Poll

Are You practicing the Steps in Initiaion into Hermetics?

Yes, very strictly.
46 (15.7%)
Yes, mixed with my other practices.
112 (38.2%)
Kinda, of and on again.
52 (17.7%)
No, it doesn't fit with me.
48 (16.4%)
No, What is IIH?
27 (9.2%)
No, don't have the time.
8 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 293

Author Topic: Who is Practicing the IIH?  (Read 540181 times)

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July 10, 2008, 10:39:33 PM
Reply #45

nublado

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greetings all, this is my first post, and it's fantastic to find so many taking this path to heart.  I have a few questions for other aspirants of the I.I.H.

1.  To what lengths should a magician go, to protect the secret of his mirrors, and his journal?  What if another person were to find and attempt to decipher the meaning behind a magicians mirrors?  What danger can this pose to the aspirant and magician alike?  I myself have been somewhat careful, only writing in my journal in various occult scripts, which is cumbersome and less easily reviewed to my inexperience, than is the common Arabic script.

2.  A somewhat lighter question =)  , Bardon never mentions soap while bathing.  But one would assume that if the soap is non-comedogenic (doesn't clog the pours) then it shouldn't be a problem.  What are your views on this?


July 11, 2008, 05:05:16 AM
Reply #46

Aunt Clair

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So has anyone here done anything thats worth taking note of from the full body elemental pore-breathing?
Full body pore breathing is a useful exercise . The magician may become all one element or one gender or polarity through the expulsion of elemental energies and the influence of others . Pore breathing can assist this endeavour . Pore breathing is useful to heal or comfort self with temperature . Swollen injuries may feel better when chilled and that linjured limb can take ice water energy into the pores . When a sudden chill such as an unusual storm or wind occurs , pore breathing can warm self somewhat . When a bee stings cold water energy can ease the swelling when physical water is unavailable . When emergency first aid is required healing can be strengthened by pore breathing too . A hand can be made cold through pore breathing and cold water energy can be brought down the crown to the heart and to the palm also . So the hand becomes more fully water energy .

Also, does one have to have a certain spiritual progression within themself in order to manifest magical abilities, even as a child? To answer your question, I meant abilities already available.

I must talk to others about practicing IIH irregularly and out of order. I read somewhere that someone did it, yes not a very solid excuse is it, hmmm... I suppose I must only overcome my own laziness.
Like most readers of IIH you have discovered that some work in the  initial steps is naturally occurring and already accomplished to the degree you wish to tackle it . That is fine . There is a hierarchy of dfficulty so that later steps are harder but skipping ahead is not dangerous . Skipping around a lot would probably make you less effective . But if you feel you have the prerequisite skills to tackle a later step, do that . Others have . And sometimes they go back and choose to do the entire book later on.

So I disagree with comments that IIH must be followed strictly . I have been doing this a long time . I have practiced magick longer than most of such naysayers have lived on this planet. I have completed IIH and gone back and facilitated 2 peer groups in the completion of the steps . At this forum, I have endured much derision from this sort . Ignore it . You can do it any way you like .

It is not impossible nor is one an adept in all areas when they have completed the 10 Step Path . In other magical forums such as the pre hack Occult Forums it was recommended to complete the 10 Step Path of the Magician as a scaffolding for other branches of magick too and not just for the use of Hermetics . IIH lends itself of course to Alchemy ,Kabballah and  Ceremonial Magick specifically and generally to Metaphysics and Magick pathworking . Magicians from  other branches have chosen which sections to complete within IIH too.

If you find that you can not complete a part of a step because of the inability to obtain prerequisite material by all means substitute . The many metals required to construct Bardon's magick mirror are inordinately expensive and involved to acquire . One online peer did do this before the great  hack on OF and he posted an image of his mirror . But others used another method to scry and to evoke . The point is that you learn to evoke and scry. The point is not to paint a mirror with expensive hard to get metals .

And there are minor bits that you may choose to avoid because of moral quandries which might be skipped without any impact  such as entering hte mind of another without permission . Many of my peers ask for permission because it is inherently wrong to be invasive like this and seems to be out of character for Bardon to suggest it . Also creating a creature with a built in kill date is unnecessary once you know what you are doing . It is true that the natural decay can cause a benevolent creature to become aggressive and chaotic and this is why the decay is dated but there are ways around this and why kill a pet if it is not necessary . It is offputting to even begin the step when you have to consider killing this creature you become affectionate towards . And it is morally repugnant .

