Author Topic: Treatise On Black Magic  (Read 6856 times)

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June 18, 2007, 04:32:13 AM
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IsApOs

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Introduction
In my life I have been an apprentice of a variety of teachers, and have been a follower of a large number of paths. From Wicca, through the New Age movement, Shamanism to Mediumship, my journeys have brought me to rest in the pursuit of Hermetic Science. Whilst many of my paths have brought me to dead ends for one reason or another, there is one concept that is of huge concern within each. This concern is that of Black Magic. The people I have met and the lessons I have learned have been very different, but ask almost any teacher and they will avoid the topic altogether, or will tell you that it is not real (a very common feat amongst the New Age philosophy that “only love is exists.”)

The term “Black Magic” is a very broad definition, and far more comes under this scope than is generally realised. To the reader who believes they are about to find methods and practices for the use of Black Magic, you may turn away now. This essay seeks to explain a variety of definitions of Black Magic, so as to assist people in identifying if they are truly being subjected to it. I advise the reader to view Prophecy’s articles on Occult Warfare in conjunction with this piece in order to form a rounder understanding of the Dark Arts.

This essay will basically operate in the form of a list, giving a variety of different types of Black Magic, how they work, who uses them and how effective they are. I have tried to structure this in order of complexity, beginning with the simplest forms and proceeding upwards to the higher forms of Assault. Again I emphasise that this essay will not delve into techniques either in the use of Black Magic, nor in the defence against such things.

A brief definition would be useful before embarking upon this. Black Magic can be loosely defined, as the imposition of one will upon another. When one person uses their will to generate an effect on a second person against the second’s will, it is Black Magic. I would also like to define the term Magician. A Magician is a term given to a person who practices some form of esoteric art, and has aimed towards personal enlightenment and the servitude of mankind. A Black Magician is the exact opposite, one who longs for power and thinks of little but his own attainment.

1. Psychic Attack

By far the most common and most revered terminology in modernity. Psychic attack is a term made famous by the great initiate Dion Fortune. The idea behind her theory came when she suffered a significant amount of mental anguish and physical illness at the hands of her boss. Details of the exact incident can be found in Fortune’s “Psychic Self Defence”.  Since the emergence of this term, it has become somewhat of an obsession among the unwise. New Age people often run expensive workshops in how to defend against psychic attack, I personally found a flier saying, “you are probably under psychic attack right now!” What an abomination! I felt this to be a good place to begin since it does not always fall under the term of “Black Magic” since there are some cases in which the attack is performed without the knowledge of either party. The basic theory behind it is that a person who harbours a great level of resentment or any negative emotion can broadcast this and project it in the form of harmful energy. This harmful energy can attach to the person, draining them of specific faculties (mental, physical, emotional, etc.) or it can manifest itself physically in the form of an actual illness (it is believed that the leukemia that ended Fortune’s life was due to a psychic attack she received during the Magical War.) Generally, a person who has received little to no training will attack in the earlier form, and the victim may go years without noticing these effects. The stronger the attacker is, the more powerful the drain on the victim’s vital energies, and Dion Fortune herself was bedridden for a great span of time, until an adept came and set her free. The most common users of this style of attack are either normal people, who do not understand that their emotions reach beyond their own mind, or New Agers, who have no other method of righting the wrongs done to them than to send bad feelings towards someone. Psychic attack can, of course, be used by more proficient magicians, in which case it will manifest itself in far more dangerous forms.

