Author Topic: Morphosephram - The Handbook of Shadows  (Read 24591 times)

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February 24, 2009, 03:58:47 PM
Reply #60

amorfati

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We are here to learn and debate.
I don't see how this hasn't been a debate.
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This whole society was based on open-mindedness, not picking (just as an example) psionics and saying magic was bullshit.
Does open-mindedness mindedness should never leave the bounds of reason. Ever.
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If he is taking it for a valid medical reason rather than to try and up his thinking for the occult his reasons for taking it are justified but not his promotion of it
It is a (somewhat) valid medical reason. Okay, I'm using it to up my thinking but under the guise of a medical reason.

For those who are proposing that this kind of tranformation is possible, what is the grounds for this reasoning?

If you don't have grounds for this and are just being "hopeful", then it is irrational (by definition) to say that you can transform into a wolf.

Cheers.
deos enim religuos accipimus, Caesares dedimos.

"If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." -Soren Kierkegaard.

February 24, 2009, 04:43:25 PM
Reply #61

amorfati

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We are here to learn and debate.
I don't see how this hasn't been a debate.
Quote
This whole society was based on open-mindedness, not picking (just as an example) psionics and saying magic was bullshit.
Does open-mindedness mindedness should never leave the bounds of reason. Ever.


Cheers.

being open minded often leaves the bounds of reason,
but being open minded should try to avoid leaving the bounds of good and being helpful
it leads to amazing places such as many fiction books that have strange and wild inventions
that fiction can lead to discovery

Science thought rockets capable of going to the moon were fiction at one point
That's called expanding reason; the people who designed rockets were open-minded, but not irrational. If being open minded leaves the bounds of reason, then being open-minded is irrational. Being "good and helpful" does nothing useful, it's just weak pity. Romantic notions lead to discovery through reason, irrational notions (until reason proves them rational) are worthless bollocks.
deos enim religuos accipimus, Caesares dedimos.

"If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." -Soren Kierkegaard.

February 24, 2009, 05:14:39 PM
Reply #62

amorfati

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quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrationality


Intentional Irrationality
Irrational is not always viewed as a negative. The Dada and Surrealist art movements, for example, embraced irrationality as a means to "reject reason and logic". Andre Breton, for example, argued for a rejection of pure logic and reason which are seen as responsible for many contemporary social problems [1].

In science fiction literature, the progress of pure rationality is viewed as a quality which may lead civilization ultimately toward a scientific future dependent on technology. Irrationality in this case, is a positive factor which helps to balance excessive reason.

In psychology, excessive rationality without creativity may be viewed as a form of self-control and protection. Certain problems, such as death and loss, may have no rational solution when they are being experienced. We may seek logical explanations for such events, when in fact the proper emotional response is grief. Irrationality is thus a means of freeing the mind toward purely imaginative solutions, to break out of historic patterns of dependence into new pattyerns that allow one to move on.

said better than me
You can't appeal to art and science fiction as an authority for an argument on metaphysics.
Your argument in no way addresses the question at hand. What makes you think that you can transform into a wolf besides romantic notions?

Also, you confuse "pure reasoning" and empirical reasoning.
deos enim religuos accipimus, Caesares dedimos.

"If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." -Soren Kierkegaard.

February 24, 2009, 05:32:28 PM
Reply #63

amorfati

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refer to my edit amofati

I never said I could transform
I said shapechaging has been a belief for a long time spiritually... in many cultures.. Im not planing on finding you links
Its not nice to insult belief which have been around longer than America without doing some study into it yourself...
have you spent time with a native american shaman?
do you realize they know things we don't? weither this is one of them or not I dont know but beliefs deserve respect
humanity learned things from the cultures in north and south America - research the calenders of the Mayan culture - research their building techs
lmao to give a modern day example my mother is a Doctor and has been for 40 years, she still trys to get her native american patients to teach her things as some of their herb lore (which hasn't been shared fully with anyone) is extremely advanced
I came into this thread mostly because of the way a conversation was handled. I am leaving this thread now
because it serves no use to stay, I have no knowledge to offer Canis
Well, come back when you've turned into a wolf. I don't care what's been a belief for a longtime; if it's irrational, it's irrational.
deos enim religuos accipimus, Caesares dedimos.

