Author Topic: Demon Worship  (Read 116224 times)

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January 07, 2008, 03:12:04 AM
Reply #15

Veos

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Veos: If you were to treat a Demon in the way you described, wouldn't it actually provoke the Demon even more because you are assigning negative thoughts and damning him out of hate or some such?

    Demons will like you all the same whether you greet them politely or bind them down with curses.  The difference is that if you treat a demon with respect, you come under an illusion and forget what exactly it is you are dealing with.  This is almost always the aim of a demon in an evokation.  If you bind it with curses and seals then both you and the demon will remember who stands where.  The magician who does this does not fall under the illusions of the demon.  The creature will beg for mercy, plea for help, act pitiful and helpless, assume various forms that have meaning to the magician (such as a lost friend), and act as humanely as possible so that the magician will break for just a second and have pity on the creature.  They are master actors, and this is what they want.  When this happens, the mind becomes like an open gate and the aura like a breached wall.  It will then not be long before he removes the city guards as well! 
Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham

January 07, 2008, 03:21:07 PM
Reply #16

solstice

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I've never seen a friendly demon.  Ever.  It seems to me, that they make it a point to not feel nice, or at least that has been my experience.
Why would someone WANT to have one around, when they could as effectively get things done themselves?
Also, I dont believe in good or evil, and neither do angels and demons.  It's their reference to us that creates the impression of alignment.  I am sure we seem evil to them.

Tell all the Truth but tell it slant: Success in Circuit lies.  Too bright for our infirm Delight. The Truth's superb surprise. As Lightning to the Children eased, with explanation kind.  The Truth must dazzle gradually, or every man be blind.
Tefeari: The Giant Impact Hypothesis is a theory

January 07, 2008, 05:16:08 PM
Reply #17

Steve

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Well, on the other hand if you're abusing the demon then the demon is already winning. How you treat others, regardless of whether they "deserve" it or expect it, speaks volumes about your own self.

You can treat another being formally without letting your defenses drop.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

January 07, 2008, 05:23:36 PM
Reply #18

Oriens Lvx Lucis

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Well, on the other hand if you're abusing the demon then the demon is already winning. How you treat others, regardless of whether they "deserve" it or expect it, speaks volumes about your own self.

You can treat another being formally without letting your defenses drop.

~Steve

The problem in that opinion lies in that it is true with humans, but not with demons.  Humans are not demons.  Don't personify demons; demons, whether or not you can imagine it, are incapable of being "kind" (kind being the definition of benevolence from the usual human perspective).

However, I am going on theory here.  I've spoken with angels and elementals; not demons, therefore what I say on this subject is theory only. 

January 07, 2008, 09:41:57 PM
Reply #19

Steve

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I think you totally missed the point. Reread it.

Or I missed yours, but after rereading your post I still don't see how it applies to mine.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

January 07, 2008, 09:48:57 PM
Reply #20

IsApOs

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Steve: Even the highest adepts encourage such treatment of the demons. If you treat a dog like a human it will assume it has the same rights as a human, it will eat your food off the table and will defaecate in your house. However, if you treat it like a dog then it will know its place and be well aware of its purpose. Does teaching a dog that its place is to eat from the floor and play outside make one a bad person? Certainly you would not say so.

Demons are evil and vile creatures, who's only aim is to subjugate the magician and reduce him to a shell of his former self. They are unfit to stand in the presence of angels and certainly God. They are putrid beings and they have earned their position to be treated as such.

Namaste

January 07, 2008, 10:00:09 PM
Reply #21

Steve

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There's a huge difference between teaching a being it's "place" (according to your worldview, which is also subjective), and abusing another being. You don't abuse the dog in order to teach it; it would go feral after a while and attack you or someone else if it's afraid of you.

Also, house breaking it allows it to play indoors and deficate indoors without making a mess.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

January 07, 2008, 10:07:37 PM
Reply #22

Yoh4397

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Steve: Even the highest adepts encourage such treatment of the demons. If you treat a dog like a human it will assume it has the same rights as a human, it will eat your food off the table and will defaecate in your house. However, if you treat it like a dog then it will know its place and be well aware of its purpose. Does teaching a dog that its place is to eat from the floor and play outside make one a bad person? Certainly you would not say so.

Demons are evil and vile creatures, who's only aim is to subjugate the magician and reduce him to a shell of his former self. They are unfit to stand in the presence of angels and certainly God. They are putrid beings and they have earned their position to be treated as such.

Namaste

Demons are nothing but a tainted soul right? So then they should be someone like a human because there is always a light that creates the dark......right?

January 07, 2008, 10:21:14 PM
Reply #23

IsApOs

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Demons are not ensouled beings. In fact it is the soul of the magician they are after due to it's tetrapolar nature (having the 4 elements present). Being slave to a demon is the ultimate curse, which usually befalls initiates of Black Magick, and is indeed, the definition of Hell.

Steven: I can see that no amount of metaphor and discussion will convince you otherwise so I suggest, if you are so certain, evoke a demon and treat it as a friend, then report to us your results. For if you are right, then you will have proven centuries of Adepts to be ignorant fools.

Namaste
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 10:26:44 PM by IsApOs »

January 07, 2008, 11:45:40 PM
Reply #24

Yoh4397

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so they are only made up of fire and wind or something?

So I thought all souls were equal, coming from the ocean of light in Kether? How can we be different?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 12:27:39 AM by Yoh4397 »

January 08, 2008, 07:51:09 AM
Reply #25

Oriens Lvx Lucis

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Steven,

 My point was that humans are deserving of all that you mentioned in your posts, but demons are not.  Demons should not be treated like friends or humans.

January 08, 2008, 03:11:59 PM
Reply #26

Veos

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Quote
There's a huge difference between teaching a being it's "place" (according to your worldview, which is also subjective), and abusing another being. You don't abuse the dog in order to teach it; it would go feral after a while and attack you or someone else if it's afraid of you.

    This implies that you are dealing with a being who is capable of learning what is right and wrong.  A demon is not.
Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham

January 08, 2008, 03:40:09 PM
Reply #27

Steve

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"There is a reason why grimoires tell the magician to treat a Demon like a bastard slave with insults and curses."

Again, my point is that if you're being an asshole then it doesn't matter whether the sentient being deserves it or not, you're still degrading your own soul/morals. Try to justify it all you want with phrases like "there's no such thing as good or evil" or "the demon deserves what it gets" or "I'm just doing it to protect myself", but in truth your desire and willingness to enact pain and suffering onto others simply because "they're evil", especially when you've already bound them, makes you the disgusting one. As a being attempting to become more like the Divine you should be above the actions that would normally be attributed to evil.

I did not say befriend the demon. I said treat it with respect, ie in a similar manner that you would treat a shark with the respect it deserves as a being capable of eating you.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

January 08, 2008, 03:42:06 PM
Reply #28

Veos

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  Yuo are forgetting the essential nature of Demon though.  It is not a matter of respect or "feelings".  It is a matter of necessity. 
Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham

January 08, 2008, 07:46:32 PM
Reply #29

Steve

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It's necessary to degrade your own self by doing what a demon would do? I still don't buy that.

I've dealt with many people IRL who were complete pricks throughout the entire conversation and didn't change their minds at any point in time, but maintaining a biblically "Godly" internal state allowed me to deal with them in a much better manner than they were dealing with me, and which impressed others around me for not degrading to their level. If you think that dealing with demons means you "have" to become less than godly, then I guess the best advice is to never deal with demons simply for that reason alone.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?