2. Witchcraft
The title itself will have sparked disgust or amazement in the Wiccan community. I use Witchcraft here because there is not a particularly better term for it. Witchcraft has been used for centuries to define a system of Magical Assault through the use of curses and hexes etc. It is under this definition that I make use of the term Witchcraft. Let me state, for the record, that I hold nothing against Wiccans or Witches, and was a Wiccan in my earlier days. I still hold full respect for Wiccans and the arts of Magic and Healing they practice. With that out of the way, let us return to the original topic. Witchcraft is a low-level form of Black Magic, working through the use of various physical mediums to direct energy. The use of chants and mantras to build up energy towards a desired purpose has become a very infamous aspect of magic in all forms. These chants can build power towards any intent, and Black Magic is but a rhyme away. The use of various tools, incenses etc. also adds to the overall efficiency of the magic. Since popular culture has caused a surge in the number of people who use low-form magic, most people have either been to propagator or recipient of a random Dark Spell at some point in their life. These things operate in various fashions and many times are utilised by angry ex-lovers in order to cause harm, and they rarely get anywhere. However, in the hand of a long-time practitioner, the effects can be very real and can range from sleepless nights to boils on the skin.

3. Philtres

This particular form is rare in modern circulation, but I feel it deserves a mention in this broader sweeping view of Black Magic. Black Magicians were often famed for their various concoctions, ranging from potions to change appearance, to poisons to kill the enemy. Of these, the latter were the most common, and a great number of grimoires have various listings for the creation of elixirs of life that contain wood chips and arsenic. The main reason I have placed this here is more to advise students against the production of any ancient “remedies” as they may be life-endangering either through the malice of the author, or through pure folly of ignorance.

4. Astral Attack

It is not my intention to detail the methods of Astral Projection, as this can be found through a number of resources on this website. What is evident is that people sometimes possess the skills to move into their Astral body and to work harm upon other people. The basic idea behind this is that they will move into the etheric realms, and attack an unguarded person’s aura or etheric fields. By doing this, the person can cause various symptoms in the victims mental and physical energy levels. As a result of this interference, the person can suffer chronic fatigue or immune system difficulties. The reason Astral Attack is more dangerous is that it tears in etheric fields can be harder to detect and repair than a simple trace of anger left by psychic attack.

5. Prayer
I had my reservations about writing this part, but through my experience Prayer has been one of the most potent forms of assault I have received. Obviously there is nothing wrong with a prayer for world peace, or for a sick friend to receive healing. The danger comes from religious zealots who will not see past their own dogma. I have had complications with members of at least 2 Christian churches who, after inadvertently discovering my practices and beliefs, set out to save my soul. The danger lay not in the fact that they were asking God to help me, but that they were trying to impose their faith on me. They did not care whether I was happy or not, only that I be saved because I was playing servant to the devil (oh irony!). Most people would like to believe prayers reach God, and they do, but it is not as clear cut as this. A prayer is similar to Witchcraft in that it is the announcement of a desire. The prayers become a subject of intense focus, and can lead to terrible results. For a very personal example I provide the following. One of the people who I have spoken of belonged to a Baptist church and was a heavy believer that everything was the work of God or Satan. She had a dream that I was involved in a car accident, and she approached me with concern, telling me she was praying for me to be saved from the accident. Within the week I was waiting at a roundabout when I had a complete wavering of focus and drove straight in to the path of an oncoming car. By the grace of my own protective energies the car stopped about a meter short of colliding directly with my seat, and I drove off only emotionally shaken. The issue with prayer is that people do not pay attention to what they are actually praying for. Often people are taught that you should pray for whatever you want. This is all well and good for you, but what if you obtain that $500 dollars by someone accidentally losing his or her wallet on the street. I have targeted Christians in particular only because my personal experience has been based largely in that field, but know that this applies to people of all religions, faiths and values. Everyone who puts an intention out into the universe has a chance of having that result be actualised, but the New Age adage is that you never get it the way you expect. If this happens, it is because your prayer was not specific or you were not strong enough to send the appropriate desire.

