Poll

Are You practicing the Steps in Initiaion into Hermetics?

Yes, very strictly.
46 (15.5%)
Yes, mixed with my other practices.
112 (37.8%)
Kinda, of and on again.
53 (17.9%)
No, it doesn't fit with me.
49 (16.6%)
No, What is IIH?
28 (9.5%)
No, don't have the time.
8 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 296

Author Topic: Who is Practicing the IIH?  (Read 569252 times)

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December 02, 2014, 12:20:56 PM
Reply #630

ThePhoenix13

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Hi, stupid question, but can I get some clarification as to timelines? Rawn Clark seems very optimistic that the first step should only take about 6 weeks. Veos says 4X that. I have a lot of respect for Rawn, but is he being overly optimistic?

6 weeks is kind of "good enough" to move on to the next step. But no it's not long enough to master the exercise. In fact you cannot master the exercise until you reach Gnosis which is far off  from completing step 8. Thought observation is actually a gnostic practice.
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December 02, 2014, 12:33:24 PM
Reply #631

Akenu

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Let me see, the physical exercises, correct bathing of the body, charging food, water magick are pretty easy to grasp, conscious breathing, eating and drinking need some time to get used to it.

Thought observation needs some dedication, it takes about 5 days to get to the point where you can passively observe your thoughts for 10 minutes and actually remember all of them.

Next one is thought control, limiting your thoughts just to certain idea. This should be practiced during the whole day. It can be nailed in 3 days and affirmations really help with that.

Then you should also write down your soul mirrors, this depends a lot on how good you are with introspection and how often you want to write things down.

Biggest problem lies in vacancy of mind exercise, about 4 weeks to get this one down, prayer beads really help


December 02, 2014, 12:40:22 PM
Reply #632

turbostrat9

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6 weeks is kind of "good enough" to move on to the next step. But no it's not long enough to master the exercise. In fact you cannot master the exercise until you reach Gnosis which is far off  from completing step 8. Thought observation is actually a gnostic practice.

So I'm not being overly optimistic about trying to spend about a month on each of the mental exercises?

December 02, 2014, 12:44:52 PM
Reply #633

Akenu

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6 weeks is kind of "good enough" to move on to the next step. But no it's not long enough to master the exercise. In fact you cannot master the exercise until you reach Gnosis which is far off  from completing step 8. Thought observation is actually a gnostic practice.

So I'm not being overly optimistic about trying to spend about a month on each of the mental exercises?

Come on, that's ridiculous. You would be only wasting your time. Thought observation and vacancy of mind can be practiced in a succession (first ten minutes observation, then ten minutes vacancy of mind), thought control is practiced during the whole day (except when you are doing thought observation and vacancy of mind exercises).

December 02, 2014, 01:16:06 PM
Reply #634

turbostrat9

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I'm just confused because Veos claims it takes six months in his commentary. I'd love to be able to just plow through it, but that doesn't seem to be the advice that most people on this site give.

December 02, 2014, 01:25:26 PM
Reply #635

Akenu

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That's simple, don't read commentaries :-D. IIH is enough consistent and self-explanatory, don't try to make it difficult by reading opinions of other people.

December 02, 2014, 01:34:24 PM
Reply #636

Shinichi

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That's simple, don't read commentaries :-D

That.

There is a lot of often-useful information to find in the commentaries, but if you are reading the IIH then you are not a student of Veos, or Rawn, or Mistele or anyone else. You are a student of Franz Bardon, and the book itself has everything you need to make it through all of the early steps.



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December 02, 2014, 02:19:26 PM
Reply #637

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Some very good things have been said and some not so good ones but what I would grasp from the last few posts is that it will take no longer than 6 weeks, if you take longer then your a failure and that all you need is your self, a play thing and a book with no pictures. Lots and lots of belly laughs!

1. It will take as long as it takes, no more no less
2. Some need more external help/guidance than others
3. You do not have to master the exercises but you need to be able to do them. Nothing bad about starting over
4. Ask these so called if they now what's their strongest element or their weakest or are there any in balance
5. And finally it's all about you! Or I if its about self.

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We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

December 02, 2014, 02:56:34 PM
Reply #638

Merlin

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Come on, that's ridiculous. You would be only wasting your time. Thought observation and vacancy of mind can be practiced in a succession (first ten minutes observation, then ten minutes vacancy of mind), thought control is practiced during the whole day (except when you are doing thought observation and vacancy of mind exercises).
I've been practicing thought observation along with the magic and physical training from step one for about sixteen weeks. I'm really not worried about taking my time; I'm 17, so I figure I have plenty of time. Is there a drawback to going so slowly?
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

December 02, 2014, 03:52:16 PM
Reply #639

Akenu

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Come on, that's ridiculous. You would be only wasting your time. Thought observation and vacancy of mind can be practiced in a succession (first ten minutes observation, then ten minutes vacancy of mind), thought control is practiced during the whole day (except when you are doing thought observation and vacancy of mind exercises).
I've been practicing thought observation along with the magic and physical training from step one for about sixteen weeks. I'm really not worried about taking my time; I'm 17, so I figure I have plenty of time. Is there a drawback to going so slowly?

