Poll

Are You practicing the Steps in Initiaion into Hermetics?

Yes, very strictly.
46 (15.5%)
Yes, mixed with my other practices.
112 (37.8%)
Kinda, of and on again.
53 (17.9%)
No, it doesn't fit with me.
49 (16.6%)
No, What is IIH?
28 (9.5%)
No, don't have the time.
8 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 296

Author Topic: Who is Practicing the IIH?  (Read 569228 times)

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June 14, 2011, 06:24:18 PM
Reply #255

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Like I said, a gilded cage is still a cage.

Whether you build shackles or monuments, you are still working with something that fundamentally attaches you.

Whether your "flavor" is strawberry or peppermint, it's still there to draw your senses.

And speaking from the perspective of someone who's ultimate goal is liberation, one would have to shed ALL karma, good and bad.

I just wanted to throw out that perspective.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 06:28:39 PM by Searching »
"For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was." - Captain Barbossa, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

June 14, 2011, 07:18:20 PM
Reply #256

Mindlessinvalid

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True good deeds are actions of non-attachment,

I think you are thinking in a way that is too rigid.

Not even the gods understand karma.

Besides, the wheel of re-incarnation is built upon negative karma. We don't come back to maya if we are fulfilled, we come back to maya because we regret having done or not having done something.

The dissolution of ALL karma is impossible, because Karma itself is the effect of living in this universe on any level.

Everything is subject to karma, without exception.
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June 14, 2011, 07:30:15 PM
Reply #257

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I think you are thinking in a way that is too rigid.

It's not a personal belief. But I don't believe in appropriating terms and then defining them however we want. If we're going to use "karma", well that has a certain set of meanings. We can't just pick and choose "well I'm going to believe that I don't want bad karma, and stick with good karma, and still be spiritual".

Or maybe you can. Whatever.

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Not even the gods understand karma.

Well, *ahem*, "strictly" speaking the gods are still bound by karma as well. There is a whole "god realm" in Tibetan Buddhism. Sure, it might be nice. They might spend a looooooooooong time up there. But they are still going to reincarnate. They are still going for a ride. They have not escaped. They are not truly liberated. They might be high and mighty today, but tomorrow they next round of musical chairs begins.

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Besides, the wheel of re-incarnation is built upon negative karma. We don't come back to maya if we are fulfilled, we come back to maya because we regret having done or not having done something.

I don't proclaim to be an expert, but I think you have picked and chosen a bit too often for too long.

ALL karma creates attachment, creates chains that bind you. Good and bad.

We escape maya after we have resolved all of our karma. That means good and bad.

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The dissolution of ALL karma is impossible, because Karma itself is the effect of living in this universe on any level.

Well I guess if you pick that belief, it is so ;)

I'm just here to drop by some perspective from groups that actually use the term "karma", and have for a long time, before it got appropriated and defined by others.

Maybe I've been a historian or a linguist in a past life, but I think knowing a word's origins is valuable.

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Everything is subject to karma, without exception.

Well yeah. Until you are liberated :P
"For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was." - Captain Barbossa, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

June 14, 2011, 08:47:38 PM
Reply #258

Mindlessinvalid

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I guess where I'm going with this is that my understanding of karma is that every action will generate it.

If stabbing a person generates karma, and giving him a sandwich also generates karma, then what action would not?

It can't be inaction, because that too would create karma.

The premise of your beliefs are faulty, because if karma is the cause/effect relationship that drives the creative, formative, and manifest worlds, then how can we escape it at all beyond total gnosis?

Even then, liberation is a selfish goal.

I guess between someone who could achieve liberation but didn't and someone who did achieve liberation but never re-incarnated so as to help others up, I'd see the former as pitiable, but the latter as a total jerk.
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June 14, 2011, 08:58:34 PM
Reply #259

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I guess where I'm going with this is that my understanding of karma is that every action will generate it.

If stabbing a person generates karma, and giving him a sandwich also generates karma, then what action would not?

It can't be inaction, because that too would create karma.

Exactly.