6. Necromancy
Here we come to a very famous and misunderstood term in the field of Magic. Necromancy does indeed deal with the dead, but in what respect? Jesus Christ resurrected many people, but one would hardly call him a malevolent sorcerer. Resurrection is a very unusual concept in Magic and is often regarded as impossible. I am not writing to debate the validity of resurrection, more to talk about the other form of dealing with death. Necromancy is the use of deceased spirits to fulfil a specific work. Many times, necromancers combine their practices with the use of philtres spoken of in part 3. Necromancy is not overly common these days, and necromancers are more perverters of the sacred arts. They do not particularly employ the dead for tasks pertaining to harming another, though in theory I suppose it would be possible in a similar fashion to the use of demons and Elementals manipulated by a sorcerer.


7. Elemental Magic
This is the most fascinating appeal of magic, the control over the elements themselves. This section needs little explaining, as it is fairly obvious. A proficient Black Magician can manipulate the elements to bear down harm upon those who wrong him, conjuring storms of hail and thunder, and drawing forth wild tempests filled with his own hatred.

8. Sorcery & Demonic Evocation
I have separated this into two different parts, Sorcery and Demonic Evocation. The reason I feel that these two are one and the same is that they are the methods most commonly employed by proper Black Magicians. Sorcery is the use of various formulae to elicit a dark effect. I place Sorcery at the highest point because it is the ultimate achievement of the Black Magician. The difference between the Black and the True Magician becomes somewhat vague at the beginning. Initiates of both paths will master all the above methods, and will have total control over the elements and various powers of mind, body and spirit. At this level, the specific acts of Sorcerers and Magicians are impossible to explain. Feats demonstrated by both are sometimes so fantastic that many would regard them as pure fiction. Methods employed can come from any number of those mentioned in the previous sections, and many more.

Demonic Evocation is somewhat simpler to define. It is the use of various summoning methods to bring forth a spirit and to assign to that being a specific task. Various Grimoires exist with a vast number of sigils and methods used to bring these beings into servitude. Once they have been conquered, the Sorcerer can manipulate them for his intents, and there exist a large amount of spirits that are solely used to afflict the Sorcerer’s enemies.

These two portions are generally seen as the pinnacle of Black Magic and it is rare that a Black Magician need look further than this for the power to do whatever he wills upon the world.

Conclusion
To conclude this essay some points must be made clear. No Initiate who pursues Black Magic will attain the same glory that a true Magician will in their life. People may throw the example of Aleister Crowley around, but let it be known that he was not as purely evil as publication has said he was. The man did work in Sorcery, that is without question, but it is written in his own journals that, towards the end years of his life, he lost a great deal of his magical powers. Did he lose proficiency? No. These were taken from him because they were perverted powers. Crowley was most fortunate in that he attained a great deal of power in his life, but it is because he was so driven by the pursuit of power that he ended up losing it. Look towards the other Adepts such as Bardon, Blavatsky and Fortune, all people who never ventured to manipulate the dark arts for anything more than understanding. It was these people who retained their great powers till the end of their lives, and tales of Blavatsky’s skills are well known and can be read of in many works of literature.

What is my aim in telling you this? Simple. The Dark Arts are a fascinating thing, they seem to possess that part of our practice that we are missing. “How can you learn to heal if you do not know how to harm?” some will say. To them my reply is that a person who embarks on learning to harm before learning to heal will eventually injure himself, and will not know how to undo that which he has wreaked. Everyone should master the beneficial arts before even considering pursuing the destructive aspects. Even in saying this, I feel erroneous, for I believe that Black Magic holds a very small portion of wisdom in its hand, and a true Magician would only bother pursuing it because it is of the utmost necessity that he knows how to defend himself with a good offence.

As with Prophecy’s articles, this article has delved into a normally taboo subject. There is a danger for authors who write anything on Black Magic, for they run the risk of entrancing the masses.  It is important that people know what is out there, but that they do not delve into mania about it. Just because you may now know that people can come and attack you Astrally while you sleep, does not mean that it will ever happen to you. Prophecy has ventured into this explanation many times before and I will reiterate the point that around 99% of people who claim they are under attack are their own assailant. Anyone who believes they are the subject of an assault must be certain to look into all other aspects and possibilities. To take instantly the hypothesis that it is a malevolent sorcerer attacking you because you called someone a loser last week is foolhardy.