And there are specialist bits and also expert bits that Bardon intimates he has only either heard of or seen but could not do himself .

Those who can not complete a task have often attempted to impose such constraints upon others claiming it is too hard . IIH need not be done strictly in the right order and it is not impossible to complete IIH in one lifetime . Bardon begins the book saying that it is possible to complete IIH and suggests some steps will be done in a few months
In Magick, will , intention and visualisation must confirm to you that you can do it .

greetings all, this is my first post, and it's fantastic to find so many taking this path to heart.  I have a few questions for other aspirants of the I.I.H.1.  To what lengths should a magician go, to protect the secret of his mirrors, and his journal?  What if another person were to find and attempt to decipher the meaning behind a magicians mirrors?  What danger can this pose to the aspirant and magician alike?  I myself have been somewhat careful, only writing in my journal in various occult scripts, which is cumbersome and less easily reviewed to my inexperience, than is the common Arabic script.
In days of persecution such as the burning times it ws necessary for magicians to be secretive . And some feel that this is still important.But curiously today the excuse of TACERE is used to not have to prove one knows what one is talking about magically . So neophytes and novices can hide behind this secrecy "rule" and pretend to be adepts telling others how to do it when they never have done it themselves . Today this has become a popular past time online .

And I subscribe to a different  translation of the Motto of the Sphinx that says Tacere means to hold onto meaning without words rather than be silent . That is in trance we often see better than we hear so it can mean to see visions and know meaning when words can not be heard . It could also mean to understand without having to read it again or hear it again .
Quote
2.  A somewhat lighter question =)  , Bardon never mentions soap while bathing.  But one would assume that if the soap is non-comedogenic (doesn't clog the pours) then it shouldn't be a problem.  What are your views on this?
Soap can be imbibed and used to manifest also . For example , in IIH Bardon teaches how to imbibe what we digest and what we excrete. What we wash off or out of us can be charged magically too . There is an old song from South Pacific "I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair " We can wash something or someone out of our lives and our universe . Pore breathing can be done with clean skin better than with dirty skin too . I  suppose dirt would really block the pores causing skin infections such as acne . Where as soap could cleanse them or block the pores as you suggest . And there are soaps such as Neutrogena which rinse clear .
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 06:14:05 AM by Aunt Clair »
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July 11, 2008, 11:49:11 AM
Reply #47

nublado

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In days of persecution such as the burning times it ws necessary for magicians to be secretive . And some feel that this is still important.But curiously today the excuse of TACERE is used to not have to prove one knows what one is talking about magically . So neophytes and novices can hide behind this secrecy "rule" and pretend to be adepts telling others how to do it when they never have done it themselves . Today this has become a popular past time online .

And I subscribe to a different  translation of the Motto of the Sphinx that says Tacere means to hold onto meaning without words rather than be silent . That is in trance we often see better than we hear so it can mean to see visions and know meaning when words can not be heard . It could also mean to understand without having to read it again or hear it again .
Thank you very much for your words, I agree with them very much  :)

My background is not in the western hermetic traditions, but in Buddhism, specifically in vipassana meditation.  It's very important to me that I don't portray myself as knowing more than I do.  When I consider the "rule of silence" I must admit that I have no option but to use the filter of my past experiance with Buddhism, to understand its necessity.  But let me rephrase, silence doesn't seem to be useful in that it protects some secret, it is only that it is useless to speak about a thing which cannot be examined and easily demonstrated using objective science and observation.  It doesn't mean that the experiance of certain mindstates is illusory, only that the words will never capture the reality of the experiance. 

For me, I tend to look at it, not as protection of the self, but of protection of others which might not understand your words, and indeed, who might be soured in their own search in some way due to misunderstanding of your words.  Expectation, frustration, and disappointments can arise in such a case, and can be powerfully detrimental to a neophytes development.  Also, silence is a great tool to work with in restraining the ego, and the negative aspects of the air and fire elements.

I was unclear in my question.  What I meant to ask, is what kind of danger is an aspirant in, were his journal and mirrors (at least the physical depiction of the mirrors in the Magicians journal) to be acquired by a person ill disposed toward the magician, and to what extremes should a Magician resort, when protecting his mirrors from such a person?   