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The premise of your beliefs are faulty, because if karma is the cause/effect relationship that drives the creative, formative, and manifest worlds, then how can we escape it at all beyond total gnosis?

Well first off, they aren't my beliefs. I'm just relaying my understand of karma from my understanding of the Buddhist perspective.

For how to escape it, you'd have to ask about Buddhism. I stopped reading right at that point  :P

Eightfold path, right living, middle way, direct insight, something or another.

All I know is that a Buddha does not generate karma when a Buddha acts. Further clouding the issue, from the Buddhist view a person IS their karma. When all their karma gets resolved, there is no more person. And yet there is a buddha?

Well that's all part of non-duality :P

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Even then, liberation is a selfish goal.

Eh, duality :P

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I guess between someone who could achieve liberation but didn't and someone who did achieve liberation but never re-incarnated so as to help others up, I'd see the former as pitiable, but the latter as a total jerk.

Well, a bunch of different ways to look at it. If you believe what you hear, some buddhas do reincarnate specifically to help. But some don't.
"For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was." - Captain Barbossa, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

June 15, 2011, 07:45:30 AM
Reply #260

Jesse9209

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Not reincarnating doesn't mean that a being isn't helping other beings. By simply attaining to liberation negative energies are dissolved and it acts as a sort of blessing on the whole world. Evolution is much faster for beings who are in higher realms and who have attained liberation meaning the spiritual practices they perform naturally spread spiritual energy and light to the worlds below them. So in that way non reincarnating beings still have a tremendous impact on the world. Also there are many different spiritual realms and spheres such beings could go to to help beings in those realms or spheres who need aid just as much if not more than our world.

Also I believe in Veos article on raja yoga he talked about how no karma is created once one reaches dharma megha samadhi.  (An incredibly high spiritual attainment of which I have only heard of two individuals to have attained it.)

June 18, 2011, 07:39:36 AM
Reply #261

Evin

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I found a webpage that contains the vibrational state of being of each of the 10 steps from IIH. Scroll down to the divine vibration menu for the 10 steps and click each one. You can feel the vibrartory state that you would be at, if you completed each step of IIH correctly.

http://www.franzbardon.net/english/bardon.htm

The .gifs are all the same. Same directory, same filename, same size, etc. There is nothing different except the page title.

So how can the vibrations be different if the pics are the same?

ETA on topic, I'm looking into this. The basics will help, no matter what path I take. But the last thing I want to do is merge with the jewish tribal 'god', if that is the God spoken of by Bardon.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 08:01:28 AM by Evin »

July 05, 2011, 07:29:35 PM
Reply #262

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There really isn't such a thing as good or bad karma, karma is just karma, karma is the force that drives us back towards God.  Whether your chains are made of lead or gold, you are still chained down.  When you act, it creates waves, cause and effect, and what one needs to learn is to "move with grace" so they don't produce any more "waves".

I'm by no means liberated (that I know of at least) or beyond karma yet, I am just passing on what I have been taught about karma so that it may help others understand to a degree.

July 06, 2011, 04:07:25 AM
Reply #263

SnakePlisskin

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An interesting side point is that animals don't suffer Karma.
This means that we suffer karma because we can decide, and make a choice.
Whereas an animal acts mostly out of instinct.

But one doesn't get Karma for every little thing !! Karma especially negative Karma is applied with compassion, and understanding, and not so much that the person is badly damaged- spiritually.

The object of Karma is for a persons growth, or to facilitate the growth of a person. And not wallop somebody when they do a wrong thing.

Another point to notice is that negative karma usually comes back to a person more quickly.
Positive Karma comes back much more slowly, but you will get ten times the value of positive karma for the good you have done.


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July 06, 2011, 08:05:17 AM
Reply #264

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We all have a pre-destined outcome in life. I know now that to be true. The idea of karma being some type of either good or bad suffering, really comes down to how reluctant or stubborn you are to accpet your life's plan.

If you can find what your meant to do in this life, everything ends up effortless.

I think about Franz Bardon, he knew that he wasa going to perish at the hands of the communists in the 50's and he definitely accepted it.

