Author Topic: The Practice of Yoga II: Raja Yoga  (Read 54322 times)

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October 24, 2008, 08:51:53 AM
Reply #30

Shadow_Dragon

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My initial problem with Pranayama was how long and boring it was at first, which of course, I am overcoming.
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. -Sun Tzu

When the Mind is clear and still, all things under Heaven fall into place. -Lao Tzu

Drink your cup alone, though it taste of blood and tears, and praise God for the gift of taste. -Almustafa

October 24, 2008, 05:04:37 PM
Reply #31

Veos

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    Nadi Sodhana can be achieved with Kriya Yoga, but outside of the Kriya and the Pranayama, there really isn't anything I know of that can effectively cause Nadi Sodhana in a decent amount of time.   
Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham

October 25, 2008, 12:50:03 AM
Reply #32

Shadow_Dragon

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Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. -Sun Tzu

When the Mind is clear and still, all things under Heaven fall into place. -Lao Tzu

Drink your cup alone, though it taste of blood and tears, and praise God for the gift of taste. -Almustafa

October 25, 2008, 02:33:23 AM
Reply #33

Veos

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Qi Qong doesn't work on the proper nadis for Nadi Sodhana.  Yoga is the only method I know of that has not only defined Nadi Sodhana, but also how to achieve it.  the lack of either of these in other methods hints that they don't experience it.  in Qi Qong, the energy circulations don't work on the proper nadis, and while being generally rejuvenating, I have never heard or experienced (I practiced qi qong for several years along with Tai chi) anything relating to what could be Nadi sodhana.  It is a very marked experience. 
Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham

October 25, 2008, 12:50:26 PM
Reply #34

Shadow_Dragon

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That's interesting, then. I guess one cannot avoid Pranayama if they want to see real progress.
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. -Sun Tzu

When the Mind is clear and still, all things under Heaven fall into place. -Lao Tzu

Drink your cup alone, though it taste of blood and tears, and praise God for the gift of taste. -Almustafa

February 10, 2009, 03:35:39 PM
Reply #35

michaelangelo

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veos! please help. i have pressure at the 3 points of agya chakra. i have seen the white star once and see blue bindu multiple times a day. i hear the OMkara sounds as well from jingles to avalanche/thundder. i meditate with my eyes open and listen to the pranava/omkar many hours a day, but theres the pressure for many months i cant get rid of. what does this mean? my agya chakra wants to open all the way? i am confused as i know pranava is audible light and the k energy is not light but bio-energy, they are two seperate things. which one to follow? light or energy? focus on pranava or where the pressure is to open the head better for relief? i feel really comfortable and peaceful when listening to pranava, still mind, the thoughts that arise dont affect me. it is effortless and so calming, but it never gets rid of the pressure. so idk what to do. i could use some advice
ty :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 03:43:26 PM by michaelangelo »

February 10, 2009, 10:00:23 PM
Reply #36

Hech

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Just to throw this out there... I'm pretty sure that hearing thunder is the sound of the onset of Samadhi.

I could have my information wrong, but if not, something doesn't seem quite right.

February 11, 2009, 11:46:46 AM
Reply #37

michaelangelo

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each sound is a minor state of samadhi. in the unpanishads it says thunder is heard first and then more subtle sounds. but some swamis say thunder is heard last. i think it all depends if u are moving from gross to subtle or subtle to gross.  i practiced nada yoga for awhile then one day my brahmarandra and third eye started pulsing together, it felt like i was giving birth to something, much heat and sweat. then i saw the white star a few day later. i see some people with the same problem, when they start to see blue bindu, pressure/energy starts to go to the head. i guess it has no where else to go, it wants to get out and go out of brahmarandra i know it, but everytime i focus on my head more energy and pressure builds up, so it cant be pierced like that. so i just listen to the sounds and the pressure goes away but comes back when i come back to full body consciousness. i have also read somewhere that thunder is onset of savikalp samadhi, which is still minor and is a samadhi with form. real formless samadhi doesnt start until sahasrar, and at that point all sounds vanish.  here is a good link i found about samadhi, i guess there is 1 more sound after thunder that leads to full savikalp.

http://www.wholebeingexplorations.com/matrix/SpSt/samadhi.htm

so i am wondering if veos has helped people with this same probleM?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 12:13:49 PM by michaelangelo »

February 11, 2009, 07:37:05 PM
Reply #38

Prophecy

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Usually if there is pain in the Agya Chakra it is from practicing techniques given by different masters for too long, and/or by recieving initiation from more than one guru. 

