioning it. So ask XIII or someone else.

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I never claimed any such thing, I claimed that the soul could generate energy, which is different.
... that falls within the same problem that I'm asking about. How do you know you're generating it by any means whatsoever via any portion of your existence?

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However, my reasoning for claiming that the soul can generate physical energy is actually quite simple: Psi abilities have been proven to exist, and these same abilities have been proven not to be due to physical actions or entities.
That's... great... "Psi exists, therefore whatever I want to believe is true". Gotcha. I'll agree with 1) "Psi abilities have been proven to exist" and 2) "and these same abilities have been proven not to be due to physical actions or entities" (for the sake of this thread). I don't see that as necessitating your conclusion, however. (And in case you're wondering, I did read through to the end before snipping the first couple of sentences of your logic)

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Also, psi abilities can have a definite effect on physical materials, and for something to have an effect on physical materials, it needs physical energy.
Why does something need physical energy to affect physical materials? We know that Psi, being a non-corporeal substance/force/whatever, definitively affects physical objects. Why do we need to necessitate that there has to be a physical aspect to Psi so that it can interact with physical objects? Why not just agree that non-physical substances can interact with physical substances, much like how solids can interact with liquids and how forces can interact with physical objects?

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When using psi energy, one does not necessarily need to use external energy to create a physical effect.[1]
I'll agree to this on the caveat that "external energy" becomes "internal energy" when drawn in. At that point, it doesn't matter whether the energy is drawn or generated, but the original comment that sparked my response has to do with stuff that occurs before the energy is used; namely, the exact question of whether energy can be generated by a human being in order to be used.

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Now, if metaphysical energy would be analogous to physical energy in that is the fuel for change (metaphysical change, that is), a psion would be able generate metaphysical energy in much the same way as he (or she) would be able to generate physical energy.
And back we go to square one. I was hoping XIII could clarify his comment a little on what he meant to say and why he expressed that view. If he meant exactly that energy being "generated" is done so by being "converted", then whatever. If he meant that humans just spontaneously create Psi, then I'd ask for further clarification on why he thinks so; specifically, I'd be more interested in experiences he's had to lead him towards that conclusion rather than this whole mess of reasoning, rationalizing, and arguing that we're all doing here.

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I am repeating myself, but I'll say it again: since there is no evidence that psi abilities require external energy to work, why assume?
Because that's not what I said.

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Personally, I think the most likely thing that's happening here is that because people are thinking a lack of metaphysical energy (or an 'overload' of the same energy) will make them tired or ill, they will get tired or ill when working with said energies.
No. This is the same concept that another guy once tried to shove down my throat, and that I'd already firmly and thoroughly disproven, in the topic of exercise, that "the mind gives up before the body does". I used to push my body to the point where the muscles physically could no longer lift my body off of the ground and that was when I rested. It was not because I got all bogged down in thinking I couldn't get my muscles to work; it's because they were so torn up that they physically had no capability to do that kind of work at that time. In the same sense here, the times when I became tired the quickest and most notably was when I was in the middle of various attempts to control the actions of other human beings; they continued following my commands until my mind grew weak and that's when they started doing things other than what I was directing them to do (which is why it took so long for me to confirm that I was actually the one responsible for their actions, when I finally decided to "let go" before my mind tired and noted their reaction).

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I remember kobok using an example of a qigong master who told his students never to practice qigong while ill, because drawing qi while ill would worsen the illness - this appears to be a good case someone projecting his view of how the world should work on the normally-very-neutral metaphysical energies he could be working with.
Well, I disagree with that Qi-Gong master. I have done energy drawings while ill and while generic energy drawings didn't seem to affect my illness one way or the other, when I specifically focused on purifying and healthy energy then my conditions, both the symptoms and the problems, typically noticeably got better. And other times that I tried doing metaphysical feats of any sort while ill, whether energy drawing or otherwise, ended up with me going into a worse condition when I fatigued myself even more. I've seen all ends of that spectrum.

~Steve
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 05:27:49 PM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

May 24, 2011, 06:31:44 PM
Reply #39

mystic

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I wasn't talking about physical energy, come on. :P I'm not saying you shouldn't get a healthy dose of sunlight, I'm saying that your body can generate the required energy easier than getting it from an outside source. Vitamins is good.

Your body cannot generate it's own energy without external sources - human beings are not a "closed system".

We exist as part of a larger whole. This connection to something larger than ourselves is what allows us to survive - without it we would cease to exist.

I'm not talking in terms of "physical" or "spiritual" because I see no difference in between the two. In my mind the physical and spiritual are one and the same.

Train Hard,
Josh Skinner

Couldn't have said it better myself. Actually that completely sums up so much... Listen to Josh on this one..
Yes there are some gongs that use the sun as a source. There are also gongs and forms of breathing in which you are constantly drawing energy (in fact it is a little higher level ability), however, what's the point when we negate some common physical laws?

Spiritual, physical, goodness are we forgetting about the transformations of energy? Shall we consult some alchemy and I ching? I assume we can google either and find a plethora of information on both with regards to the transformation energy undergoes throughout life and how it correlates physically and spiritually. But as far as goal of absorbing energy from the sun, listen to Josh.

God Bless

May 29, 2011, 05:31:09 AM
Reply #40

Aunt Clair

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Sun and Moon energies have been harnessed for magickal pathworkings since ancient times. In Alchemy for example the guardian angel is also called the Lunar Angel and the Lesser Work of the Moon or Opus Minus. The Higher Self is also called the Solar Angel and the Great Work of the Sun or Magnum Opus .

Sunrise and Sunset are powerful times to sit and bask in the sun without worrying about harmful uv burns. Laying on the beach helps to radiate the sun back to the skin like a lizard on a rock the meditative visions are powerful.

The full moon poses no risks and bathing in the full moon naked upon a float in the pool charges up the magician powerfully never failing to incite a kundalini event. More modest magicians or those who live in colder climes can sit beneath the full moon especially when it is directly overhead and bathe in it during meditative trance

The perineum is naturally influent and it can absorb energy from Mother Earth but it is more limited to absorb solar and lunar energies. These are best drawn in through the breath, the skin and importantly through the solar plexus on the chest and through the alpha os above the head.

The body naturally absorbs the energy of the sun and the moon but when the magician sits in trance they may open the antakarana or vortex above the skull to draw light into the spine. This is easier to do over time with practice the magician learns to inhale energy and pull it down into the body with the breath with will , visualisation and intent.
.......~*~Love, Light & Laughter~*~
~*~Meditation & Mysticism is Magick!~*~