It seems weird, because he had these tremendous books that he was alowed to write, yet he wasn;t allowed to live on as a teacher of the material in them.

Almost as if these magic books are a secret, that only a select few where allowed to decipher

In some cases knowing what your life's plan is, could be very painful such as in his case.

July 06, 2011, 08:06:31 AM
Reply #265

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Another point to notice is that negative karma usually comes back to a person more quickly.
Positive Karma comes back much more slowly, but you will get ten times the value of positive karma for the good you have done.

I disagree with this, karma is a facet of nature, and I believe nature is balanced, so I also think karma is balanced.

To me it is a 1:1 Ratio.

The only reason the negative is responded to quicker is because the actions which caused it are more direct.

If you punch someone they are probably going to punch you back right away, it is something set in that particular moment in time.

Whereas for example preventing someone for falling to their deaths, or pushing them to their deaths are actions which affects that persons entire future, and so that restored balance is spread over that much larger area.

At least that is what I think, if that makes any sense.

July 06, 2011, 06:27:44 PM
Reply #266

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As Trismegistos stated, there is no good or bad karma. Karma can be equated to desires that need to be destroyed or fulfilled, that keep you away from the souls only true desire; union with God. A lifetime of suffering, and a lifelong true friendship can both burn off these desires. "Good" Karma could actually be seen as more difficult because it is easier to fail to notice that it is desire other than union with God, so it may take longer to burn off that desire. So, if you had a lifetime of easy riches, never struggling with financial issues, you might have been better able to perceive that worldly gain is useless living a life of poverty. The desire for money is the karma which needs to be destroyed in this instance, but it can be realized either through good fortune or bad.
And how!

July 11, 2011, 02:30:13 AM
Reply #267

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Karma is just infection getting us down, if you release yourself from bounds of this artificial virus, you will gain what was lost :).

July 14, 2011, 05:42:36 PM
Reply #268

SnakePlisskin

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It seems weird, because he had these tremendous books that he was alowed to write, yet he wasn;t allowed to live on as a teacher of the material in them.

Yes it does seem strange, but much of what is in Bardons books was transcribed from manuscripts, and from tapes, hence some errors.
But regarding as to why he did not teach more? I think his books helped with this fact, as I think he would of liked to have taught more. But Bardons real work was a divine mission, and an absolutely huge one at that, even for an initiate like him.

The second world war, I think 50 million died, and the amount of negative energy this created would be inconceivable to us. Its not just the deaths, but the suffering, fear, rage, sadness- the list is simply huge.

Bardon was supposed to have done colossal work for humankind, to help with this exponential negativity, and teaching students largely took a back seat to this. 


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August 04, 2011, 11:51:01 PM
Reply #269

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I remember uptaking the task of studying and practicing Hermetics using Initiation into Hermetics, but I keep thinking that in order to really advance in the subject one really needs to help of a Guru or else you're never going to advance. I think the only thing I really did get to master was the art of "Visualization" I learned how to visualize all the colors and a lot of images to the point where I can practically visualize scenarios almost like lucid dreaming in my awake state. It took a lot of practice, but I eventually got it after a couple of months. I remember I would always practice while we weren't doing anything in class in High School, I would just start meditating at random practicing how to visualize until I eventually became pretty good at it.

I also mastered how to control my thoughts by applying other practices to it such as "Zen Buddhism" and Thelemic practices like "Liber III vel Jugorvm". I don't think I'll ever be able to fully master the Hermetics though without a trained Guru. I got this idea from once thinking that I knew how to use this thing called the Mer - Ka - Ba by following the instructions on the Meditation page, I always convinced I knew how to use it, but then I met an actual master that knew how to use it and I noticed I was way off and just being delusional I didn't know how to use it the whole time. This started making me think how many things I probably think I'm adept at doing just by following the steps on a meditation guide and not actually mastering the subject I think I'm mastering. You should consider finding Guru's on these areas of studies, you might think you're a master at a certain thing just by following the steps on a guide and then you meet a master and you realize you were way off.