This has been a work designed to aid that unfortunate 1% of people who suffer from an actual attack. Again I ask you to review Prophecy’s articles on Occult Warfare. Prophecy has given examples of indicators of Warfare, and defences that can be utilised against them. This articles only purpose is to aid in the diagnosis of the form of attack. Reversing Magical Warfare is similar to Medicine used to cure disease. You can give someone 20 pills and 10 types of therapy for different things and hope it works out, but it would be far better to diagnose the complication, and THEN provide the necessary treatment. On the whole I hope this has provided a useful and interesting read. Your comments are greatly appreciated.

Namaste

June 18, 2007, 12:59:58 PM
Reply #1

Wonderland

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I don't know if there is something here on Veritas which already deals with exactly what the RHP (right hand path) and LHP (left hand path) are (I think there is a discussion board on this somewhere).  I look at it more from the standpoint of male and female.  While there are some traits that tend to be more masculine than feminine and vice versa, no one trait is purely "male" or "female".

As far as raising the dead for magical purposes, I offer this for consideration "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:  but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."  Let ye who has an ear, hear what the Spirit is saying.  There is one who opens doors which no one can shut and shuts doors which no one can open.  If you try to raise a dead spirit which has been "shut", your spell will not work properly.
Yeeesh!  Apparently I forgot the signature changes on all posts....AND until you change it again...oh well enough then...sorry 'bout that

June 18, 2007, 06:21:08 PM
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IsApOs

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Enchia, without going into detail of this subject, which almost always leads to a conflict of opnion, I will explain the fundamental limitations of followers of the Left Hand Path. They cannot move past a certain threshold in their spiritual growth, and move into the same spheres that a RHP may. This is because the sphere, Tiphareth, is the sphere of self-sacrifice, upon which you offer up your Nephesh. A LHP practitioner is not capable of doing so, it is that simple. It is a holy procedure governed by angelic hosts, which will not heed the call of one who does not follow the path of light.

For those who disagree with me I turn you towards the most infamous and misunderstood of all initiates, Alesiter Crowley. Whilst Crowley was considered far more a monstrosity of a human being than he actually was, he was not a particularly good person. His goals were selfish and his endeavours often involved conflict, the most famous of which being his turning against McGregor-Mathers, the very man who had helped him in such great ways for many years. Crowley did this to many people, discarding them when they were no longer useful to him, and he earned the spite of many in his constant quest for power.  No man can doubt that Aleister Crowley achieved such proficiency in the arts that he was nearly unmatched, but his evolution would have taken him no further than Yesod. Because of this, towards the end of Crowleys life, he suffered a significant loss in his powers, and adepts such as Bardon have warned that the use of magic for malicious reasons will result in this.

Understand that I do not believe wisdom and power to be the fundamental precepts of what constitutes a great magician, there are far more characteristics than that. A LHP practitioner can attain the same power as a RHP for some time, but eventually no Black Magic can conquer a true Adept.The simplicity of it is that no LHP reaches enlightenment, which one would assume constitues a certain level of wisdom and power. I do not wish to get into an argument about these two paths and their benefits and flaws, suffice it to say there is only evidence that RHP followers have achieved enlightenment, not one case of a Black Magician attaining this level of purity has been documented.

Namaste

June 18, 2007, 08:24:26 PM
Reply #3

Oriens Lvx Lucis

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I am going to explain the concept of what an "Adept" is in magical terms here (no, not just from the Hermetic perspective), as it will serve to support IsApOs's statements regarding the LHP in regards to spirituality and wisdom.

