Christian Hermetics

[Calvin]

Couldn't resist.

[Aunt Clair]

What about the 7 lamp chakras , the Silver Cord and the Tri Fold Flame in Ecclesiastes ?
Ezekiel and Daniel are among biblical forefathers gifted with mystic visions . Jacob saw angels and climbed his ladder to the heavens .The Christian apocalyptic Book of Revelation is clearly mystical. Exodus , Chronicles and Ecclesiastes record the kaballah , alchemy magick and visions .

You feel that it is possible to evoke demons but not Christ ??

And you feel that the Gnostic Gospels are never Christian ?
But  there are Christian , Jewish , Islamic gnostics etcetera
a quick search will prove that

Gnosis, Meditation, Mind,
www.gnostic-wisdom.org   

The Pearl...a Christian Gnostic website~A Christian Gnostic site that is dedicated to helping others to find the Pearl of Gnosis.
www.thepearl.org/

WHAT IS A GNOSTIC CHRISTIAN? Gnostic Christianity is a Way of Life based on the original teachings of Jesus Christ. A gnostic is a person who believes that ...
www.thepearl.org/What_is_Gnosticism.htm

Gnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But it kept the resemblance of Christianity for in nearly all the Gnostic systems Christ occupied a central place. Without its Christian element, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

Gnostics, Gnostic, & Gnosticism: Includes the gnostic gospels and information on gnostic Christianity and the religion of Gnosticism!
www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html

Selectsmart.com Are you a Modern Age Gnostic Christian? Religious Christian Gnosticism is a very misunderstood path even among Gnostics.
www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=christgnostic

What is Christian Gnosticism? How does modern Gnosticism compare with first century Gnosticism?
www.gotquestions.org/Christian-gnosticism.html

The Gnostic Jesus~An intelligible overview of Christian Gnosticism is presented by Meyer in addition to introductory essays that preface each selected text. ...
www.gnostic-jesus.com/

Christian Apocrypha and Early Christian Literature, in a vast collection of materials dealing with Gnosis and Gnosticism, both ancient and modern.
www.webcom.com/gnosis/library/cac.htm -

Gnosticism: ancient and modern~Gnosticism is a philosophical and religious movement which started in pre-Christian times. The name is derived from the Greek word "gnosis" which literally ...
www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic.htm

And that The Bilblical Emerald Tablet is false , why ? because I said so?
It is not a matter of opinion .Many books of the Bible point to Kaballah and Alchemy

ie Alchemie by Gottlieb Latz translated by Dennis William Hauck.
The origin of the Emerald Tablet has been traced as far back as the biblical Genesis, but most scholars attribute it to Hermes Trismegistus, ...
www.alchemylab.com/latz.htm

And the Kaballah isn't magick ? And its not in there either ?
Google that too . The Bible is a source of Kabballah,  the colours of the stones on the ephod are the colours of the sepiroth on the Tree of Life .

The Emerald Tablet~Kabbalah is an esoteric Jewish tradition rooted in mystical interpretations of the Hebrew bible. These interpretations are derived using Gematria- the ...
altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa042903a.htm

World Mysteries - Alchemy and Philosopher's Stone~The Emerald Tablet: Alchemy for Personal Transformation ... Books include: the Bible in English, Hebrew, Greek and Latin, the Qur'an in English and Arabic, ...
www.world-mysteries.com/awr_alchemy.htm

The Bible-Old Testament-Apocrypha: The Emerald Tablet of Hermes- Chapter 01.
one-faith-of-god.org/old_testament/apocrypha/hermes/hermes_0010.htm -


The 3 Magi brought gifts to Christ .Did you suppose they were camel salesmen ? They are magicians
they may be evoked and invoked too .

Magick is in the Bible ,

Christian Hermetics & Christian Alchemy exists .The Alchemy Site by Adam Mclean has a long list of famous ones.

Christ performed magick , he ;
exorcised demons
changed water into wine
walked on water
raised the dead
healed the infirm
had visions
interpreted dreams
prophecised


Christ can be evoked and invoked . The Eucharist is a ritual invocation to bring the body of Christ into us .
Ceremonial Magicians evoke and invoke Christ too .

Open the Bible and actually read it this time .  Or Google for the crib notes . Does not matter ....Magick is in there .

Don't beat the dead horse... Build a bridge instead and try to get over it

[IsApOs]

You have GOT to do better than giving WEBSITES as EVIDENCE. The internet is the single worst place to look for anything relating to metaphysics. Using Google as well as questionable literary mediums is not an effective way to prove your points to us. You tell Steve to read the bible (the irony in that almost everyone here has conceded him to be somewhat of an authority on it) yet you cannot use the bible itself to prove your points. Instead you relate to the gnostic gospels and the only relevance you garner to them is more websites. Give us quotes from the authors whose names you so constantly regurgitate to call yourself well-read.

[Steve]

Round 3: Fight!

What about the 7 lamp chakras , the Silver Cord and the Tri Fold Flame in Ecclesiastes ?
Ezekiel and Daniel are among biblical forefathers gifted with mystic visions . Jacob saw angels and climbed his ladder to the heavens .The Christian apocalyptic Book of Revelation is clearly mystical. Exodus , Chronicles and Ecclesiastes record the kaballah , alchemy magick and visions .

1) First of all, quote them. By quoting them you might see for yourself "what about" them.

2) Mystic visions given by God are not the same as visions/delusions that one achieves on their own.

3) Jacob did not climb the ladder.

4) The book of revelations is riddled with metaphor and metaphysical ideas, yes, but that doesn't mean your interpretations are right. For instance, in the previous post you quoted from Revelations 1 regarding the seven candlesticks:

Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

The  lamps or candlesticks have long been thought to be the 7 chakras . There is a golden mantle of honour that manifests clairvoyantly upon the beginning magician over his shoulders and breast .

And yet the book itself, at the end of the very same chapter, dictates exactly what the seven candlesticks are:

19"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[c] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

The seven candlesticks are NOT the seven chakras. If you would just read the bible instead of trying to write it, you would see how wrong you are on so many things.

And before you even try to say "the word churches also means chakras", read chapters 2 and 3 which outline letters given to each of the REAL WORLD churches. Look into history. Each of those churches listed really existed at the time; they were major gatherings of christians. Just because the number 7 appears in some fashion doesn't mean you get to jump the gun and say "OH! Seven is the number of chakras in the human body (in some metaphysical belief systems) so that means we're talking about chakras!"

5) I've argued with Isapos and Veos and Oriens regarding the supposed kabalism within the Torah (there is MYSTICISM, yes. but mysticism does not necessarily mean kabalism), and they did a hell of a lot better job of holding up their side then you have. And I still disagree with their interpretations.

And you feel that the Gnostic Gospels are never Christian ?
But  there are Christian , Jewish , Islamic gnostics etcetera

Oh my god, that is the same retarded illogic I heard years ago by a christian who was trying to "prove" that Dungeons and Dragons was evil. He said, more or less (it's been years, i can't quote verbatim) "there are people in jail who have done evil things and who have played dungeons and dragons. therefore dungeons and dragons makes people do evil things."

Just because some of Group A is also part of Group B, does not mean that Group B is Group A. That's like saying that because some guy goes to both Alcoholics Anonymous and Smokers Anonymous (pretend it's real, for the sake of argument) that Smokers Anonymous is the exact same thing as Alcoholics Anonymous.

YES, some Christians and Jews throughout history have also been gnostics. But Christianity is not Gnosticism. There's a big reason as to why they are two different words; most self-proclaimed christians don't even know what gnosticism is.

And that The Bilblical Emerald Tablet is false , why ? because I said so?

There is no "Biblical Emerald Tablet". There is simply "The Emerald Tablet".

It is not a matter of opinion .Many books of the Bible point to Kaballah and Alchemy

Many of the books of the bible contain metaphysical beliefs and supposed metaphysical experiences. But since Kaballah did not historically come about as a full-fledged system until a few centuries AFTER Jesus died, it's impossible to say that Jesus pointed to Kabalism. More likely, Kabalism did something that most systems that come after other systems do; the later system borrows from the earlier system.


Next. The bible FULLY establishes and acknowledges the existence of spiritual magical practices, astronomy, divinations, etc. But you originally claimed that Jesus taught people to do a certain list of things (the list that I am disputing specifically. Not the generic idea of mysticism within the bible), which you have failed to prove. Since you seem to have forgotten them, I will quote them again:

clairvoyant viewing  of angels , realms , teaching spirits
communication with spirit teachers        <---- other than the Holy Spirit
projection of higher self ,
projection to lower planes and reduction of negative ego
projection to higher planes
attunements and initiations in higher planes
cosmology of the human spirit
kundalini


~Steve

[Aunt Clair]

First of all, quote them. By quoting them you might see for yourself "what about" them.

I did quote it above , Steve and was pointing out that you had not replied to the proofs but rather emotionally attacked instead of logically debating , once more .

2) Mystic visions given by God are not the same as visions/delusions that one achieves on their own.

The visions a mystic recieves gnostically are from the Godhead . Visions can be from an aspect of self a guide or from Mahatma and angels . And your pompous attitude that the visions of others are deluded is because you have no connection to source yourself and have not opened your eyes clairvoyantly .

3) Jacob did not climb the ladder.

Jacob's Ladder is a metaphor of ascension and also a very real vision of the Stairway to heaven which many have seen historically and globally .Jacob ascended . Mohammed ascended in a merkabah as a chariot of fire with angels to the realms . Buddha taught about Shamvballah 2, 500 years ago . Christ  projected to the realm of Barbello .

4) The book of revelations is riddled with metaphor and metaphysical ideas, yes, but that doesn't mean your interpretations are right. For instance, in the previous post you quoted from Revelations 1 regarding the seven candlesticks:

Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

The garment down to the foot is the energy body of light the candlesticks are the chakras the 7 churches is an analogy the mystic may project into the chakras as into the sepiroth of the Tree of Life which adorns the energy body also at the eyes , shoulders , hips and down the spinal colurm through the stones as well .

The  lamps or candlesticks have long been thought to be the 7 chakras . There is a golden mantle of honour that manifests clairvoyantly upon the beginning magician over his shoulders and breast .

And yet the book itself, at the end of the very same chapter, dictates exactly what the seven candlesticks are:

19"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[c] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churchesThe seven candlesticks are NOT the seven chakras. If you would just read the bible instead of trying to write it,.

You are assuming ,  Steve , I have read the Bible and studied it in diverse study groups and I was certified as a catechist of the Catholic Church in the Archdiocese of Washington . I also studied the Koran and the Torah with Islamic and Jewish Scholars .

you would see how wrong you are on so many things.

There are many scholars who have done an excepted exegesis of these texts . You are not a theologian , a mystic or a clairvoyant . As such your opinion on the  interpretation of the Bible is basal and literal .

And before you even try to say "the word churches also means chakras", read chapters 2 and 3 which outline letters given to each of the REAL WORLD churches. Look into history. Each of those churches listed really existed at the time; they were major gatherings of christians. Just because the number 7 appears in some fashion doesn't mean you get to jump the gun and say "OH! Seven is the number of chakras in the human body (in some metaphysical belief systems) so that means we're talking about chakras!"

The realms are found in the microcosm and in the macrocosm . The realms can be attained on the body , in the body and out of the body . There are many more than 7 churches and temples in Shamballah . Another interpretation of these is 7 mansions .The coast of the River of Life includes a small white wooden chapel , the temple of 1000 roses , the Great Pyramid of Luxor , a sweat lodge , a cave of Gaia , and a Crystal Cathedral as well as diverse temples , kirks , tabernacles , synagogues of each pantheon of the Godhead .

5) I've argued with Isapos and Veos and Oriens regarding the supposed kabalism within the Torah (there is MYSTICISM, yes. but mysticism does not necessarily mean kabalism), and they did a hell of a lot better job of holding up their side then you have. And I still disagree with their interpretations.

This gladdens my heart that other metaphysicists  see the fallacy of your constrained and limited perspective on the Bible also . A Jewish Kaballahist will easily tell you that the stones on the ephod are the sepiroth of the Tree of Life , the colours of these jewels give the Hebrew interpretation of the Tree of Life .

Here is a good link to a parallel Bible if you search for almond tree you will find many descriptions of the 7 lampstands which are the chakras and the branches of the tree of life .http://bible.cc/exodus/28-4.htm
In Exodus , the ephod of the priest is jeweled with the fruits of the Tree of Life ,

the colours of the jewels are the colours of the Sepiroth .

The menorrah is a Tree of Life fashioned as instructed in Exodus

World trees are frequently depicted with birds in their branches, and their roots extending into earth or water (sometimes atop a "water-monster", symbolic of the underworld).The central world tree has also been interpreted as a representation of the band of the Milky Way.

 It is the fruit of a tree that confers immortality in the Jewish creation story. In Taoist tradition, it is a divine peach that gives the gift of immortality. In ancient Persia, the fruit of the haoma bears this essence. The apples of Idun give the Norse gods their powers, much like the Gods of the Greek pantheon and their reliance on Ambrosia.

This aspect of the tree as a giver of gifts and spiritual wisdom is also quite common. It is while meditating under a Bodhi tree that Buddha received his enlightenment; the Norse God Odin received the gift of language while suspended upside down in the World Ash (an interesting parallel is the hanged man of the tarot). In Judeo-Christian mythology, the Tree of heaven is the source of the primordial rivers that water the earth- similar to the Tooba Tree of the Koran, from whose roots spring milk, honey, and wine.

.... This tree and its gifts of immortality are not easy to discover. It is historically difficult to find, and almost invariably guarded. The tree of Life in the Jewish bible is guarded by a Seraph (an angel in the form of a fiery serpent) bearing a flaming sword. To steal the apples of knowledge, the Greek hero Hercules had to slay a many-headed dragon Ladon. In Mayan legends, it is a serpent in the roots that must be contended with. Similarly, the Naga, or divine serpent guards the Hindu Tree. The Serpent Nidhog lives under Ygdrassil, and gnaws at the roots.

The tree as the abode of the Gods is another feature common to many mythologies; in some, the tree itself is a God. The ancient Sumerian God Dammuzi was personified as a tree, as is the Hindu Brahman. The Byzantine World tree represents the omnipotence of the Christian god.

Imho , the serpent is kundalini ,the paths between the sephiroth are the pathworking of the aspirant through mystic visions in the realms and the tree is within each human and also in the planet itself . It will continue to expand as we do and is integral to our physical and spiritual energy body  .This is a partial  progression of the development of the energy centre in the palm of the hand as seen clairvoyantly

This is the almond tree over the chakras the squares represent stones or tan tiens and the 3D Kaballah .

And you feel that the Gnostic Gospels are never Christian ?
But  there are Christian , Jewish , Islamic gnostics etcetera

Oh my god, that is the same retarded illogic

Nonetheless , the fact that Christian Gnosticism exists refutes your unecessary disparagement and calling on God to swear is irreverent also .

What is Christian Gnosticism?~What is Christian Gnosticism? How does modern Gnosticism compare with first century Gnosticism?www.gotquestions.org/Christian-gnosticism.html

The Pearl...a Christian Gnostic website~A Christian Gnostic site that is dedicated to helping others to find the Pearl of Gnosis.
www.thepearl.org/

Questions and Answers about Gnostic Christianity~WHAT IS A GNOSTIC CHRISTIAN? Gnostic Christianity is a Way of Life based on the original teachings of Jesus Christ. A gnostic is a person who believes that ...
www.thepearl.org/What_is_Gnosticism.htm

Gnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the 3rd century, the Syrian writer and Christian Gnostic theologian Bar Daisan described his exchanges with the religious missions of holy men from India ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

Fathers of Christian Gnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia~Several figures are mentioned as founding figures of ancient Christian Gnosticism. The term Gnosticism is used by scholars with a wide variety of meanings ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_of_Christian_Gnosticism

The Gnostic Jesus~An intelligible overview of Christian Gnosticism is presented by Meyer in addition to introductory essays that preface each selected text. ...
www.gnostic-jesus.com/

And that The Bilblical Emerald Tablet is false , why ? because I said so?

There is no "Biblical Emerald Tablet". There is simply "The Emerald Tablet".

The Emerald Tablet~Kabbalah is an esoteric Jewish tradition rooted in mystical interpretations of the Hebrew bible. These interpretations are derived using Gematria- the ...
altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa042903a.htm

Jewish Alchemy: Cabala and the Alchemy of Light.
(The Biblical Emerald Tablet). 1: Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honor and majesty. ...
www.alchemylab.com/jewish_alchemy.htm

Many of the books of the bible contain metaphysical beliefs and supposed metaphysical experiences. But since Kaballah did not historically come about as a full-fledged system until a few centuries AFTER Jesus died, it's impossible to say that Jesus pointed to Kabalism. More likely, Kabalism did something that most systems that come after other systems do; the later system borrows from the earlier system.

That is incorrect , the Tree of Life is ancient and predated Abrahamic relgions but Jewish Mysticism is recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures ie in Exodus considered to be 1500 years before Christ lived .

Next. The bible FULLY establishes and acknowledges the existence of spiritual magical practices, astronomy, divinations, etc. But you originally claimed that Jesus taught people to do a certain list of things (the list that I am disputing specifically. Not the generic idea of mysticism within the bible), which you have failed to prove. Since you seem to have forgotten them, I will quote them again:

clairvoyant viewing  of angels , realms , teaching spirits
communication with spirit teachers        <---- other than the Holy Spirit
projection of higher self ,
projection to lower planes and reduction of negative ego
projection to higher planes
attunements and initiations in higher planes
cosmology of the human spirit
kundalini

The Tri fold flame is the Kundalini Ida Pingala and Sushumni , this is the yellow Father Sun and chest , the blue Mother Moon and head and the pink Son Earth and belly .

Christ has appeared to countless Mystics both Christian and otherwise teaching in the form called the Cosmic Christ  as part of the Mahatma through the Christ Consciousness .Some evidence of which is here :

Rosicrucian Fellowship - the Cosmic Christ and the Christ Within~A Wisdom Archive on Rosicrucian Fellowship - the Cosmic Christ and the Christ ... and were subsequently developed in other books, lectures and lessons. ...
www.experiencefestival.com/rosicrucian_fellowship_-_the_cosmic_christ_and_the_christ_within

Deepak Chopra writes about a 'cosmic Christ' : La Crosse Tribune~The third perspective — which Chopra calls “a cosmic Christ” — looks at Jesus as ... Fascination with Jesus’ life began during his lessons while attending a ...~www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2008/04/11/faith/01deepak.txt

The Thoroughly Modern Mysticism of Matthew Fox~According to Fox, any theology of the Cosmic Christ must be grounded in the ... Because the Cosmic Christ is rooted in the witness of the New Testament, ...www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=773

"cosmic christ" - Christianbook.com Search~Add Hildegard: Prophet of the Cosmic Christ to your cart · Add Hildegard: Prophet ... Leadership Gold: Lessons Learned from a Lifetime of Leading ..www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?Ntk=keywords&Ntt=%22cosmic+christ%22&action=Searc..


 Beyond this I cited specific apocrypha and Gnostic Gospels which you disregard . I reiterate since you have no ability to see , hear or evoke Christ at this time , you scoff upon a magick forum that it can not exist . Your puerile skepticism is ill concieved ,  irrelevant and unfounded .

[Kichara]

How could you know anything about Steve's abilities? You know him from a forum. This is a big reason you run into so much opposition. Steve has been here for years and has the reputation of knowing alot about the bible. You may be known elsewhere, but you came here and immediately expected everyone to accept your words as truths...it just doesn't work that way.

Perhaps you should work on gaining respectability here for a while before expecting us all to trust you. Write some articles for the site, stop using jargon about "open in protection deep cleanse breath crown to toes" and actually write about what opening in protection is and how to perform a deep cleanse breath.

Most importantly of all though is that you must seek to understand us before you can expect us to understand you. I would put more about that but I don't remember the chapter very well from 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.(I am rereading it now)

Namaste,
I hope this helps you fit in better here.

[Aunt Clair]

I refer to his own estimates of his lack of those abilities

I found this that I would like to add which was posted by Levite on Occult Forum regarding the naming of the sepiroth from Exodus .

