Focal Meditation

[Violet]

You don't look at a candle and meditate because its easy to concentrate on.

You do. Though perhaps even more important is that the candle flame is one of the best kinesis targets for a beginner.

It appears to me you haven't read the article. Let me show you: "The most basic focal meditation is simply to select an object and stare at that object, focusing all of your thoughts and awareness on that object.  Any object will do for this; it can be as simple as a spot on the wall or a dot drawn on paper.  The best objects to select are the ones which help to draw your attention.  One example of an object which does this for many people would be a crystal.  However, the best object for focal meditation in psi seems to be the candle flame."

If you tried it, you would have noticed how your eyes hurt after some time.

If your eyes hurt, you're sitting too close to the candle. Also, you should focus with your mind, not your eyes. Kobok has already said this here and here.

The purpose of looking at the flame is to blah blah blah

No, it's not. Kobok posted this article and described a specific psi meditation technique that involves focusing on a candle flame. It is just silly to walk in here and pretend that the purpose of this exercise is different from what kobok - the person who thought of the exercise in the first place - wrote about it. If you use a different technique to achieve whatever you want to achieve, that's fine. But please don't pretend, not even to yourself, that people practice the same thing you do just because you want them to.

[Mammon]

ill have to disagree with you on one point... don't let yourself fool you.... in my opinion, your reality is what you believe....if you believe something through to your bones...to you ABSOLUTE core then nothing is impossible... it just takes time to train yourself out of what society has already trained you to believe and whats taught when your a child and reinforced through years of teachings and thoughts that such things are not possible... but if you train yourself to believe and you overcome your childhood teachings then nothing if outside of your grasp... but thats just my opnion...

[Violet]

Ok then, let me ask you this. Did you achieve any deep meditation states through this?

Yes. I achieved the deep meditation state described in this article. I did not achieve deep meditation as described by you. I repeat, that was not the purpose of this exercise.

And also you should know that kobok wasn't the one who thought up this exercise. This is written in buddhist scriptures long long time ago. He got the general idea, i'm just blah blah blah again

Let me give you a hypothetical example. Suppose I were the first person to think of basketball and was playing it with a couple of friends. Now, netball has a different set of rules, primary among them that you're not allowed to move when holding the ball and you're only allowed to be on certain areas of the court depending on your playing position. Therefore, someone who plays netball and has not heard of basketball will probably see this and tell us "well, you're getting the general idea, but you should do it more like this; also, it's dangerous when you're all running on the court like that!". A reaction like that is understandable. However, when the basketball players clarify that they're, in fact, not playing netball and using a different set of rules, the netball player should shut up about his game. When someone's playing a different game, it's stupid to complain that they're not following the same rules. And when compared to your buddhistic meditation, dynamic psi is a very different game.

I did not say that kobok was the first person ever to think of meditation with a focal point. That's obviously untrue. What I did say was that "focal meditation" is a specific psi technique kobok thought of. What this means is that, sure, there are plenty of meditation techniques, and no doubt many of them are very similar; Kobok's article, however, was made with the practice of psi in mind. This is why I'm 'hanging on to every word of this kobok person' in this thread, it's relevant! These buddhist techniques are not. You can't just walk in on someone who practices a different paradigm, and tell them they've 'got the general idea' of your paradigm.

[Violet]

There are no different games..Its the same game, same arena..

When there are different rules and different goals, how can you keep saying it's the same game?

Obviously there are certain rules that apply to all games. I never said there weren't. You, however, seem to think that all games must necessarily use all the same rules; that whenever a game doesn't use your set of rules, people are doing it 'wrong'. If this is what you think, I invite you to explain why there are so many different metaphysical paradigms.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that I do not want to try out your paradigm. This has nothing to do with what's being discussed in this thread. As a matter of fact, I have some years of experience with more mystical forms of meditation, and the meditation you described is no exception. I would not presume to be a master of any such technique, but neither am I a stranger to it. However, this thread isn't about any of that. This thread is about focal meditation, a psi technique. Therefore, we won't discuss my willing- or unwillingness to participate in other paradigms in this thread.

Last but not least, your post has some logical issues. At first you say that there are no different games, yet later on in your post you say 'your reality is what you believe'. The underlying problem here is that the latter implies that everything is subjective (even though that statement is in itself an assertion of objectivity, but we'll ignore that for a moment), even though you just said that there are no different games - which implies objectivity.

