Author Topic: Siddhis and chakras..  (Read 12097 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

December 29, 2007, 09:36:54 PM
Reply #15

Steve

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3685
  • Karma:
    139
    • View Profile
sigh93: A challenge, if you're up for it. Try and find any mention of Satan in ANY Kundalini source that is older than the year 1800. If it's not there, why would you hold onto such a new age notion?

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

December 30, 2007, 09:42:03 AM
Reply #16

Raitaro

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2151
  • Karma:
    0
  • Personal Text
    The Knight of Wands
    • View Profile
That is completely illogical.
  Steven does not acknowledge the existance of "Satan's tail". He has done nothing to suggest he thinks Kundhalini has no opposite and nothing to suggest he doesn't believe in Satan. It might be true that he does not think those things but you don't know that.
The IneptInitiate
http://xkcd.com/303/
http://xkcd.com/123/

I got a hot girl and the coolest band I know. I gotta bad habbit of smoking before the show.
I got music I got friends I trust and love. I get into a lot of fights and now my knuckles are all fucked up.....

December 30, 2007, 09:56:48 AM
Reply #17

sigh93

  • Settling In

  • Offline
  • *

  • 21
  • Karma:
    0
    • View Profile
"There is no such thing as "Satan's Tail"."

I wasn't just responding to Steven I was responding to three people.     
Tap from the clear fountain, not from the abyss of darkness.  - Bleeding Sun

Ritual consists of actions done with intent.  Meaning is irrelevant.  Interlectual understanding of the ritual and the chants is counterproductive to the fostering of faith and intent.  - Kali's Odiyya

December 30, 2007, 10:19:58 AM
Reply #18

Steve

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3685
  • Karma:
    139
    • View Profile
Quote from: Sight93
You are the one who wants to divorce the holy spirit from the bible and interpret it literally along with the guy above me who thinks there is no all seeing eye.
First of all, I do not "divorce" the Holy Spirit from the bible. The Holy Spirit is an intimate part of the bible and quite the opposite of your accusation I very much think the Holy Spirit of God is an important aspect to study both in the bible and in reality.

What I do NOT do with the Holy Spirit of the bible is try to claim that it is something else from some other paradigm, like Kundalini or Prana or the HGA or whatever else.

Regarding the all seeing eye, my thoughts are my own and my thoughts are that such metaphysical perceptions are not the result or mechanism of physical eyes. That does not necessarily mean that I agree with you, however. You need to realize there's more than two points to any disagreement.

Quote from: Sight93
As to Satan's tail it enslaves you while kundalini sets you free.  Saying Satan's tail doesn't exist is saying kundalini has no opposite and Satan doesn't exist. 
No, saying Satan's tail doesn't exist is to disregard new age ideology. The Kundalini system already has terminology that is appropriate to it's own language and system and doesn't need crap like satanism thrown into the mix because it will just confuse everyone regarding what the hell is to be expected from the process due to the intermingling of later religious ideology to ancient mystical analysis.

There are no reputable Eastern sources using the Western concept of "satan" to represent anything in the Eastern process of Kundalini. And more importantly, there is no reason to add such tripe to a system that is already complete and able to be understood in it's own paradigm.

If anyone reading this wishes to learn Kundalini, go find ancient Eastern sources rather than modern western sources to learn from. Specifically, you will need an instructor at one point which means you will need to travel if you do not already live in the area of India.

~Steve
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 10:22:02 AM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

December 30, 2007, 02:52:40 PM
Reply #19

Asguard

  • Settling In

  • Offline
  • *

  • 34
  • Karma:
    0
    • View Profile
I heard that you can develop the powers of the mental body and astral body (with kundalini), but you cant develop the powers of the etheric body and powers of the soul. Because ego still being in you.

January 04, 2008, 12:13:15 AM
Reply #20

Asguard

  • Settling In

  • Offline
  • *

  • 34
  • Karma:
    0
    • View Profile
Could mudras help to open and develop the chakras?