July 11, 2008, 07:29:34 PM
Reply #48

Kichara

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If they are well made mirrors then it gives one a comlete map of your mental self and a little farther considering how detailedly you make your mirror. I have had some one read parts of my firs journal aloud to a group of highschool kids. AKA it can also be VERY humiliating. Since then I have become much more careful though.

The main risk is that, like with anyone, if someone finds a journal of exactly who you are, if it is up to date they then have all they need to control you by your weaknesses and your fears. They also know which good aspects thy would need to whittle down so they canmanipulate you with more ease.

The point is more of an astral/mental cleaning than the physical one. Use soap, you want the physical body to be as healthy as can be with out taking time out of your practice to reach the next body.


@ Aunt Clair

Do not bring your personal scuffles into this poll or I will sadly have to delete it. However I will say that if one COMPLETED the IIH they should have complete control over the physical world.

Quote
Also creating a creature with a built in kill date is unnecessary once you know what you are doing . It is true that the natural decay can cause a benevolent creature to become aggressive and chaotic and this is why the decay is dated but there are ways around this and why kill a pet if it is not necessary . It is offputting to even begin the step when you have to consider killing this creature you become affectionate towards . And it is morally repugnant .

If I can understand the idea that death is no different than birth, then you with your claimed "experience" should be able to understand this as well.

If you wish to respond to this do so in PM please.

Namaste
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July 30, 2008, 11:29:22 AM
Reply #49

AB

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I'm trying out the IIH, making a soul map (if thats what its called) right now...
Meep.

July 30, 2008, 11:47:16 AM
Reply #50

Hech

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Soul Mirror. Those are good, but make sure to stay on thought control until you've truly mastered it. That can take awhile. Hatha yoga helps, but it's hard. Don't burn yourself out with too much practice at first.

July 30, 2008, 04:45:49 PM
Reply #51

Steve

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1.  To what lengths should a magician go, to protect the secret of his mirrors, and his journal?  What if another person were to find and attempt to decipher the meaning behind a magicians mirrors?  What danger can this pose to the aspirant and magician alike?  I myself have been somewhat careful, only writing in my journal in various occult scripts, which is cumbersome and less easily reviewed to my inexperience, than is the common Arabic script.
The Mirrors are your strengths and weaknesses, and your journal is a record of your experiences. If you found such writings from someone else, imagine the things you could do with those in order to either help or harm that person.

At the very least, you would know their weaknesses at the time they jotted them down.


Aunt Clair's statements of being able to jump around in the IIH progression is a little incorrect. The first few steps are the basics and should be done in the order they are prescribed and in the manner they are prescribed. Not doing so can cause difficulties in your developments as they are like the trunk of the tree of your development. When you get to the step where you are trying to learn a specific "ability", I forget which one, is when it is not so bad to jump around because then you are just picking and choosing which branches you wish to have on your trunk.

However, remember that they are in a certain order for a reason and while Aunt Clair claims to have taught and learned with others in rather eclectic manners, the few Hermetic magicians here who clearly blow Aunt Clair out of the water in both ability and learning strongly advocate a strict adherance to the IIH, if the aspirant desires to practice straight up hermetics. After the IIH comes other books by Franz Bardon which, for practical purposes, require a pretty much complete command of the practices and theories found in the IIH.

~Steve
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 04:57:21 PM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

July 31, 2008, 10:23:08 AM
Reply #52

Shinichi

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I am currently on Step One (just started, again... <got distracted the last time>), but I'm mixing in Koboks Beginners Qigong, and some of Prophecy's Daily Practices (Divine Intervention and Japa are two notable ones). I'm also considering Yoga, but I haven't read Veos' article on it yet, so I don't know if I can or not.

So, I voted "Yes, mixed with my other practices." ~_^



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August 13, 2008, 07:01:36 PM
Reply #53

Kichara

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You can always do more practices. It is only whether you choose to or not.
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August 14, 2008, 07:23:22 AM
Reply #54

Reslith

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I am (re) reading it.  I have practiced meditation for years so although not perfected I have experience with thought control, am trying to take my time and meticulously journal the mirrors at this point.