(You can easily contact kobok via PM, by the way.)

[kobok]

If you don't believe me, ask kobok yourself where he got this exercise from.

I made it up, based almost entirely on my own self-discoveries from staring at candle flames.  Just, I was not the first person to come up with a meditation exercise involving a candle flame, and I will not be the last person to do so.  It is such a potent approach that it is regularly rediscovered.

Meditation was originated in india

I highly doubt that.  I suspect meditation predates the presence of our species in India.  I think you'd have a hard time finding a culture from anywhere on the planet that doesn't have some form of meditation in it.  The form you have learned from Indian culture is just fine, but it is not the only functional approach.  The form I present here has been specifically tailored and tuned as a meditation approach ideal for learning psi, and it has worked well for this purpose for quite a lot of people so far.  Perhaps there is a superior approach, and if there is I'd like to see it, but I've been doing this for a while in the presence of the excellent information exchange which is the internet and I haven't seen a more ideal approach yet.

I've spent a lot of time practicing breathing meditations as well (which I also suspect predate human presence in India, as they are also very easy to rediscover).  They have good value, and you may find I've recommended people give them a try several times on the forums.  Focal meditation on the candle flame simply has specific advantages in terms of its excellent and smooth transition into kinesis practice, where the feedback provided by the flame provides a way to focus not just the mind, but the specifically identified soul.  This is of essential and critical value for well-controlled practice of psi, and it is why this article is structured in the way it is.

(EDIT - If the last few posts are confusing to follow, it is because the posts that this and the preceding several posts were replies to were deleted.  I am leaving the replies for the sake of completeness in responding to points raised.)

[Arkvoodle]

Apologies for "grave digging", but I have a question. I am rather afraid of getting retina burn from focusing on the light for so long. Would the 2 meter distance reduce/eliminate this?  Are the alternatives as effective as the candle meditation? Just wondering, of course. The candle does seem to be the most reliable and effective method, but your opinion on the others would be welcome.

[Violet]

Would the 2 meter distance reduce/eliminate this?

I haven't had the problem you described, so I suspect this would work. Just don't forget to blink. (You shouldn't focus on the control of your eyelids either, as the purpose of this exercise is to concentrate on the candle flame. Rather, don't try to keep your eyes open because you think you should.) As for other methods of meditation, I have tried a few others, and focal meditation works best for me. Your mileage may vary.

[Middelnil]

A really good article, indeed. All this knowledge is much appreciated, especially to a newer member like me.

I just have one question that I can't seem to answer myself. I tried it first with a piece of metal and found that it worked quite well. Same thing with a candle's flame.
But since I decided to start developing my brow chakra, I thought that I'd get two birds with one stone since for me brow chakra requires meditating and focusing on the area of the chakra. That being said, it went really well at first. I could focus really well on the area of the chakra, feel the chakra, I reached gnosis really easily, etc. Although now after a while I find that my focus slips... Perhaps I should simply meditate first for a while to calm down my mind and then start focusing.

So, to get to the actual question: is what I described above a form of focal meditation? After all I am focusing all my thoughts and mind on the area of the brow chakra.


Oh, I'm sorry for posting in the old thread, but rather than starting a new thread on the question about this and filling the forums with my "still-a-newbie" comments, I thought I'd post on this thread.

Yours,
Middelnil

[Merlin]

is what I described above a form of focal meditation? After all I am focusing all my thoughts and mind on the area of the brow chakra.

Yep, you can focus on whatever suits you best, whether that's an image, a concept, a point on your body, etc. Though some things like music may not work well.

[Middelnil]

Alrighty, good to know. Thanks

[SympOthetick]

I am coming to this topic a tad late, and I just discovered this site a week ago. So a bit excited to go through past topics and posts even if a bit daunting with there being so many but persistence and patience and all. Though I wish to express how I have approached meditation and see how it relates.

I have pinned down my "sitting practice" down to... open-awareness observation and closed-awareness observation. Open-awareness observation is akin to the Zen mindfulness practice. and Closed-awareness observation being akin to concentration practice. I prefer the term awareness in there because I have come to realize that awareness is what awakens the experience to be had, so to speak; and here awareness being the essence of our soul. Thus I find my "sitting practice" as working the soul, or soul-work. Open-awareness would lead to letting any experience to be experienced, where as Closed-awareness is holding the experience in the process of observation.

[P.O.S]

 Is the meditation need to be steady and regular?