Poll

Are You practicing the Steps in Initiaion into Hermetics?

Yes, very strictly.
46 (15.5%)
Yes, mixed with my other practices.
112 (37.8%)
Kinda, of and on again.
53 (17.9%)
No, it doesn't fit with me.
49 (16.6%)
No, What is IIH?
28 (9.5%)
No, don't have the time.
8 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 296

Author Topic: Who is Practicing the IIH?  (Read 569244 times)

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December 29, 2011, 11:20:17 PM
Reply #405

Jordana Divinorum

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Thanks or the replies guys.  I don't mean to sound like a troll, but I guess I was wondering if it was worth getting deep into the elemental stuff if it's not possible to produce any physical effects.  Sure, people on message boards around the world claim they can make the temperature of the room hotter with their mind, but not one instance of this type of elemental magick has even been documented.  I've only never heard of psychic or magical healing being documented.  Since the witch trails are over, there doesn't seem to be a big need for secrecy anymore.  You can find books on occultism and witchcraft at your local Chapters store. 
I've been practicing IIH on and off for a few years, and the mental benefits are definitely worthwhile.  I'm not sold that you can become Harry Potter, but it definitely builds character and can help you get ready for things like astral travel and evocation.  I need to get back into this book even if the benefits are purely in your head.  Good luck with your work in the New Year.

December 30, 2011, 02:06:05 AM
Reply #406

mrblack

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Thanks or the replies guys.  I don't mean to sound like a troll, but I guess I was wondering if it was worth getting deep into the elemental stuff if it's not possible to produce any physical effects.  Sure, people on message boards around the world claim they can make the temperature of the room hotter with their mind, but not one instance of this type of elemental magick has even been documented.  I've only never heard of psychic or magical healing being documented.  Since the witch trails are over, there doesn't seem to be a big need for secrecy anymore.  You can find books on occultism and witchcraft at your local Chapters store. 
I've been practicing IIH on and off for a few years, and the mental benefits are definitely worthwhile.  I'm not sold that you can become Harry Potter, but it definitely builds character and can help you get ready for things like astral travel and evocation.  I need to get back into this book even if the benefits are purely in your head.  Good luck with your work in the New Year.

Well, to be fair - where has magick ever been "officially" documented (besides when it's being written down that it's the devils work).
As for secrecy; they still hunt down sorcerers in the middle east and they just did some sort of shaman genocide in South America so.....
I just found out that in Canada (where I live), they have laws against people practicing witchcraft.
Authors have written about things they can do once they've reached a certain level  in IIH.
I just wish I'd get to those levels already.....*sigh*

hepaby!

beyondchaosmagick.wordpress.com <-- journal
thehollowones.wordpress.com <--collective

December 30, 2011, 12:27:11 PM
Reply #407

Jordana Divinorum

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Well, to be fair - where has magick ever been "officially" documented (besides when it's being written down that it's the devils work).
As for secrecy; they still hunt down sorcerers in the middle east and they just did some sort of shaman genocide in South America so.....
I just found out that in Canada (where I live), they have laws against people practicing witchcraft.
Authors have written about things they can do once they've reached a certain level  in IIH.
I just wish I'd get to those levels already.....*sigh*

I live in Canada.  They don't have laws against witchcraft.  They have laws against the fraudulent practice of witchcraft.  This means you can charge someone for ripping a poor sucker off.  There are no Canadian laws that prohibit the practice of withcraft of any type of magick. 

It's sad that things like that still happen in the middle east, but in North America I think you would be safe if you claimed you could raise the temperature of the room.  Many people have gone on the James Randi show and tried to win his cash.  Also, there are many psychic detectives, psychics for hire, occult authors, Wiccan covens, new age bookstores, occult orders, and the chuch of Satan.  I believe North America is a safe environment to investigate claims of occult powers if all of these things exist without public outcry. 

What I meant by documented is that magick has never been scientifically documented; there has only been documentation defrauding it.  No one has ever proven a psychic ability or ability to perform telekinesis or some power like that. 

Can you tell me which authors said they can do certain things after reaching a certain level in IIH?
My practice has been pretty terrible lately.  You know how life gets in the way. Hopefully I'll get back into my routine.  Cheers.

December 30, 2011, 01:33:25 PM
Reply #408

trismegistos

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December 30, 2011, 07:07:51 PM
Reply #409

Steve

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What I meant by documented is that magick has never been scientifically documented; there has only been documentation defrauding it.  No one has ever proven a psychic ability or ability to perform telekinesis or some power like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Kulagina
"According to reports from the Soviet Union, forty scientists, two of whom were Nobel laureates, studied Kulagina.[6]"

It's not that it hasn't been documented in scientific experiments. The problem is found within the same webpage:

"Many skeptical individuals and organizations, such as the James Randi Educational Foundation and the Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on the Paranormal (CICAP) express strong skepticism regarding the truth of these claims. It is noted that the long preparation times and uncontrolled environments (such as hotel rooms) in which the experiments took place left much potential for trickery.[10] Skeptics have argued that many of Kulagina's feats could easily be performed by one practiced in sleight of hand, through means such as cleverly concealed or disguised threads, small pieces of magnetic metal, or mirrors.[11] They further point to the fact that no sleight of hand experts appear to have ever been present during experiments, and that the Cold War-era Soviet Union had an obvious motive for falsifying or exaggerating results in the potential propaganda value in appearing to win a "Psi Race" analogous to the concurrent Space Race or arms race.[citation needed]"

An experiment is (or many many experiments are) run by scientists, who document their efforts the same as they would any other experiment. After they're done, they publish their findings the same as always. After this is done, someone else entirely, who had nothing to do with the experiments yet who claims to have some sort of authority on the matter (whether claiming to be scientists, or professors, or studious persons of whatever background, or stage magicians), comes along and seem to cast so much "doubt" on the experiments, through nothing more than offering alternative explanations or outright lying about things that supposedly happened during the experiments, that society at large listens to the naysayers and let the matter be swept from their minds. Scientists found Facts; disbelievers made Claims. Yet it is the loudest voice, not the most accurate voice, which controls the perceptions of society.