An Adept is an individual who has, through gradual control over himself and slowly refining his own being through a certain religious/magical/mystical set of spiritual guidelines (referring to them as rules does not always do them justice, they do not always limit), attained a level of spiritual enlightenment.  As the term Adept does not, as is popular belief, refer to power at all, but spiritual development, an individual on the LHP can never become an Adept.  However, if a person is truly on what is referred to as the LHP, this fact shouldn't matter to them at all (for example, the "spiritual satanism" of Anton LaVey is not truly LHP, also contrary to popular belief, as an institution, such as organizations like the Brotherhood of the Thule Order were).  Thus, the only way a LHP practitioner should be insulted at never being able to become an Adept in their present activities is if they do not understand what an Adept is.  Many connotations suppose it to be a rank of pure power, but this is actually just a bi-product of the spiritual alchemy.  Adepts are usually phenomenally powerful, and usually also have as a material prerequisite complete mastery over their own life and the physical plane, so that their will is literally law on Earth.  But again, this is not the main definition, a spiritual rank, not one of power, is the definition.  This is why true Adepts always surrender their will to whatever God they believe in once they achieve Adepthood.

Take that as you will.

Namaste

June 18, 2007, 09:14:34 PM
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IsApOs

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A much appreciated contribution Oriens, I was struggling with the words to express what Adeptship is. Thank you for this very impressive explanation.

Namaste

June 19, 2007, 12:42:35 AM
Reply #5

Watchtower

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As a left-hand-path magician, I would like to point out that the most important aspect of the left-hand-path, at least as I have always viewed it, is individuality, freedom, and choice.  It's not really about being selfish, it's about ruling yourself rather than being ruled by an outside force (such as established organized belief systems, etc).  Left-hand-path magicians are perfectly capable of self-sacrifice, the point is that you make your own decisions for your own reasons in every circumstance.  There are of course plenty of left-hand-path magicians that are selfish and always pursue purely selfish ends, but that is their individual choice, not all of us are like that.  I really think there is a serious problem with trying to make sweeping generalizations about the LHP, considering its nature. 

However, this may just be a conflict of terminology.  I won't be so bold as to try to dictate what is "truly" LHP and what is not, I can only in good conscience present what I have always seen it to be, and say that I am not the first nor only person to view it as such.

As far as LHPers and spirituality are concerned, I've always seen spirituality to be an intensely personal issue (not surprising, right?), not something to be universally dictated by some arbitrary criteria, but hey, who am I to say, right?  I am a LHP magician who focuses on self-betterment according to my own criteria of what constitutes "betterment," and I do in fact have a spiritual philosophy.  I find it unfair and inaccurate to say that LHPers cannot achieve spiritual growth (though many truly do not have an interest in it whatsoever, no matter how you define it), but again, this may be a terminology issue. 

As far as combat goes, I don't really think whether one is LHP or RHP plays a significant role.  In my opinion, the victor will generally be the one who has greater skill and experience in magical warfare.  But, you have your experiences, I have mine, and we can agree to disagree.

As a last point, I'd just like to say that I believe a person is capable of refining and gaining control over himself and achieving an equivalent of "Adepthood" (I say equivalent because I believe that there are not only many paths to the top of the mountain, but also many different places upon the top.  These places are not the same as one another, but they all rest atop the peak) purely on his own, without devoting himself to any external set of religious/magical/mystical/spiritual guidelines, nor surrendering his will to any entity.  Some of us do not wish to be guided by angels or gods, or to have labels  and prejudices assigned to our paths.  Doing it this way may be the more hazardous route, but some of us prefer it that way, despite the hazards.  To each his own.

Please keep in mind that I did not post this looking for an argument or debate of any kind.  I simply wanted to express my views about the Left Hand Path.  I can only hope that we will meet atop the peak and embrace each other in mutual brotherhood and respect.

-Watchtower

"For no matter how holy works may be, they do not make us holy because we do them, but in so far as we within ourselves are as we should be, we make holy all that we do, whether it be eating, or sleeping, or working, or what it may."