August 16, 2008, 12:40:49 PM
Reply #55

Shadow_Dragon

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I was able to get about 70 right off the bat, but I think I was too detailed.
For the mirrors, how detailed must they be? Specific events or just bad qualities?
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. -Sun Tzu

When the Mind is clear and still, all things under Heaven fall into place. -Lao Tzu

Drink your cup alone, though it taste of blood and tears, and praise God for the gift of taste. -Almustafa

August 16, 2008, 02:22:33 PM
Reply #56

Kichara

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the more specific the better. I have 190 on one list and somewhere around 140-160 on the other.   

Quote
Begin, as Bardon advises, with the analysis of your negative traits.  Write down absolutely everything that comes to mind, no matter how insignificant it may seem.  Place yourself back into the different events of your life and see what there is to find.  Keep track during each day of items that arise in the present.  Meditate each day about who you are and in this way build a deep understanding of your negative side.

Franz Bardon suggests that you continue this analysis until you have a list of at least 100 items.  Many people balk at this total, but I concur that this is a good standard to shoot for.  If you find your list growing beyond 100 items, then go with it and continue until you feel satisfied that you have completely uncovered everything.  If you find it difficult to make 100 items, then continue relentlessly until you do.

From The Bardon Companion .com http://www.abardoncompanion.com/IIH-Step1.html
He also warns right after this to only focus on this process for each mirror for 2 weeks. after that don't focus on the bad list that much and then focus on the white list. continue to list any bad aspects you notice over time, but don't focus on doing it.

Quote
Make notes of all your weaknesses, down to the finest
nuances and variations. The more you are discovering, all the better for you. Nothing must
remain hidden, nothing unrevealed, however insignificant or great your faults or frailties may
be. Some especially endowed disciples have been able to discover hundreds of failures in the
finest shades. Disciples like these possessed a good meditation and a deep penetration into
their own souls. Wash your soul perfectly clean; sweep all the dust out of it.

This is from in Franz Bardon's directions for making the mirrors. I notice that many people seem to miss or unintentionally ignore this end of a paragraph. Also, when one says "hundreds" it means like 200 or 300 not just into the hundred range. If you have more and more faults and all the shades of each fault, then it cuts each larger aspect into smaller pieces to chew when you get to that point. Like I am apathetic, but I don't know how to just tackle apathy and change it into compassion. However, there are plenty of smaller habits that are living under the umbrella of Apathy that I do know how to transmute. So I am able to take a more realistic effort towards achieving compassion, or passion for life in general.



Oh just realized I didn't exactly answer your question ha! The bad quality is what you want but each event may be a different shade of that aspect and so is worth putting down.
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August 16, 2008, 05:08:14 PM
Reply #57

Shadow_Dragon

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The majority of it are events. I realize it isn't that effective, so I'm wondering how to take an event and write it as a weakness? And what if to different events are the result of the same weakness?
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. -Sun Tzu

When the Mind is clear and still, all things under Heaven fall into place. -Lao Tzu

Drink your cup alone, though it taste of blood and tears, and praise God for the gift of taste. -Almustafa

August 16, 2008, 05:44:08 PM
Reply #58

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Shadow Dragon, I believe the idea is to determine the patterns that link all of those individual events together. Most likely, they are not isolated events, but are somehow related to some character fault, such as hotheadedness or fool-hardiness. So, instead of looking at several events that say, ended up with you yelling at someone, you can probably safely assume that you have a temper that could use some work.
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August 16, 2008, 08:51:18 PM
Reply #59

Kichara

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usually if it is an event that you are looking at it will be a combination of different aspects. Like when I don't wake up at 5 so I can do meditations before going to school it isn't JUST laziness. There is also pleasure seeking, avoiding responsibility, and a lack of planning in this situation. so I would list all of those. If you don't think that you have covered that event well enough then you probably are missing something, or you need to add"I over think things" ;P

Remember not to let the list make you depressed, that not only makes you add another thing to your mirror, but it keeps you from making a Mirror and makes it into a List. The Soul Mirrors are mirrors because they are supposed to represent a true you, just like when you wake up in the morning and you see yourself as what you are whether you like it or not at that moment.

The point is to list the weaknesses, there really shouldn't be events on the actual Mirror. Writing them down can help you remember how many time you have done this or that, but you are not listing events.

If it is the same weakness in 2 different events then that just means it is more common in you. this is why you list aspects and not events.
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