January 04, 2008, 01:41:37 AM
Reply #21

IsApOs

  • Veritas Furniture

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 265
  • Karma:
    0
    • View Profile
There are several mudras in modern circulation, which are said to have been designed specifically for energizing the chakras. However, I do not personally validate the majority of mudras that are so flamboyantly displayed in the public eye, since I believe they lose all spiritual significance and power when thrown around so carelessly by the uninitiated.

Namaste

January 04, 2008, 04:38:49 PM
Reply #22

Veos

  • Teacher Emeritus
  • Veritas Furniture

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 473
  • Karma:
    44
    • View Profile
Sigh, are you simply saying that Satan's tail is another word for Apana?  That's fine as long as you don't proclaim it as an evil energy.  The Energy in the spine that goes downward, as Kuji nicely pointed out, is called Apana.  There is nothing evil about this energy, and its direct control and mixing with the Prana Vayu at the point of the Samanu Vayu (Ghastric Fire in center of stomach) is proclaimed in the Kundalini Upanishad (The original source and authority on Kundalini) as being essential to the rising of the Kundalini and its initial awakening in Muladhara.  From the sounds of it, you have been reading material from someone who does not understand the operations of the spiritual bodies in Yogic terminology, and who has confused you due to a simple misunderstanding that resulted from as logical deduction and NOT a practical deduction.  For example, They learned some basic Yoga terminology and said "well, this energy goes up from the sexual organs to the head so it must be good, and the other energy goes from the head to the sexual energy so it must be bad and opposite to the other energy".  Then after time they just decided to say the so-called "good" energy was a God-like energy while the other was "satan's tail".  All in all, I have to agree that it is the result of a new-age writer who understood very little about the mechanical workings of Kundalini.

    Samael Aun Weor may be a recognized authority on Gnosticism, but he is not such for Yoga and should keep his focus on the things he knows and understands until further practice expands his understanding.  He just thought he saw a correlation between a Yoga concept and his gnostic thoughts and tried to write about it.  the result, as you are testifying in your responses, was obvious: confusion. 

    ~Veos
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 04:41:57 PM by Veos »
Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham

January 05, 2008, 12:19:31 AM
Reply #23

Aunt Clair

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1166
  • Karma:
    -50
    • View Profile
    • River of Enlightenment
Hello all

Well i read some books about the kundalini yoga, chakras and siddhis.

If you open a chakra (muladhara por example) you can got the powers of the muladhara (levitation and others), same with another chakras.

However that book said that if u want only powers, you never could get them. but in another sites i read that it doesn't matter u intentions or it doesn't matter if u want siddhis.

What is the thuth?

By the way.. sorry for my english
The siddhi abilities do come as the chakras are imbibed with light and when the chakras are full new chakras manifest . The spinal column is the main trunk of the Tree of Life but new branches and new trees are manifested on the working magician .

Wanting power will not stop a chakra working but negative energy can make a magician lose abilities . Magicians that use abilities to abuse or prey fill their chakras with negative emotions and negative energy . This causes the abilites to be lost . For example three magicians who flew together in an astral rape gang found themselves unable to project or see spirits anymore . They became negatively attached . The one of them that was already possessed got attached by another demon . They lost their ability to sleep peacefully too .Their mindscapes became nightly  nightmare of torment and fears . Many magicians have written about these dangers and how the magician who enters this downward spiral destroyes themselves with addictions , insanity , suicide etc .

.......~*~Love, Light & Laughter~*~
~*~Meditation & Mysticism is Magick!~*~

January 05, 2008, 12:35:38 AM
Reply #24

Asguard

  • Settling In

  • Offline
  • *

  • 34
  • Karma:
    0
    • View Profile
I understood it..

So. do u lose your siddhis for ever?