-Eckhart von Hochheim

June 19, 2007, 01:06:35 AM
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IsApOs

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A very well presented point Watchtower. As you have said there is a terminology difference here. Left Hand Path to most of us dictates a Black Magician, and that is the way it was presented in the article. Your interpretation of the LHP is quite interesting and I shall be certain to modify my statements in future cases to avoid drawing this similiarity.

Namaste
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 01:10:17 AM by IsApOs »

June 19, 2007, 02:07:50 AM
Reply #7

Enchia

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I totally agree with watchtower. I truly believe that the LHP is far more then just being selfish just as the RHP is far more then just preaching love. I think it has a lot to do with stereotyping about the "other" path. The right hand path has is stereotypes about the Left hand path but the Left hand path also has the about the right hand path.

I think some of the RHP followers see the LHP as truly evil and selfish while some of the LHP see the RHP as softies and ignorant. I admit to have had the same thoughts about the RHP in the beginning of my study. But now I know better then that. After I did some study about discrimination and stereotyping I did some deep thinking about the subject and found out that no matter what kind of group a person belongs to, I should judge them on who they are and what they do and not where they belong to. People differ greatly even in specific groups but it is a personal philosophy.

June 24, 2007, 11:46:11 PM
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Veos

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    I don't intend to start a heated debate, but Watchtower and Enchia, it seems there is a slight misunderstanding about what the so-called "left-handed path" is, seeing as how what Watchtower has described as the Left Hand Path is quite assuredly not the Left Handed Path, or at least not what it has traditionally always been ascribed to.  In fact Watchtower, what you have described seems completely "right handed" with not an ounce of "left hand" in it.  Perhaps some of the misunderstanding of what the Left Handed Path is, is due to a misunderstanding of all that the Right Handed Path encompasses?  the term "Left Handed Path" has always meant Black Magick, as any authorities in magick (both left and right) do attest throughout History in everything from the ancient Grimoires to modern day Occult books.  Some of the confusion seems to be exactly what the term "sorcery" is, what the nature of the "Right Handed Path" is and its relationship to religion, and what the nature of the Left Handed Path is, and what exactly it entails.  Perhaps the largest problem is trying to classify magick into "right" and "left" sides, which is a little too Holywood, with so-called black and white magick.  'Tis the magician and not the magick that matters.  Even Voodoo, considered as one of the most degraded forms of Black magick, can be used to help another. 

    Now, seeing as how I have a higher oppinion of a rock than I do a black Magician (at least a rock is usefull), I'll refrain from going on a tangent about black magick.  In the future, perhaps I and a few others can get together to precisely define the differences in the so-called seperate paths, in a manner that causes the minimal amount of misunderstanding, and written in an easily comprehensible manner so that we can post it as an article here on Veritas for constant reference.

    ~Veos   
Soham Sivoham Aham Brahma Asmi Mahavakya
Suddha satchitananda purna parabrahma
Chidananda Rupa Sivoham Sivoham

June 25, 2007, 10:46:23 PM
Reply #9

Watchtower

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Define your terms however you please. 

And no, the term "Left-Hand-Path" does not universally mean "black magic."  The term itself is from Hindu Tantra, though throughout history the idea of "left" has always had negative connotations.  Dakshinachara- "Right Hand Path."  Vamachara- "Left Hand Path."  In tantra, both were considered to be acceptable paths to enlightenment, though Vamachara was considered quicker and more dangerous.  Blavatsky brought the term to the west, and used it to refer to what she considered "immoral" religions.  Nowadays, there are a number of interpretations for the term, so it's hard to say which is really "correct," unless you want to strictly follow the Tantric definition, since technically they came up with it first.

Like I said, I won't be so bold as to try and dictate what is "truly" LHP and what isn't, since there are so many interpretations around.  If you want to label your own as the "true" meaning, go ahead.  I just gave my own interpretation and an explanation.    Take it or leave it, just be aware that when I say "Left Hand Path," my previous post is what I mean, so we can avoid misunderstandings from terminology issues in the future.