"The enumeration of the Ten Sefirot mirror the Thirteen Attributes of God, which he revealed to Moshe in the theophany of Exodus 33:17-23/34:5-7. The Rabbis of the Talmud, when they were enumerating the Attributes of God from this passage, punctuated the passage for their own benefit by placing a period in the middle of 34:7, breaking it into two verses. 34:5-7, then, read thusly: "(5)And YHVH descended in cloud, and showed-himself-forth with him [Moshe] there, and he called out using the name YHVH. (6) And YHVH passed before him [Moshe] and he [God] cried: 'YHVH, YHVH, a God full of compassion and grace, slow to become angry, and great in loving-kindness and Truth; (7) giving forth loving-kindness to the thousandth remove, absolving sins-of-guilt, and sins-of-defiance, and sins-of-fault, to acquit....'" The Thirteen Attributes, then, and their Kabbalistic relationships, are as follows:
1) YHVH
2) YHVH (These two mentions of the Name represent different attributes of God, the first as Eternal and Ineffable, the second as Immanent and Omnipresent. They both relate as one to Keter)
3. El [a God] (relates to Tiferet)
4. Rachum [compassionate] (relates to Hod)
5. v'Chanun [and of grace] (relates to Yesod)
6. Erech Apayim [slow to anger] (relates to Din)
7. Rav Chesed [full of loving-kindess] (relates to Chesed)
8. v'Emet [and Truth] (relates to Gedulah)
9. Notzer Chesed l'Alafim [Giving forth loving-kindness to the thousandth remove] (relates to Gevurah)
10. Noseh Avon [absolving sins-of-guilt] (relates to Chochmah)
11. va-Fesha [and sins-of-defiance] (relates to Malchut)
12. v'Chata [and sins-of-fault] (relates to Binah)
13. ve-Nakeh [to acquit] (relates to Netzach)

[Kichara]

I refer to his own estimates of his lack of those abilities

Then why do you get angry at us for doing the same with you?

Namaste

[Aunt Clair]

He never claimed to be clairvoyant or a mystic .
And I have not claimed to be an expert at TK .
I have written methods here at VS and linked to them also .
I take on board your criticism though and I will post more methods here directly rather than linking to them , if that is acceptable practice .

[Raitaro]

In Exodus , the ephod of the priest is jeweled with the fruits of the Tree of Life ,

I see this not. It looks to me like the preist is simply jeweled due to being rich and influential.

[Micky-P]

Auntclair, the heart of the issue is, most people here test what they learn, and then decide based off that whether or not it is worth referring to others, most of the time if somebody isn't experienced with a particular thing they don't try to offer advice on it, other than a general guide thats applicable in most situations. Doing otherwise is like telling somebody you can walk them through open heart surgery because you watched a lot of episodes or ER.

But no matter what the subject is, no matter how little experience you have in it, you just copy and paste a huge bulk of information from an ebook or forum, the problem being that I know that you cant have tested ALL this stuff you keep referring people to! So what information you offer may be completely wrong, but you don't know, and sure as hell the person asking for help doesn't. I know many things you point people to are of extremely dubious authenticity, which is extremely irresponsible, especially when dealing with a neophyte who doesn't know any better! Especially when tried and tested methods are easily available!

People also take issue with it, because many see it as you attempting to boast on your own knowledge at every opportunity.

[Aunt Clair]

I prefer to practice , to experiment , to learn , to share and to teach .

[Steve]

I did quote it above , Steve and was pointing out that you had not replied to the proofs but rather emotionally attacked instead of logically debating , once more .

You call this a quoting of the tri-fold flame and seven chakras?

Quote:
12And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a trifold cord is not quickly broken.

…..the three fold cord is the tri fold flame a well known term in mysticism and spiritualism. It is the first flame of the sun and male aspect of godhead as yellow ,the second flame of the moon and female aspect of godhead as platinum blue , and the third flame of pink which is the avatar and becomes the union but starts from the element of earth .

Because, that's all you gave me in the book of Ecclesiastes. I replied to the Revelations quote about the chakras and showed how you were wrong. And in this case likewise, you quoted the book of Ecclesiastes and immediately ignored what was written and inserted your own words instead.

"the three fold cord is the tri fold flame" No, it's not. What part of "cord" is "flame" in either hebrew or english? He's talking about how two or three people can withstand the elements of rain and cold and animals killing them better than a single person can. His metaphor is crystal clear. Your metaphor is not what he wrote.

The visions a mystic recieves gnostically are from the Godhead . Visions can be from an aspect of self a guide or from Mahatma and angels . And your pompous attitude that the visions of others are deluded is because you have no connection to source yourself and have not opened your eyes clairvoyantly .

1) Now we're talking about definitions versus reality. Just because you and the gnostics believe that your personal visions come from something that you claim is godly doesn't mean it does. Of course, that doesn't mean Jacob's vision actually came from God either, but for the purposes of discussing what biblical authors wrote, there is a vast distinction between acts of wonder performed by men versus acts of wonder performed by God.

2) My "pompous attitude" is a valid belief that sometimes people who believe they have had visions have actually deluded themselves into thinking their daydreaming is a vision. I know people who have told me this in basically these words, "I was having this daydream, and then some really trippy stuff happened in my head and I think it was a vision from God or something." Does that mean I'm necessarily including you? No. But I am covering all the bases since you seem to want to believe that noone ever has delusions that they merely think are visions. And to be quite frank, you haven't shown any real learning to go towards the idea that your visions are anything more than delusions, your mind telling yourself what you want to hear.

It is very possible that your visions are merely delusions. I don't care how much you want to believe otherwise. I accept this for my own experiences and I will expect others to hold the possibility for their own as well.

3) My eyes or clairvoyant perception is not the issue here, and never was. Your visions were never part of the issue either as I specifically denounced them in the type of proof that I am asking for. I asked for proof that Jesus taught certain things. You still have not provided that proof, and I am still waiting.

Jacob's Ladder is a metaphor of ascension and also a very real vision of the Stairway to heaven which many have seen historically and globally .Jacob ascended .

Where did you read that Jacob ascended? It's certainly not in the bible, and neither is the idea that the ladder was a metaphor for mystical ascension considering it happend in one night while he slept. Where is your proof that Jacob believed that he ascended the ladder? More "visions"?

You are assuming ,  Steve

No, I'm not assuming, actually. You yourself have provided the proof of your inability to read basic writing.

I have read the Bible and studied it in diverse study groups and I was certified as a catechist of the Catholic Church in the Archdiocese of Washington . I also studied the Koran and the Torah with Islamic and Jewish Scholars .

I find this hard to believe, as you have not been able to back up anything you've claimed is in the bible beyond that "mysticism is in the bible".

There are many scholars who have done an excepted exegesis of these texts . You are not a theologian , a mystic or a clairvoyant . As such your opinion on the  interpretation of the Bible is basal and literal .

Scholars come in all sorts of beliefs and opinions. Some say one thing about a portion of text, some say the exact opposite. As for what I am, this hardly matters as the bible speaks for itself in the quotations, as opposed to your attempts to speak for the bible.

So far, you have ignored what is written in the bible and instead told me what you believe about the topics. You might as well be quoting from a happy meal menu for all the accuracy you're giving. Personally, I find literal to be better than absolutely wrong.

A Jewish Kaballahist will easily tell you that the stones on the ephod are the sepiroth of the Tree of Life , the colours of these jewels give the Hebrew interpretation of the Tree of Life .

Of course a Jewish Kabalist would, that's what he's been taught to believe. But a traditional Jew would not tell you this because it's not part of traditional Judaism.

In Exodus , the ephod of the priest is jeweled with the fruits of the Tree of Life ,

And when did this interpretation come about? Oh, that's right; several centuries after the scripture was written.

the colours of the jewels are the colours of the Sepiroth .

And when did this interpretation come about? Oh, that's right; several centuries after the scripture was written.

The menorrah is a Tree of Life fashioned as instructed in Exodus

And when did this interpretation come about? Oh, that's right; several centuries after the scripture was written.

Why don't you study the history of Kabalah before you start trying to dictate what the authors meant when they wrote things. The authors didn't believe the things you're talking about. The only "proof" that they supposedly did is your assurance that they did. There are no historical texts of those periods which confirm your beliefs about their thoughts on the topics.

The tree of Life in the Jewish bible is guarded by a Seraph (an angel in the form of a fiery serpent) bearing a flaming sword.

Imho , the serpent is kundalini

It was a Cherub that is guarding the Tree of Life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherubim It's not mentioned in the bible nor in that link what cherub actually look like, but I've done a bit of searching around on their origins and the word seems to come from an Egyptian word which sounds similar and refers to a similar type of being, which would have made them look like lions with bird wings and sharp talons.

Genesis 3:24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%203&version=31

So not only are you yourself unable to read, but you subscribe to the beliefs of other people who cannot read and yet who like to make shit up and believe that it's true simply because "it rings true for them"?

the paths between the sephiroth are the pathworking of the aspirant through mystic visions in the realms and the tree is within each human and also in the planet itself .

I know what the tree is in hermetic beliefs. That's not what's being disputed. Though I can, and will, point out that the kabalic tree of life is 1) Not the oldest, and 2) definately not the only one, and 3) not representative of all "life trees", "world trees", or "trees of life" from the various cultures that mentioned them.

AGAIN, what's being disputed is your claim that Jesus taught any of the list that you claimed he did. Stop getting off topic with all this other crap about trying to prove how the Torah is kabalic. Prove that Jesus, not the bible, not kabalah, not the Torah, taught these things.

the fact that Christian Gnosticism exists refutes your unecessary disparagement

But it does NOT prove that christians are gnostics, nor that the "christian bible" is a gnostic work, nor that the "christian bible" should be interpreted by inserted gnostic beliefs into it.

This gladdens my heart that other metaphysicists  see the fallacy of your constrained and limited perspective on the Bible also .

It probably shouldn't considering they're disputing your beliefs and interpretations as well.

You tell Steve to read the bible (the irony in that almost everyone here has conceded him to be somewhat of an authority on it) yet you cannot use the bible itself to prove your points. Instead you relate to the gnostic gospels and the only relevance you garner to them is more websites. Give us quotes from the authors whose names you so constantly regurgitate to call yourself well-read.

Christ has appeared to countless

deluded souls. In case you haven't read up on various experiences that people around the world have with visions, people, even mystics, have a tendency of seeing what they expect to see, making "visions" a far more "personal psychological" experience than an "external being showed me something" one.

Beyond this I cited specific apocrypha and Gnostic Gospels which you disregard

For the same reasons that most scholars agree that they are not christian and should not be treated as christian. They are called apocrypha and gnostic because they are NOT christian. EVEN the catholic church acknowledges and accepts this in their decision to keep some of the apocrypha in their pew bibles.

He never claimed to be clairvoyant or a mystic .

I don't care so much for titles.

I have claimed to be doing Qi Gong, and learning various things in various magical beliefs, and having had many metaphysical experiences that I am not so quick to attribute to whatever my mind believes is the cause (though I used to when I was younger, I now see the flaw in jumping to the conclusion that "I'm right about what I think my experiences were about").

Though, this is all completely beside the point.

I don't give a shit about your experiences or beliefs, nor about my own. I asked a simple question about why you believe that Jesus taught things like Kundalini. So far your answers have been crap or from sources that I do not recognize as christian, for reasons that I have outlined in past threads (the timeline of their creation being the first reason, as most "christian gnostic" texts are simply not written close enough to Jesus' time to be valid representations of what Jesus taught, and some because of them disagree quite transparently with what Jesus' disciples claimed Jesus taught, and also some because they disagree with fairly basic points that were believed and upheld throughout all of the Torah, like whether God listens to and answers prayers (yes, one of the gnostic texts actually claimed that God does not ever answer prayer)).

~Steve

[Aunt Clair]

"the three fold cord is the tri fold flame" No, it's not. What part of "cord" is "flame" in either hebrew or english? He's talking about how two or three people can withstand the elements of rain and cold and animals killing them better than a single person can. His metaphor is crystal clear. Your metaphor is not what he wrote.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And if a man prevail against one, two shall withstand him: a threefold cord is not easily broken.
http://biblos.com/ecclesiastes/4-12.htm
http://bible.cc/ecclesiastes/4-12.htm
What must we  resist? Evil and separation from God  . Our resistance with one flame is not good , two is better , three can not be broken . This means that the bond between God and the aspirant is formed at the third emanation which is Christ . The first is the black pillar of Ama and Mother and moon , the second is the white pillar of Abba and Father and Sun , the third braids these two and comes to Earth as the Son of Man .This is a prophecy and a method to to ascend . Christ is the Way the Truth and the Light .

The Latin calls the "cord "a funicular
A funicular is a bundle of cables that allows a car of people to ascend a mountain .
Christ is a path to ascension also .

We may go up the Mountain too through the Kaballah which also rests upon the body and is fed through the spine
with the emanation from God . Kundalini is Divine Light the Abrahamic religions used different terms for ascension but
there are similarities . The Tree of Life is universal .

Latin: Biblia Sacra Vulgata
et si quispiam praevaluerit contra unum duo resistent ei funiculus triplex difficile rumpitur

And if anyone  who is  prevailing against this, two resists but the three around the spine
(Funiculus (Latin for "slender rope") commonly refers to:. in neurology, a bundle of nerve fibers .)is difficult to interrupt .

This means that the first flame rises but this does not make the connection to God firm , the second will help but to ascend .
to heaven to Kether but, one requires the third flame , and then

this thin rope
the leap
or the  connection
to source
is difficult to be interrupted or broken .


Simlarly Ida and Pingala are the first and the second the right and left pillars but the sushumna is the middle . It is the son . It is as Christ .It is the silver cord on the body which wears the Garment of God . The flame through this is pink and is called in the Prince in Vedic Literature .

Kundalini Awakening - Prana flows in Ida OR Pingala
Of the thousands of energy channels (nadis), three are most important: Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna (sometimes called "silver cord"), which is the central ...
swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-1.htm
It is Akasha come to Earth .

Sushumna is the most important of all the Nadis. It is the sustainer of the universe and the path of the universe and the path of salvation.

http://www.indiadivine.org/hinduism/articles/98/1/Ida-Pingala-Sushumna-and-the-Shat-Chakras/

From the Rig Veda HYMN LXIX. Agni,HYMN LXX. Agni,
7 All sacrificial viands wait on Agni as the Seven mighty Rivers seek the ocean.Not by our brethren was our food discovered: find with the Gods care for us, thou who knowest.8 When light hath filled the Lord of men for increase, straight from the heaven descends the limpid moisture.Agni hath brought to light and filled with spirit the youthful host blameless and well providing.

The exegesis that the tri fold flame is the tri fold cord is not mine... but it is accepted by me .

The tri fold flame is three divine energies pink , blue , yellow/ white that emanate from the Godhead for example from the heart of Mary or Christ.

The three flames are 3 energies of the Father , Mother and Son
They are also the Sun ,Moon and Earth of Alchemy
corresponding to the primary 3 stones or cauldrons
Moon stone head
Sun stone chest
Earth stone belly

and corresponding to the first 3 flames of Kundalini
through the principal nagis on the spinal cord
of the human energy body
ida, pingala ,sushumna

Ida and Pingala

There are the two nerve-currents one on either side of the spinal column. The left one is called Ida and the right is known as Pingala. These are Nadis. Tentatively, some take these as the right and the left sympathetic cords, but they are subtle tubes that carry Prana. The Moon moves in the Ida and the Sun in the Pingala. Ida is cooling. Pingala is heating.

http://www.indiadivine.org/hinduism/articles/98/1/Ida-Pingala-Sushumna-and-the-Shat-Chakras/

These three channels are yellow ,blue and pink also .
Solomon is held to be the author of Ecclesiastes and he is a magician .His ring commanded demons .

3) My eyes or clairvoyant perception is not the issue here, and never was. Your visions were never part of the issue either as I specifically denounced them in the type of proof that I am asking for. I asked for proof that Jesus taught certain things. You still have not provided that proof, and I am still waiting.

If you have eyes open them, if you have ears let them hear . The proof is all around you . If anyone will sit in meditative trance and evoke the presence of Christ they will feel him . If they will open their third eye they will see him .
I have provided Biblical Text , Biblical Exegesis , mystic visions and gnostic Gospels and apocrypha
You dismiss all . The argument remains untenable .

Jacob's Ladder is a metaphor of ascension and also a very real vision of the Stairway to Heaven which many have seen historically and globally .Jacob ascended .

Where did you read that Jacob ascended? It's certainly not in the bible, and neither is the idea that the ladder was a metaphor for mystical ascension considering it happend in one night while he slept. Where is your proof that Jacob believed that he ascended the ladder? More "visions"?

It is the considered interpretation of Jewish and Christian Theologians .
    * Midrash explains that Jacob, as a holy man, was always accompanied by angels. When he reached the border of the land of Canaan (the future land of Israel), the angels who were assigned to the Holy Land went back up to Heaven and the angels assigned to other lands came down to meet Jacob. When Jacob returned to Canaan (Genesis 32:2-3), he was greeted by the angels who were assigned to the Holy Land.

    * The place at which Jacob stopped for the night was in reality Mount Moriah, the future home of the Temple in Jerusalem. The ladder therefore signifies the "bridge" between Heaven and earth, as prayers and sacrifices offered in the Holy Temple soldered a connection between God and the Jewish people. Moreover, the ladder alludes to the Giving of the Torah as another connection between heaven and earth. The Hebrew word for ladder, sulam - סלם - and the name for the mountain on which the Torah was given, Sinai - סיני - have the same gematria (numerical value of the letters).

Jacob's Ladder refers to a ladder to heaven, described in the Book of Genesis ... of the ladder keys into the fact that the angels first "ascended" and then ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob's_Ladder


How does the story of Jacob's Ladder from the Old Testament apply to our ... saw a vision of a ladder connecting heaven to earth upon which angels ascended ...
www.clarion-call.org/yeshua/jacob/ladder.htm

Our widespread Showy Jacob's ladder (Polemonium pulcherrimum) has the potential ... This distinctive arrangement recalls the ladder that Jacob ascended to ...
www.bcarchives.bc.ca/Natural_History/Plants.aspx?id=973

Searching for Jacob's ladder~When the images of Jacob's dream are presented to us, we are told that the angels of God ascended the ladder before going down toward the earth. ...
www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/021115/torah.shtml -

And Jacob fought with the Angel . He saw and felt this angel . This means his vibration was not ordinary , he had a lifted or ascended vibration in order to have this experience .
Wrestling With God - Genesis 32:23-34~Jacob was encountering God in some fashion in this account in Genesis 32:22-32. Some have suggested that Jacob fought with the "Angel of God" that we read ...
www.unionchurch.com/archive/100399.html

Jacob does not mean "fought with GOD"~Jacob wins the fight and the person tells him: Your name is no more Jacob but Israel (Israel - fought with God's angel). What was this fight? ...
www.answering-christianity.com/jacob.htm

You are assuming ,  Steve

No, I'm not assuming, actually. You yourself have provided the proof of your inability to read basic writing.

Steve , Beyond the fact that I am replying to your terse rhetoric , there is the fact that I teach College and that I have 2 degrees having studied 7 years at university .Your opinion regarding my lack of literacy is not founded .

I have read the Bible and studied it in diverse study groups and I was certified as a catechist of the Catholic Church in the Archdiocese of Washington . I also studied the Koran and the Torah with Islamic and Jewish Scholars .

I find this hard to believe, as you have not been able to back up anything you've claimed is in the bible beyond that "mysticism is in the bible".

You could look up the record if you like . I taught in Montgomery County MD and led Christian Meditation Retreats as well as the catechism of the Sacraments of Eucharist , Penance and Confirmation .Any Kaballahist will demonstrate that the naming of the Sepiroth and the colours of these Jewels on the Tree of Life is in the Bible but you refuse to see it . That is a condition that only you can rectify . And the numerous other proofs mean nothing to you either ,which is sad.

So far, you have ignored what is written in the bible and instead told me what you believe about the topics. You might as well be quoting from a happy meal menu for all the accuracy you're giving. Personally, I find literal to be better than absolutely wrong.

This is emotional and insulting but it does little to establish your authenticity or integrity .

A Jewish Kaballahist will easily tell you that the stones on the ephod are the sepiroth of the Tree of Life , the colours of these jewels give the Hebrew interpretation of the Tree of Life .

Of course a Jewish Kabalist would, that's what he's been taught to believe. But a traditional Jew would not tell you this because it's not part of traditional Judaism.

That is incorrect . There are fundamentally 3 forms of Judaism . These are Conservatives , Orthodox and Reformed. Any one who has studied will be aware of the significance of the Tree of Life . The difference lies in the importance of it . Some Jewish scholars believe mysticism is the only method of Kaballah others feel that the reading of the Zohar and the observation of the Talmud are the only way . The arguement will not occur that the Tree does not exist , it does .

Oh, that's right; several centuries after the scripture was written.....
Why don't you study the history of Kabalah before you start trying to dictate what the authors meant when they wrote things. The authors didn't believe the things you're talking about. The only "proof" that they supposedly did is your assurance that they did. There are no historical texts of those periods which confirm your beliefs about their thoughts on the topics.

The NT was not written until centuries after the death of Christ , shall we invalidate it this way too ? The interpretation of the Tree of Life is ancient and predates Judaism altogether . Your comment that an interpretation was made centuries later does not make sense . The exegesis occurs when it is revealed , during the writing and after the writing , of course .
[/quote]
"Kabbalah... means 'Oral tradition' comes from Hebrew, which is very much a phonetic language. It evolved from Jewish mysticism, which wanted to penetrate the inner mysteries of the Torah - the Jewish Scriptures. The key symbol of the Kabbalah is the Tree of Life, and the Spheres (or Sephiroth) that it contains. Understanding the Kabbalah allows one to understand the true nature of being. Many Wiccan traditions incorporate the study of the Kabbalah into their higher degrees, and it is also central to the Golden Dawn, Rosicrucianism and Hermeticism."
http://www.pagannews.com/cgi-bin/spheres1.pl

the right shoulder is red and the right hip orange
Hermeticists colour the right side red and the right arm orange
The left shoulder on the Tree is blue and the left hip green
Hermeticists see the left side blue and the left leg green
Through the body on the right the white or gold Abba the Father
also the heating flame of the sun or Pingala
and on the left side is the black or silver Ama the Mother
also the cooling flame of the moon or  Ida
And through the middle pillar are the
the invisible Daath is seen through the moon stone brow centre
the yellow sun stone is the same
the belly of purple magick the kaballsh is the Taoist earth stone
Malkuth is four elemental at our feet
or
alternatively
Rose Daath the hidden and invisible realms above us
Yellow fire Shen in the seed of the Moon Stone Head
Purple Chi  in the seed of the Sun Stone Chest
Malkuth Earth Stone Belly

The tree of Life in the Jewish bible is guarded by a Seraph (an angel in the form of a fiery serpent) bearing a flaming sword.

Imho , the serpent is kundalini

It was a Cherub that is guarding the Tree of Life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherubim It's not mentioned in the bible nor in that link what cherub actually look like, but I've done a bit of searching around on their origins and the word seems to come from an Egyptian word which sounds similar and refers to a similar type of being, which would have made them look like lions with bird wings and sharp talons.

Actually the Kerubim are lion winged guards of the Throne of God and the Tree of Life . They are Egyptian and Middle Easter and Asian in acceptance . Buddha called these Shi Shi .

So not only are you yourself unable to read, but you subscribe to the beliefs of other people who cannot read and yet who like to make shit up and believe that it's true simply because "it rings true for them"?

I am disappointed in your conduct here Steve.

AGAIN, what's being disputed is your claim that Jesus taught any of the list that you claimed he did. Stop getting off topic with all this other crap about trying to prove how the Torah is kabalic. Prove that Jesus, not the bible, not kabalah, not the Torah, taught these things.

1. Jesus was Jewish .
2, Jesus studied and read in the Temple
3. Kaballah is mystic and it is in the Jewish sacred scriptures
4. Therefore Jesus also studied this .
6. Jesus was a great teacher called the Good Rabbi
7 .Therefore he taught this .


Christ was a mystic and a magician .
Christ spoke to God .
Christ healed the lame and the blind .
Christ raised the dead .
Christ changed water to wine .
Christ studied the word of the prophets and fulfilled them
Christ interpreted dreams
Christ knew his future


   Miracles of Jesus
This lists all the miracles of Christ in order.
http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/miracles.html
Miracles of Healing
Official's son         
Possessed man    
Peter's in-law    
Many at sunset     
Leper    
Paralytic        
Man at Bethesda         
Withered hand    
Crowd in Galilee               
Centurion's son
Widow's son        
2 demoniacs       
Jairus daughter   
Unclean woman     
2 blind men                  
Dumb man                  
Touching clothes          
Crowd in Galilee               
Few in Nazareth             
Gentile's daughter             
Deaf man             
Multitude                  
Epileptic boy        
Blind man         
Blind/dumb man       
Man of Bethsaida          
Stooped woman            
Man with Dropsy       
Lazarus raised         
Ten Lepers          
Crowds in Judea              
Bartimaeus     
Many in Jerusalem                  
Ear of Malchus
Resurrection

Water to wine    
1st catch of fish    
Calms a sea        
Feeds 5000    
Walks on water
Feeds 4000         
Money in fish                  
Tree withered         
2nd catch of fish

The Mystic Christ: The Light of Non Duality ...
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What is Christian mysticism?Christ is the sole end of Christian mysticism. Whereas all Christians have Christ, call on Christ, and can (or should) know Christ, the goal for the ...
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Seeing unity in diversity The Mystic Christ: www.devipress.com ... The following is excerpted and condensed from the book The Mystic Christ (click the link ...
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Christ and Mysticism - Gnosticism - Gnostic
The Mystic Christ reveals the life and teachings of Jesus to be an ancient tale of mystic union, salvation, and enlightenment.
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Overview of The Mystic Christ ·
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The Mystic Christ by Ethan Walker author interview
4 Nov 2005 ... The Mystic Christ by Ethan Walker - new age author interview.
www.ghostvillage.com/library/2005/lib_walker.shtml

Britannica online encyclopedia article on Christianity, Christ-mysticism: The earliest form of Christian mysticism was the Christ-mysticism of Paul and John ...
www.britannica.com/eb/article-67558/Christianity

Song given to the Visionary Maria Esperanza, by Christ Himself: A Mystic’s, Song given to the Visionary Maria Esperanza, by Christ Himself: A Mystic’s ...
www.authorsden.com/visit/viewshortstory.asp?id=22215

the fact that Christian Gnosticism exists refutes your unecessary disparagement

But it does NOT prove that christians are gnostics, nor that the "christian bible" is a gnostic work, nor that the "christian bible" should be interpreted by inserted gnostic beliefs into it.

I never implied that all Christians are Gnostic I am replying to your insistence that none of them are .

You tell Steve to read the bible (the irony in that almost everyone here has conceded him to be somewhat of an authority on it) yet you cannot use the bible itself to prove your points. Instead you relate to the gnostic gospels and the only relevance you garner to them is more websites. Give us quotes from the authors whose names you so constantly regurgitate to call yourself well-read.

Beyond this I cited specific apocrypha and Gnostic Gospels which you disregard

For the same reasons that most scholars agree that they are not christian and should not be treated as christian. They are called apocrypha and gnostic because they are NOT christian. EVEN the catholic church acknowledges and accepts this in their decision to keep some of the apocrypha in their pew bibles.

Bishop Irenaeus chose what codices and scrolls would be kept and which discarded to form the current Bible which has then been translated and disseminated . Many other texts he chose not to include are still available .And some whole books are included in the KJV that are missing from the Marian and vice versa . The choice of one man ,who was known to be corrupt and to incite torture and imprisonment of people and the  burial and burning of Bible age texts , does not mean much . Someday all of these texts that remain will be available for consideration and exegesis .

I don't give a shit about your experiences or beliefs, nor about my own. I asked a simple question about why you believe that Jesus taught things like Kundalini.

Because he has taught about it in the apocrypha which I cited , in mystic visions and dreamstate lessons which I cited and because it is in the Bible which he read and taught and manifested  as I cited .

So far your answers have been crap or from sources that I do not recognize as christian, for reasons that I have outlined in past threads (the timeline of their creation being the first reason, as most "christian gnostic" texts are simply not written close enough to Jesus' time to be valid representations of what Jesus taught, and some because of them disagree quite transparently with what Jesus' disciples claimed Jesus taught, and also some because they disagree with fairly basic points that were believed and upheld throughout all of the Torah, like whether God listens to and answers prayers (yes, one of the gnostic texts actually claimed that God does not ever answer prayer)).

There are 7 mansions on the spine
www.veenagayathri.com/SpinalChord.html

Thus totaling 7 Joints (cervical belonging to the neck, dorsal belonging to the back and lumbar belonging to the loins.) In the veena we see the mansions are large and roomy as they begin from the lower pitch. But as we proceed to the top pitch the frets shrink in size till towards  the very end where they are rather minute. The division found near the lion-face (foot) of the veena are larger than those near the brain. Similarly, the vertebrae in the column are large and thick near the region of the waist, dwindling more and more in size and thickness as they approach the head. In Vedas, the spinal chord is described as veenadanda. As already stated the lower end of the veena is termed as simha-mukha or lion-face. Even the lower end or basal stand of the vertebrae is shaped like veena's simha­mukha.

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
http://biblecc.com/revelation/1-12.htm
http://biblecc.com/revelation/1-13.htm
http://biblecc.com/revelation/2-1.htm
http://biblecc.com/exodus/25-37.htm
http://biblecc.com/numbers/8-2.htm
http://biblecc.com/exodus/37-23.htm
http://biblecc.com/zechariah/4-2.htm
http://biblecc.com/revelation/4-5.htm

The Tree of Life is upon the body of the Human the description of which lies in ancient texts predating the Bible and is also included in Exodus and elsewhere . The 7 lamps are the 7 chakras . The Son of Man is Christ .

If you will open your eyes you will see him . If you will open your heart you will know him . If you will open your ears you will hear him. Until such day that you know the Cosmic Christ the riddle of his lessons will escape you .
"The student cannot receive it until they are ready to perceive it ".

Christ took our circle of Mystics to see Buddha and told us this is your good teacher too . Christ is met in Wesak Valley of Shamballah annually by dreamstate projectors , mystics in trance and deceased spirits . Christ took us with angels to the Qlippoth realms and showed us Samael and taught us about exorcism . Christ chastised us to have Faith and he told us to heal , to exorcise , to follow , to pray . My mind is not deluded and my peers are not subject to hysteria . I am not retarded
and I do not boast . Christ appears to all . Just open your heart , your mind , your eyes and your ears . He is there ."
"Knock and the door shall be opened unto you "

[Steve]

So basically, you just keep reading the bible until you stop seeing what's actually written and you see what you want to see? You take one word, or one sentence, and then make up an entire story surrounding it to justify your interpretation. I've seen this all too often. "Justifications" for beliefs are not proofs.

Christ was a mystic and a magician .
Christ spoke to God .
Christ healed the lame and the blind .
Christ raised the dead .
Christ changed water to wine .
Christ studied the word of the prophets and fulfilled them
Christ interpreted dreams
Christ knew his future

The first one is not established. It is a belief of many magicians. The rest are explainable by, oh, I don't know, him being the Son of God perhaps? I mean, that's only what the bible claims he was. Perhaps that's too "out there" for your ideals and so you have to reign it in a bit, telling yourself "woah, Son of God is too much. Magician fits as well though, so I'll just call him a magician because that makes more sense to me." Well, not everyone agrees with you. Sure, other magicians do, but not all. And there are apostles and "prophets" who have worked miracles who also disagree. So, the battle continues to wage between the magicians who claim Jesus is one of them because they can create the same results, and they have their very own way of interpreting everything in the bible (including but not limited to the things Jesus said) so that it better fits their own paradigm, versus those who don't belief that Jesus was just another great magician, who believe that Jesus was something even more than that.

1. Jesus was Jewish .
2, Jesus studied and read in the Temple
3. Kaballah is mystic and it is in the Jewish sacred scriptures
4. Therefore Jesus also studied this .
6. Jesus was a great teacher called the Good Rabbi
7 .Therefore he taught this .

1 and 2 are true, and that's where it ends.

In case your vast amount of studies hasn't shown you it yet, kabalah was NOT considered to be the mystical interpretations of the Torah by the Jewish people at around the time of Jesus nor before. Even orthodox Jews acknowledge that there is a mystical interpretation of the Torah for those who delve into it keenly, but very few Jews believe that what is known as Kabalah today was actually what anyone prior to Jesus taught or learned of the mystical Torah interpretations. The majority of kabalic interpretations came about later than Jesus. There are ideas found within kabalah that predate Jesus and even the Jewish people, but that doesn't mean 1) the Jews believed them, nor 2) that the Jews taught the full-fledged system known as Kabalah, nor 3) that Jesus had anything to do with that even if the Jews had.

And not only is 2 leading to 3 a logical fallacy, and 3 leading to 4 also a logical fallacy, but 6 leading up to 7 is also a logical fallacy. You take an observation, and then draw a false conclusion from it, and then run with that false conclusion towards other false conclusions. (Seriously. I've heard plenty of my teachers in juniour high school and high school called "good teachers", but does that mean they taught Kabalah? This is why I keep telling you your logic is retarded.)

AND, if Jesus was the Son of God instead of a Great Mystic, then naturally He would quote from scriptures about His own Father, from whom the majority of scripture was inspired. As such, he would be better than mere kabalism and would have no need of it. (See, I can draw false conclusion too.) In the future, try to seperate the facts apart from the conclusion that you draw from the facts.

Any Kaballahist will demonstrate that the naming of the Sepiroth and the colours of these Jewels on the Tree of Life is in the Bible but you refuse to see it .

Any kabalist will CLAIM to demonstrate the naming of the Sephiroth and the colours of the Jewels. Just because later people created associations for these things doesn't mean the original creator(s) of the Ephod did.

The NT was not written until centuries after the death of Christ

Oh, thank you and goodnight. You don't know what you're talking about, obviously, and need to study the subject a hell of a lot more before you talk to me. Any internet site listing the dates of the various books of the NT will show that most of the books of the cannonical NT were written within a single century of Jesus' death, many even being written within 50 years of his death (and offline sources agree, for the most part). Here's one such site: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/


50-60   1 Thessalonians
50-60   Philippians
50-60   Galatians
50-60   1 Corinthians
50-60   2 Corinthians
50-60   Romans
50-60   Philemon
50-80   Colossians
50-95   Book of Hebrews
65-80   Gospel of Mark
70-100    Epistle of James
80-100    2 Thessalonians
80-100    Ephesians
80-100    Gospel of Matthew
80-110    1 Peter
80-130    Gospel of Luke
80-130    Acts of the Apostles
90-95   Apocalypse of John (aka, "Revelations")
90-120    Gospel of John
90-120    1 John
90-120    2 John
90-120    3 John
90-120    Epistle of Jude
93   Flavius Josephus (non-cannonical book. left in simply as a reference date)
100-150   1 Timothy
100-150   2 Timothy
100-150   Titus
100-160   2 Peter

So, as you can see, the earlist possible dating for the majority of the NT is within a normal person's lifespan (ie, Paul's >_>) and the latest possible dating for others fall just barely within a single century of Jesus' death. The last four are the only ones which have a decent chance of having been written more than that single century later.

The CANNON was not named "officially" by the catholics until many centuries later, but even before the catholics did this there was a few specific sets of books that most christian churches had already decided were the most worthwhile books.

Do. your. history. It is severly lacking in points of the Torah, the Christian Bible, and the Kabalah.



~Steve