January 06, 2008, 02:13:17 AM
Reply #25

Aunt Clair

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1166
  • Karma:
    -50
    • View Profile
    • River of Enlightenment
I have met magicians who have performed Dark Arts and lost thier abilities without regaining them yet but I have also met others that gain them back again after life changes . For example a young female who was in an astral rape gang , she also trespassed in  dreamstates morphing and frightening other magicians . She lost all of her abilities but gained them back each time . Currently they are gone again . When I first met her she could project at will linking to a stranger and they would see her in their home and she could remote link , remote view , heal , see angels and spirits and talk to her deceased mother daily . Then she began to hurt people with her abilities and became bound and had nightly hellscapes walking in terror .
.......~*~Love, Light & Laughter~*~
~*~Meditation & Mysticism is Magick!~*~

January 06, 2008, 12:37:31 PM
Reply #26

Entity

  • Veritas Furniture

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 378
  • Karma:
    7
  • Personal Text
    : : A a U u M m : :
    • View Profile
    • United Psionics Club
The truth of this subject was put into words by Krishnamurti...

Quote
Meditation and Clairvoyance, or Siddhis
J. Krishnamurti Quotes



Masters, gurus, teachers, cannot help to free thought from its own self-imposed bondage and suffering; neither ceremonies, nor priests, nor organizations, can liberate thought from its attachments, fears, cravings; these may force it into a new mould and shape it, but thought can free itself only through its own critical awareness and self-reliance.

Extrasensory perception, clairvoyance, occult powers, cannot free thought from confusion and misery; sensitive awareness of our thoughts and motives, from which spring our speech and action, is the beginning of lasting understanding and love. Mere self-control, discipline, self-punishment, or renunciation, cannot liberate thought; but constant awareness and pliability give clarity and strength. Only in becoming aware of the cause of ignorance, in understanding the process of craving and its dual opposing values, is there freedom from suffering. This discerning awareness must begin in our life of relationship with things, people, and ideas, with our own hidden thoughts and daily action.

The way we think makes our life either complete or contradictory and unbalanced. Through awareness of craving, with its complex process, there comes an understanding; which brings detachment and serenity. Detachment or serenity is not an end in itself. In this world of frenzied buying and selling, whose economy is based on craving, unless thought is persistently aware, greed and envy bring the confusing and conflicting problems of possessions, attachment, and competition. Our private thoughts and motives can bring either harmony in our relationship or disturbance and pain. It depends on each one what he makes of relationship with another or with society. There can never be self-isolation, however much one may crave for it; relationship is ever continuous; to be is to be related.

1940 Notes on Sarobia Discussions
The Collected Works of J. Krishnamurti, Vol III


Look, Sirs, because the mind is quiet, the body becomes still, not the other way round. You force your body to sit still. You do all kinds of things to come upon this strange beauty of silence. Do not do it, just observe. Look, Sirs, you know in all this are various powers of clairvoyance, reading somebody’s thought. There are various powers, you know what I am talking about, don’t you? You call them siddhis, don’t you? Do you know all these things are like candles – candlelight in the sun? When there is no sun, there is darkness, and then the light of the candle is very important; but when there is the sun, the light, the beauty, the clarity, then all these powers, these siddhis, are like candlelight. They have no value at all. And when you have the light, there is nothing else – developing various centres, the charkas, kundalinis, you know all that business. You need a sane, logical, reasoning mind, not a stupid mind. A mind that is dull can sit for centuries breathing, concentrating on various charkas, and you know all that playing with kundalinis, - it can never come upon that which is timeless, that which is real beauty, truth and love.

So put aside the candlelight which all the gurus and the books offer you. And do not repeat a word that you yourself have not seen the truth of, which you yourself have not tested.