Edit: Surprisingly enough, wikipedia's entry on Left Hand Path is not too bad, it matches the other sources I've read on the history of the term.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 10:48:15 PM by Watchtower »
"For no matter how holy works may be, they do not make us holy because we do them, but in so far as we within ourselves are as we should be, we make holy all that we do, whether it be eating, or sleeping, or working, or what it may."

-Eckhart von Hochheim

June 25, 2007, 11:50:30 PM
Reply #10

Steve

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I know I argued with you in the chatroom about the definition of black magic and all, but regardless of all that I suggest you pick a better story for your example of prayer since in that example the lady was praying for your safety, which doesn't seem very black magicesque by your definition since you also seemed to care about your own safety.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

June 26, 2007, 12:45:27 AM
Reply #11

IsApOs

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I've been waiting for this from you Steve. The fact of the matter is that by focusing her attention so much on the accident, she was adding force to it. The article has expressed that people are not careful enough with their prayers in what thing they are focusing on. A misdirected prayer is identical in nature to a misdirected spell.  The entire point of this article is that people rarely understand what condequences their actions can have. I had several more examples but they were far too personal to be posted in an online forum. The article will not be changed.

Namaste

June 26, 2007, 01:15:36 AM
Reply #12

Steve

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Yes, but you said she said she was praying that you would be unhurt. Also not paying attention to a warning does not mean the warning will go away; if I ignore the "hot" indicator on my stove, that doesn't mean I'll be okay if I place my hand on the element.

She may have been adding energy to the possibility of the event, but that explanation is not suitable enough as it has been proven in scientific experiments that dozens of people simply praying for a hospital patients (people with various cancers, people who undergo surgery, etc) only have at best a marginal increase in benefit to the person being prayed for (marginal increase in the number of people being prayed for being cured of the cancers, coming out okay in the surgeries, having shorter hospital stays, etc). If it were as simple as "speaking to the air and thinking about an event make it more likely to happen" then there would be a much greater effect than marginal.

~Steve
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 01:19:56 AM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

June 26, 2007, 01:36:55 AM
Reply #13

IsApOs

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So what you are saying is that a person focusing intent and energy on something does nothing...ironic seeing such a statement in a metaphysics forum. Also, there is no scientifically viable experiment that can be done to understand the value of prayer. Since prayer is such a personal thing, much fuelled by emotion, simply saying "Group A will pray for patient A, Group B will pray for patient B" is a ridicule of science.

Namaste

June 26, 2007, 08:34:57 AM
Reply #14

Steve

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Well, a study of 1800 patients undergoing this specific type pf surgery disagrees with the idea that "focused intent and energy" alone will have a strong effect. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?ex=1301461200&en=4acf338be4900000&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Conclusions: Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529308 (unfortunately it seems you have to sign up for all of the medical websites that I've found so far which have the full article, so the only thing I can get for you is the abstract. I've seen some place which has the full numbers and whatnot of the article, but I can't find it today) Notice how prayer for those who did not know they were being prayed for resulted in an equivalent ratio for those who did not know that they were not being prayed for, and it was only those who were aware of being prayed for who had greater complications. Thus it is possible that knowing you are being prayed for causes your own mind to modify the situation, which can be explained through non-metaphysical understandings of "self-fulfilling prophecies", rather than the prayer itself.

Also, I acknowledge that a person with a strong mind can cause effects by focusing intent and energy on something, but there is a little more to gaining effective results than that; namely being able to take those intents and energies and properly apply them to the universe, which most people can't do and which simply talking to the air will never do.

But if you intended to show the idea that the woman's prayer for you was adding fuel to the incident rather than adding fuel to your safety, then you'll want to reword that portion so that such a point is clearer.

~Steve
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 08:37:18 AM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?