It's not that magical/psychic phenomenon haven't been scientifically documented; it's that materialistic scientists/wanna-bes hold so much sway over public opinion that any member of our so-called modern society is belittled when they attempt to believe in spirits and faeries and whatnot. And there's a reason for this; history. Scientists were very influential in proving that many superstitions were invalid, and thus they came to the conclusion that ALL metaphysical believes are superstitions, and continually try to tell society so.

~Steve
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 07:42:47 PM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

December 31, 2011, 12:28:40 AM
Reply #410

trismegistos

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Scientists were very influential in proving that many superstitions were invalid, and thus they came to the conclusion that ALL metaphysical believes are superstitions, and continually try to tell society so.

~Steve

Bravo, sir.  Bravo.

Not that the rest of your post wasn't awesome, but it's amazing how brainwashed "logical free thinkers" really are.  On a few occasions I've shown such naysayers these studies, and they pretend like they never even read them and continue to argue their opinions as facts.

December 31, 2011, 04:43:46 PM
Reply #411

Melchizedek

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It's hidden from you

December 31, 2011, 06:38:52 PM
Reply #412

trismegistos

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For a self proclaimed advanced practitioner of IIH, you sure do have a big ego spouting off how your are the chosen one initiated directly by the White Brotherhood etc. and how nobody else but you knows how to "truly" read IIH

Might want to get them soul mirrors worked on first, perhaps you didn't read the part where Bardon says character sublimation is the most important exercise.

January 01, 2012, 12:53:51 AM
Reply #413

ArcaTuthus

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You are a welcome new years merriment. M
And how!

January 01, 2012, 12:54:56 AM
Reply #414

trismegistos

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January 01, 2012, 01:13:55 AM
Reply #415

Silver_Archer

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This has now descended to bickering of Kindergarten levels. Now, while this might be indicative of the intellectual depth one would come to expect from hermetic mages, it would be nice if we didn't do it on the forums in such an obvious display. :)

And should you find that offensive, just remember; I am not the one mashing randomly at my keyboard with the caps lock on.
<Forg> Everything is adjustable when you have a saw.

January 01, 2012, 01:50:07 AM
Reply #416

Melchizedek

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If you doubt about whether or not you can really do miracles, like Franz Bardon has been stated to do, it's because the ability to do what he can do is hidden from you. You can say that I'm deluded and knock my karma down to minus 10,000.

In the end your only lying to yourself about how well you understand his magic system

I know that you can not understand what I'm saying. For the most part, you can only go as far with magic as you can on an intellectual level. Not on a spirtual one, you can't deal with it, it's too much power.

It's too much power because the negative characteristics of the four elements is too great inside you and that's why you don't make any progress towards mastering and understanding the mental exercises.

You say magic doesn't work, how can you prove it does. It doesn't work because you only talk about it. You only go as far with it, as you can go by talking about it and not really doing it.

He says right in the book, you can read the book, but if you don't commit to really working it, you get nowhere.

Look at your commitment to it and in that you'll see the reason why magic doesn't work for you
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 02:09:33 AM by Melchizedek »

January 01, 2012, 09:11:41 AM
Reply #417

Akenu

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I actually see that interesting . Read every of melchizedek's messages and imagine someone says that to him. I think his sub-c wants to tell him something.

January 01, 2012, 11:15:36 AM
Reply #418

MariusAnil

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@ Steve: to phase the intense skepticism of those organisations you would need double blind statistical analysis type experiments like this one :biggrin:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassandra-vieten/esp-evidence_b_795366.html.
Life is energy with purpose.

January 01, 2012, 12:25:00 PM
Reply #419

ArcaTuthus

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This has now descended to bickering of Kindergarten levels. Now, while this might be indicative of the intellectual depth one would come to expect from hermetic mages, it would be nice if we didn't do it on the forums in such an obvious display. :)

And should you find that offensive, just remember; I am not the one mashing randomly at my keyboard with the caps lock on.

I'd like to call myself someone who follows hermetic lineage, but I have to also agree with you. On a side note, I have learned that NOTHING on the internet is ever really offensive, unless you bring your self down to the level of being offended. Really we just offend ourselves. It is kind of sad that something like Hermetics, which should be viewed as a beautiful way to bring harmony, peace, and clarity into ones life, is constantly being represented by these kinds of displays simply because false ego (I know what magic REALLY is, NO I DO!! NO,ME ME ME!!!) is running rampant. Ego needs to be sublimated in my very humble opinion, which doesn't mean eliminated mind you, but instead put under conscientious control. This means when someone is posting ridiculous things to basically tease us, we simply don't respond, go meditate, and put our minds onto the priorities we have deemed appropriate for ourselves all the while being able to have meaningful discussions amongst our fellow people.

Now pull your magic carpet square out because it is naptime  :P
And how!