"If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." -Soren Kierkegaard.

February 24, 2009, 06:02:50 PM
Reply #64

Steve

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Amorfati: Where is your rationale to believe anything in metaphysics is possible? There is no rationale beyond "someone said it was possible" and "I witnessed/experienced it myself".

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

February 24, 2009, 06:35:19 PM
Reply #65

amorfati

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Amorfati: Where is your rationale to believe anything in metaphysics is possible? There is no rationale beyond "someone said it was possible" and "I witnessed/experienced it myself".

~Steve
Who said those two aren't credible sources subjective to reason? Jeez.

Bloody read Heidegger or Husserl and come back to me.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 06:38:57 PM by amorfati »
deos enim religuos accipimus, Caesares dedimos.

"If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." -Soren Kierkegaard.

February 24, 2009, 09:27:10 PM
Reply #66

Steve

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I will not read those peoples' works, as I can probably guess at what they thought anyway. In the end, their words are irrelevant in the face of reality: if something works, it doesn't matter how credible, silly, rationale, or anything else it is, it works. And the only real way to determine if something works is to continue trying until you make it work; there is no way to prove something is impossible to accomplish.

Furthermore, as I already said there are traditional beliefs about people "merging" with totem spirits, and even becoming animals due to it. So the concept isn't exactly out of fantasy novels or hollywood or anything such.

But this just drags back to the question: why flame him for believing something you don't?

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

February 24, 2009, 09:29:48 PM
Reply #67

amorfati

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I will not read those peoples' works, as I can probably guess at what they thought anyway. In the end, their words are irrelevant in the face of reality: if something works, it doesn't matter how credible, silly, rationale, or anything else it is, it works. And the only real way to determine if something works is to continue trying until you make it work; there is no way to prove something is impossible to accomplish.

Furthermore, as I already said there are traditional beliefs about people "merging" with totem spirits, and even becoming animals due to it. So the concept isn't exactly out of fantasy novels or hollywood or anything such.

But this just drags back to the question: why flame him for believing something you don't?

~Steve
It's a discussion, not an ACLU meeting.
deos enim religuos accipimus, Caesares dedimos.

"If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." -Soren Kierkegaard.

February 24, 2009, 11:39:57 PM
Reply #68

CanisLupusArctos

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You dont get it, this is a thread opened by me for exact the questions i put in my first post here. If you go back you will see that i did not start a discussion about the process to become a werewolf. I answered your questions, because the search of knowledge is a goal i can support, but then you started to flame, because you dont want to accept my beliefs.

I friendly ask you to leave this thread for a discussion or the answers it was opened, you told everyone your opinion, we understand your beliefings, but I will not change my mind. Because i feel the chance to reach my goal, its more than knowledge, its a deep feeling a strong belief. You can not change it, accept it!

February 25, 2009, 04:46:06 AM
Reply #69

Big Boss

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Amorfati, stop posting in this thread.

To the rest of you, thank you for becoming constructive. Carry on.
Join my Folding@Home team and do some good! #159490

Details at http://folding.stanford.edu/

February 25, 2009, 05:30:46 AM
Reply #70

Cheezee

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As for the spirit thing in itself, I would start with invocation, if you haven't done so yet :)

February 25, 2009, 07:32:49 AM
Reply #71

CanisLupusArctos

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Yes i did that a couple of times, i had some good results. When i perform a mirror meditation to look at my aura with the third eye i can see a golden wolf in it. It seems that even the LBRP did not change that, maybe its because the wolf spirit is no thread for me.

February 26, 2009, 05:35:36 PM
Reply #72

Dea

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Canis, i'm going to direct you to an article written by a member named Prophecy.

http://forums.vsociety.net/topic/9147.0

It may have some information on what you're looking for. It has a section that deals in theory with taking the qualities of something into yourself.

February 27, 2009, 12:29:06 AM
Reply #73

CanisLupusArctos

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Thanks a lot for this link, its very close to the information in the book and helped me a lot.

October 10, 2009, 12:06:56 AM
Reply #74

Puppy Love Barker

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Just found out about this book myself today and well im very likely going to buy it soon myself, and form what ive read so far and looking in here im very sure at least some of it is real most likely so heres hopeinig I can find my spirit animal, open my 3rd eye, and become an wolf/werewolf! ^^