February 11, 2009, 07:47:27 PM
Reply #39

michaelangelo

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theres never pain or headaches though, just pressure sometimes tingle sensations, i dont really ever focus on a specific part of the body or chakra.  when i meditate i forget about it and it goes away for the most part and when im out doing stuff moving around i dont feel it at all.

February 17, 2009, 02:38:10 PM
Reply #40

Jesse9209

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Veos in your opinion is yoga more efficient for spiritual liberation than Initiation Into Hermetics or not? They have the same goal(union with diety and spiritual development) they just go about it in different ways and IIH focuses more directly on the attainment of occult powers. I'm practicing both IIH with pranayama and japa. Just kind of curious.

February 17, 2009, 03:14:03 PM
Reply #41

Saer

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The question I asked Veos was similar to the one you have just asked and so I will quote his exact response. Hopefully it will give you insight.

   
Quote
Yoga is suited for humanity in general.  All human beings are capable of achieving Self-Realization with one of the many types of Yoga.  The yogi perfects the microcosm and is concerned only with Realizing God and helping the fellow man to do the same.  However, a self-Realized Yogi may not have even one Siddhi or occult ability.  Of all the people in the world suitable for the practice of yoga, maybe 5% are suitable for the practice of magic.  Most magicians have forgotten how to have Self-realization and its importance in practical magic, so they become one-sided sorcerers.  A person pursuing God may become amazed with the complexity of the universe, and thus wish to develop the appropriate tools (astral projection, mastery of the elements, clairvoyance, clairaudience, etc.) to study it and learn its great mysteries.  A God-Realized Yogi will have the consciousness of God and some Siddhis, but a God-Realized Magician will actually have the creative power of God in all spheres and even be worshiped as such by the various spiritual entities.  A Yogi who reaches God-Realization is in constant bliss and is liberated from the world and can stop his Sadhana.  A God-Realized magician knows he has only just begun his training, and will continue to develop all of the spiritual abiltiies until he completely rules all of the universes and masters the 22 tarot cards or pages in the book of Thoth (of which BArdon's books are the first 3).

     now there are generally differences of view between yogis and magicians, and that is because a Yogi considers a magician to be wasting his time developing siddhis instead of just following God, and the magician considers the Yogi as following an unbalanced system of development.  There should really be harmony of both.  A Yogi should also strive to perfect his control and understanding of the universe, and a magician should strive to expand and lift the consciousness so that he pursues and uses the occult faculties under the Divine Guidance of Self-realization.  In this way the magician will not go astray.

   So then once again, for most people Yoga is the way.  for some people, magic is the way, but magic should be pursued under the illuminated consciousness of constant yoga practice.  So then everyone can practice yoga safely and with benefit, but many magicians forget about consciousness and become debased sorcerers.  A magician without self-realization is not a magician at all.  He is a sorcerer.  A sorcerer is a human, a magician is a God.
As you love your own body, so regard everyone as equal to your own body. When the Supreme Experience supervenes, everyone's service is revealed as one's own service. Call it a bird, an insect, an animal or a man, call it by any name you please, one serves one's own Self in every one of them. ~ Ma

February 17, 2009, 06:06:42 PM
Reply #42

Jesse9209

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That is helpful thanks Saer. Though i'm curious what makes that 5% right for magic while for the other 95% its not.

So could someone say start out in yoga and reach self realization and then start training in magic in their next life time?

Veos you said that untill you reach a certain point in IIH you can and probably will fall back in development that won't follow you into another life. Is there a point like that in yoga or does every moment aid in development that lasts? Or did I just missunderstand or not remeber right what you said then?