Krishnamurti in India 1970-71 Chapter 15 4th Public Talk, Bombay, p. 179, 180

So meditation has a significance. One must have this meditative quality of the mind, not occasionally but all day long. And that implies another thing, which is: this something that is sacred, not imagined, not fantastic, affects our lives not only during the waking hours but during sleep. And in this process of meditation there are all kinds of powers that come into being. One becomes clairvoyant, the body then becomes extraordinarily sensitive. Now clairvoyance, healing, thought transference and so on, becomes totally unimportant. All the occult powers become so utterly irrelevant and when you pursue those you are pursuing something that will ultimately lead to illusion. That is one factor.

4th Public Talk, Brockwood Park, 1975
“Truth & Actuality”, Chapter 9

And this link on kundalini also by Krishnamurti..

http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/kundalini.html
: : O m  N a m a h  S h i v a y a : :

January 06, 2008, 01:03:53 PM
Reply #27

Lightbringer

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Has a lot of posts

  • 793
  • Karma:
    0
  • Personal Text
    Spiritual Warrior
    • View Profile
Fantastic quotes Entity.  Just wanted to add that while I have no doubt that the idea of Satan's Tail is from sources outside of the Upanishads, it does present a deficiency in Indian philsophy regarding siddhis.  If disciplined, balanced, virtuous people gain powers, it is expected because those qualities are what balance the chakras.  Yet we have a completely opposite case where some of the most UNbalanced people are able to turn to "Dark Arts" and gain significant powers.  I've seen a truly frightening African shaman levitate just as yogis do (on youtube haha, but his less-than-serene frame of mind was evident), but clearly balanced chakras and a rising of the kundalini are not the cause.  Aleister Crowley was a master of witchcraft, but the man had some serious issues.  The list goes on, and clearly there is need for an explanation.

I could only guess that the kundalini is somehow forced up the spine but through unbalanced chakras, but would such a thing cause powers?  It seems like getting a car with flat tires and engine damage to run like one that is good as new.
The thing that really fascinates me about people is their ability to have no idea what's going on even though it's going on in plain sight all around them and the even more amazing tendency to argue violently when one of these obvious things is presented to them.

January 06, 2008, 02:43:34 PM
Reply #28

Entity

  • Veritas Furniture

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 378
  • Karma:
    7
  • Personal Text
    : : A a U u M m : :
    • View Profile
    • United Psionics Club
They are aren't they? Krishnamurti shared revolutionary ideas. Also, I happened to find the link you were talking about, as others may want to see it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW6pVFOpE6Q
: : O m  N a m a h  S h i v a y a : :

January 06, 2008, 03:16:28 PM
Reply #29

Raitaro

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2151
  • Karma:
    0
  • Personal Text
    The Knight of Wands
    • View Profile
Fantastic quotes Entity.  Just wanted to add that while I have no doubt that the idea of Satan's Tail is from sources outside of the Upanishads, it does present a deficiency in Indian philsophy regarding siddhis.  If disciplined, balanced, virtuous people gain powers, it is expected because those qualities are what balance the chakras.  Yet we have a completely opposite case where some of the most UNbalanced people are able to turn to "Dark Arts" and gain significant powers.  I've seen a truly frightening African shaman levitate just as yogis do (on youtube haha, but his less-than-serene frame of mind was evident), but clearly balanced chakras and a rising of the kundalini are not the cause.  Aleister Crowley was a master of witchcraft, but the man had some serious issues.  The list goes on, and clearly there is need for an explanation.

I could only guess that the kundalini is somehow forced up the spine but through unbalanced chakras, but would such a thing cause powers?  It seems like getting a car with flat tires and engine damage to run like one that is good as new.


 If you have the strength of will or vitality to actively seek power in such a way and you evoke a devil in the hope of making a pact with it to gain the powers then you will find that it will probably see you merely for the vitality and services it'll gain from you.
The IneptInitiate
http://xkcd.com/303/
http://xkcd.com/123/

I got a hot girl and the coolest band I know. I gotta bad habbit of smoking before the show.
I got music I got friends I trust and love. I get into a lot of fights and now my knuckles are all fucked up.....