Yes, there is one drawback, you are wasting a valuable time, if you are already able to to keep your mind vacant for 10 minutes you should begin accomodating step II into your practice as it is the most time consuming one (but ultimately the most valuable one).

December 02, 2014, 03:59:52 PM
Reply #640

Akenu

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Some very good things have been said and some not so good ones but what I would grasp from the last few posts is that it will take no longer than 6 weeks, if you take longer then your a failure and that all you need is your self, a play thing and a book with no pictures. Lots and lots of belly laughs!

1. It will take as long as it takes, no more no less
2. Some need more external help/guidance than others
3. You do not have to master the exercises but you need to be able to do them. Nothing bad about starting over
4. Ask these so called if they now what's their strongest element or their weakest or are there any in balance
5. And finally it's all about you! Or I if its about self.

Searcher

Nope, not a failure. Each student is individual with individual needs and individual progression, notice that I said "about" in most cases.

Also, my soul mirrors.
black mirror
Fire: 9 vices
Water: 11 vices
Air: 9 vices
Earth: 6 vices

white mirror
Fire: 4 virtues
Water: 12 virtues
Air: 5 virtues
Earth: 1 virtues

Each of these is also split into 3 stages depending on how easily the virtue or the vice can be triggered.

December 02, 2014, 04:10:51 PM
Reply #641

Merlin

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Come on, that's ridiculous. You would be only wasting your time. Thought observation and vacancy of mind can be practiced in a succession (first ten minutes observation, then ten minutes vacancy of mind), thought control is practiced during the whole day (except when you are doing thought observation and vacancy of mind exercises).
I've been practicing thought observation along with the magic and physical training from step one for about sixteen weeks. I'm really not worried about taking my time; I'm 17, so I figure I have plenty of time. Is there a drawback to going so slowly?

Yes, there is one drawback, you are wasting a valuable time, if you are already able to to keep your mind vacant for 10 minutes you should begin accomodating step II into your practice as it is the most time consuming one (but ultimately the most valuable one).
Okay. About scheduling practice should I 1) fully extend my earlier practices into my current ones, 2) cut back the time, but keep them up, 3) just focus on the exercises of the current step, or something else?

For clarification:
1) 10 minutes observation, 10 minutes blank mind each morning and night, maintain a focused mind throughout the day, and practice visualization as described in the IIH
2) 5 minutes observation, 5 minutes blank mind each morning and night, maintain a focused mind most of the time, and practice visualization as described in the IIH
3) Visualization exercises morning and night
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

December 02, 2014, 04:16:50 PM
Reply #642

Akenu

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Come on, that's ridiculous. You would be only wasting your time. Thought observation and vacancy of mind can be practiced in a succession (first ten minutes observation, then ten minutes vacancy of mind), thought control is practiced during the whole day (except when you are doing thought observation and vacancy of mind exercises).
I've been practicing thought observation along with the magic and physical training from step one for about sixteen weeks. I'm really not worried about taking my time; I'm 17, so I figure I have plenty of time. Is there a drawback to going so slowly?

Yes, there is one drawback, you are wasting a valuable time, if you are already able to to keep your mind vacant for 10 minutes you should begin accomodating step II into your practice as it is the most time consuming one (but ultimately the most valuable one).
Okay. About scheduling practice should I 1) fully extend my earlier practices into my current ones, 2) cut back the time, but keep them up, 3) just focus on the exercises of the current step, or something else?

For clarification:
1) 10 minutes observation, 10 minutes blank mind each morning and night, maintain a focused mind throughout the day, and practice visualization as described in the IIH
2) 5 minutes observation, 5 minutes blank mind each morning and night, maintain a focused mind most of the time, and practice visualization as described in the IIH
3) Visualization exercises morning and night

Generally some practices in IIH are meant to be mastered and then forgotten, except those that Bardon says should be kept the whole life, which, is e.g. the whole first step. Regarding the timeline, I would say that once you get to 10 minutes for mental exercises, you should always keep it 10 minutes (not cutting down the time), that takes 20 minutes in the morning and in the evening, BUT your need to sleep will be reduced which means these exercises will earn their time. For the rest, you do not need to practice only in the morning or evening, spreading exercises along the day will less likely make you annoyed by your daily routine and will help you get used to the correct state of mind.

December 02, 2014, 04:18:00 PM
Reply #643

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Where did I say 'Akenu' lol but on a serious note a bit of rebalancing wouldn't go a miss. Get into them corners and do some altering!

I don't think I've ever seen that dedicated Merlin, although I do agree that some get bogged down and forget to move forwards, Akenus correct try incorporating the next few exercises.

Give me a few min and I'll find my original regime out
We can look but do we see and we can listen but do we hear? So what gets in the way?
👂u have to say because I don't do hints👂

December 02, 2014, 04:19:54 PM
Reply #644

Akenu

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Where did I say 'Akenu' lol but on a serious note a bit of rebalancing wouldn't go a miss. Get into them corners and do some altering!

I don't think I've ever seen that dedicated Merlin, although I do agree that some get bogged down and forget to move forwards, Akenus correct try incorporating the next few exercises.

Give me a few min and I'll find my original regime out

Don't worry, it wasn't taken personally, you just made a good point about the failure part and I wanted to clear that one up :).