February 17, 2009, 10:23:38 PM
Reply #43

Saer

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That is helpful thanks Saer. Though i'm curious what makes that 5% right for magic while for the other 95% its not.

So could someone say start out in yoga and reach self realization and then start training in magic in their next life time?

Veos you said that untill you reach a certain point in IIH you can and probably will fall back in development that won't follow you into another life. Is there a point like that in yoga or does every moment aid in development that lasts? Or did I just missunderstand or not remeber right what you said then?

Let us assume that Veos is only speaking of what has recently been deemed the "Divine Science" on these boards, and that which is often spoke of in Initiation Into Hermetics.

1.) The temperament of a person is perhaps the best indication of what a person will exceed at, and perhaps not do so well at. Passion is perhaps the one trait that is required for one to exceed in magic, or the "Divine Science". It is important. It is the passion that keeps the mind concentrated, the passion that keeps the mind upon higher ideals and the passion that brings the magician into greater understanding. It is the beginning catalyst for success in these fields. If it is not present, then true progression will not be had. The mind will be ultimately indecisive and confused. This is what I believe to be the difference between the 5% who are capable and the 95% who are not yet willing. This, too, is what I believe separates the God-realized from the Self-realized, the desire to know the universe entirely, without limits. I like to keep in mind that we are promised salvation, or liberation (self-realization) but not God-realization, and so one must work long and hard for such a consciousness.

I only have an inclination for the first question, the other two are better suited for someone else.
As you love your own body, so regard everyone as equal to your own body. When the Supreme Experience supervenes, everyone's service is revealed as one's own service. Call it a bird, an insect, an animal or a man, call it by any name you please, one serves one's own Self in every one of them. ~ Ma

February 18, 2009, 02:33:26 AM
Reply #44

Veos

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Magic is not a necessity, Yoga is.  The Occult powers and faculties are not near as important as Self-realization.  They can be trained by those with a definite will power alongside the evolution of consciousness, but the latter always takes the prize.  Bardon's IIH is more akin to Tantric Yoga then traditional western occultism. 

    Baron hints that many of the brothers in the White Brotherhood started out as Yogis or saints who had achieved self-realization, and then only later were they admitted to the Divine Arcana.  It can be done either way:  A Yogi can become a magician or vice versa.  It matters little as long as ultimately the soul reaches liberation, and yoga is the only means for that.  By yoga, I refer to system which "Yoga" (yokes or unites) the mind to God's consciousness.  The last 2 steps of IIH are Yoga, the first 8 are more or less magic.  In truth, a magician should begin his path with yoga and end it in Yoga.  There are always higher levels of consciousness to be attained.  even shiva, the god of Magic, still meditates in perpetual samadhi.  some sects believe it is because he is still trying to attain something even higher.  Yoga brings real peace.  Magic should be done by those who have the right composition for it, and the proper spiritual grounding.  Yoga only leads to joy, while magic can very easily lead to life of sorrow and pain. 

    Until the astral body is made immortal by certain alchemical and magical practices, it will always have to be retrained in every new life.  If the soul has reached a certain level of maturity it will retrain itself very quickly, but nontheless must still retrain.  the consciousness is different.  Thus the merits achieved through Yoga will retain across all lifes and will never fall back.  the merits attained in  magic are temporal, as the universe which they act in is temporal and illusory.  Most magicians will not retain their hard earned powers into the next life.  all Yogis will retain their consciousness.  A reincarnated magician may retain a glimpse of some past life abilities, but will need to retrain.  eeven a yogi will have to retain a little to wipe the dirt off the consciousness from descending through maya into a physical shell.  Still, magic should be practiced by those able tro affirm the position of man in the universe and experience its freedom. 

    Ultimately the choice is up to you.  No matter what you shoulkd do Yoga.  If then you decide to practice magic then there is a path of much trial and hardship in front of you, mixed with more temptation, but the fruits are indescribable.  Work hard to achieve liberation, and then train hard with the newly liberated consciousness to expand your abilty.   









Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham